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Shinza banshou discussion thread~Revival~

He only survived the Metsujin Messo because Hajun was too busy to notice him and actively attack with his full force. Yato was only dealing with a fraction of it and he was still only hanging on by a thread.

Muzan let Satanael claim the Throne because he thought he would do a better job.
 
We know that his taikyoku is far below Hajun’s, but he held off metsujin messo for 8000 years, so he scales barely.
I don't know why that would prove anything other than the difference between Taikyoku values not being transcendent.

the depth change is likely infinite, but the practicality of it as in why gods can’t reach the bottom is because of the throne god.
I don't really care about "likely".

the incomprehensible does seem to be transcendence due to his interaction with ryuusui. And yes, he seems to be able to.
Provide context, and also proof as to why he would be able to stack the same transcendence again. Because if the "incomprehensible" thing was referring to singularity then you can't just argue he can stack it as singularity is already something with nature similar to Taikyoku.
 
I don't know why that would prove anything other than the difference between Taikyoku values not being transcendent.


I don't really care about "likely".


Provide context, and also proof as to why he would be able to stack the same transcendence again. Because if the "incomprehensible" thing was referring to singularity then you can't just argue he can stack it as singularity is already something with nature similar to Taikyoku.
You kept talking like everyone is saying the singularity is the one with the depth, it is not the singularity, it is the throne God, and yes in a battle for the throne a difference of one taikyoku is transcendence
 
Why? Morei’s example does seem to give reasoning for the barriers to reach higher tiers.
It is like this, the barriers are most likely referred to has "24 higher dimensional barriers" not '24 dimensional barriers."
So in the end if I want to use morei example I will have to use the rest, and don't want complications
 
Honestly, it's better to use the Paraide Lost stuff as the example of Higher Dimensions, as Paradise Lost has a greater focus on Higher Dimensions, with the Kajirinstuff as supporting evidence.
 
I don't know why that would prove anything other than the difference between Taikyoku values not being transcendent.


I don't really care about "likely".


Provide context, and also proof as to why he would be able to stack the same transcendence again. Because if the "incomprehensible" thing was referring to singularity then you can't just argue he can stack it as singularity is already something with nature similar to Taikyoku.
How? Yato has consistently been portrayed to having the strongest defense, not sure how this contradicts anything.

I was just saying likely due to there only being an implication.

context was that yakou aligned ryuusui’s hierarchy so that she could see his point of view. Unfortunately, she couldn’t understand his existence properly and stuff.

it wasn’t the singularity, I already said that I was just playing with words there. He can stack them as he was doing that in the singularity and so that he can actually interact with creation.
 
You kept talking like everyone is saying the singularity is the one with the depth, it is not the singularity, it is the throne God, and yes in a battle for the throne a difference of one taikyoku is transcendence
That is exactly what they are saying though. Like there are 3 different people saying 3 different things here. You are saying that the difference exists for the throne God, Tarang and Odinson are saying whatever and Everything12 is saying something aligning with the ratings that Shinza had before the downgrades
 
It is like this, the barriers are most likely referred to has "24 higher dimensional barriers" not '24 dimensional barriers."
So in the end if I want to use morei example I will have to use the rest, and don't want complications
Not the 24D ones, which should still qualify, the ones that madara used against morei
 
Tarang and Odinson are saying whatever
You will have to quote what I said. And if I said something which isn't similar to what others are saying then I will educate you on why that's not true. My wording is sometimes hard to catch up because I usually leave out tedious details.
 
How? Yato has consistently been portrayed to having the strongest defense, not sure how this contradicts anything.
Drilling wouldn't have anything to do with defense though.
I was just saying likely due to there only being an implication.
There is no implication in a self contradictory argument.

context was that yakou aligned ryuusui’s hierarchy so that she could see his point of view. Unfortunately, she couldn’t understand his existence properly and stuff.
That could very well just mean that she couldn't understand his existence even after seeing his point of view. Plus it wouldn't align with what you said since it wouldn't be Yakou "making" himself incomprehensible to anyone, moreso him just being incomprehensible by default.

He can stack them as he was doing that in the singularity and so that he can actually interact with creation.
But why? You aren't providing any actual evidence or explanation.
 
You will have to quote what I said. And if I said something which isn't similar to what others are saying then I will educate you on why that's not true. My wording is sometimes hard to catch up because I usually leave out tedious details.
This is an inherently flawed question because Everything12 and Pain aren't saying matching things in the first place, so you can't actually say something similar to what "others" are saying when the "others" themselves aren't consistent. Plus I don't have time to read the previous posts now
 
Drilling wouldn't have anything to do with defense though.

There is no implication in a self contradictory argument.


That could very well just mean that she couldn't understand his existence even after seeing his point of view. Plus it wouldn't align with what you said since it wouldn't be Yakou "making" himself incomprehensible to anyone, moreso him just being incomprehensible by default.


