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Sans vs Krillin

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Firstly, Krillin has been shown to open with Kienzans in a fight before, so I dont know why people are making the unga-bunga claim of "he starts with punches and kicks1!11!!"
Again, Krillin won't do that in character nor will he have time to react to Sans first attack
Why? Krillin is fighting an enemy in a deserted city, while all the monsters are under lockdown and stated to be in a safe place that Chara could never reach. Even if this was a factor, it's up for scrutiny and discussion as to Krillin will actually care at all regardless of "being in character". If you want to know what Krillin is going to do in character, he's very likely going to call Sans something along lines of 'suspicious' and be on his guard.

In any case, putting a 2-C enemy against a 9-B is going to entail complete destruction of the battlefield with what Krillin has at his disposal.

Krillin has also dodged things that were near point-blank, even under dire circumstances such as being caught in Guldo's time freeze at the last second. He's dodged projectiles for most of his life at this point in the series. There's no evidence to suggest he cant do the same with bones and gaster blasters. He'll be flying regardless unless weighed down by BLUE, if it'll ever come to Sans using that off the bat.

And lastly, Reaction speed is also equalized under the same speed multipier as part of speed equalization rules, so please quit fluffing things with"""Krillin wont have time to react""". You've presented nothing to support this in any case beyond making superficial statements deeming it so. I'm tired of throwing the rulebook at people.
Sans only showed going for the kill while Krillin didn't
What?

Goku getting shot by a bullet with that so called barrier be like;
You've either taken this out of context or are conflating being grazed by a bullet with being shot. There's a distinction. This is also a false comparison and another moot take unrelated to this incredibly one-sided fight. Goku has a track record for being incredibly careless on two major occassions in Super.

And to make it worse, Krillin is a ton less experienced compared to Goku black, Cell, Frieza and even Goku
You're waaaaaay off base here. Nobody's really debating that at all. The ironic part here is that he does scale higher to Goku Black and Cell in the key being used here, but not higher than Frieza. I feel like you're tossing names to make some arbitrary point here.

As for the "less experienced" part, He's tactical enough to nearly eliminate SSJ Goku in a Pre-ToP training match. Goku didn't realize what had happened until Krillin elaborated. The same Goku who is a key shy of his 1st UI-Omen Key.

I don't know if you're implying that Sans is just as experienced as the characters you mentioned, but this is clearly another fluff claim made with no foundation.
He would certainly die by time trickery
You can refer to the Guldo feat that I linked above. Sans' timestop is also marked as "Likely". The section for his 'Timestop' also purposefully uses the words "Seemingly" and "which matches aesthetically", because it is uncertain if this feat is' """"timestop"""". It can be interpreted as them having a private conversation, with the change in atmosphere made for cinematic and/or dramatic purpose to change narrative tone from casual to serious. More importantly, it is never specified.

As for Papyrus' claims made here regarding it, we haven't seen the scope of what they are beyond Teleportation and Traveling to new timelines. This is evidence, but not concrete enough to warrant a solid Timestop rating for Sans. At most, the instances he instantly disappears and reappears is verified as Teleportation on himself and others, which is distinguishably different from Timestop.

If Sans does have a solid Timestop rating, this would be a stomp for Sans. If Sans does mete out a win, It also can't be added to his page due to speed equalization rules-- and Timestop being determined as an infinite speed amplification in an SE match. This is where things get messy.

Krillin wouldn't use it as a starting move ever. And it would need to be pretty early in the fight to be relevant.
Krillin doesn't need to use the Solar Flare. And there's no spin for Sans enduring a 2-C Ki-Blast AoE when he's going to be sprayed with 2-C Danmaku AoE. If he did use it, he would do so in a bind. But it's not ever going to come to that due to the overwhelming power gap here.


Teleport will give Sans the Range advantage
No, it won't. Sans is working with one dimension of mobility here and is working with range in "hundreds of meters", whereas Krillin can simply fly and spray Multiversal Range AoE's. Once the walls of the Last Corridor are evicerated, Sans' bones won't have enough range to reach Krillin once he starts flying. San's only outlet of attack at that point attack will be Gaster Blasters.

