Sans vs Krillin

[Omegabronic]

Dude he is a hypersonic character. 2 seconds is literally half an hour to him.

it is 2 seconds in the perspective of a hypersonic character

I think you kinda oversmating Sans first move.

Like, his first action is trowing you on the ground and attacking with bones from the ground, in which he also take the Soul gravity out you.
Krillin can totally dodge that, and make his next move

krillin's first instinct would likely be to fly up, which he wouldn't be able to do, besides that he wouldn't know that there would be a wall of bones coming up, and he would still be on the ground when they start going up, if they do as much as touch any part of his body he would be dead in seconds, besides even if he dodges this one, what about all the other bones and blasters 2x faster than himself? to say that he will perfect dodge all of it first try is a really big reach

 

[RinneItachi]

I ain't readin' allat but what's the current status? After further deliberation I'm feeling more agreeable on incon.

What Sans is going to do is very cut and dry, but what Krillin does is what overall decides the match. Many moves or choices Krillin makes WILL lead to his death, but there are other, specific decisions he could make that would net him a win that are not entirely out-of-reach, though what I consider unlikely as a Dragon Ball fan that is very acquainted with the character.

Nonetheless, there is heavy support on both sides, and it seems like the thread is gonna be drawn on way longer than it has to over a very obvious incon. Like, if it's THIS hard to come to an agreement, that should suggest an incon pretty much by default. Both sides have viable wincons, and that makes the decision clear to me.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

it is 2 seconds in the perspective of a hypersonic character


krillin's first instinct would likely be to fly up, which he wouldn't be able to do, besides that he wouldn't know that there would be a wall of bones coming up, and he would still be on the ground when they start going up, if they do as much as touch any part of his body he would be dead in seconds, besides even if he dodges this one, what about all the other bones and blasters 2x faster than himself? to say that he will perfect dodge all of it first try is a really big reach

If we consider they have ki it would work. If it's just magic then yeah.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I ain't readin' allat but what's the current status? After further deliberation I'm feeling more agreeable on incon.

What Sans is going to do is very cut and dry, but what Krillin does is what overall decides the match. Many moves or choices Krillin makes WILL lead to his death, but there are other, specific decisions he could make that would net him a win that are not entirely out-of-reach, though what I consider unlikely as a Dragon Ball fan that is very acquainted with the character.

Nonetheless, there is heavy support on both sides, and it seems like the thread is gonna be drawn on way longer than it has to over a very obvious incon. Like, if it's THIS hard to come to an agreement, that should suggest an incon pretty much by default. Both sides have viable wincons, and that makes the decision clear to me.

I think it's actually in favor of Sans by some votes.

 

[RinneItachi]

I think it's actually in favor of Sans by some votes.

Yeah I just checked above. So Sans is probably still going to win the thread but not without a fight. It's like the first half of the thread was phase 1, then in intermission phase a bunch of people joined in, and now we're in phase 2 and he be time stoppin' all over the place

 

[Omegabronic]

If we consider they have ki it would work. If it's just magic then yeah.

........my dude, are you okay? i really can't see any connection of what you just said and what i said

 

[RinneItachi]

Krillin can totally dodge that, and make his next move.

Yes, he CAN. That doesn't mean he would.

Realistically speaking, Krillin would try to fly without being able to, and would be shocked at his inability to, and would then also be shocked at bones coming out of the floor, and he would most likely just kind of try to tank the bones, suffer excruciating agony, and likely die, or if he's lucky he might barely escape, and then who knows what might happens with the rest of Sans' first attack, Krillin isn't going to have the breathing room to muster an AoE Ki blast until that attack is over. He COULD dodge in time, but Krillin's first instinct being to simply jump over regular looking bones coming out of the floor after he was forced by the weight of his soul down onto it, is not very realistic if you ask me.

Which is why Sans or incon is most reasonable. Even if we're being nice to Krillin, in no reasonable argument is Krillin getting a guaranteed win here, he has wincons, but they are not concrete, period.

