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Servant Tier List (Skill-based)

Actually, I'd say that Saber and Lancer (Fate/Zero) were about even. It's just that Lancer's planning/prep was better and that he had better hax to help him deal with her.

In their second fight they were even completely, with Artoria hold a possible advantage.
 
Arthuria is for sure not on the same tier, no. Tristan makes it very clear in his Interlude, the only reason Mordred's rebellion could even happen and she could beat Gawain is that she had the good instincts to pounce on him after his duel with Lancelot. Otherwise, in his own words, he'd kill her without much fanfare, no sun boosts needed. Mordred doesn't even try to rebuke this idea.

Mordred, by extension, could actually battle with her father for an extended period of time. Arthuria is above her as she won, but the battle wasn't a one sided beat down.
 
I don't know where exactly, but he doesn't go in the same tier, and REALLY has no business going in a tier below.

Considering the consensus is that Mordred would get killed without much issue even without sun boosts, B++ or A.
 
Now that you mention that I am trying to think where would Billy go from his shooting skills... his Marksmanship does point out his gun shooting talent is the kind you see only once in a century.
 
Considering she's pretty much made for battle, I do not see her lower than Arthuria at least. Sadly I don't remember much of everything else she's pulled off elsewhere.
 
Regend might be the only guy sitting at EX rank. Musashi's profile states that she's still trying to reach the level he has achieved.

Lancelot should be around Karna levels with his Arms mastery and being superior to Gawain. Arondight's unique properties helped him, but he still stalemated Gawain until the sun set. Speaking of Gawain, he deserves to be in the same tier as Siegfried. Although he didn't have to deal with the same long spear advantage that messed up Siegfried 72 times, he still did fight pretty evenly with Karna in CQC where the swordsman have the upperhand, which is better than what Siegfried did however slight the difference might be.

It's significantly hard to rank skills, like skills in what? For example, you have Lancers that are super skilled in melee like Karna, Scathach and Li Shuwen then you have those that are super skilled at spearthrowing like Cu, Achilles and Hector. You'll also have to analyze them based on their weapons, what they have an advantage or disadvantage in. That's how I do it. I try to see how Sabers or Lancers deal with Archers at long ranges, or how Archers fight them at close range.

Same case with Lancers vs Sabers, if the Lancer has a long spear/or polearm/or halberg then how does the Saber deal with it? Vice versa, how would the spearman deal with the swordman at closer ranges? Etc.
 
Musashi achieved completion and became Regend's equal in that one interlude.

Idk about Gawain equaling Karna. I'd need more opinions on it
 
Cu should be put as equal to, if not above, Scathach, since, despite his own downplay of his abilities vs hers, he has canonically killed her at least twice without madness enhancement (once in myth, once in Extella)

Artoria should be put into a higher tier than Cu because Artoria lmao-rofl-stomped him despite having AGI 2 ranks lower than his. She even defeated his casaulity reverting NP, which he was put into a corner and forced to use.

In fact, I'd honestly put Gawain and Artoria in the same tier, or Artoria just barely below him. I went and rechecked the fight between her and lancer and she was definitively more skilled than him, but held herself back in their second duel. Even then, Lancer was hard pressed and could not find a solid advantage, even against a handicapped Artoria. Additionally, we have varying info on Artoria and Mordred's duel, but from the scenes in Fate/Apocrypha are anything to go by, Mordred didn't stand a chance against her and was utterly destroyed, with the fatal wound to Artoria coming from Mordred's corpse and Morgan's curse rather than her actual skill.

It's also been stated that a "wielder of the Sword of Promised Victory" was what defeated Atilla, so there's also that to go by.

So all in all, Cu Chulainn and Scathach go into B tier, Mordred either stays or gets promoted to B+ tier, Artoria gets promoted to B++ tier, and

Tl;Dr: Don't underestimate the face of type-moon
 
"It's also been stated that a "wielder of the Sword of Promised Victory" was what defeated Atilla, so there's also that to go by."

I can't tell if you're implying that Artoria somehow ended up in the past and beat up Atilla or that the sword actually makes sure that the wielder wins. I'm pretty sure it's known that the one who beat Atilla wasn't Artoria.
 
I would also like to state that the only bits of evidence for Scathach's classification is because her skill "treads into the realm of the gods" and that she has "killed a divine spirit with pure skill".

