Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

So we're just going to ignore thar Zeus says "regardless of the universe, time, era, dimension, etc uou will always be my vessel."??? Sounds like headcanon

Yes, that version of Aiolia was destined to be his avatar (regardless of the universe, time or place where he was), but this does not mean that other versions had that destiny. As I explain the main universe version doesn't have that destiny, even the other version of Aiolia that he killed didn't have that destiny either.

This is a fact, we can even see how Hades can choose a different avatar than Shun in the different universes. For example, the Dark Wing universe where he chose a different avatar and even the god has a completely different personality, it is closer to his version of the myths, where he was not a completely evil or racist god as in the main universe, that is why this version of the character protects the souls in the Underworld and prevented them from being destroyed by moving the souls to Elysium, and in the Underworld of this universe they do not punish all the souls.

In Kurumada Suikoden, the only crossover of this franchise, it is shown that Kurumada's other series (Bt'X, Fūma no Kojirō, Ring ni Kakero, Otoko Zaka, Raimei no Zaji, etc.) are also part of this multiverse and some of these series have their gods completely different from the gods of Saint Seiya.

 

[Rabbit2002]

Maybe DarkWing series is a difference multiverse from the others.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Maybe DarkWing series is a difference multiverse from the others.

It is part of the same multiverse, even chapter 5 has a reference to the main universe, when Aiolos of Dark Wing has visions of the events of the main universe, where he can see an Athena and a group of Saints unknown to him, and the death of Aiolos from that universe.

Spoiler

------------------------------------

 

[Saiyan40009]

is there some new powerful technique episode g or saintia sho

 

[Hasty12345]

is there some new powerful technique episode g or saintia sho

Shura's Excalibur: Ex Machina could separate Zeus from Aiolia, but that didn't end up happening and they destroyed each other (or at least that's what GA led us to believe)

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

is there some new powerful technique episode g or saintia sho

Athena's purifying flame (name used by Yoruhime and Zhu to describe these flames) of Dark Wing are probably the most impressive ability in the latest manga of this franchise.

These flames can eliminate a being from existence.
Page 20
Eito: 安心して眠れ
Eito: 射手座のアイオロス
Eito: その存在も
Eito: その人生も
Eito: その記憶も...
Eito: この世界に遺ることはない
Eito: その死を悲しむ者も悼む者もいないのだから...

Spoiler

The description of Dark Wing chapter 6 on the Akita Shoten website describes that Aiolos was erased from existence in the previous chapter.
存在を消し去られてしまったアイオロス！　謎を追うパンドラ・夜姫の前に、新たな敵が立ちふさがる！

チャンピオンRED 2021年8月号 | 秋田書店

株式会社秋田書店が発行する2021年6月18日に刊行されたチャンピオンRED 2021年8月号の詳細情報です。掲載されていた内容をご確認いただけます。

www.akitashoten.co.jp

Sojiro (Aiolos' disciple) does not remember Aiolos after he was eliminated by those flames and even his name is erased from Sojiro's cell phone.

Spoiler

Yoruhime (Pandora) and Charlotte describe that he was completely eliminated as if he had never existed in the world.

Spoiler

Page 01
☆不穏な気配が...
C:...っ!
Y:どうかした? シャルロット
Y:大きく、強い小宇宙が弾けたのですが...
C:誰か死んだということ?
C:そのはずですが...
Page 02
Y:魂の残滓も
Y:なにもかもが同時に消滅しました
C:まるで
C:元からこの世界にはいなかったかのように...
Y:目覚めて間もない冥闘士が倒されてしまっているのと関係があるのかしら
C:奴子座の聖闘士はなにも知らない様子でした
Y:信用できるの?

The manga that is very likely to be cancelled is the manga that has the best feats of the franchise.

Although this is not new, Kurumada Suikoden had a multiversal plot and an event that threatened to destroy the multiverse (Kuruverse), but it seems that this manga will not return (the last chapter was published in 2020 and had only two pages, and it was only a parody chapter).

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Athena's purifying flame (name used by Yoruhime and Zhu to describe these flames) of Dark Wing are probably the most impressive ability in the latest manga of this franchise.