 

[Fezzih_007]

krillin's first instinct would likely be to fly up

Would he? Most of the fight he participated, i feel like the most things he does is jump to actually dodge attacks, i don't think he is that reliant in flying.

besides that he wouldn't know that there would be a wall of bones coming up,

You know he can just look behind right? It depends on the position of his jump, but he would be able to see If he looo behind.

and he would still be on the ground when they start going up, if they do as much as touch any part of his body he would be dead in seconds, besides even if he dodges this one, what about all the other bones and blasters 2x faster than himself? to say that he will perfect dodge all of it first try is a really big reach

ok, but you assuming Krillin not gonna trow any attack in the timeframe, like they start 10 meters apart, Sans is not that Far away from Krillin not to risk a attack.
In which, i propose a Solar Flare to blind Sans, since is the best option in that situation.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Yes, he CAN. That doesn't mean he would.

Realistically speaking, Krillin would try to fly without being able to, and would be shocked at his inability to, and would then also be shocked at bones coming out of the floor, and he would most likely just kind of try to tank the bones, suffer excruciating agony, and likely die, or if he's lucky he might barely escape, and then who knows what might happens with the rest of Sans' first attack, Krillin isn't going to have the breathing room to muster an AoE Ki blast until that attack is over. He COULD dodge in time, but Krillin's first instinct being to simply jump over regular looking bones coming out of the floor after he was forced by the weight of his soul down onto it, is not very realistic if you ask me.

Which is why Sans or incon is most reasonable. Even if we're being nice to Krillin, in no reasonable argument is Krillin getting a guaranteed win here, he has wincons, but they are not concrete, period.

Which is why my stance is incon.

 

[Omegabronic]

Would he? Most of the fight he participated, i feel like the most things he does is jump to actually dodge attacks, i don't think he is that reliant in flying.

that is basically how all fights he was in after he learned how to fly went.....with him flying firstly

You know he can just look behind right? It depends on the position of his jump, but he would be able to see If he looo behind.

i am talking about the wall that comes from the ground out of nowhere that he couldn't know it was coming from bellow

ok, but you assuming Krillin not gonna trow any attack in the timeframe, like they start 10 meters apart, Sans is not that Far away from Krillin not to risk a attack.

if he stops to trow an attack he will likely be hit by one of sans' in coming attacks, besides sans can just dodge, or teleport, or stop time to completely avoid it

In which, i propose a Solar Flare to blind Sans, since is the best option in that situation.

and what stops sans from dodging it? or blocking his eyes with one of his blasters, or even then sans doesn't really have eyes or a neural system like that of a human, i don't see how a flash would even blind him tbh

 

[RinneItachi]

Counter argument; I just almost beat the Sans fight but died to the loop-Blaster attack at the very end, so Sans wins.

 

[RinneItachi]

Anyways, with how many wins Sans keeps stacking, the quotation on his page should just be changed to "huh. always wondered why people never use their strongest attack first." at this point.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Anyways, with how many wins Sans keeps stacking, the quotation on his page should just be changed to "huh. always wondered why people never use their strongest attack first." at this point.

We are literally going for a 6 page thread because of KRILLIN while goku only needed 3

Think about that

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Just don't do piccolo.

 

[Fezzih_007]

that is basically how all fights he was in after he learned how to fly went.....with him flying firstly

Ok no, he start jumping first, he fly when he already in the air.

i am talking about the wall that comes from the ground out of nowhere that he couldn't know it was coming from bellow

You mean when he spares you?

if he stops to trow an attack he will likely be hit by one of sans' in coming attacks,

He don't need to stop, he can still attack while moving.

besides sans can just dodge,

Sure, but Krillin ki Blast have AoE so him getting caught is likely

or teleport,

Hm? But he don't use telerport to dodge attacks? Well, i guess he could telerport Krillin, but is pretty unlike of him doing in his first phase.
Well, he could telerport i guess, there's is a chance.

or stop time to completely avoid it

Ok, but he just timestop to set up attack.

and what stops sans from dodging it? or blocking his eyes with one of his blasters,

He not expecting the flash? The thing happens very fast, so there's chance of him getting caught of guard, even with higher reaction speed.

or even then sans doesn't really have eyes or a neural system like that of a human, i don't see how a flash would even blind him tbh

...
How exactly that stop Sans before of doing things that Human can do?

