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Shinza banshou discussion thread~Revival~

Pain_to12 said:
Wait what?

"Yes, you should know. This is the real me. This is who I am. I need no special abilities.

Stopping time? Leading the Shura? Manipulating all the universe and its stars, eternally repeating it over and over?

What is that? What are those? Why are you trying to be so crafty? Is it because you are weak, bored, or perhaps that you wanted to distort a setting to make yourself think you're smart? You'r so narrow-minded and sly.

So dumbfounded are these theoretical concepts, meanings, and phenomena that I can't even speak about them.

What, did you even raise an egg with that kind of stuff?

Compatibility of abilities? Absurd. The dangerous factor of using your powers? What a fool. You are caught up in such things that you can't reach the very depths of the Throne.

Compatability is meaningless when it comes to the order of mass, where magnitudes are so different from each other, and a power that is dangerous to use is simply a defective product that cannot be used.............

Hence, Hajun was born and came to possess Taikyoku.

The strongest and most invincible, through and through. No matter who it was, it was all Metsujin Messo--it was power, purely power!

I wanted the power to wipe away all traces of this unpleasant trash.

Hajun's Heaven was only for me!



This was reizen talking about Hajun btw.

His metsujin messo means total annihilation like literally that, and it just means kill everyone in his path, him suppressing everyone else and someone like yato was due to taikyoku number and craving, if he and yato had the same number of taikyoku he could not have suppressed anyone
Click to expand...
Well, there's also his in game profile, which describes his law as destroying all cravings, which made it special in some sense, so I do think it has to do with Metsujin Messo's nature.
 
Pain_to12 said:
Taikyoku having R>F difference is not really a thing and only relevant in emanation in a fight unless you are hajun with immense taikyoku gap, taikyoku is useless in a fight
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Well, it is quite useful as shown here:


However, there's always a sense of an unknown outcome for Hadou Gods because of the fact that there's the soul count, which can turn the tide of the battle, and obviously the strength of the craving.

Gudou Gods are merely limited into physically hitting something for the law rewriting to happen, so even higher Taikyoku can still lose to lower Taikyoku characters as shown with Morei vs Shiori.
 
Well the issues with the Tenma were more despite their Taikyoku giving them an advantage it was extremely fragile with Reinhard being dead, Yato being weakened and preoccupied, and the area of their Laws being threatened to crumble away under Hajun' Law at any second. Thus the Tenma's had specific situations that the Eastern Expedition exploited so as to make the advantage of higher Taikyoku disappear.
 
Tarang123 said:
Well, it is quite useful as shown here:


However, there's always a sense of an unknown outcome for Hadou Gods because of the fact that there's the soul count, which can turn the tide of the battle, and obviously the strength of the craving.

Gudou Gods are merely limited into physically hitting something for the law rewriting to happen, so even higher Taikyoku can still lose to lower Taikyoku characters as shown with Morei vs Shiori.
Click to expand...
Could you get scans of the parts before and after this to get the full context?
 
Everything12 said:
Well the issues with the Tenma were more despite their Taikyoku giving them an advantage it was extremely fragile with Reinhard being dead, Yato being weakened and preoccupied, and the area of their Laws being threatened to crumble away under Hajun' Law at any second. Thus the Tenma's had specific situations that the Eastern Expedition exploited so as to make the advantage of higher Taikyoku disappear.
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True, but characters like Shiori also had special haxes that made their higher Taikyoku honestly useful, such as Shiori bullshitting her way to victory and weakening Morei with each hit, until finally she was able to launch an attack capable of severely harming her.
 
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Everything12 said:
Personally think we still should keep the Higher Dimensions in addition to this Singularity stuff (an Taikyoku) as we still have that quote that talks about Higher Dimensions being a thing above Lower Dimensions, plus not only does Kajiri Kamui Kagura have them but Paradise Lost has its whole Sefirot and Abyss as part of its Heaven.

Some Paradise Lost translations that keeps talking about Higher Dimensions.
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Yes we will still keep this, I will add this scans to my revisions and post them sometimes this week, thanks a lot.
The only thing we are removing are the 24D barrier shenanigans.

I can post them as early as tomorrow but I may not be able to be free.to support the points I bring up till weekend that's why I am delaying
 
So what exactly will their Rating be when we take all this stuff in?