These are unquantifiable feats. We can't know how much skill is required to "tread into the realm of the gods" and we don't know how much skill is needed to kill a divine spirit. These statements sound more impressive than they actually are, especially since we lack context. If this is truly a A++ rank feat, then all the god pseudo servants should be A++/EX Rank. But that doesn't make sense, since we don't know how skilled these gods are.

Additionally, Cu's justification comes from a throw away line from Archer, which is completely unreliable. Archer could only know three lancers, he could be trying goad Cu into being cocky, etc, etc. We simply cannot rely on Archer's word, since he's not fully reliable.

On a brighter note, EMIYA should be notable high, due to holding his own and even managing to kill charaters who are vastly more powerful and more skilled. Cu and Heracles; He managed to kill Heracles a total of six times, and didn't die against Cu, who has an AGI rank 2 ranks above him, and an STR rank 2 ranks above him. Heracles is even more impressive, with all of Heracles's stats being at minimum 2 ranks above EMIYA, aside from his Mana.

Suffice to say, EMIYA is fairly skilled.
 
Considering it happened off screen and EMIYA's character, isn't it more likely he tried cheesing as hard as he could with a bunch of haxxy Noble Phantasms rather than having killed Herc with B and K a bunch of times? The former requires far less skill than the latter.
 
The statement is that a spam from Archer's projections is supposed be just mild annoyance for most servants. Herc was talking about how he wanted to test swordskills with Emiya if he were sane, and most of his wounds seem to be from slashes rather than piercing. That being said, Emiya was also completely dominated by Cu and Artoria, so it's likely that he scored 6 lives combining both his wits (for the most part) and skills.
 
Creaturemaster971 said:
Musashi achieved completion and became Regend's equal in that one interlude.
Idk about Gawain equaling Karna. I'd need more opinions on it
Click to expand...
Gawain can melee Karna at the range where Sabers have an advantage. As can Siegfried and the difference between him and Karna was small. But at the range where Karna has an advantage with his long spear from Apo, they'd have to eat around 70 hits to get close or never approach him at all. Gawain luckily didn't have to deal with that in Foxtail.
 
Hun Tiandi said:
Emiya was also completely dominated by Cu and Artoria
Click to expand...
Justifiable in that, given her Alter's showings, mana is the only thing hindering her from beating Herk in a head-on fight.
 
Scathach is rated that high due to having essentially the same skill statements as Karna and Hozoin.

That said, the likes of Siegfried, Achilles, and whoever scales to them in skill may also be justified in shifting up to A++ rank due to being directly comparable to Karna.

What other evidence is there of Gawain scaling to Karna in skill?

"We can't know how much skill is required to "tread into the realm" of the gods" and we don't know how much skill is needed to kill a divine spirit. These statements sound more impressive than they actually are, especially since we lack context. If this is truly a A++ rank feat, then all the god pseudo servants should be A++/EX Rank. But that doesn't make sense, since we don't know how skilled these gods are."

Based on statements in the lore of various heroes, it seems to be a general constant that the gods, by definition, transcend humanity in terms of combat skill. Lancelot and Tristan both have statements of surpassing humanity as a whole, and are still completely outmatched by the likes of Karna and Arash, who have "realm of the gods" skill statements.
 
Arturia is hard to rate though, she was dominating the fight with cu on fsn, but was trashed by berserkerlot. Well I think it's because of Arondight being strong againts dragon.
 
Lancelot is canonically her superior, and Tristan has better statements. I think the primary skill statements we've gotten from her is the fact that she's mastered pretty much every form of western swordsmanship.
 
Whoa, Cu made it pretty high. He has good statements going for his spearthrowing skills, but not so much in melee. He kept getting dominated by Artoria under Shirou in all three routes, even in the fate route when he wasn't being held back by a command seal. That statement from Archer is based on his own experience and I don't really take it seriously tbh, but if I had to say it was referring to something, it's certainly not his skill in melee.
 
Scathach being put beneath Cu would never make any sense, Knight. Cu surpassed the Scathach from his time. The Scathach we know kept on training and training since she was immortal and ended up surpassing Cu all over again. She IS superior to him, in pretty much everything.
 
John985 said:
It doesnt matter if it's not melee here.
Click to expand...
Why not? Archers can generally be ignored for their lack of skill in melee, but not Lancers. How they can tango with others in CQC is pretty important to evaluate their skill. Cu has lesser showings than even Diarmuid in that regard.
 
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