Shroob Downgrade

[Agnaa]

Shroob's second key is 4-A for KO'ing the Mario Bros, despite this feat occurring in the first hour of the game. From what I know this goes wildly against our standards (we shouldn't scale early-game enemies to Mario/Luigi's best feats for hurting them), so they should be downgraded to their next-best feat.

Earlier in the page's history that key was 7-B, but no appropriate feat was linked or described. If we don't know what to put it at the key should probably be removed.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, the key should be removed. I recall it being talked about a long time ago, and it's best to just call the feat PIS.

 

[Cyberblader90]

this was mentioned on discord

The scaling comes from a charged blast that comes from their UFO

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's still an attack from a fodder enemy; and I do not see reason for common UFO's to be stronger than various boss characters. Furthermore, I also realize there is no calculation for the City Block level durability; I know Goombas and Koopa Troopas were going to scale form some 8-C calculations, so they could scale from those when done.

 

[Armorchompy]

The UFOs are used by the final boss to attack M&L in a couple of her attacks IIRC.

 

[Agnaa]

The UFOs are used by the final boss to attack M&L in a couple of her attacks IIRC.

They're also in battles in Thwomp Caverns. They appear periodically throughout the game.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, I just thought that'd be fair to mention, they aren't just early game enemies.

 

[Agnaa]

Oh, oops I misread the wiki page. They also appear in another relatively late-game boss fight.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Oh yeah, the UFO's do have a couple note worthy AP/Hax stuff. They also empowered Yoob to be super giant and later ate the cast. And by lore, they're empowered by energy that comes from Toads known as "Vim". And they do have potent laser beams in the final boss, but I also recall the UFO's are consistently portrayed as glass cannons. There are some boss fights where the bosses throw UFO's at you, and they explode in one hit in the process.

I suppose I'm more neutral on the AP scaling, but I believe I still support a downgrade for UFO durability though.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I thought Mario wasn’t a “shonen” who gets stronger over time tho?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

He's not Shounen yes, and there are times where he gets stronger, but it's all over the place and inconsistent. He's more Superman like yes.

 

[Armorchompy]

that's a comparison i didn't expect i'd read today

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Seems fine

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Dino_Ranger_Black @The_real_cal_howard @GyroNutz @Starter_Pack

Do any of you agree and/or have other thoughts?

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

I have to say that I agree as well.

 

[GyroNutz]

I suppose I'm more neutral on the AP scaling, but I believe I still support a downgrade for UFO durability though.

Generally this. It's a plot point that the Mario Bros get KO'd by the shroob UFO's laser, and their charged laser appears again during the Elder Shrooboid fight as an insta-loss. Maybe specify that their 4-A attacks are only their charged shot.

 

[Armorchompy]

I think ap being kepts makes sense, it's not a gameplay thing but a scripted event in all occasions so gameplay mechanic it can't be

 

[Agnaa]

Wait, so, in the eyes of you two, scaling to the brothers is always allowed when it's a canonically-acknowledged event and not something that can be avoided with optimal gameplay?

 

[Armorchompy]

If there's no anti-feats, yeah.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

While I am one of the main people who are basically going to elaborate why at least 90% of firearms should exclusively scale from their own destruction values and or ballistic kinetic energy yields; I also did say Supernaturally amped weapons can be exceptions if they have consistent showings to be scaled from the characters they usually strike. The lasers are powered by Vim which comes from Toads and the fully charged shots appear to be a OHK on everything it's ever been used on. They do not appear to have massive AoE, but that could be a precision laser shot.

But basically, I agree 100% about downgrading durability and regular showings, but I'm okay with fully charged shots scaling. But as I said, I'm neutral on that. And just because it isn't game mechanics per say, it can still be PIS even if it's a scripted event.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm pretty sure the only time we see non-charged shots from them, all they do is make holes in the castle when fired in bulk (so probably around 9-B to 9-A) or take out other Shroob UFOs. According to the wiki page they also fire bullet bills and fireworks in certain fights. And from my reading of it, it doesn't sound like Vim only powers their ultra charged insta-game over shots.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Charged shots should probably be 4-A, with the rest of the UFO stuff just scaling to other fodder in Mario Bros

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[GyroNutz]

Couple other things:

The shroob UFOs are capable of turning Toads into shroob mushrooms as shown here. Should be Transmutation.

Shroobs themselves are rated as having 9-B to 8-B durability, but the feat listed for 8-B durability seems like guesswork. In my opinion, that should be removed.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.