But why? You aren't providing any actual evidence or explanation.
It’s due to the fact that the quality of his taikyoku is high enough to scale to the weaker version of Hajun’s law.

there is, tho…

it’s literally because he has a higher level of taikyoku than her that she can’t understand.

that’s literally what he did in the singularity. I apologize if I’m not putting scans, but I can’t rn, I’ll probably put them later.
 
This is an inherently flawed question because Everything12 and Pain aren't saying matching
Then stop grouping me in. First establish who is saying what and what they disagree with. Then make lists of people who disagree with each other. You cannot just say "odinson said x but others said Y and Z" and not expand on it.
 
That is exactly what they are saying though. Like there are 3 different people saying 3 different things here. You are saying that the difference exists for the throne God, Tarang and Odinson are saying whatever and Everything12 is saying something aligning with the ratings that Shinza had before the downgrades
The only time taikyoku do matter is in a battle for the throne, unless you are fighting hajun then yeah taikyoku matter due to the sheer difference.

But we are actually saying the same thing aside from them wanting 1A singularity.
There is a hierarchy, and a transcendent one at that, a lower God would never reach a higher one due to clashing of laws, you will just keep falling through the layers of the singularity endlessly and never reach the throne room.
And soujiro and shiori could open Cajun singularly due to their nature, they did not clash with hajun head on, but that does not mean hajun does not transcend them, as when they got to the throne they were one shotted by hajun and also frozen and could not move
It is like this, the barriers are most likely referred to has "24 higher dimensional barriers" not '24 dimensional barriers."
So in the end if I want to use morei example I will have to use the rest, and don't want complications
Send me the translation of the morei example
Honestly, it's better to use the Paraide Lost stuff as the example of Higher Dimensions, as Paradise Lost has a greater focus on Higher Dimensions, with the Kajirinstuff as supporting evidence.
This would be a bigger downgrade, unless there are scans that the higher dimensions a we disconnected from the world
 
And we know that gods do hold qualitative superiority to the singularity. Whether or not it’s all expansions or just based on each God’s singularity I’d a different discussion.
 
This is an inherently flawed question because Everything12 and Pain aren't saying matching things in the first place, so you can't actually say something similar to what "others" are saying when the "others" themselves aren't consistent. Plus I don't have time to read the previous posts now
Idg this
 
The only time taikyoku do matter is in a battle for the throne, unless you are fighting hajun then yeah taikyoku matter due to the sheer difference.

But we are actually saying the same thing aside from them wanting 1A singularity.
There is a hierarchy, and a transcendent one at that, a lower God would never reach a higher one due to clashing of laws, you will just keep falling through the layers of the singularity endlessly and never reach the throne room.
And soujiro and shiori could open Cajun singularly due to their nature, they did not clash with hajun head on, but that does not mean hajun does not transcend them, as when they got to the throne they were one shotted by hajun and also frozen and could not move

Send me the translation of the morei example

This would be a bigger downgrade, unless there are scans that the higher dimensions a we disconnected from the world
The morei example is in the downgrade to 1B, but I’ll put it here a bit later.

also, the dimensions can only be accessed by sin users with strong enough souls.
 
And we know that gods do hold qualitative superiority to the singularity. Whether or not it’s all expansions or just based on each God’s singularity I’d a different discussion.
Gods are superior to the singularity that is not backed by another god
 
The morei example is in the downgrade to 1B, but I’ll put it here a bit later.

also, the dimensions can only be accessed by sin users with strong enough souls.
Yes I know it can only be accessed by sins users with strong souls, I am saying this is just one R>F
 
Gods are superior to the singularity that is not backed by another god
I meant that they have qualitative to each other’s singularity at a lowball. For example, Mercurius transcends his own singularity along with all further expansions of it. Now, he could be above all possible expansions of the singularity, but that’s a different discussion
 
It’s due to the fact that the quality of his taikyoku is high enough to scale to the weaker version of Hajun’s law.
Well, whatever.

it’s literally because he has a higher level of taikyoku than her that she can’t understand.
So now it's because of Taikyoku? What happened to "he has the ability to make himself incomprehensible"? At least make consistent arguments.

that’s literally what he did in the singularity. I apologize if I’m not putting scans, but I can’t rn, I’ll probably put them later.
Even going by what you said, he didn't do anything. You said he just brought Ryuusui to his point of view, and she was unable to comprehend his existence. This has nothing to do with having some ability to stack transcendences. After that you changed your stance to "it was because of Taikyoku" for some reason which just clouds your argument more. At this point I am not even sure what you are arguing.


Then stop grouping me in. First establish who is saying what and what they disagree with.
What part of "Tarang and Odinson are saying whatever" did you not understand?

But we are actually saying the same thing aside from them wanting 1A singularity.
And that's where the depth arguments come. So yes, you guys differ on that part and that's what I was addressing in the first place.
 
We have no reason to assume that Higher Dimensions in Paradise Lost hold any less superiority then in Kajiri, in fact based off the context given I'd say Paradise Lost makes it clearer theirs a difference between the two.

