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only Og's will remember that time we spent 6 months on a single CRT thread that was active nearly every day that it eventually turned into a General Discussion thread.
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See, we told you we were working on it! (Naruto Revision Part 1: Scaling)
- Thread starter LordTracer
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Wait, let me catch up on what this business with Obito is...
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I consider this pretty weak evidence for Obito to be scaling to Minato. He caught Minato's hand after Minato had completed swinging his Kunai through Obito's intangible head; he didn't match the attack head-on. (If someone swings a baseball bat down on your head, they could one-shot you, but if catch them by their arms you're not taking anything close to the full force of the bat hitting you directly, for example) This also reminds me of how I dislike that based on very little evidence we're saying that Minato stabbing someone with a Kunai is scaling to "possibly Large Mountain level+"....
The latter feat is just a feat for Obito's chain at most and we don't even see Minato really struggling to get out; he just teleports out of it. That doesn't mean he was forced to have no other option than to teleport in order to escape.
I'd rather just leave teen Obito as Unknown considering all of his actual attacks against Minato weren't AP-based. Minato claims that Obito wasn't an ordinary Shinobi because he saw through every one of his moves, not because he was a physical powerhouse on the level of the Raikage.
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Alright, that makes sense.
MinatoSparkle
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Yeah, but a bat isn't someone's power, that's their weapon's power. You're still matching the physical power of their own body by catching their arm.
Uh...pretty sure standard assumption is that all attacks scale to your striking strength/AP.
It implies he wasn't able to just break free physically.
If Obito was like 8-A or something he'd have no way to stop Minato physically at all, he should at least downscale.
We have one staff for and one against.
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I think what Damage is getting at is that Obito caught the tail end of the swing, like Minato’s swing reaches max force and speed at the pinnacle of the swing before slowing down. Obito caught the slowing down swing, as opposed to catching the swing right before it would hit his head at full force.
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Well, technically, putting him at Unknown isn't the same as saying he's 8-A, 8-B, or whatever. It's more like "we don't have enough conclusive evidence or feats to properly rate this character, so we simply don't." It's a bit of a copout, but it's also better than making a lot of assumptions, or rating characters inaccurately. Not saying that's what you're doing, but I'm just saying that this rating is sometimes helpful in a lot of cases. (Even if I personally dislike it)
MinatoSparkle
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Eh sure, but in this case it's not like Obito has conflicting physical feats, so I don't see the reason for it.
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It's not so much about there being conflicting feats as much as proving that what he has is a proper physical feat in the first place. (It is technically a physical feat regardless, but you get my point)
Damage's point, like Arc explained, is that Obito didn't really stop the full force of Minato's swing.
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So what I'm seeing is Unknown (Far stronger than when he was younger, who effortlessly killed many Anbu. Matched Minato in battle, though it was mainly due to his ability, rather than raw power)
MinatoSparkle
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But we don't know that Minato's swing lost its force by the time his hand finished swinging through his head.
That'd look really ugly. Cause then it'd be "Unknown, at most At least 7-B, possibly High 7-A"
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If Minato is At least 7-B, possibly High 7-A, why not just downscale Obito to “7-B, at most High 7-A”
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well if we are unsure we can always use the anime as a reference point in situations like this
Feat Stars at 5:51
Feat Stars at 5:51
MinatoSparkle
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Hey it was gonna end after Obito got the rating
Kinda shows the same thing. Still a High 7-A+ feat.
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A bit hard to tell from the video but it still doesn't look like Obito catching Minato's arm is a High 7-A+ feat to me.
Not to mention that when Obito actually gets hit from a direct attack from Minato, he is completely wrecked by it and has to retreat after just taking 1 attack.
I'm against scaling Obito to Minato.
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His arm kinda melts off, and he's forced to retreat, but his back (which took the actual hit) was seemingly fine and he was still conscious and whatnot.
Overall I'd say the Rasengan is above Obito, but not to a point where he gets one-shot by it.
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Why are we saying Obito can’t scale to his physicals because his arm got hit with a rasengan?