These flames can eliminate a being from existence.
Page 20
Eito: 安心して眠れ
Eito: 射手座のアイオロス
Eito: その存在も
Eito: その人生も
Eito: その記憶も...
Eito: この世界に遺ることはない
Eito: その死を悲しむ者も悼む者もいないのだから...

Spoiler

The description of Dark Wing chapter 6 on the Akita Shoten website describes that Aiolos was erased from existence in the previous chapter.
存在を消し去られてしまったアイオロス！　謎を追うパンドラ・夜姫の前に、新たな敵が立ちふさがる！

チャンピオンRED 2021年8月号 | 秋田書店

株式会社秋田書店が発行する2021年6月18日に刊行されたチャンピオンRED 2021年8月号の詳細情報です。掲載されていた内容をご確認いただけます。

www.akitashoten.co.jp

Sojiro (Aiolos' disciple) does not remember Aiolos after he was eliminated by those flames and even his name is erased from Sojiro's cell phone.

Spoiler

Yoruhime (Pandora) and Charlotte describe that he was completely eliminated as if he had never existed in the world.

Spoiler

Page 01
☆不穏な気配が...
C:...っ!
Y:どうかした? シャルロット
Y:大きく、強い小宇宙が弾けたのですが...
C:誰か死んだということ?
C:そのはずですが...
Page 02
Y:魂の残滓も
Y:なにもかもが同時に消滅しました
C:まるで
C:元からこの世界にはいなかったかのように...
Y:目覚めて間もない冥闘士が倒されてしまっているのと関係があるのかしら
C:奴子座の聖闘士はなにも知らない様子でした
Y:信用できるの?

The manga that is very likely to be cancelled is the manga that has the best feats of the franchise.

Although this is not new, Kurumada Suikoden had a multiversal plot and an event that threatened to destroy the multiverse (Kuruverse), but it seems that this manga will not return (the last chapter was published in 2020 and had only two pages, and it was only a parody chapter).

What information do you have on kurumada suikoden?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

What information do you have on kurumada suikoden?

The protagonists of Kurumada's manga (Seiya, Teppei, Kojiro, Zaji, etc.) changed the history written by the gods for the multiverse (the original history indicated that they would lose their final battles), so the Divine Scriptures (books written by the gods) try to correct these changes of all space and time, and seek to eliminate the history of all the protagonists so that it returns to the original course written by the gods

In short, Kurumada's protagonists have a resistance to the manipulation of destiny on a multiversal scale and changed the original history of the multiverse. And one of the books is named as Chronicle of the Gods, a book written by unknown gods (probably the gods of the multiverse, in the 21 chapters that were published it is never mentioned which gods wrote these books), where the entire past, present and future of the multiverse is written.

Spoiler

But none of this is important, because the manga has no conclusion and probably never will. The author only published 21 chapters (she started in 2013 and stopped publishing in 2016), then in 2020 she published a special chapter of two-page, and Yun Kōga on Twitter mentions that the manga might return that year, but after almost two years there is no announcement or news about the return of this manga.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Anyone have Hypermyth, or Taizen raws?


because with a specific passage im looking at there is a massive difference between the words "Liberated" and "Created"

One implies they always existed but have been sealed for some reason while the other implies they were made into existence.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Anyone have Hypermyth, or Taizen raws?

because with a specific passage im looking at there is a massive difference between the words "Liberated" and "Created"

One implies they always existed but have been sealed for some reason while the other implies they were made into existence.

Hypermyth has no relevance to the franchise and is non-canon material.

I could only find Taizen in this quality.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Hypermyth has no relevance to the franchise and is non-canon material.

I could only find Taizen in this quality.

i'll see if i ccan make do with that.

i need to find the right page now.

Thank you!!

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

An interesting detail in the Final Edition Vol.4, Kurumada changed almost all the dialogue in this scene.