I'm voting Krillin FRA. Sans is not going to have any footing once the fight begins, and has a greater range to deal with San's Teleportation than Sans can avoid.
 
If someone trow me to the ground, a assumption that i would take is that a attack is coming from below. Is reasonable to say he should expect a attack coming from below him.
no? the most likely assumption is that he will follow up with another attack, to say that krillin will expect one from bellow, when he would not even expect to be trowed down in the first place, is really a straw, specially when most people that he fought attacks by trowing an attack themselves instead of summoning out of nowhere from the ground

Oh.

Not really, he can still move while trowing ki Blast at Sans, every competent fighter in Dragon Ball can do that. Like, attack energy while moving out the way.
and this doesn't cover any of what i said, he would need to stop to look at sans, not physically stoping, but stopping looking at the attacks to dodge and instead look at sans to aim and trow, which will be fatal if even 1 attacks hits him

Ok, but what about his not expecting to Krillin suddenly flashing him? If he could react, is still a Light that comes out nowhere, is most likely that he not gonna be able to avoid since they are pretty close from each other. I not saying he can't avoid It, i saying is most likely he won't be able to avoid a sudden flash of light.
if he notices the light and if it reaches him, he can just do all i have described to escape regardless, solar flare is really not as OP and you are trying to sell it

You talking about the infinity turn thing? Because uses that like, final move. And he can't even act while doing so.
yeah he can't, but he can rest, think of something to do, and then undo it with an attack

I guess, but is pretty unliky due to the lack of him using.
it is as unlikely as krillin imediatly using the solar flare in the first sight of danger

But again, is a flash of light, just having 2x reaction speed not gonna be enough, he can get blind by It since he still not expecting.
why not? the light is as fast as krillin, who is 2x slower than sans' reactions, why wouldn't it be enough?

You know Sans can sweat right? Which you need skin to do so?
and that debunks the fact that he doesn't have a retina how?

Or that he can bleed?
you mean the ketchup? monster do not have blood

And by that logic, he should't have a tongue
yeah, hence why he doesn't

, thus not able to actually talk so good as he does
grilby is made of fire and the rocks do not have month yet they can talk, they are magical beings

, i don't think Sans follow any type of logic.
still don't see an argument that he has an retina to be blinded by light, such a thing is noted in the Inorganic physiology page
 
no bro
sans beat goku
so krillin cant beat sans
This is terrible, TERRIBLE logic.

Krillin is an Earthling that HAS to be more cautious within his setting because he is ALWAYS fighting above his weight class. Yet he nearly outsmarted Goku twice and literally made a punk out of Gohan in a single episode (DBS 84). There's a difference between Krillin not having the skill to beat somebody and Krillin not having the power to.
 
no bro
sans beat goku
so krillin cant beat sans
If you want to say that, please note that when Grace ended, zero DB fans are in that thread, so there's zero oposition in that thread regarding Sans winning.

Is simply not the same here.
 
Me, fixing to be shit on by 10 undertale bros
NDBhzF9.jpg
 
snip
Krillin doesn't need to use the Solar Flare. And there's no spin for Sans enduring a 2-C Ki-Blast AoE when he's going to be sprayed with 2-C Danmaku AoE. If he did use it, he would do so in a bind. But it's not ever going to come to that due to the overwhelming power gap here.
Ah yes because that's what Krillin does in-character and what he would do before he gets thrown into a group of bones that will kill him extremely quickly.
 
If you want to say that, please note that when Grace ended, zero DB fans are in that thread, so there's zero oposition in that thread regarding Sans winning.

Is simply not the same here.
0 db fans in that thread coz they knew sans would win lool
 
Me, fixing to be shit on by 10 undertale bros
NDBhzF9.jpg
If Krillin had more viable wincons I'd vote him, but realistically speaking he just doesn't. It's barely incon at best, and if not incon, then it goes to Sans. We've gone over these points before, and they always revolve around a specific scenario.
 