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That's not really what's being said though....
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It's not the only thing that's being said, but it's an argument
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It's not the important thing here. Obito's durability already downscales.
His AP is what's being questioned here.
Damage is against him scaling due to this
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we can just make Obito "Unknown" Possibly 7-B at most High 7-A.
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My thoughts too.
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My doubts is in regards to Minato's striking strength here, along with Obito catching his arm being enough for him to scale.
Ay is only Large Mountain level+ in V2. He is in fact rated as At least City level ordinarily.
Fighting many times doesn't mean all of those fights were with V2 active.
Being the strongest overall doesn't mean his base striking strength has to be higher than Sage Mode Jiraiya's.
Also that whole statement is highly suspect considering the existence of Madara and Hashirama.
Could be comparable to A, sure. Does not mean he has to be comparable to V2 A.
So the actual evidence for Minato having Large Mountain level+ striking strength when he swung around to stab Obito in the head looks really doubtful to me.
Add on to that the fact that Obito only caught his arm; he didn't block the attack or withstand any other attack, and the whole thing looks bad to me. He didn't even "strike" Minato; he just grabbed him and held on to him for a split-second while the Kamui was activating.
Ay is only Large Mountain level+ in V2. He is in fact rated as At least City level ordinarily.
Fighting many times doesn't mean all of those fights were with V2 active.
Being the strongest overall doesn't mean his base striking strength has to be higher than Sage Mode Jiraiya's.
Also that whole statement is highly suspect considering the existence of Madara and Hashirama.
Could be comparable to A, sure. Does not mean he has to be comparable to V2 A.
So the actual evidence for Minato having Large Mountain level+ striking strength when he swung around to stab Obito in the head looks really doubtful to me.
Add on to that the fact that Obito only caught his arm; he didn't block the attack or withstand any other attack, and the whole thing looks bad to me. He didn't even "strike" Minato; he just grabbed him and held on to him for a split-second while the Kamui was activating.
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Just Ping me when you guys are finished with the Minato and Obito stuff.
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Let's just delete the profiles and call it a day.
MinatoSparkle
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Rasengan scales above physicals.
We know V2 is his go to form against Minato as his very first encounter he was in V2, considering his statement of it being his top speed.
And then the next time he attacked Minato he was again using his top speed AKA V2
Standard assumption on this wiki is if you're stronger than someone your AP scales above them.
Hashirama and Madara weren't always meant to be as strong as they are. Remember Hiruzen being considered the strongest Hokage? Yeahhhhhhhh.
There are way more vague AP feats than that in many of the sandboxes.
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In terms of actual AP we don't have any direct feats of how it compares to Minato's physicals. For all we know if Minato had stood there, A's fist would have taken his head clean off.
Minato's overall skillset or jutsu could be superior to A, but I don't see any evidence that his striking strength has to be comparable.
And Obito's striking strength being comparable to V2 A based on this is extremely tenuous; seeing as he didn't even manage to strike Minato. At best you can argue he blocked his swinging arm which could be durability, and he gripped his arm for a brief span of time which could be considered lifting strength.
But his actual AP is in doubt here.
They could be called out then.
As for Obito, considering how bad his performance was against Minato I'm more in favor of an Unknown rating for him.
MinatoSparkle
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We have statements though. That's where his possibly High 7-A+ comes from.
Obito isn't flat out comparable to V2 Ay, he's at least Base Naruto level, at most V2 Ay level.
Two people clashing and meeting in the middle is a show of relative AP.
I don't think they're bad reasoning though, I think those and this are reasonable.
He wasn't on Minato's level, but he wasn't glaringly inferior or anything. He obviously left enough of an impression for Minato to think he had to give up his life.
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That's what we had in the sandbox before, but we're mostly taking about his key for when he fought Minato.
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- Thread starter
- #877
He scales to that in his second key. The discussion is about his first key.
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Isn't Minato a sensory ninja? Wouldn't he be able to sense Obito's power?
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Yeah, he is.
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