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Shouldn't we increase Player's tier?

Retelence

Retelence

32
0
In my opinion the Player should stand over the whole Undertale universe. But for now it's even weaker than Asriel most powerful form. Of course, if we count only Player's in-game feats, that's true, because they are also Frisk's and Chara's feats. But all of this is nowhere near the real potential of Player. Just think of it: it can delete the game. It can cheat the game. It can mess up with the game almost any way it wants. And no one else from Undertale will ever be able to stop it. And it exists beyond any timeline and the Undertale reality itself, so no matter how powerful will be attack, Player will never be hurt. So I think Player deserves more than just 2-B.

P.S. I'm well aware of this article.
 
Messing with the game and other stuff probably isn't canon. Anything that can delete Chara's influence for example most likely doesn't count. So I'm rather heistent to upgrading the Player. I mean High 2-A sounds wanked so what do you propose for a tier?
 
Chara and Frisk can both override the player's control at their full power, and Chara technically feeds off the player's power, so if we upgrade them we end up with a bad case of circular scaling (Chara feeds off player, Omega Flowey>Chara, Asriel>Omega Flowey, The Player isn't threatened by Asriel).

Maybe something like "possibly at least 2-A (full power Asriel was never even a threat to them)" could work, though I'm not sure.
 
I don't think Chara is exactly equal to the Player. Just they feed off a bit but not fully.

I guess possibly at least 2-A could fit. It's not like Asriel targeted the player anyway but still.
 
Now that I think about it, Chara can survive the true reset, so even though the circular scaling I mentioned earlier was wrong, there would still be circular scaling. :/
 
Chara's stuff is more like conceptual existence than sheer dura. Even then, True Reset is more or less equal to the Game busting feat Chara did, so it's normal for Chara to survive it (Asriel was back to his base form by the time the reset is done)
 
I'm just saying that if true reset is The Player's ultimate move and The Player is strong enough that Asriel isn't a threat to them, and Chara's concept is unaffected by it it could result in circular scaling. I guess that could fall under AP being different from range, or something like that, and the Player having the AP, to kill Chara, but not the range to affect the entirety of his being?
 
Or the player lacks potent Conceptual Manipulation to do so. As I said, Chara most likely survive everything via Conceptual Existence.
 
Well if you destroy a multiverse it would logically affect the concepts within it regardless of concept manipulation, unless the concept also existed outside of the scope of said multiverse. So it seems more likely that it's because Chara's concept exists beyond the scope of what The Player can effect.
 
It's pretty obvious to me that Chara exist outside the scope of the Multiverse. If we take "Game" as a Multiverse, Chara destroys it, still exists, and plans to go destroy more of them.
 
Yeah, that's part of what I'm saying, even if the Player has AP of a level that Asriel was never a threat to him, he still doesn't have the range to effect beyond the scope of the UT multiverse, but Chara does, so despite Chara being weaker than them, they still can't kill Chara. I just really suck at explaining things.
 
Well that could also just be The Player's limited interaction with the UT world but that leads to the same conclusion anyway.
 
Oh yeah, whoops, I completely overlooked that.

Well, anyway we now have at least two reasons why the circular scaling I brought up wouldn't be an issue. So should we have an admin look at this or something?
 
What about this:

Player within the game (2-B) l Player outside the game (At least 2-A, above full power asriel)

Chara can take over the player within the game but the player outside the game can delete Chara from appearing in the post genocide pacist run if they delete the files (also above full power Asriel due to easily surviving his AP)
 
The player has been rendered powerless many times by much weaker entities than Asriel. I'm not convinced. (Also we can only rank the player from in the game. "Feats" from outside the game counts as reality-fiction interaction which is considered fallacious).
 
@TMR There is Frisk and The Player, beware. No one directly interacted with the Player, only destroyed the Game or killed its avatars (AKA Frisk).
 
If we can consider internal hacking and modding, then the player is technically High 1-A in the UTverse.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
@TMR There is Frisk and The Player, beware. No one directly interacted with the Player, only destroyed the Game or killed its avatars (AKA Frisk).
Click to expand...
Is this true though? Chara takes the Player's "soul", the player who is unable to recreate the World due to Chara's presence.
 
The Player was unable to recreate the world in the first place. Much like how we can't just fix a broken game, the Player can't just re-create the world. And the SOUL thing was done with The Player's consent (Chara couldn't take it by force)
 
The Player is hard to scale because, as the actual player of the game made into a character in the story, they exist outside of the world, but that does mean their influence is limited. They are only safe from True Resets because their reality is not being affected, and Chara could not simply take their SOUL. However, as Saikou pointed out, the Player could not recreate the world, while Chara could, so this is not necessarily because the Player was more powerful than Chara, but because the Player, being separate from the world, needed to be convinced to voluntarily hand over their SOUL.
 
Oh hey, since the player exists completely outside of the existence/multiverse of the games, would that be considered omnilock, or something along those lines?
 
No. They're just outside the game's space-time, not "all".

From what's been said, it raises the question why their durability is so multiverse level, considering they're not actually tanking the game's destruction as they exist outside the world.

Though this can be explained by powerscaling to Chara who's a part of them anyway.
 
I know this thread is old, but shouldn't the player be 2-A? The True Reset resets everything, including beings like Asriel, and even if Asriel was already Flowey before we can do the True Reset, he is still Omnipresent, meaning he was still there right before The Player can do the True Reset
 
Asriel wasn't a thing anymore when the player did the reset though, even if he was "Omnipresent" at the time.
 
i'm sorry but saying that Chara is beyond The Player's influence is wrong, Is Chara contained withing the game's files? yes, can The Player effect and/or delete such files? yes. Case closed. Also shouldn't Asriel's resistance to The Players influence be acountable as a feat? since you can go into the games files and enable yourself to damage Asriel in the billions, however Asriel's real health is actually a hex value and if the hex value is changed by even one digit it crashes the game, is this a feat for Asriel? or just The Player messing with the code to the point of breaking the game?. Have you ever heard of 'Undertale corruptions' this is the point of which The Player can manipulate and change the game's files to do whatever they want, The Player can even affect and nullify the Annoying Dog's powers by lowering the Dogcheck value in the game's files, the Annoying Dog being the single most powerful entity in the game and represent's Toby Fox who created Undertale, All in All I agree that the player should be upgraded.
 
But Sans once talk to the player when we try to hack and break the game. When we play it, Sans will appear and tell us to talk with creator to fix the game and say we're cheating. Isn't that a bit proof hacking and modding is actualy canon if our hack and mod is perfect enough to not actualy break the game so Sans can't aware we are cheating?
 
Is the author said is non-canon? We all are know that Undertale somehow 4th breaking constantly. If its part of the game. It is part of game, easter egg or not. and mighty regulator point out that we can only count in game feats which this is one of it but prevented by Sans if its not perfect enough.
 
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