Ig we should remove all of DIO's vs matches then loool
Any speed equalized match, in which a major reason a character loses is due to having a disadvantage against some speed value they usually wouldn't have a disadvantage against, may not be added to profiles.
As a result, winning a speed equalized match against a faster opponent due to a speed boost so large that it blitzes the opponent will not be added.

And time stop is considered an infinite speed amplification.
 
Any speed equalized match, in which a major reason a character loses is due to having a disadvantage against some speed value they usually wouldn't have a disadvantage against, may not be added to profiles.
As a result, winning a speed equalized match against a faster opponent due to a speed boost so large that it blitzes the opponent will not be added.

And time stop is considered an infinite speed amplification.
ok so you admit sans stomps krillin via speed, time stuff
good
 
I voted incon anyways Quib.



What?
tf do you mean "what"

the speed = page says time stop COULD be an infinite speed amp
time stop for certain characters give an infinite speed amp but we don't know if that applies to sans

supporters can answer that
 
Firstly, Krillin has been shown to open with Kienzans in a fight before, so I dont know why people are making the unga-bunga claim of "he starts with punches and kicks1!11!!"
in this case Sans will start no matter what due to his law manip

Why? Krillin is fighting an enemy in a deserted city, while all the monsters are under lockdown and stated to be in a safe place that Chara could never reach. Even if this was a factor, it's up for scrutiny and discussion as to Krillin will actually care at all regardless of "being in character". If you want to know what Krillin is going to do in character, he's very likely going to call Sans something along lines of 'suspicious' and be on his guard.
he still wouldn't go for the kill, because he simply is a good guy who doesn't do that

Krillin has also dodged things that were near point-blank, even under dire circumstances such as being caught in Guldo's time freeze at the last second. He's dodged projectiles for most of his life at this point in the series. There's no evidence to suggest he cant do the same with bones and gaster blasters. He'll be flying regardless unless weighed down by BLUE, if it'll ever come to Sans using that off the bat.
you mean the same guldo who is so slow in comparison to him that he couldn't keep up with their movements at all? yeah, no shot that he could have dodge it, in this case the blasts would be 2x his own speed coming from numerous directions he wouldn't be seeing

And lastly, Reaction speed is also equalized under the same speed multipier as part of speed equalization rules, so please quit fluffing things with"""Krillin wont have time to react""". You've presented nothing to support this in any case beyond making superficial statements deeming it so. I'm tired of throwing the rulebook at people.
"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc."
the combat speed of the fastest character is equalized to the combat speed of the slower one, the reactions are reduced by the same ammount, aka sans still has 2x reaction speed advantaged

does he have experience with danmaku 2x faster than himself tho? while also constantly getting teleported, time stopped and dying within 3 seconds of being in any of the attacks?

You can refer to the Guldo feat that I linked above. Sans' timestop is also marked as "Likely". The section for his 'Timestop' also purposefully uses the words "Seemingly" and "which matches aesthetically", because it is uncertain if this feat is' """"timestop"""". It can be interpreted as them having a private conversation, with the change in atmosphere made for cinematic and/or dramatic purpose to change narrative tone from casual to serious. More importantly, it is never specified.

As for Papyrus' claims made here regarding it, we haven't seen the scope of what they are beyond Teleportation and Traveling to new timelines. This is evidence, but not concrete enough to warrant a solid Timestop rating for Sans. At most, the instances he instantly disappears and reappears is verified as Teleportation on himself and others, which is distinguishably different from Timestop.
unless you make a thread removing it, then it makes no sense to complain about it here

f Sans does have a solid Timestop rating, this would be a stomp for Sans. If Sans does mete out a win, It also can't be added to his page due to speed equalization rules-- and Timestop being determined as an infinite speed amplification in an SE match. This is where things get messy.
read the rule please, krillin doesn't normally bypass time stop with speed, aka this can still be added as it says in the very rule you are linking

Krillin doesn't need to use the Solar Flare. And there's no spin for Sans enduring a 2-C Ki-Blast AoE
when has krillin ever used a 2-C ranged AOE attack? he can, but when has he?

when he's going to be sprayed with 2-C Danmaku AoE.
again, he doesn't do that in character, and sans' law manip makes him attack krillin while he is doing the action of thinking about doing any action at all

If he did use it, he would do so in a bind. But it's not ever going to come to that due to the overwhelming power gap here.
how does power gap matters for someone who can kill you in 3 seconds with his first attack?

