Servant Tier List (Skill-based)

[John985]

We dont have any info about Caenis yet.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I mean in real myth, but well forget, we just wait then.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Don't think Lanliang has enough skill hype or feats to be justified as the best swordsman.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Arjuna is probably better than Tristan and Arash at Archery. His accuracy is compared to homing missles and he can shoot down high speed bullets shot by Billy. Plus he can use his bow up close at high speeds allowing him to fight Karna pretty evenly even if he was slowly getting overwhelmed.

 

[John985]

Chiron said that the skills of Arash surpass him in Apocrypha event.

• Chiron: "I am better at most things than the average person, but I don't stand out prominently. I cannot run as fast as Achilles and Atalante, and I cannot win in strength against Spartacus. Beating each of you at your specialties is impossible for me, I'm afraid. Though I may be good with a bow--- take for example Arash Kamangir, the bowman who split the very earth. I would not win against him. I am a teacher. Not a hero who stands atop any summit. But I do not mean only Achilles when I talk about that. Sieg and Guda, I think of the both of you as my students too. If we had more time I would teach you about various things, but..."

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Is Circe gonna get a profile once she has interlude/event feats?

Also waiting on my favorite servant(s) and their profile.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Gonna put Atalante up there for getting her skillz the same way as Chiron

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I forgot who Ever told me was doing Circe. All I recall is she needs to have her feats from Salem looked over and whatever as well as her skills from her mats translated before she can made.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Ah I see. Any word on Sakamoto and Oryo? (favorite servant)

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Same thing as Circe, as do Okitan/Okita Alter.

I agree with wanting more profiles, but I would appreciate peeps here to hold on longer seeing as it takes time to make them (not just formating the profiles to that of this particular wikia's...err format, but also waiting for translation mats from Beast Lair and/or Reddit, as well as actually using feats of the characters and not just doing generic scaling or so Rep put it as for me).

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Oh, absolutely. There's no rush for me, I was just wondering.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Question for those who know the lore:

Did Saber (Sigurd) surpass humanity in skill, or was he just the pinnacle of warriors?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

BUMP!!

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Because if it's the latter, I'd say Siegfried is actually more skilled

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

It's never really explained as far as I remember. But it would be really weird for him to lay beneath Sieg in Swordsmanship.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Why's that? Sieg is supposed to be another one of the top-tier sabers and held his own against Karna

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Tbh, I think Saber Diarmuid should be up there since he is at least as capable as his Lancer counterpart and took on Artoria in a bout of skill and won

 

[Gemmysaur]

Arturia is skilled, but she's hardly legendary in her sword fighting, iirc.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Isnt she loosely comparable to Lancelot in skill?

 

[Gemmysaur]

Yeah, no. Her saving grace is Instinct, Avalon and Excalibur.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Instinct is the product of her own skill, and he has his own equivalent to Excalibur

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Where does Instinct even come from?

Like, Eye of the Mind False comes from excessive talent, Eye of the Mind True comes from excessive experience, so where does Instinct come from?

Excessive training?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Maybe inherent talent?

 

[Creaturemaster971]

From reading about it, it seems to be less of an inherent fighting talent like EotM False, and more just good gut instincts in the heat of the moment

 

[Gemmysaur]

Iirc, it's innate, and only honed, not gained. So yeah, it's not a byproduct of Arturia's skill.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Instinct is the product of her own skill, and he has his own equivalent to Excalibur

Lancelot has Eternal Arms because of his legend, in that he's so damn good that he beat armed people with a stick. Arondight is just icing on the cake. Also irc, Instinct is innate, and only honed, not gained. So yeah, it's not a byproduct of Arturia's skill.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Why's that? Sieg is supposed to be another one of the top-tier sabers and held his own against Karna

And Sigurd is supposed to be the Pinnacle of all warriors at the top of which he stands and also one of the top servants. I think the way he trivializes fighting Mashu and Holmes while not even trying to kill them cements this well.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Were he and Siegfried two different people in the Nasuverse? And if so, did they live in the same time period?

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

"The son born from the union between Sigmund, King of Hunaland, and the daughter of King Eylimis, Hiordis.

Even amongst the brothers who are said to be mighty heroes with strength, intelligence, and all manners of techniques and abilities that surpass the common man…

You were the most excellent of them, a man praised as the noble King of Warriors.

You were the wondrous swordsman who renewed further the demonic sword which King Sigmund obtained from overcoming the great god's trial at the Barnstokkr."-Holmes

So Sigurd is better than his brothers who all have surpassed the skill of man. We also have this quote from Holmes.

"Your true name is Sigurd! Equal to Siegfried, one of the strongest Heroic Spirits in Scandinavia!"-Holmes

As they are equal I assume them to also be equal in skill or at least in the same ballpark.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Interesting. So they were different people?

 

[Gemmysaur]

They are different.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Very different.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Alright cool. Were they alive during the same time period in the Fateverse?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Yeah. Here is a quote from Fate/Apocrypha mats for Siegfried.

Siegfried's legend came into existence around the 5~6th century and spread to many lands. At nearly the same time as the "Nibelungenlied", the story of the hero Sigurd, the "Volsunga Saga", came into existence.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Wikia mentions they're origins are almost from the same time, so it leads me to assume that it follows their mythos' release to the real world, Volsung Saga (Sigurd) coming first and Nibelungenlied (Siegfried) later.

Also, Wikia mentions that Gram is the origin for Balmung.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Okay, so I'm thinking.

Something that occurred to me in another thread:

Odin desires warriors for his armies at Valhalla, favoring those of incredible skill and honorable philosophies, and he sought to recruit Sigurd above all others, hence Brynhildr's initial attachment to him, which would certainly imply a vast amount of superiority to anyone else alive at the time. This would have included Nasu Siegfried, whose swordsmanship surpassed the realm of humanity before even slaying Fafnir and reaching the height of his abilities.

Also his brothers have similar "surpassing humanity" statements to Siegfried, and he's specifically said to have surpassed them.

So I think it's probably save to say he outskills Sumenai.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Did the 'his brothers surpassing humanity' come from the wikia? I don't see it. Rather, it says that his brothers speak of him as surpassing humanity, in both martial skill and magic that the people call him King of Warriors.

Siegfried on the other hand is a peerless swordsman who surpassed mankind, and is also a moving fortress.

If anything, that tells us they're more or less equal. Sigurd having an edge with magic, while Siegfried is hilariously durable.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Ramesses quoted it above, apparently from Bandersnatch Cabbagepatch

 

[Gemmysaur]

This is what sets them apart.

Even amongst the brothers who are said to be mighty heroes with strength, intelligence, and all manners of techniques and abilities that surpass the common man…

Sigurd and Siegfried surpass humanity, but Sigurd's brothers surpass the common man.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Oooooohhh.

Well, in that case they may indeed be equal. Updating OP again.