Just don't do piccolo.

No.

Anyways, with how many wins Sans keeps stacking, the quotation on his page should just be changed to "huh. always wondered why people never use their strongest attack first." at this point.

That's actually a good Idea.

 

[RinneItachi]

We are literally going for a 6 page thread because of KRILLIN while goku only needed 3

Think about that

Great moment for the "I sleep. Real shit?" meme.

 

[RinneItachi]

Just don't do piccolo.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Oh yeah, Krillin definitely relies on jumping than flying in most situations.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Nah piccolo has tk and attacks immediately.

 

[RinneItachi]

You mean when he spares you?

I think you're confused. When Sans starts his fight, he slams you into the bottom of the battle box, and then bones come out from underneath you. Afterwards, a wave of bones comes in from the left side of the screen.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Great moment for the "I sleep. Real shit?" meme.

Fr

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

6 pagess

 

[RinneItachi]

We making it to 10.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Why does Whis win?

 

[RinneItachi]

Why does Whis win?

Lil' bro

 

[RinneItachi]

Sans beating Whis is outright impossible. Ignoring that Whis would not get touched and could kill Sans by looking at him funny, Angel's cannot be killed by any conventional means and the only way to kill them is through existence erasure, namely the Grand Priest and Zeno, meaning that Sans soul hax is worthless.

 

[Omegabronic]

Ok no, he start jumping first, he fly when he already in the air.

Well, even so, he would need to know that he has to do that, which he can't since he wouldn't know that a wall of bones would come from bellow

You mean when he spares you?

His first attack

He don't need to stop, he can still attack while moving.

He needs to stop, think, see and theb attack sans, but if he stops paying attention to the attacks that are coming even for 1 second he will likely die

Sure, but Krillin ki Blast have AoE so him getting caught is likely

time stop and teleport to avoid it, or using his law manip to make krillin unable to act all together

Ok, but he just timestop to set up attack.

Logically if he needs it and can't dodge otherwise he will use it to dodge

He not expecting the flash? The thing happens very fast, so there's chance of him getting caught of guard, even with higher reaction speed.

the solar flare is not currently accepted as faster than krillins normal attacks, besides sans has 2x his own reaction speed, so he has plenty of time to counter it

...
How exactly that stop Sans before of doing things that Human can do?

My dude, no retina to burn means that he would not suffer from intense light like a normal biological being would, that is basic logic

 

[RinneItachi]

Fodder Ball verse still gets cleared by Chara or Asriel though so we all good.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Fodder Ball verse still gets cleared by Chara or Asriel though so we all good.

Man is speaking fax

 

[RinneItachi]

Man is speaking fax

Not to derail but on g the amount of people in YouTube comments I have seen that still think Chara is just a creepy kid with a knife is genuinely unbelievable.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Sans beating Whis is outright impossible. Ignoring that Whis would not get touched and could kill Sans by looking at him funny, Angel's cannot be killed by any conventional means and the only way to kill them is through existence erasure, namely the Grand Priest and Zeno, meaning that Sans soul hax is worthless.

I have disagreements with that. If soul hax doesn't exist in dragonball how would we know it won't work? Also why would he not get touched by the tk hax.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Je suis monté

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Not to derail but on g the amount of people in YouTube comments I have seen that still think Chara is just a creepy kid with a knife is genuinely unbelievable.

Wut? There are people who think that?

 

[RinneItachi]

I have disagreements with that. If soul hax doesn't exist in dragonball how would we know it won't work? Also why would he not get touched by the tk hax.