No, it won't. Sans is working with one dimension of mobility here and is working with range in "hundreds of meters", whereas Krillin can simply fly
Soul based TK to bring him to the ground so that he couldn't fly, also sans will have the first move no matter what due to his law manip

and spray Multiversal Range AoE's.
again, show him ever doing this to argue that he would do so at the start

Once the walls of the Last Corridor are evicerated, Sans' bones won't have enough range to reach Krillin once he starts flying. San's only outlet of attack at that point attack will be Gaster Blasters.
Soul TK and teleport krillin himself down, also when has krillin ever resourted to immediatly nuke the area just.....because?

I'm voting Krillin FRA. Sans is not going to have any footing once the fight begins, and has a greater range to deal with San's Teleportation than Sans can avoid.
don't forget that his law manip will make him have the first move no matter what while also attacking krillin while he is choosing what to do
 
The only way it wouldn't be one is if Sans can't move as well. If Sans can more and the other opponent can it would be an infinite speed boost indirectly. Sth like what Kumagawa did.
 
The only way it wouldn't be one is if Sans can't move as well. If Sans can more and the other opponent can it would be an infinite speed boost indirectly. Sth like what Kumagawa did.
thats like saying DIO's time stop is an infinite speed boost man
 
he still wouldn't go for the kill, because he simply is a good guy who doesn't do that
He went for the kill with anyone he fought with not in a tournament or sparing with a friend. Frieza mooks for example and was prepared to eliminate an entire universe to save his own.

thats like saying DIO's time stop is an infinite speed boost man

What is speed? How is it calculated?
 
Any speed equalized match, in which a major reason a character loses is due to having a disadvantage against some speed value they usually wouldn't have a disadvantage against, may not be added to profiles.
As a result, winning a speed equalized match against a faster opponent due to a speed boost so large that it blitzes the opponent will not be added.

And time stop is considered an infinite speed amplification.
  • While time stop, which could be viewed as an infinite speed amplification, is assumed to work even on characters that would usually bypass it via speed, those matches can likewise not be added.
No, it is only valid for speed values that naturally bypasses time stop, which isn't the case here at all
 
He went for the kill with anyone he fought with not in a tournament or sparing with a friend.
the freeza mooks that he didn't kill at the start? also i refer to you to all the criminals he fought dayly as a police officer, if he choose to be a police officer, then of course he would be againt killing, since that is a rule a police officer must promise to keep

Frieza mooks for example
show me a clip of him insta killing them

and was prepared to eliminate an entire universe to save his own.
you mean when he knew he would be erased if he didn't and that he had the prize to bring them back anyway? yeah what of it?
 
the freeza mooks that he didn't kill at the start? also i refer to you to all the criminals he fought dayly as a police officer, if he choose to be a police officer, then of course he would be againt killing, since that is a rule a police officer must promise to keep

He isn't a police officer here? Sans isn't one of his citizens?

show me a clip of him insta killing them
They were literally scared and he still killed them. He wasn't even neutral that was straight up bad.

you mean when he knew he would be erased if he didn't and that he had the prize to bring them back anyway? yeah what of it?
And here he also knows something bad is going to happen if he loses.

Each character will view their opponents as enemies, who they have to assume wish to cause them severe harm such that losing could have any range of dire consequences. The characters will assume their opponents have not been forced into battle. They are assumed to have decided from free will to fight and are not excused by a just cause, difficult times or otherwise exonerating circumstances. Furthermore, the situation is assumed one where the opponents are not protected by social norms or consequences, such as being a civilian protected by law.

Just stop with that argument.
 
He isn't a police officer here? Sans isn't one of his citizens?
you know that i was talking about his overall morality right?

They were literally scared and he still killed them. He wasn't even neutral that was straight up bad.
will you show me a clip like i asked or...?

