Saint Seiya 2-C upgrades and 2-A Additions

[TheUnshakableOne]

Bump...

I posted on Matt's message asking him to comment...

 

[San-Kakarot]

Bump...

I posted on Matt's message asking him to comment...

What does bump and based mean?

 

[Antvasima]

Bump means that you place a thread higher in the forum by making a post, to make it more visible and thus get more replies.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I... Think 2-A for Athena and a bunch of other characters scaling from random mentions of "Fought Zeus" off-screen is unfounded. I'm sorry.

Like Athena never had Holy Wars with Zeus and the stuff with Typhon in the Novel I don't think it's applicable because it's completely different writers with different ideas of how that went down.

And in Episode G Assassin which is the only Saint Seiya material where we actually see Zeus he is specifically noted as being stronger than Hades while in a vastly weakened form in a host body so the idea that Hades is comparable to Zeus.

Also the mad ravings of Gemini Saga's Evil Half aren't a valid source of information. Him thinking that he can kill Zeus or even Hades and Poseidon is just delusion.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also Hades' underworld affecting all universes is a blatant lie. We see in Assassin that different timelines have their own version of Athena, Zeus and Hades. The Multi-Dimensional thing in the Underworld just connects across universes it doesn't mean there's only one underworld for all realities. In fact every depiction of the multiverse in Saint Seiya is contrary to that.

 

[Antvasima]

Matthew seems to make sense to me. What do the rest of you think?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Give me some time to develop some rubbatals. its a busy work week,

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Waka1979]

What about the 2-C stuff?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I"m fine whatever with 2-C. But 2-A based on a few statements of "Oh Hades is comparable to Zeus" or a character boasting which are demonstrably untrue are not acceptable.

 

[Waka1979]

Alright, just wanted to know. I'm mostly interested in the 2-C stuff.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I... Think 2-A for Athena and a bunch of other characters scaling from random mentions of "Fought Zeus" off-screen is unfounded. I'm sorry.

Off-screen feats are still validable if balatant enough.

There is also the narration of Hades cutting an Urn that Zeus cannot destroy with his sword. This should show how comparable they are as well. This is a supporting feat.

Also, the only characters that would scale would be those who broke Athena's Shield or Staff of Nike. Which should be very few

Like Athena never had Holy Wars with Zeus and the stuff with Typhon in the Novel I don't think it's applicable because it's completely different writers with different ideas of how that went down.

On a separate thread the novel was used as supporting Evidence for the Low 2-C rating. Though that had more supporting evidence than this topic does without the novel.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/low-2...h-sense-users-saint-seiya.108448/post-3449386


The entire war with Typhon is completely unknown. We only the major plot points, but the finer details are completely unknown

This is what we do know.

we know why Typhon was created, and we know what the goal was.

We know that Olympians retreated to Egypt BUT they retreated to Egypt they weren't outright killed/slaughtered by Typhon

only Zeus decided to fight him but Zeus lost the first round

Zeus was sealed, but some how and unexplainably Zeus escaped

Zeus fought Typhon again and won. We don't know how Zeus one.


This scan describing the above can be here if you click.

What happened after Typhon was defeated? He was sealed. But The seal has been weakening and Typhon does in fact try to escape. A Gold Saint is sent out to put him back into his seal.

At any point in time between Typhons defeat, and Aiolos re-sealing Typhon. Typhon could have escaped, and he lost his true body, and Athena sealed him. Its also possible that true body Typhon could have been in a weakened state as well during that time he lost his body. Or it could be possible athena did a dirty trick because it appears Typhon doesn't remember losing it to her.

we simply don't know the details in between other than Athena did in fact destroy his true body, and Athena did seal him up too.

And in Episode G Assassin which is the only Saint Seiya material where we actually see Zeus he is specifically noted as being stronger than Hades while in a vastly weakened form in a host body so the idea that Hades is comparable to Zeus.

There was also the instance in Episode G Assassins where Athena used her power to bless the Sagittarius bow which was enough to destroy Zeus completely, but he Mid-godly regened from it. (There is 2 scans here)

This also supports the 2-A ratings.

Classic series has 3 feats
Episode G Assassins later confirms it (the scans in the link above are from Assassins)

Also the mad ravings of Gemini Saga's Evil Half aren't a valid source of information. Him thinking that he can kill Zeus or even Hades and Poseidon is just delusion.

I hard disagree here; Saga might be boastful. He might have been arrogant. However, he had the entire history of all generations of previous popes, and wars, at his disposal. Star Hill has a library where popes have information on previous holy wars written out. The novel being used also touches upon this. Popes write out the history. He had 13 years to read these documents. So Saga is a reliable source here.

