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Goetia vs Shion (Fight for the second strongest 6-C)

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To reiterate what i said from the other thread:

Goetia can get around the range issue of being able to attack her across multiple universes. AAS wipes out all human possibility, so even tho it is listed as planetary range, it works on a 2-A scale. Also, yes, it can bypass her nonexistent physiology and abstract existence, since he would need to be able to effect the planet in its void state to wipe it out or create a new one, and he creates the world with the concepts he wants, and can reject those he doesn't want.
 
I think the fight result is Inco
Goetia haven't enough range to defeat Shion and Shion has no way to bypass Goetia's immortality
 
But his page says his range is few kilometers and Planetary with Ars Almadel Salomonis, this is not close to Multiversal+ range
 
Lord JJJ said:
But his page says his range is few kilometers and Planetary with Ars Almadel Salomonis, this is not close to Multiversal+ range
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It saying planetary is a bit deceptive, since it is making a new World, but it's on a multiversal scale
 
I guess I should go ahead and find a possible win condition for Shion, to see if this is possibly not a stomp. I think it is pretty evidently in favor of Goetia tho.

I think the only way Shion potentially survives is if she manifests herself in one of the lost belts or rifts in history as those would be technically out of reach for Goetia, and she would basically need to power null the demon God pillars for long enough that they bail from Solomon's body and fire it from imaginary numbers space. If she does that she can potentially stalemate
 
If Shion has no win con it's a stomp. Even if you say that you sound like you don't believe it yourself and the ideal stalemate is far too unlikely. That's all I'm dropping here for now.

And I'm sure I posted here before, but you've been making a lot of Shion threads huh
 
She has the means to stalemate him, or at least the ability to establish herself into any new universe that he makes, since he can't use his only means to take her out if she figures out the lost belt thing. I think it is incredibly unlikely, but it is possible.

Its cuz I keep thinking I have some obvious answer to Shion in the top strongest thread but people seem to disagree, so I move on to another one that people end up disagreeing with in ways I cannot fathom kek. This seems to be the one they finally agree with tho
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
She has the means to stalemate him, or at least the ability to establish herself into any new universe that he makes, since he can't use his only means to take her out if she figures out the lost belt thing. I think it is incredibly unlikely, but it is possible.
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If her best possible outcome is a stalemate, the battle IS a stomp because she CAN'T win

like, hec, Goetia has even EX Clayro to allow him to know the most optimal path to win, so that best case shenario isn't happening ever.
 
The fact that you even think it's incredibly unlikely is already a difficult point that makes it stomp worthy. On the first place that's also chance based on Goetia itself. Not on Shion's actions.

Is Ex Clayo similar to Gilg's Almighty? That further makes this less likely to add in that case.

Ahhh, why be bothered by such a silly title that's never permanent though?
 
Well, Gilgamesh's Clayro NP works differently, with it observing infinite timilines while Goetia's observes all past and all future of a single universe, but for this match is basically the same since Shion can't really do much from outside the timeline
 
Overlord775 said:
If her best possible outcome is a stalemate, the battle IS a stomp because she CAN'T win

like, hec, Goetia has even EX Clayro to allow him to know the most optimal path to win, so that best case shenario isn't happening ever.
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A rule of thumb is that if you bloodlust the losing side and the outcome becomes inconclusive then it's not a stomp.

Pretty sure his clairvoyance doesn't let him account for the rifts and lost belts. It also hasn't shown to work on non-existent beings
 
No, Ipatitus, even if you ****** make her bloodlusted she won't be able to win, because being bloodlused =/= doing everything 100% the way you need to to win

EVEN if you made her bloodlusted and gave her all the info about Goetia's abilities she wouldn't win,because she wouldn't know that the lost belts are a thing and wouldn't spread there, so he would still win

also, this is a neutral setting, not Fate, aka New York city of the real word, so Lost Belts don't even exist here
 
But if you bloodlust her and give her Intel, then Goetia has no way to win either, since she will always be out of his reach of the only thing he has to put her down.


Also, for verse equalization, we assume that things like those exist. We assume the chronological phenomenon exists in Fate matches, and we assume time locks exist in BB matches, therefore we must assume that lost belts and rifts in history exist.
 
Actually no, he could just travel to the lost belt and nuke her there too, he's composite nasuverse magecraft after all, so he has stuff to easily get him there.

also no, verse equalization exists only in case one of the two fighters has abilities dependant on something, Lost Belts aren't usefull for any of Goetia's abilities, so they don't exist here
 
Overlord775 said:
Actually no, he could just travel to the lost belt and nuke her there too, he's composite nasuverse magecraft after all, so he has stuff to easily get him there.
also no, verse equalization exists only in case one of the two fighters has abilities dependant on something, Lost Belts aren't usefull for any of Goetia's abilities, so they don't exist here
Click to expand...
I don't know if he could do that. Chaldea isn't just magecraft. I'm not sure AAS would even work on a lost belt anyway, and besides, she would just move to another one

Actually, it was revealed in the most recent lost belt chapter that Goetia is related to the pruning of parallel universes, and that AAS had an alternate purpose of "burning the tree down" to stop the alien god (or something, I'm not 100% clear on this). If the time tree shenanigans exists then lost belts naturally do as well
 
If Chaldea could do it, somone at the caliber of Geotia should too

also if he's going to burn the whole tree, wouldn't the lost belts be burned too ?

BTW, would hs even be able to reach a lost belt ?

like, she's only omnipresence trought space, not time
 
Chaldea is a system of both magic and science, so it falls outside of Goetia's domain of foundation.

The lost belts aren't part of the tree, I'm pretty sure.

The way the are visualized, they aren't necessarily far from the other universes at anything beyond a 2C distance, but they are separated from the tree.

She can manifest in a lost belt from her time period
 
Anyway, since it wouldn't even a win condiction it doesn't matter, as stalemate options aren't enought to not call a battle a stomp

"A stomp thread is a VS thread where, for all intents and purposes, one of the characters is unreasonably outmatched by their opponent. Whether it is through a difference in statistics, abilities or even (in very rare cases) skill between the two parties, these matches are heavily one-sided and provide little to no challenge or danger for the winning character.

Unlike a match which is decisive in one character's favor, stomp matches very rarely leave any room for debate, with their outcomes coming across as predictable to anyone with even cursory knowledge of the combatants and their abilities."

this definitelly classifies as this, as Shion is "unreasonably outmatched" and there's "very rarely leave any room for debate" that she has only a remote chance to even stalemate
 
I mean, we are debating this right now, so clearly there is room for debate. I'm also sure that if any of the Touhou debaters from the previous threads decided to show up they probably would raise some arguments.

A rule of thumb is that it isn't a stomp if bloodlusting and/or giving Intel suddenly makes it inconclusive. Goetia had a single win condition, and she has one very clear means of making that win condition moot.

Also, I thought it was pretty obvious that the 5 other fate characters I put against Shion pretty conclusively took it in their favor, but it turned out they didn't judging my the 100+ comments on each of them. We have moved past obvious outcomes on these topics
 
Stalemanting is not a ******* VICTORY

if she can only stalemate, this is a stomp, because she needs to be able to win, even if it's a remote possibility

Here her victory is 0%, litterally, not 0.1%, not even 0.0000000000000000000001%, it's 0.00%

is your head made of titanium or something ? this is the basic
 
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