Shion vs Okita Alter (Battle for 2nd Strongest 6-C)

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

killing person who have 2-A AP doesnt warrant you 2-A range.

This depends on said person being either a 4-D Multiversal entity or just a 3-D with 2-A AP and Dura, the latter doesn't warrant you a Multiversal Range unless shown otherwise.

Based on their profile, I think Maou Nobu and Kagetora case is that they can be a threat to Saver who is comparable to Kiara.

 

[John985]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3626446#399

No Nasu concepts follow the usual typing. They all come from the swirl of the root, which is transcendent of reality, but they exit from it and enter The World, but at the same time none of them intersect with all of reality. However, they can also be invented, so they are neither types 1, 2, 3, or 4

 

[GLHF22]

This depends on said person being either a 4-D Multiversal entity or just a 3-D with 2-A AP and Dura, the latter doesn't warrant you a Multiversal Range unless shown otherwise.

Based on their profile, I think Maou Nobu and Kagetora case is that they can be a threat to Saver who is comparable to Kiara.

Isnt Maou Nobu threat to Buddha? Not all Buddha is as strong as saver tho, In Nasuverse Buddha is described as God that govern solar system not multiverses so i don't know how each Buddha comparable to each other while Gods are not Comparable no matter how you see it.

 

[Schnee_One]

Chill out both of you

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Are you ******* serious? concepts that transcends reality is a fking type 2 while nasuverse character so far do not have type 2 concepts manip.

Just cuz a concept transcends reality, does not make it type 2. It does not all into any of the usual kinds, since they also do not intersect with all of reality and can also be invented, as John so kindly pointed out. No Nasu characters have a concept type listed on their profiles since this was already agreed to

 

[GLHF22]

I mean you do need CRT to condclude what type it is.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

It doesn't have a usual type, that's the point. multiple profiles already reflect this by intentionally not having a type listed. This is already accepted. Why do you need a CRT?

 

[GLHF22]

Because you said It okitan NP can kill concepts on 2-B scale, and if it transcends reality and affect multiverses i don't know why its not type 2, but John said its not so your argument about okitan able to kill Shion is not valid.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

It doesn't need to be type 2 for them to transcend reality. John never once contradicted what I said, what are you talking about? Also, I said she can kill concepts on a 2-A scale, not a 2-B scale.

 

[GLHF22]

John sad it cant affect all of reality, means not on 2-A scale, whats wrong with you? It come from Akasha and enter the world means its no longer transcends reality, i don't know why that not qualify for type 3, if you insist it can affect concepts on 2-A scale bring your evidence here.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

He said the concepts don't intersect with all of reality, but they are still transcendent of it. What do you mean? Shiro corrected me on the last thread that even tho they leave Akasha they still exist there as well, although I'm still meh on this. Type 3 concepts interact with all of reality, but Nasu concepts do not, and type 3 concepts still transcend reality. The evidence is on her damn profile, so go ahead and make a CRT if you think she can't. She erased Maxwell's demon. A 2-A abstract conceptual being, hence, a 2-A concept

 

[GLHF22]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3626446#399

No Nasu concepts follow the usual typing. They all come from the swirl of the root, which is transcendent of reality, but they exit from it and enter The World, but at the same time none of them intersect with all of reality. However, they can also be invented, so they are neither types 1, 2, 3, or 4

Isnt all of reality in here means all of universes? Also they exit Akasha hence i assume they not transcends reality anymore, what makes Maxwell demon is 2-A concepts?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

All of Reality here means they intersect with select Worlds, but it is all versions of those worlds that exist within infinite universes. For example, death may only exist within The World of planet earth, but it exists within the infinite versions of that World across the multiverse, in every version. It's not like they leave there totally, since it's not like each person has a unique Origin. We already know multiple people who have the Origin of "Sword", which proves that just cuz it exits Akasha does not mean it has left in its entirety. Maxwell's demon is a 2-A concept since it, as a concept, can threaten 2-A beings such as Saver and Bodhisattva Kiara, thus exists on that scale.

 

[GLHF22]

whats? being a threat for 2-A being doesn't makes your very existence exist on 2-A level

 

[GLHF22]

also I have no idea why Maxwell demom/ Maou Nobu is 2-A, they are threat for Buddha not Saver/Kiara, Buddha is described as God that govern solar-system so I don't think every Buddha is comparable to Saver and Kiara

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Pretty sure every Nasuverse 2-A are like 3-D being with 2-A AP and Dura. None of them are 4-D being if I recall.

Maxwell Demon being a threat to Kiara or Saver doesn't mean his concept is encompasses Multiverse since the latter 2 do not either.