Also Hades' underworld affecting all universes is a blatant lie. The Multi-Dimensional thing in the Underworld just connects across universes it doesn't mean there's only one underworld for all realities. In fact every depiction of the multiverse in Saint Seiya is contrary to that.

Aiolos goal was to "Save" the "Multiverse." And Aiolos Blatantly states that he was using the underworld to move to other worlds. Thus, The underworld is connected the multiverse. Its also stated to take in souls from other worlds. Then it is stated again in Next Dimension that Hades is taking in souls from other worlds. As Athena was stated to be coming from "another dimension" by Shijma and Shun who joined her sees Seiya. Both are in different time periods, and dimensions. This is a range feat

We see in Assassin that different timelines have their own version of Athena, Zeus and Hades.

What evidence do you have that their all different Gods? What is to say there is infinite host bodies, but a finite god?

I shall bring up a unique mechanic to SS-verse here as my evidence for only 1 God

2 identical beings cannot co-exist alongside each other in the same world. Both will desire to be unique and will not accept their duality. Saga's split personality suffered this fate. Ikki vs Aiolia was also this fate. Esermalda was reborn and suffered this fate.

This unique verse mechanic also extends to hierarchies, objects, and locations

This was all stated by pope Kanon

and gets reiterated again by Ikki and Seiya

Why is this mechanic important?

Yoshino (an Athena) existed in the same timeline as Kido Saori Athena for 16 years without any issue.
Chaos Athena of the Lost World met Yoshino Athena which is her twin, but the two of them had no issue. (there is 3 scans here) In fact, the Lost World wants her back in their own world.

This raises 2 issues

All 3 of them are are either not Athena at all

or

All 3 of them are Athena, but they are all the same Athena. Therefore, she will not attack herself.


Zeus mentions any universe, any dimension, any time. This is lost world zeus speaking to Aiolia who was brought from some world or the past..to the timeline Seiya is in.

In addition, Why would Zeus let another Zeus want to destroy his planet earth?

if the Underworld connects to "many" universes as you said. Why would it need multiple Hades?

It was pope Kanon that approved the resurrections of the gold saints. We learn here that Kanon managed to broker a deal with Hades This then leads into Aiolos implying there is only 1 underworld with his statement of "I will conquer the underworld then one day." Why would Hades suddenly turn good anyways? When Hades had fought Athena for thousands of years for control over the earth before these events? Its because Lost world (other world) Ikki managed to do that Illusion demon fist (The stronger one) on Shun-Hades. It was at that moment, the first time, in the franchise that we ever seen a good Hades. Which then leads into this next part. The summon spell pope Kanon approved of was to target Camus which we then see him talking to Shun-Hades



What are your thoughts on the Libra weapon scaling to 2-C?

Also: I do want to apologize if this post comes off the wrong way... I had a... terrible day and im trying my best not to let it show...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

if the Underworld connects to "many" universes as you said. Why would it need multiple Hades?

Because we see that there's multiple Hades in the same book.

There is also the narration of Hades cutting an Urn that Zeus cannot destroy with his sword. This should show how comparable they are as well. This is a supporting feat.

The narration is hyperbolic this would mean Hades is stronger than Zeus which is not true.

The entire war with Typhon is completely unknown. We only the major plot points, but the finer details are completely unknown

The Typhon that Athena sealed was weakened, this much is clear? Zeus did most of the work in every account.

I also think 2-A Cronus is kinda wonk...

I'm actually quite curious on how Episode G Requiem is progressing and it is elaborating on the Primordial Gods. We might get more clear feats.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

hard disagree here; Saga might be boastful. He might have been arrogant. However, he had the entire history of all generations of previous popes, and wars, at his disposal

Also reverse the order of your statements and you debunk yourself. Saga may have all the knowledge ever but he was still super arrogant and consummed by hubris and he was defeated by Bronze Saints because of it. His aspirations of defeating Poseidon, Hades and Zeus and rulling the universe are nothing more than the ravings of a madman.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I personally thought the initial 2-A feat from Cronus had some backing; at least for confirmation of the cosmologies size. But I'm not knowledgeable on the scaling or if anyone actually effected the multiverse. But I pretty much agree that not everyone should scale from the 2-A stuff.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Because we see that there's multiple Hades in the same book.


The narration is hyperbolic this would mean Hades is stronger than Zeus which is not true.


The Typhon that Athena sealed was weakened, this much is clear? Zeus did most of the work in every account.

I also think 2-A Cronus is kinda wonk...