Heaven's can have Higher Dimensions, these Higher Dimensions are above Lower ones. All of this is only the bottom floor of the Singukarity which depth depends on the Throne Gods strength, with a higher Gods have a much greater depth then a lower Gods, with even Mercurius' being described as endless.

Beyond this is the Throne, it is the Hyper Dimensional Space (just because it has Dimension in the term does not mean its part of Higher dimensions, hyper is a suffix used to denote being beyond something, aka Hyper Dimensional can mean something beyond dimensions) used to regulate the Throne Gods Law and give birth the Creation, yet even the God's can destroy its Outer Layer (we have no idea what's going on with the inner layers yet so let's not get into that). Then the whole lower Gods can't beat stronger Gods.
 
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Everything12 said:
So what exactly will their Rating be when we take all this stuff in?
Click to expand...
At least Low Complex Multiverse level (Gods are higher dimensional beings that exists beyond the multiverse, with dimensions holding the same difference as the one between reality and fiction), likely Hyperverse level (Gods can pierce through the Singularity and its dimensional layers, including that of its center, where the Throne resides. While the amount of layers depends of the Throne God in place, Mercurius' stated that goingthrough the one under his heaven would be like "falling forever" while Hajun's was stated to be above the former, to the point of it only taking "the time a person would hold their breath" in comparison to the thousands of years Yato put drilling through it. Whether these dimensional layers works on a power is however left vague, since Soujirou and Shiori, two Gods below Yato, succeeded in breaching the last layer he didn't get through).


Then I will add the scans from.PL, I will find how I can incorporate it into this. But they become countless into 1B
 
I don't agree with that. We have clear evidence that Heaven's have Higher Dimensions (Somewhere in Tier 1) we know that no matter what size or what dimensions it has the Multiverse is still just the bottom floor of the Singularity (1-A), we know that stronger Gods can create Singularities of greater depths then weaker Gods and even a God with finite Taikyoku value could make a Singularity of endless depth (1-A+). The Gods are above that and are only stopped by the Throne God's power and the Throne itself getting in the way. The Gods themselves have their own Hierarchy because of the whole lower God can't beat Higher Gods thing (High 1-A).
 
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Everything12 said:
I don't agree with that. We have clear evidence that Heaven's have Higher Dimensions (Somewhere in Tier 1) we know that no matter what size or what dimensions it has the Multiverse is still just the bottom floor of the Singularity (1-A), we know that stronger Gods can create Singularities of greater depths then weaker Gods and even a God with finite Taikyoku value could make a Singularity of endless depth (1-A+). The Gods are above that and are only stopped by the Throne God's power and the Throne itself getting in the way. The Gods themselves have their own Hierarchy because of the whole lower God can't beat Higher Gods thing (High 1-A).
Click to expand...
i am at work currently, let us discuss properly after i finish with work, i will send a message here, so everyone knowledgeable can input
 
BTW I remember the Throne being called a Hyper Dimension was a reason that it was considered still part of Dimensions (not sure how many people here think that way), but Hyper as a suffix means
hyper-

a prefix appearing in loanwords from Greek, where it meant “over,” usually implying excess or exaggeration (hyperbole); on this model used, especially as opposed to hypo-, in the formation of compound words (hyperthyroid).
Click to expand...
It is normally used to apply something above or over something else, so a Hyper Dimensional Space would be a Space over Dimensions.

Just thought I'd put that out here as its been nagging me since the downgrade.
 
Everything12 said:
So what exactly will their Rating be when we take all this stuff in?

Heaven's can have Higher Dimensions, these Higher Dimensions are above Lower ones. All of this is only the bottom floor of the Singukarity which depth depends on the Throne Gods strength, with a higher Gods have a much greater depth then a lower Gods, with even Mercurius' being described as endless.