Spoiler

Page 74
Kiki: ムウ様何人かの聖闘士は自力で脱出したようですが
Kiki: あのまま生き埋めになった者もいるようです
Mu: 仕方ないわたしたちでさえ星矢ひとりを救うので精一杯でしたから
Mu: しかも追手がきます
Kiki: ェ!?
Kiki: うっ?
Kiki: こ...この小宇宙だ
Kiki: 激震を起こしたのはこいつだな

Page 75
Kiki: いけないムウ様!
Kiki: 間もなく追いつかれますよ
Mu: やむをえん話をつけよう
Kiki: はい

Mu does not teleport the Bronze Saints in this scene and only saved Seiya, therefore, the Bronze Saints escaped the collapse on Mount Fuji with their own power.

This scene is not teleportation, and the Bronze Saints are using that pseudo-flight when they travel like shooting stars.

In short, warriors of the level of a Bronze Saint get pseudo-flight.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

An interesting detail in the Final Edition Vol.4, Kurumada changed almost all the dialogue in this scene.

Spoiler

Page 74
Kiki: ムウ様何人かの聖闘士は自力で脱出したようですが
Kiki: あのまま生き埋めになった者もいるようです
Mu: 仕方ないわたしたちでさえ星矢ひとりを救うので精一杯でしたから
Mu: しかも追手がきます
Kiki: ェ!?
Kiki: うっ?
Kiki: こ...この小宇宙だ
Kiki: 激震を起こしたのはこいつだな

Page 75
Kiki: いけないムウ様!
Kiki: 間もなく追いつかれますよ
Mu: やむをえん話をつけよう
Kiki: はい

Mu does not teleport the Bronze Saints in this scene and only saved Seiya, therefore, the Bronze Saints escaped the collapse on Mount Fuji with their own power.

This scene is not teleportation, and the Bronze Saints are using this pseudo-flight when they travel like shooting stars.

In short, warriors of the level of a Bronze Saint get pseudo-flight.

Does it still day misty shook Mount fuji or the entire fuji volcanic chain?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Does it still day misty shook Mount fuji or the entire fuji volcanic chain?

Only the dialogue I described changed in that scene, Misty still shook Mount Fuji.

A change in this scene.

Spoiler

Kiki or Mu says that the sea is split, not just a portion of seawater, and Mu's surprised face changed (the power of a Silver Saint is not impressive to Mu).

Spoiler

K/M: ひえっ
K/M: 巨大な潮柱が!!
K/M: し...しかも海が割て...
K/M: 底から誰かやってくる!!
K/M: あ...ああ!?
K/M: あいつは...っ!?

A minor change for Asterion's Million Ghost Attack.

Spoiler

Now it is mach 3.

Spoiler

Asterion: だがオレのMG(ミリオン・ゴースト)アタックはマッハ3だ到底オレの動きには追いつけぬ

 

[StekFence]

it seems that this new redo Of ss will give some interesting scans

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Medusa Shield was always impressive, soul stealing and petrification is very hax.

Spoiler

Algol: フッフフフ このメドゥサの盾と目が合って生き延びた看はいない
Algol: 誰もがことごとく魂を抜き取られ石になるのだ!

That's why I've always hated Shiori's mediocre treatment of this powerful Saint in TLC. Well, the Silver Saints' participation was mediocre in that manga (even more than in the original manga), but even she gave the same treatment to one of the most dangerous and powerful Saints. A Silver Saint who could easily defeat several Specters, even members of the Specter elite if they fight like idiots (like 98% of the Specters in that manga).

The Vol.5 of the Final Edition ends with the image of June and Shun. The Volume has several changes in the dialogues, but nothing important.

Spoiler

In Vol.6 to be published in 2022 (probably in July) will begin the Sanctuary Arc.

 

[Rabbit2002]

What type concept of gods ? Is it type 1 or 2 ?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

What type concept of gods ? Is it type 1 or 2 ?

I believe currently ot scales from Hades as type 1 but there was never a crt about ij the future.

Though eventually it'll be type 1 via Dunamis and "Divine will."

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

I believe currently ot scales from Hades as type 1 but there was never a crt about ij the future.

Though eventually it'll be type 1 via Dunamis and "Divine will."

Why do the other gods have conceptual manipulation?. When Hades is the only god who rules over a concept such as life in the universe, Poseidon and Zeus only rule over the elements of nature such as water (seas) and lightning.