I'm actually quite curious on how Episode G Requiem is progressing and it is elaborating on the Primordial Gods. We might get more clear feats.

I don't have much time atm

But 2-A cronos is kind of dependent on exploring, and elaborating on the cosmology.

But looking at it and taking it as is.. does seem "wonk."

But are you perhaps suggesting holding off on major upgrades/downgrades in AP and durability and waiting on requiem to become more developed?

 

[Hasty12345]

I"m fine whatever with 2-C. But 2-A based on a few statements of "Oh Hades is comparable to Zeus" or a character boasting which are demonstrably untrue are not acceptable.

You're right, a few statements saying they're comparable shouldn't be enough for an upgrade. However, I'd argue 2-C Zeus is therefore more consistent than his current rating, 2-A is an outlier if a bow from Athena (a 2-C) can destroy his body and soul.

The narration is hyperbolic this would mean Hades is stronger than Zeus which is not true.

Not at all, there is 0 reason to believe the narration is hyperbole, Zeus would simply do more damage to the urn than Hades would, but Hades would downscale from Zeus.

I also think 2-A Cronus is kinda wonk...

that is true, it's more likely time manip, so ironically, Zeus would upscale from Hades' 2-C feat.....

Also reverse the order of your statements and you debunk yourself. Saga may have all the knowledge ever but he was still super arrogant and consummed by hubris and he was defeated by Bronze Saints because of it. His aspirations of defeating Poseidon, Hades and Zeus and rulling the universe are nothing more than the ravings of a madman

Saga being wrong about himbeating the gods doesn't make him wrong about Athena and Zeus partaking in holy wars which was the initial argument.

 

[Hasty12345]

Because we see that there's multiple Hades in the same book.

explained in the post above.

 

[Hasty12345]

I personally thought the initial 2-A feat from Cronus had some backing; at least for confirmation of the cosmologies size. But I'm not knowledgeable on the scaling or if anyone actually effected the multiverse. But I pretty much agree that not everyone should scale from the 2-A stuff.

The feat can only be 2-A under the interpretation there is only 1 Zeus throughout the cosmology this is due to Cronus' dialogue that "not even Zeus could escape him" - which we know from GA that Zeus can freely roam the cosmology no issues, but with multiple Zeus, that statement doesn't support 2-A, it debunks it.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Because we see that there's multiple Hades in the same book.

This gets contradicted by the mechanic the verse has created. There cannot be 2 of the same being that exist in the same world. They would attempt to kill each other, or one would actually go mad.

I have detailed out this mechanic below in the quoted area

2 identical beings cannot co-exist alongside each other in the same world. Both will desire to be unique and will not accept their duality. Saga's split personality suffered this fate. Ikki vs Aiolia was also this fate. Esermalda was reborn and suffered this fate.

This unique verse mechanic also extends to hierarchies, objects, and locations

This was all stated by pope Kanon

and gets reiterated again by Ikki and Seiya

Why is this mechanic important?

Yoshino (an Athena) existed in the same timeline as Kido Saori Athena for 16 years without any issue.
Chaos Athena of the Lost World met Yoshino Athena which is her twin, but the two of them had no issue. (there is 3 scans here) In fact, the Lost World wants her back in their own world.

The narration is hyperbolic this would mean Hades is stronger than Zeus which is not true.

Except it has reinforcing feats from Saga's earlier statement, to Athena destroying Zeus in Assassins by endowing the Sagittarius bow with her power.



I have posted the scans below in the quoted area

There was also the instance in Episode G Assassins where Athena used her power to bless the Sagittarius bow which was enough to destroy Zeus completely, but he Mid-godly regened from it.

The Typhon that Athena sealed was weakened, this much is clear? Zeus did most of the work in every account.

Not exactly clear; present time Typhon is weakened yes. however Ancient Athena sealed him in the ancient past sometime before Episode G but after Zeus defeated him. The details of that time period is unknown.

I also think 2-A Cronus is kinda wonk...

This would need an indepth analysis of what cronos was going to do, or was doing. I don't remember the end of G very well. its been a while.

something about the past, and future. Which are usually alluded to other universes within the verse. unless you want to separate anime from Manga like you said. Assassins does alude to multiple multiverse. unless the translations aren't reliable.

I'm actually quite curious on how Episode G Requiem is progressing and it is elaborating on the Primordial Gods. We might get more clear feats.

are you wanting to postpone any AP and durability upgrades until Requiem becomes more developed?