And here he also knows something bad is going to happen if he loses.
define "something bad"

Each character will view their opponents as enemies, who they have to assume wish to cause them severe harm such that losing could have any range of dire consequences. The characters will assume their opponents have not been forced into battle. They are assumed to have decided from free will to fight and are not excused by a just cause, difficult times or otherwise exonerating circumstances. Furthermore, the situation is assumed one where the opponents are not protected by social norms or consequences, such as being a civilian protected by law.

Just stop with that argument.
yeah, define "something bad" because ToP's case is really not a standard "bad thing" it is very specific
 
you know that i was talking about his overall morality right?
Which outside of his friends and harmless citizens seems to be kill on sight even if incapable of retaliation?

will you show me a clip like i asked or...?


Sorry for the shaking.

youtube.com/watch?v=kyEmOaCat-s

Here is the continuation.

define "something bad"
It says severe harm. Prove that Krillin would just be gentle to someone in which losing to him is gonna cause severe harm and he already views him as an enemy.

Like you may go with the argument if you want. I just think there are better ones.
 
Which outside of his friends and harmless citizens seems to be kill on sight even if incapable of retaliation?
will you show me a link of krillin ever doing this? because for him sans is as weak as the mooks he arrests everyday, so he would treat him as such in first sight



Sorry for the shaking.

don't see any of them dying, they are just getting blasted

youtube.com/watch?v=kyEmOaCat-s

Here is the continuation.
that is the Movie and not the anime, so it isn't the continuation

It says severe harm. Prove that Krillin would just be gentle to someone in which losing to him is gonna cause severe harm and he already views him as an enemy.
don't strawman me, when have i said that he would be gentle? he just wouldn't imediatly go to kill without any reason, specially when master roshi teached him to not do that in oposition to Tsuru, since killing is against the Turtle school training

Like you may go with the argument if you want. I just think there are better ones.
at least i have one, you are saying that krillin would imediatly go for the kill on sight without showing any proof of that at all
 
no? the most likely assumption is that he will follow up with another attack, to say that krillin will expect one from bellow, when he would not even expect to be trowed down in the first place, is really a straw,
Why trought? If you trow to the ground, a reasonable assumption would be that the next attack gonna be coming from the ground too, since you opponent trow you in the ground. I guess you could argue that he can also expect a attack coming from above trought, but is kinda iffy on that? As i said, Krillin method of dodging is jumping, so is more likely of him doing that to escape.
specially when most people that he fought attacks by trowing an attack themselves instead of summoning out of nowhere from the ground
I guess, but like he can see Sans moving his arms up when summoning his bones, so assuming that the next attack gonna come from below is reasonable.

But also i don't think we gonna agree on that, since we pretty much going to be in circles now if we continue, like i probally gonna disagree with you next argument.
and this doesn't cover any of what i said, he would need to stop to look at sans, not physically stoping, but stopping looking at the attacks to dodge and instead look at sans to aim and trow, which will be fatal if even 1 attacks hits him
Ok, i don't think that matters, since he could pretty much can just remember the placement of the bones, and attack Sans after. Like "Ok this bones are coming from my right, i gonna dp this movent to evade them, and attack the guy"
Or
Since Krillin can sense Ki, he don't exactly need to stop looking at the attacks, he can just aim where Sans Ki is and attack while still keeping a eye on the bones.
if he notices the light and if it reaches him, he can just do all i have described to escape regardless, solar flare is really not as OP and you are trying to sell it
If he noticed the light, he gonna get blind.
Like, that's the problem, if he look at the light, he gonna get blind.
yeah he can't, but he can rest, think of something to do, and then undo it with an attack
And risk Krillin being prepared now?
it is as unlikely as krillin imediatly using the solar flare in the first sight of danger
Not really, he does when he is cornered, like with Freeza,Dodoria or Cell.
Unlike Sans, who hardly uses it to actually dodge.
why not? the light is as fast as krillin, who is 2x slower than sans' reactions, why wouldn't it be enough?
Because is just 2x, is not THAT fast.
and that debunks the fact that he doesn't have a retina how?
Do you have any proof that he don't have a retina?
I actually very dumb to not ask this question first.
you mean the ketchup? monster do not have blood

yeah, hence why he doesn't

grilby is made of fire and the rocks do not have month yet they can talk, they are magical beings

still don't see an argument that he has an retina to be blinded by light, such a thing is noted in the Inorganic physiology page
You probally trolling me, like you seriously don't undestand where i coming with my argument?
 