The only gods with conceptual manipulation are probably Chronos (the god literally exists as a concept), Hades rules over all life in the universe and Athena because Nike is a goddess and sacred treasure who manipulates victory for herself.

The Deumanis has nothing to do with conceptual manipulation, because it is described as a power that only manipulates matter on an atomic scale.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Why do the other gods have conceptual manipulation?. When Hades is the only god who rules over a concept such as life in the universe, Poseidon and Zeus only rule over the elements of nature such as water (seas) and lightning.

The only gods with conceptual manipulation are probably Chronos (the god literally exists as a concept), Hades rules over all life in the universe and Athena because Nike is a goddess and sacred treasure who manipulates victory for herself.

The Deumanis has nothing to do with conceptual manipulation, because it is described as a power that only manipulates matter on an atomic scale.

I'll respond to this in detail later. At work atm and I need to finalize a home buying process

 

[Rabbit2002]

I thought water and lightning have thier own concept ? Even Poseidon said God created the ability to speak, to see....
It mean if Zeus die, the lightning will remove from the world. There will be no lightning and even its concept is lost

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

It mean if Zeus die, the lightning will remove from the world. There will be no lightning and even its concept is lost

I doubt it, because the life of the universe did not disappear with the death of Hades, although the world of the dead disappeared with the death of this god. But there is also the example of Thanatos and Hypnos, death and sleep did not disappear from the world with the death of these gods. The concept and element of nature that the gods rule seems not to disappear with their death, and the only exception was Hades and the disappearance of the world of the dead with his death.

 

[Rabbit2002]

I don't remember that Hades is represent life, I thought he created concept dead/ after life. There are no statement that Thanatos and Hypnos was dead, correct me if i'm wrong. I still doubt it Hades is not truely dead in classc, God have regeneration mid-godly, they could regenerate from the complete erasure of body, mind, and soul.

 

[StekFence]

But there is also the example of Thanatos and Hypnos, death and sleep did not disappear from the world with the death of these gods.

Seiya and the bronze boys was never said to have killed them. Just beat them

 

[StekFence]

Even if they did die, seiya doesn’t bypass immortality so it wouldn’t be perm. That’s what I figure anyway

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

I don't remember that Hades is represent life, I thought he created concept dead/ after life. There are no statement that Thanatos and Hypnos was dead, correct me if i'm wrong. I still doubt it Hades is not truely dead in classc, God have regeneration mid-godly, they could regenerate from the complete erasure of body, mind, and soul.

Hades is described as the god who rules all life in the universe, therefore he is the god who rules over life, that is why this god has the power to resurrect the dead, a power that even Athena, Poseidon and Zeus do not possess.

Spoiler

Thanatos is the god who rules over death in this universe.

Spoiler

Hades is the king of the Underworld (the king of the dead) and the god who rules over life, and Thanatos is the god who rules over death. The three gods of the Underworld who are with Hades are Death (Thanatos), Sleep (Hypnos) and Destiny (Keres).

The immortality of the gods will probably be downgraded and only Eris and Chronos will have that immortality and regeneration, because they are the only gods who are connected to their concept in this way. Eris even says that she cannot exist in a world without conflict and Athena's power cannot destroy this goddess, even when she overcame the power of the mythological Athena in her battle against Eris.

The other example on that page is wrong, because that version of Zeus doesn't even have regeneration, he was even defeated after they destroyed his avatar's body and only came back thanks to the power of the black core, and Aiolos cannot completely destroy or eliminate a soul with his power and he is not using a Sacred Treasure, he only attacked with the mediocre Sagittarius Arrow, a weapon that cannot kill gods, that's why Kurumada created the Goddess Arrow, the true divine weapon and sacred treasure of Sagittarius that can kill gods, and probably is the weapon they will use to destroy Asclepius.

Seiya and the bronze boys was never said to have killed them. Just beat them

We can see that the Bronze Saints killed the gods and the holy war ended forever.

