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Servant Tier List (Skill-based)

Cu shouldn't be that high. We have one throw-away statement about him being in the top three of all lancers from an unreliable source. He was rofl-stomped by Artoria, and could be held back by Emiya.
 
But yeah, B++ Artoria, B+ Cu, and that's it for me right now.

I still don't like those "treading into the realm of the gods" statements.
 
Performance in melee is a large part of his overall skill. Again, he is not an Archer and ranged-combat is not his primary choice. He is a melee fighter, how he performs in that should play a large part in how we evaluate him.
 
Achilles should be higher. That "exceedingly close to the level of the gods" statement is about Achilles himself, not his skills. In Apocrypha novel Achilles was many times described as one who rivals Karna in strength and abilities and this was also confirmed by both rulers, who have all the information about each servant. Achilles simultaneously outfought Siegfried and Frankenstein despite don't fighting seriously, also he would've easily one shoted Chiron, if he don't knew Achilles, his habbits and his body's movements so well.
 
Just reread the Artoria vs Cu fight. She was defeating him him because her sword was invisible and he couldn't predict its length, with it directly stating that the fact that he was still defending fairly well was a sign that Cu's skills were more impressive, and she outmaneuvered Gae Bolg with luck
 
Cu should actually be higher, at least on the level of Arthoria. He was holding back enough against everyone he fought once with that Archer could see his moves, while later on he couldn't even perceive how Lancer was attacking and moved entirely based on Mind's Eye, his specialized fighting style and having experienced Lancer's skills. Even before that, he was kind of dominating Archer who would have been screwed if he couldn't recreate the swords Lancer kept knocking off his hands.

Consequently, pure stats wise, Lancer was more or less on Arthoria's level - but while she had an invisible sword and Instinct at an A rank, he just had his skill.

The thing about Achilles one shotting Chiron and not doing it because Chiron knew him is... dumb though, don't rely on that. Achilles also knew Chiron back especifically because he was his mentor. Rather, Achilles had way more strength, was more resilient and was just as if not more fast. It is a feat for Chiron he held on so well and even pushed Achilles back even if he knew his moves.
 
**** I ERASED ALL OF IT SON OF A BITCH

Okay, I'm gonna try to piece the new list back together as it was, feel free to correct me if something seems off.

EX: Zero Musashi and Infinity Kojirou

A++: Li Shuwen (Was stated by Hozoin to be potentially equal to him and outskills Okada), Hozoin Inshun (Outskills pre-zero Musashi and is comparable to Yagyu), Yan Qing (Comparable to Li Shuwen), Munenori Yagyu (Outskills pre-zero Musashi and has achieved a close equivalent to Zero), Diarmuid (Saber) (Capable of swordfighting the likes of Yagyu), Karna (Outskills Achilles by at least a small amount), Arjuna (Rival to Karna and outshot Billy the Kid), Arash (Easily outskills Chiron, Tristan, and Atalanta), Rama (Referred to as an equal to Karna and Arjuna)

A+: Pre-Zero Musashi (Was considered among the most skilled Japanese swordsmen even before grasping Zero), Okada Izou (Just below Li Shuwen due to his raw talent), Okita Souji (On par with Okada Izou), Billy the Kid (Similar statements to Okita, outmatching his shooting was considered impressive for Arjuna), Achilles (The only warrior in Apocrypha who stood a chance against Karna in skill, comparable to Chiron), Hector (Paper-thin difference in skill between he and Achilles), Chiron (Easily outshot Atalanta), Lancelot (The most skilled knight of the Round Table)

A: Sigurd, Siegfried, Gawain, Tristan, Atalanta, Tomoe Gozen, King Hassan, Scathach, Cu Chulainn

B++: Sherlock Holmes
 
I'll add more parenthesis eventually, but for now I'll address Lancelot's point.

Okada and Okita are explicitly comparable in skill, but Okada is outmatched by Shuwen due to the experience difference, though his raw talent means that the difference isn't that massive.

A-rank is for Servants that have "realm of the gods/surpassing humanity" statements, but lack the scaling to get moved higher, e.g. Scathach
 
I meant more that he did end up winning since Shuwen actually trained instead of doing things half assed like Okada, but as far as I could remember the fight was actually quite close.

Uuuuh... didn't Li Shuwen want to fight Scathach and seeminly look up to her quite highly?
 
1. Perhaps, I've never seen the fight, I just had it described to me.

2. Dunno. I'm going solely off of the profiles and the wiki, having not played fgo yet
 
So as far as scaling goes we have:

Zero Musashi and Infinity Kojirou outskill the verse

Hozoin and Li Shuwen are equals, Yan Qing is comparable to Li Shuwen, and Shuwen respects Scathach's skills enough to want a duel

Li Shuwen outskills Okada by a paper-thin margin, and I know that Hozoin beat Yagyu, though I'm not sure how big the skill difference

Okada and Okita are equals (I think), and Diarmuid is able to duel Yagyu on even footing (albiet with the advantage of better abilities and weapons)

Pre-Zero Musashi is greatly outskilled by both Hozoin and Yagyu (the former by a factor of 1 to 32), but presumably outskills most if not all other swordsmen

==
Karna, Arjuna, and Rama are all equals

Achilles is able to rival Karna in skill, and only beat Hector and Chiron by a paper-thin margin

Arjuna handily outskills Billy the Kid, which is considered a particularly impressive feat as Billy is already described as one of the most skilled Archers

Achilles outskills Siegfried mid-difficulty, who is presumably nearly comparable to Sigurd (though Sigurd has the edge in terms of statements given in lore, and easily outskills Holmes)

Chiron outskills Atalanta pretty handily, who also outskills most Archers

==
Lancelot outskills Gawain who outskills the Round Table, the other most skilled of whom is Sir Tristan

Tristan is able to somewhat match Arash with assistance, who handily outskills Chiron and laughably outskills Atalanta

Seem correct?
 