will you show me a link of krillin ever doing this? because for him sans is as weak as the mooks he arrests everyday, so he would treat him as such in first sight
Each character will view their opponents as enemies, who they have to assume wish to cause them severe harm such that losing could have any range of dire consequences. He sees him as an enemy.

don't see any of them dying, they are just getting blasted

Yeah just saw the episode. I can neither confirm nor deny that he killed them.

that is the Movie and not the anime, so it isn't the continuation
Frick me so that's why it looked so good. Nice one I will give you that.
 
As per SBA (ninja'd by Sherlock):
Each character will view their opponents as enemies, who they have to assume wish to cause them severe harm such that losing could have any range of dire consequences.
I'm pretty sure in any scenario where this sort of thing happens, Krillin is more than willing to kill. Just because Krillin doesn't explicitly eviscerate on-screen fodder with his attacks doesn't mean Krillin isn't gonna try and kill Sans here. One of his trademark techniques is a lethal spinning sawblade of ki
 
As per SBA (ninja'd by Sherlock):

I'm pretty sure in any scenario where this sort of thing happens, Krillin is more than willing to kill. Just because Krillin doesn't explicitly eviscerate on-screen fodder with his attacks doesn't mean Krillin isn't gonna try and kill Sans here. One of his trademark techniques is a lethal spinning database of no.

Yeah that's what I mean and why it's a weird claim. I mean sure Krillin isn't exactly a killer but nowadays noone besides vegeta is and he barely is but why would he not kill him. They are enemies.
 
Why trought? If you trow to the ground, a reasonable assumption would be that the next attack gonna be coming from the ground too, since you opponent trow you in the ground. I guess you could argue that he can also expect a attack coming from above trought, but is kinda iffy on that? As i said, Krillin method of dodging is jumping, so is more likely of him doing that to escape.
why would he assume that he could even attack from the ground immediately after trowing him in the ground?

I guess, but like he can see Sans moving his arms up when summoning his bones, so assuming that the next attack gonna come from below is reasonable.
sans doesn't need to move to summon the bones at all

But also i don't think we gonna agree on that, since we pretty much going to be in circles now if we continue, like i probally gonna disagree with you next argument.
fair enough

Ok, i don't think that matters, since he could pretty much can just remember the placement of the bones, and attack Sans after. Like "Ok this bones are coming from my right, i gonna dp this movent to evade them, and attack the guy"
what about the bones bones from the other side as well? or the faster blasters coming from the other directions? also sans' law manip makes it so that he CAN'T attack while sans is doing so

Or
Since Krillin can sense Ki, he don't exactly need to stop looking at the attacks, he can just aim where Sans Ki is and attack while still keeping a eye on the bones.
well he also has to deal with the blasters that are 2x faster than himself

If he noticed the light, he gonna get blind.
Like, that's the problem, if he look at the light, he gonna get blind.
or he can react to it and block the light

And risk Krillin being prepared now?
considering that he would be the one to decide when to attack and that he can do so with a rapid fire 2x faster than him blasts........yeah

Not really, he does when he is cornered, like with Freeza,Dodoria or Cell.
Unlike Sans, who hardly uses it to actually dodge.
could you show me when he has done it in a fight after the first attack the opponent gave him?

Because is just 2x, is not THAT fast.
more than enough for him to react to it and defend against it

Do you have any proof that he don't have a retina?
I actually very dumb to not ask this question first.
......so, he is a skeleton, he doesn't have anything but Bones, you would need meat to have a retina

You probally trolling me, like you seriously don't undestand where i coming with my argument?
No i am not, do you know what Inorganic Physiology is?

11.png
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13.png


Btw, i not remember where Master Hoshi ever teach them that, can you post the chapter?
don't see him killing them there
 
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