Beyond this is the Throne, it is the Hyper Dimensional Space (just because it has Dimension in the term does not mean its part of Higher dimensions, hyper is a suffix used to denote being beyond something, aka Hyper Dimensional can mean something beyond dimensions) used to regulate the Throne Gods Law and give birth the Creation, yet even the God's can destroy its Outer Layer (we have no idea what's going on with the inner layers yet so let's not get into that). Then the whole lower Gods can't beat stronger Gods.
Click to expand...
This looks like something beyond even 1-B maybe 1-A...I am waiting for @Tarang123 to post
 
Pain_to12 said:
likely Hyperverse level (Gods can pierce through the Singularity and its dimensional layers, including that of its center, where the Throne resides. While the amount of layers depends of the Throne God in place, Mercurius' stated that goingthrough the one under his heaven would be like "falling forever" while Hajun's was stated to be above the former, to the point of it only taking "the time a person would hold their breath" in comparison to the thousands of years Yato put drilling through it. Whether these dimensional layers works on a power is however left vague
Click to expand...
I disagree with almost everything here. Also where you getting this "dimensional layer" Singularity from ? The video you linked is without any time stamp so please tell it. This reminds of someone (in darksmash's thread iirc) who tried claiming Singularity has "Realms" by conflating Singularity with sefirot tree.

And that Shiori stuff...that's because of both Soujiro's and shiori's special taikyoku. One can cut literally everything, and other can increase her possibility to infinite. Not to mention the work Tenma Yato has been doing for years. That scene isn't vague.

Series' lore is very clear that reality cannot even exist inside the Singularity no matter the expansion done to the multiverse.
 
Well iirc The Throne has been called as Super High dimension (超高次元, Cho ko jigen) in Avesta for yall information.
 
So a word that has no meaning on its own. No, having the term dimension in it does not mean its not 1-A or above. Its like referring to a 1-A location as a Space, human language has to be slightly contradictory at times to get across ideas in a way that can be understood by others.

I guess the term can be taking to mean super high dimension mean its better then a higher dimension, but really its something that shouldn't be focused.
 
Everything12 said:
I don't agree with that. We have clear evidence that Heaven's have Higher Dimensions (Somewhere in Tier 1) we know that no matter what size or what dimensions it has the Multiverse is still just the bottom floor of the Singularity (1-A), we know that stronger Gods can create Singularities of greater depths then weaker Gods and even a God with finite Taikyoku value could make a Singularity of endless depth (1-A+). The Gods are above that and are only stopped by the Throne God's power and the Throne itself getting in the way. The Gods themselves have their own Hierarchy because of the whole lower God can't beat Higher Gods thing (High 1-A).
Click to expand...
Wow It's almost as if two huge threads debunking that never happened
 
Wel, the word Transcendent is never used, nor do I state that in my explanation. I stated that the depth of a Singularity is dependent on the Throne God's strength, Mercurius who has a strength valued at 90 is able to create one of Endless depth, Hajun's Singularity compares to that as all things Hajun does compares to other Gods.

None of what I stated in my explanation above is untrue. Threads debunking that don't matter, as previous threads accepting it didn't matter during the debunk.
 
Everything12 said:
Wel, the word Transcendent is never used, nor do I state that in my explanation.
Click to expand...
You equated endless depth to 1-A+, meaning you are implicitly assuming each step in the singularity is not only transcendent, but transcendent on the same scale as the difference between a 1-A entity and a human.

Everything12 said:
Mercurius who has a strength valued at 90 is able to create one of Endless depth,
Click to expand...
That was only appearing relatively endless because of being backed by Mercurius, and wouldn't scale to gods weaker than him.
 
Darksmash said:
Implying half of the arguments used for the verse aren't comparable to fantheories
Click to expand...
Yeah shit like "Singularity has Realms","There are dimensional layers in it", and "Singularity has two types : backed up by gods and not backed up by gods" are indeed fantheories.
 
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Odinson said:
Yeah shit like "Singularity has Realms","There are dimensional layers in it", and "Singularity has two types : backed up by gods and not backed up by gods" are indeed fantheories.
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Well all that is stuff that this website has used in the past, or is using right now. That's what happens when you use an untranslated verse for scaling. Should have advocated for deletion
 
Yeah, saying the layers of singularity are dimensional layers is some new fanfic. At least not older than the "realms" and "not backed/backed up by gods" stuff.
 
Just wait for my CRT and tender your arguments then, but yes the way singularity works between gods shows a hierarchy and transcedence
 
Darksmash said:
Personally I don't really see the point of keeping KKK stuff now that Yuri is gone as well
Click to expand...
you were the part of the people who said the verse should not be deleted, now you will have to live with it.
and Yuri is not the only supporter, i am one too and nah the verse stays i just put in hours of work into it and now you want to axx it?
 
Has your opinion of the possibly ratings your proposing changed based off what's been said here?
 
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