Keep in mind that, of course, direct confrontation doesn't by itself mean a lot and that many times, pure compatibility skews things one way or the other. For Arash, I think it is almost a given that he's at the top of the Archery chain with maybe Karna and Arjuna (if we ever finally Archer Karna) being comparable or below in skill.

Another good feat for him is a special move where he creates 10,000 arrows that could easily destroy akihabara and kill anyone that remained in there at night, but he has the skill to veer off all the arrows so that they don't destroy anything and kill anyone, despite shooting all 10,000 in extremely quick sucession.
 
Yes, I'm pretty sure these are the confrontations that were explicitly skill. Only one I'm still iffy on is whether Gawain really matches Lancelot
 
He doesn't no, he's certianly below. Even with Sunboost, Lancelot stalameted until it wore off. But he should be above the rest - Tristan mentions Mordred even dared trying to kill Gawain because he extensively weakened and near death, and otherwise would get curbstomped, the same Mordred that lost to but could fight Arthuria and has instinct. Mordred doesn't deny this at all.
 
Below her. Originally surpassed her but then she had millenia to get better since, undying and all that jazz.

Not sure how below but he isn't in the creme of the crop.
 
Okayyy... So let's try...

Most Servants < Knights of the Round < Artoria, Mordred, Atalanta < Tristan, Gawain, Siegfried, Chiron, Billy the Kid < Holmes? < Lancelot, Achilles, Hector, Sigurd < Karna, Arjuna, Rama, Pre-Zero Musashi < Li Shuwen, Okada, Okita, Hozoin, Yagyu, Yan Qing, Scathach < Arash < Zero Musashi, Infinity Kojirou
 
Does Pre-Zero Musashi have any feats to be so high? You can also include Ashwatthama on that list. The description of his skill "Maharatha" says that he equals Karna and Arjuna
 
1. She's supposed to be among the best swordsmen ever, so my rule of thumb was "above all other swordsmen that don't specifically scale above her"
 
I'm wholly surprised Shirou hasn't been ranked yet. Even as a human, he had to put effort into missing his targets. Add on to the fact that, statistically speaking, he's kinda a meh servant, yet he can still clash insanely powerful opponents like almost the whole servant cast of FSN at one point or another with varying results, and you come to realize the Wrought Iron Hero almost always relies on skill
 
Creaturemaster971 said:
1. She's supposed to be among the best swordsmen ever, so my rule of thumb was "above all other swordsmen that don't specifically scale above her"
Click to expand...
Isn't that said about male Musashi? In Shimosa our Musashi was more like an inexperienced swordswoman who had not yet reached her peak


Description of Aswatthama skill:

Warrior of the Emperor: A+ (Maharatha)
Something in which his anecdote as the best warrior appearing in the Mahabharata, extolled to be ranked equal with Karna and Arjuna.
By combining it with Violation of the Chivalry Code, and Personification of Rage, he becomes more of a mad warrior than a Berserker.
 
EMIYA is notably the hardest to rank despite feats of his and those that can be scaled to him (i.e Shirou's feats) as, disregarding the fact that the weapons he projects have degraded skills of its original owners of their own (sans Kanshou and Bakuya), he is notably capable of keeping up with the upper echelon of skill (Cu and Herakles both compliment him for it) despite his subpar stats, he also was notably able to do so because of his advantage of knowing already how his opponent goes about if he can see and prepare for them beforehand.

Paraphrased:

Herakles - I wanna fight you while sane!

Cu - Why work with the witch when you're this good?
 
Keep in mind, Archer only did as good as he did against people that good because he had previous experience. He makes it clear he could only get that good against Lancer after already seeing his fighting style and using Eye of the Mind and his specialized fighting style. Herk... well, he's not faster than Vu and the real danger is his power.

He's very skilled, but there's context. His whole fighting style is about overcoming a difference in pure stats and not even trying to keep up with his opponent.
 
EMIYA Archer's fighting style is about countering the enemy abilities with any means necessary, rather than through pure fighting skill. He's effective against Gilgamesh who has no weaponry mastery and able to copy almost all of his weapon, but cut in short by heavily specialised fighter in close combat like Sasaki Kojirou and ranged combat with superior Archer like Arjuna, or those with abilities that almost can't be countered at all like BB and her Sakura Five.
 
So basically what I'm understanding here is that Shirou is talented, but take his FSN feats with a grain of salt, as he's already got their respective fighting styles as experience. He's still place fairly high, no?
 
I say he's notable, but not in the higher echelons of skill. He's sorta the EX rank of martial skill in that it's just too hard to actually gauge where he falls.
 
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