Even if they did die, seiya doesn’t bypass immortality so it wouldn’t be perm. That’s what I figure anyway

The Bronze Saints had the God Cloths (infinitely close to the Kamei of the gods) in that fight, a divine object comparable to the Sacred Treasures that can kill the gods.

 

[Urshani]

The immortality of the gods will probably be downgraded and only Eris and Chronos will have that immortality.

Hey, holy shit, Goku can finally kill them (if he catches them off guard)

 

[StekFence]

Hey, holy shit, Goku can finally kill them (if he catches them off guard)

I’m pretty sure they have passive paralysis he doesn’t resist. Unless we talking dbh goku but he alr beats them

 

[StekFence]

The Bronze Saints had the Cloths of the Gods in that fight, a divine object comparable to the Sacred Treasures that can kill the gods.

huh. That should come up in a crt someday

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Man many disinformation and discontexualization.

Someone still can't fathom one God exist for the whole multiverse. Assassin makes it very clear.

Im going to have to hard disagree with any downgrade to immortalities and regen.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Hey, holy shit, Goku can finally kill them (if he catches them off guard)

He still has to destroy their divine souls to eliminate them and the only version of Goku (not Xeno) that can destroy souls is the version of the manga with his pseudo-hakai. In addition, divine souls cannot be destroyed even by attacks that affect or destroy souls and only a Sacred Treasure can destroy a god's divine soul.

Although other races of gods such as the primordials, titans, giants and cyclopes have less impressive immorality and are defeated when their bodies are destroyed, even they can only return with the help of another god and a strange ritual.

 

[StekFence]

Sooom It seems that some stuff in This thread was accepted but not actually implemented. What’s up with that

 

[StekFence]

Just confused about it

 

[StekFence]

Also, this would buff regulus and rhad too right?

 

[Rabbit2002]

Does the scared treasure have resist negation soul manip? It seem like god immune to soul manip. Even soul manip of gold cloth/7th sense is very powerful but cannot harm them. And I think god also have invulnearability because without god cloth and scared treasure, they cannot be harmed by other thing.

 

[Rez]

An Live action adaptation by toei and sony seems to be in production

 

[StekFence]

An Live action adaptation by toei and sony seems to be in production

Yup. I hope it’s good. I wonder if it will have good feats

 

[Urshani]

He still has to destroy their divine souls to eliminate them and the only version of Goku (not Xeno) that can destroy souls is the version of the manga with his pseudo-hakai. In addition, divine souls cannot be destroyed even by attacks that affect or destroy souls and only a Sacred Treasure can destroy a god's divine soul.

Although other races of gods such as the primordials, titans, giants and cyclopes have less impressive immorality and are defeated when their bodies are destroyed, even they can only return with the help of another god and a strange ritual.

oh. do they resist sealing?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Man many disinformation and discontexualization.

Someone still can't fathom one God exist for the whole multiverse. Assassin makes it very clear.

Im going to have to hard disagree with any downgrade to immortalities and regen.

Each universe has its own version of the gods, and this is clear in the way Kurumada describes and shows the multiverse in his franchise, even Dark Wing, the new manga in the franchise that uses Kurumada's most recent ideas, shows this in its story.

The immortality of type 8 has to be removed and the regeneration has to return to low-godly. As I have explained before, Eris is the only god that is described with a connection to the concept she represents in that way. That is why this goddess cannot exist in a world without conflict, she increases her power with conflict in the world and is completely indestructible to a god like Athena even with new Sacred Treasures designed to destroy gods and evil beings like her.

oh. do they resist sealing?

Yes. It takes a very powerful seal and a Sacred Treasure to seal a god. Even when he was sealed by a Sacred Treasure (Athena's Amphora), Poseidon was able to free himself from the Amphora when Athena's seal weakened. And in Hades Arc, he was able to free himself for a few seconds to help the Bronze Saints.

 

[Urshani]

Yes. It takes a very powerful seal and a Sacred Treasure to seal a god. Even when he was sealed by a Sacred Treasure (Athena's Amphora), Poseidon was able to free himself from the Amphora when Athena's seal weakened. And in Hades Arc, he was able to free himself for a few seconds to help the Bronze Saints.

well uh...shit.