I thought it did but I guess I misremembered. Still, Angel's are literally unbound by the concept of death. Death doesn't apply to them, they can only die if they are entirely erased from existence. Destroying their body or soul wouldn't kill them, but whether or not they would heal from it is unknown. He would get effected by soul TK, but it wouldn't matter.

Wut? There are people who think that?

Many people. Actually, probably the majority of people that "know" about Chara in general. Most people I've seen in YouTube comment sections believe Undertale is a hyper-fodder verse that can get solo'd by regular human children. Someone even argued that God Asriel is above average human level because he "has the power of 7 kids". Then you have other people wanking Undertale to outerverse level somehow. But there are occasionally some rational and logical people.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Many people. Actually, probably the majority of people that "know" about Chara in general. Most people I've seen in YouTube comment sections believe Undertale is a hyper-fodder verse that can get solo'd by regular human children. Someone even argued that God Asriel is above average human level because he "has the power of 7 kids". Then you have other people wanking Undertale to outerverse level somehow. But there are occasionally some rational and logical people.

..... Asriel as average human level is crazy wth

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I thought it did but I guess I misremembered. Still, Angel's are literally unbound by the concept of death. Death doesn't apply to them, they can only die if they are entirely erased from existence. Destroying their body or soul wouldn't kill them, but whether or not they would heal from it is unknown. He would get effected by soul TK, but it wouldn't matter.

How do we know that? How do we suppose it?

 

[RinneItachi]

How do we know that? How do we suppose it?

Because Angel's can literally only die via existence erasure, Whis says it straight up.

But none of this matters because Sans literally cannot hit Whis. Whis has perfect instinctive reactions and is a skill-god, in addition to the insurmountable gap in stats and hax, as well as untold billions of years in experience. Just having soul manipulation and an aggressive fighting style isn't going to save Sans.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Well, even so, he would need to know that he has to do that, which he can't since he wouldn't know that a wall of bones would come from bellow

If someone trow me to the ground, a assumption that i would take is that a attack is coming from below. Is reasonable to say he should expect a attack coming from below him.

His first attack

Ah.

He needs to stop, think, see and theb attack sans, but if he stops paying attention to the attacks that are coming even for 1 second he will likely die

Not really, he can still move while trowing ki Blast at Sans, every competent fighter in Dragon Ball can do that. Like, attack energy while moving out the way.

time stop and teleport to avoid it,

Ok, but what about his not expecting to Krillin suddenly flashing him? If he could react, is still a Light that comes out nowhere, is most likely that he not gonna be able to avoid since they are pretty close from each other. I not saying he can't avoid It, i saying is most likely he won't be able to avoid a sudden flash of light.

or using his law manip to make krillin unable to act all together

You talking about the infinity turn thing? Because uses that like, final move. And he can't even act while doing so.

Logically if he needs it and can't dodge otherwise he will use it to dodge

I guess, but is pretty unliky due to the lack of him using.

the solar flare is not currently accepted as faster than krillins normal attacks, besides sans has 2x his own reaction speed, so he has plenty of time to counter it

But again, is a flash of light, just having 2x reaction speed not gonna be enough, he can get blind by It since he still not expecting.

My dude, no retina to burn means that he would not suffer from intense light like a normal biological being would, that is basic logic

You know Sans can sweat right? Which you need skin to do so? Or that he can bleed? And by that logic, he should't have a tongue, thus not able to actually talk so good as he does, i don't think Sans follow any type of logic.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Because Angel's can literally only die via existence erasure, Whis says it straight up.

But none of this matters because Sans literally cannot hit Whis. Whis has perfect instinctive reactions and is a skill-god, in addition to the insurmountable gap in stats and hax, as well as untold billions of years in experience. Just having soul manipulation and an aggressive fighting style isn't going to save Sans.

I would disagree on that and would also note it as incon.

 

[RinneItachi]

I would disagree on that and would also note it as incon.

Disagree on what and note what as incon? Even if you want to say Whis could be killed by Sans, there is literally no argument for Sans winning. Whis wouldn't get touched by anything Sans has and could kill him with a glance.