 

[Paul_Frank]

also I have no idea why Maxwell demom/ Maou Nobu is 2-A, they are threat for Buddha not Saver/Kiara, Buddha is described as God that govern solar-system so I don't think every Buddha is comparable to Saver and Kiara

There is A single buddha in fate you're thinking of Bodhisattva, which is what Kiara is

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

A concept that is a threat to 2-As is a 2-A concept, this is a borderline definitional thing, so I'm not sure how you contest this.

My guy, you do know there is only 1 Buddha right? There are multiple Bodhisattva, but there is only one Buddha, the big man himself, shakyamuni. Kiara and Saver are the only Bodhisattva we have seen on screen and both are 2-A. The only other known Bodhisattva is the Future version of Xuangzang, and they have never been observed on screen.

 

[John985]

On Solomon Mats Ars Nova

That is what it means to disappear even from the Throne of Heroes.
To be released from the duty of life, to have completed all the task one is burdened with in this universe.
The messiah is the sole being among the mankind to have attained enlightenment, but the coward had attained and arrived on a "destination" of a different bearing.

 

[Paul_Frank]

@beast

That's 100% wrong, Kama became the universe, including space and time, Tiamat is stated to be 4d physically, BB has her mooncell stuff going on, etc

 

[GLHF22]

@beast

That's 100% wrong, Kama became the universe, including space and time, Tiamat is stated to be 4d physically, BB has her mooncell stuff going on, etc

but not on 2-A scale

 

[GLHF22]

There is A single buddha in fate you're thinking of Bodhisattva, which is what Kiara is

nope, there is many Buddhas

 

[Paul_Frank]

No, there is 1 buddha, even Solomon's mats make this clear

There are multiple Bodhisattva, only one person ever achieved enlightenment, aka became the buddha, Mara tried to stop the Buddha from reaching enlightenment, she didn't try to stop the buddhas, because there is only 1

And I'm not sure what not on a 2-A scale means here, if you mean none of them were omnipresent on a 2-A scale then BB in CCC was, in fact, omnipresent in the mooncell which contains infinite parallel worlds, and Tiamat exists throughout all of time and space

 

[GLHF22]

then What is Bishamonten Nagao? Xuanzang is not Boddishavta she will become Buddha herself, there is also Sun Wukong.

 

[GLHF22]

only BB, the other are not Omnipresent throght Infinite Multiverses, even if they are, this will not Scale to Maxwell Demon.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

We don't really know anything about Sun Wukong within Fate yet. If they ever refer to Xuangzang as a Buddha that is most likely a mistranslation. There are multiple statements making it clear that Saver is the only one who reached full blown enlightenment as a buddha.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

There's one buddha. Denying actual evidence to say that there's more is just willful ignorance

 

[GLHF22]

that's honestly kinda weird, IRL there is many Buddhas even Amaterasu (Dakini-Ten) is Buddha, considering Nasu get his source from IRL I don't know where is the idea of only 1 Buddha exist.

 

[Schnee_One]

He also

Oh IDK

Massively changes it

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

He probably wanted to make Saver special. Still, there are many Boddhistva and Arhat within Fate, who have reached pretty damn close to enlightenment and obtained salvation.

 

[GLHF22]

also no in Nobu scan the words used here is õ╗Å and and Xuanzang is stated will become õ╗Å in the future, õ╗Å means Buddha, so there is no mistranslation

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Cool, then it's a misnomer playing off of her epithet. She is known as "The Buddha of Sandlewood Merit" irl due to her actually being a Buddha in irl lore, but due to the multiple explicit statements of there only being 1 Buddha she is obviously a Bodhisattva.

 

[GLHF22]

also uh.., can you tell Gin to add scan for Nagao profile? the profile lack scan.

 

[GLHF22]

if there is only 1 Buddha then Nagao should be uknown instead of 2-A

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Ok, first of all, that kanji isn't enough to say Bhudda. þÑ×õ╗Å. This is Bhudda.

Second, it's in Nobunaga's profile, I'll just gonna add the scan to Kagetora later.

 

[GLHF22]

oh isn't þÑ×õ╗Å means Gods and Buddha? I only take õ╗Å because I think þÑ× is only for Gods not Buddha

 

[GLHF22]

i mean the scan for her ascension to Buddhahood so of course that doesn't exist in maou Nobu profile, i want to see whats words used there.

 

[GLHF22]

There's one buddha. Denying actual evidence to say that there's more is just willful ignorance

XD i wonder who is the ignorant here

 

[Zel97]

Getting a bit cancerous,calm down now

 

[GLHF22]

Eh... I thought that was a joke, pardon me then if someone is offended