Shinra Kusakabe Conceptual Manipulation Downgrade

[Deceived3596]

Should be a pretty simple and easy going thread all things considered.

Shinra currently has Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1) for "altering the "intimacy" of death itself, causing everyone in-verse to be harder to kill", which is kinda eh for an explanation about Conceptual Manipulation but that isn't my problem. My problem with the rating itself, this isn't Type 1 since Death within Fire Force/Soul Eater, from my knowledge, isn't a Type 1 Concept. It isn't independent from the reality it governs and even if it was it's not provably shown on any profiles that's the case. Which means we would default to Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation since it has the required evidence for Type 2, but currently lacks that required "independency from reality it governs" aspect needed for Type 1.

TLDR: Shinra's CM gets downgraded from Type 1 to Type 2 because the evidence provided doesn't prove Type 1, but rather Type 2.

Voting:

Agree - @LephyrTheRevanchist, @Duedate8898

Disagree -

Neutral -

 

[ImmortalDread]

I am unsure whether to take a neutral stance because a similar situation arose in Touha's case where we were asked for evidence, and the response was that it was based on "common sense".

 

[Deceived3596]

What is blud waffling about.

 

[azontr]

 

[Lynieryz]

I don't know if I understood it wrong but type 2 is a concept that depends on an "object" for example: cell phones, in case all existing cell phones are destroyed the concept of cell phones will cease to exist and what changes in type 1 is that its existence does not depend on "objects"?

And if what I understand is right, shouldn't death naturally be type 2?
Or if all living beings cease to exist, the concept of death will also cease??? It doesn't make much sense, What are the wiki standards in relation to this...

 

[ImmortalDread]

What is blud waffling about.

Saying that you don't need the evidence of independence if the nature of said concept already clarify it due to common sense

 

[Ped2018]

Saying that you don't need the evidence of independence if the nature of said concept already clarify it due to common sense

Dread, this is not relevant to this thread, like, at all.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Why? This is the standards. Call Planck and Klol to check this.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I agree

 

[Maitreya12]

You’d have to ask the person who put type 1 on Shinra’s profile in the first place what their reasoning was cause it sure as hell wasn’t me but yeah that was always something I wondered about on his profile

I’d have to brush up on some knowledge in regards to type 1 conceptual manipulation and what it entails but so far I’m not opposed to this downgrade. I just wanna know how I can make the argument even stronger

Maybe something in regards to Shinra’s higher dimensional existence would entail the rating? I think you mentioned something similar in that regards idk.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

You’d have to ask the person who put type 1 on Shinra’s profile in the first place what their reasoning was cause it sure as hell wasn’t me but yeah that was always something I wondered about on his profile

I’d have to brush up on some knowledge in regards to type 1 conceptual manipulation and what it entails but so far I’m not opposed to this downgrade. I just wanna know how I can make the argument even stronger

Maybe something in regards to Shinra’s higher dimensional existence would entail the rating? I think you mentioned something similar in that regards idk.

If my friend doesn't disagree that he understands the subject very well, then I strongly agree with that.

 

[Bobsican]

Easiest way to claim type 1 CM is for the concept in question being specified to exist before the cosmology it's bound to.

 

[Deceived3596]

Maybe something in regards to Shinra’s higher dimensional existence would entail the rating? I think you mentioned something similar in that regards idk.

It would be in regards to Adolla's Higher-D Existence to be more specific.

But yeah, there's definitely an argument for Adolla specifically having Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation, but that isn't currently used on Shinra's page. We're still using the "alternated the intimacy of death" shit, which seemingly is only Type 2.

I might add it after this thread is concluded, idk.

 

[Maitreya12]

Easiest way to claim type 1 CM is for the concept in question being specified to exist before the cosmology it's bound to.

Oh then Adolla might actually be considered type 1 conceptual stuff since it’s stated that all things stem from and are erased by imagination, which includes all things in the universe.

So yeah it might be the case but I gotta ask @Deceived3596 his opinions on the matter

 

[Lynieryz]

You’d have to ask the person who put type 1 on Shinra’s profile in the first place what their reasoning was cause it sure as hell wasn’t me but yeah that was always something I wondered about on his profile

I’d have to brush up on some knowledge in regards to type 1 conceptual manipulation and what it entails but so far I’m not opposed to this downgrade. I just wanna know how I can make the argument even stronger

Maybe something in regards to Shinra’s higher dimensional existence would entail the rating? I think you mentioned something similar in that regards idk.

Shouldn't he have type 1 through Hope for being equivalent/superior to adolla's Despair?

 

[Maitreya12]

Shouldn't he have type 1 through Hope for being equivalent/superior to adolla's Despair?

Shinra has all of Adolla’s abilities because his mom is literally the doppelgänger of The Evangelist lol

 

[Lynieryz]

Shinra has all of Adolla’s abilities because his mom is literally the doppelgänger of The Evangelist lol

I know... now transmute this thread into an upgrade to adolla's cm

 

[Deceived3596]

So yeah it might be the case but I gotta ask @Deceived3596 his opinions on the matter

I personally don't see anything in this scan which implies Imagination, or any other conceptual idea existed before the cosmological reality of Fire Force/Soul Eater tbh.

It just seems to explain that Imagination creates and erases all possibilities, not that Imagination existed before the creation of the cosmological reality of Fire Force/Soul Eater.

 

[Maitreya12]

I personally don't see anything in this scan which implies Imagination, or any other conceptual idea existed before the cosmological reality of Fire Force/Soul Eater tbh.

It just seems to explain that Imagination creates and erases all possibilities, not that Imagination existed before the creation of the cosmological reality of Fire Force/Soul Eater.

Oh whoops I read the “creates and erases all possibilities” as to include the humans and the stars from the previous statement as part of the “possibilities” from imagination since I thought that’s what the word was in reference to lol

Like I read the scan as basically a combo of the first and second paragraph reading like “every thing in this world is created and erased from imagination.”

That’s probably just how I interpreted the scan tbh nothing more.

 

[Deceived3596]

Bump

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I might be completely wrong but looking at the scans, it looks more like Information Manipulation and Subjective Reality to me with this talk of imagination affecting possibilities and reality plus the creation of different power system as well as making it harder for people to die with Soul Eater.

 

[Maitreya12]

I might be completely wrong but looking at the scans, it looks more like Information Manipulation and Subjective Reality to me with this talk of imagination affecting possibilities and reality plus the creation of different power system as well as making it harder for people to die with Soul Eater.

No? Shinra actually altered the very concepts of Life and Death.

He lessened the “value” in life and made death more “intimate” which in turn made everyone harder to kill because what was known as “death” fundamentally changed in the verse.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

No? Shinra actually altered the very concepts of Life and Death.

He lessened the “value” in life and made death more “intimate” which in turn made everyone harder to kill because what was known as “death” fundamentally changed in the verse.

Hmmm... regardless I'm taking a neutral stance on this subject (some form of CM seems legit tho) plus he already has the stuff I mentioned via cross-scaling with the Evangelist, so mute point on my behalf.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Gotta agree with the downgrade.

 

[Duedate8898]

Looks simple enough, Type 2 seems more fitting here based on the scan and the wording we have for concept manipulation

 

[Deceived3596]

Well since this thread has two mods with evaluation rights agreeing with it, zero disagreeing with it, the needed allot of time have passing, and it being a relatively small change, i'll make the change here shortly.

Edit I've made the change, this thread can be closed.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Edit I've made the change, this thread can be closed.

Closing