病的なまでに血色を欠いた肌。狂気に冒された赤い瞳。そして、竜巻のような瘴気を纏ったその姿……

疑う余地もなく断言できる。あの女は、もはやこの世のものじゃないと。

「あれが偽神――トロメアに現われ、同区画を壊滅に追い込んだ虫の王だ。暴食の原罪を持つ器に巣食い、その内部をアビスと連結させている」

「実体を“あちら側”に置く彼らは、“こちら側”のいかなる法をもってしても打倒できない。最低でも、反逆地獄に匹敵する高次元の力でなければ」

「つまりはそう、彼女のように」
As the Higher Dimensional beings of the Abyss and Sefirot are outside the Laws of the World and can't be affected by anything besides similar Higher Dimensioanl energy.
 
Well, whatever.


So now it's because of Taikyoku? What happened to "he has the ability to make himself incomprehensible"? At least make consistent arguments.


Even going by what you said, he didn't do anything. You said he just brought Ryuusui to his point of view, and she was unable to comprehend his existence. This has nothing to do with having some ability to stack transcendences. After that you changed your stance to "it was because of Taikyoku" for some reason which just clouds your argument more. At this point I am not even sure what you are arguing.



What part of "Tarang and Odinson are saying whatever" did you not understand?


And that's where the depth arguments come. So yes, you guys differ on that part and that's what I was addressing in the first place.
I’m not tho. Go read what I said again. His nature as a transcendent being makes him incomprehensible to normal normal people.

I didn’t say that. I was saying that this stacking ability is because of how he drills through the singularity.

bruh.
 
I’m not tho. Go read what I said again. His nature as a transcendent being makes him incomprehensible to normal normal people.
You literally said it was because of Taikyoku. Wtf. You are being straight up inconsistent.


I didn’t say that. I was saying that this stacking ability is because of how he drills through the singularity.
Why would "How he appears to normal people" have absolutely any connection to "How he dives through the singularity"?
 
You literally said it was because of Taikyoku. Wtf. You are being straight up inconsistent.



Why would "How he appears to normal people" have absolutely any connection to "How he dives through the singularity"?
I was just pointing out that ryuusui already had taikyoku by that time. I apologize for not clarifying that. It’s not talking about taikyoku transcendence.

because he needs to further deepen and strengthen his existence, including the hierarchy he contains.
 
Doesn’t matter, the downgrade shouldn’t happen, but either way they’d still be hyperversal even lowballing
What I am doing is an upgrade and downgrade.
We have no reason to assume that Higher Dimensions in Paradise Lost hold any less superiority then in Kajiri, in fact based off the context given I'd say Paradise Lost makes it clearer theirs a difference between the two.


As the Higher Dimensional beings of the Abyss and Sefirot are outside the Laws of the World and can't be affected by anything besides similar Higher Dimensioanl energy.
Yes why this is true, you will need prove that this is way more than a single R>F if not it is just a single one

Anyway masada himself said he wants to redo PL so I wanted to avoid using it as much as possible.
 
I was just pointing out that ryuusui already had taikyoku by that time. I apologize for not clarifying that. It’s not talking about taikyoku transcendence.
These were your exact words
"it’s literally because he has a higher level of taikyoku than her that she can’t understand."
I have no clue how they could mean anything other than what they straight up mean, but alright.

because he needs to further deepen and strengthen his existence, including the hierarchy he contains.
And how/why does that relate to "making himself incomprehensible in comparison to lower beings"?
 
Anyway if anyone wants 1A, use the transcendence taikyoku has over reality, and the throne and the likes and now that everyone seems to agree madara barriers are not 24 dimensional barrier but something else it is pretty much solid
 
What I am doing is an upgrade and downgrade.

Yes why this is true, you will need prove that this is way more than a single R>F if not it is just a single one

Anyway masada himself said he wants to redo PL so I wanted to avoid using it as much as possible.
Again, the downgrade isn’t even necessary.

wdym? There is a hierarchy of 14D.

I disagree with the last one. I think we can scrap it if Masada retcons paradise lost.
 
These were your exact words
"it’s literally because he has a higher level of taikyoku than her that she can’t understand."
I have no clue how they could mean anything other than what they straight up mean, but alright.


And how/why does that relate to "making himself incomprehensible in comparison to lower beings"?
Yes, because she already has taikyoku. She just can’t properly control it.

he’s incomprehensible due to transcending creation, he increases this hierarchy by going through the singularity. Should be simple enough to understand.
 
he’s incomprehensible due to transcending creation, he increases this hierarchy by going through the singularity. Should be simple enough to understand.
Except his incomprehensibility and transcendence comes from existing in the singularity, which already has nature similar to Taikyoku. While his diving takes place in the singularity itself. You can't argue he is just stacking it on the same scale without evidence.
 
I think we shouldn't ignore Paradise Lost. Not at all, after all we have Masada say he would like to reboot it, but we don't know how or when. This site deals with recons as they come, we shouldn't just ignore a major part of the verse because we are uncertain how the future will change it.
 
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