Also reverse the order of your statements and you debunk yourself. Saga may have all the knowledge ever but he was still super arrogant and consummed by hubris and he was defeated by Bronze Saints because of it. His aspirations of defeating Poseidon, Hades and Zeus and rulling the universe are nothing more than the ravings of a madman.

it doesn't debunk anything. Sagas ultimate goal was world domination, but the gods that have been coveting the earth stand in his way. He needs a way fight them equally. he needed a counter measure so that he could keep earth under his control.

Let me use the Titans as an example.

Saga boastfully stated that no god will rule over him, but he knew he was no match for them. So he had to take advantage of them. He even states that he constructed a plot. Which his other half ruined it. (there is 3 different scans here)

So, yes, he is reliable and he knows what he is talking about. He isn't insane, or gone clinically mad, delirious, out of his mind, or crazy.

The dude has political ties to many countries in the world, and he has to play diplomat. He has to fake being a pope for years. Saga is actually pretty intelligent.

But I pretty much agree that not everyone should scale from the 2-A stuff.

Not everyone would scale. It would only apply to anyone who has physically damaged the Aegis shield of Athena, and the Staff of Niki of Athena's or Hades Sword. Which from what i remember; I do not recall anyone doing that. Also, most Gods try to destroy her stuff while it is still in the statue form which is state of her God Cloth where it is weakened.

This wouldn't scale to anyone physically such as punches and kicks. Just Aeigis sheild of Athena and staff of Nikki and Hades Sword

but if we did factor out the 2-A rating this would still be about a debate of scaling Athena, and hades to Zeus. Whatever tier he becomes.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This gets contradicted by the mechanic the verse has created. There cannot be 2 of the same being that exist in the same world. They would attempt to kill each other, or one would actually go mad.

But we literally see it happen dude! The Lost World Zeus and the Lost World Athena are completely different people and we see the Lost World version of Hades kill his universe's version of the Saints. The mechanic is being misinterpreted!

 

[Hasty12345]

But we literally see it happen dude! The Lost World Zeus and the Lost World Athena are completely different people and we see the Lost World version of Hades kill his universe's version of the Saints. The mechanic is being misinterpreted!

we see Zeus take control of LW Aiolia, we see LW Saori and we see LW Shun-Hades. - all of which are mortals.

I implore you to actually read the evidence being presented to you. The argument put forth to you is trying to explain Gods have multiple hosts throughout the multiverse, which is supported by the fact two identical beings cannot coexist, and thus there can only be one of each God throughout the multiverse despite having many hosts.

I'd also like to note the events we see in the LW are in the past, at a time unspecified. So you cannot argue Hades' soul in LW Shun contradicts Hades' soul in main timeline Shun.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

About 2-A Cronus:

• The concept of a multiverse wasn't even introduced in Episode G, it was only clearly established much later with recent developments in Next Dimension and Lost Canvas Gaiden and only really solidied in Assassin
• Cronus talks about "Destroying all of time, all of past and future, all of existence" which I guess you can stretch to 2-A. But some translations I've seen have less clear language, like having Cronus say he will "destroy the whole world" which is far more vague. Given how we were all bamboozled for years by the Episode G Translations all saying Universe when Mu actually says Galaxy I think we could try looking at the RAW version of Cronus' lines, if possible.
• The evidence that I think best signifies that Cronus' feat is definitely affecting more than one universe is the line where he explains that both Earth and Tartarus will be destroyed. If it wasn't for that line I'd just say it was a universal feat without any further evidence.

Also... The feat is just ******* weird? Like, I'm not a fundamentalist who thinks only punching feats are valid for tiers but Cronus' feat is just so weird. First he blows up the Hourglass of Time which starts distorting time on Earth and etc. And then when he's fighting the Saints he says that all of time will be destroyed and he summons this circle of flames on a wheel behind his back and he explains that when all the flames are out all of existence will collapse.

Like I think it's definitely legit but it just rubs me the wrong way. And if you really want to start scaling practically every god (Which, if Athena scales, then virtually every god does) to this it'd be such an insane outlier.

However I think there may be a future to 2-A Saint Seiya what with recent developments in Saint Seiya Requiem making it very clear that the Primordial Gods are unique for all parallel universes, and also Pontos being very implied to be the literal "Black Sea" between all universes and timelines.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I implore you to actually read the evidence being presented to you. The argument put forth to you is trying to explain Gods have multiple hosts throughout the multiverse, which is supported by the fact two identical beings cannot coexist, and thus there can only be one of each God throughout the multiverse despite having many hosts.

I read the evidence. This is just gueswork. Never the book goes "Oh, only the hosts are different", rather the hosts alongside their gods being different is the far more likely explanation that I see.

 

[Waka1979]

Unshakable and hasty make sense to me

 

[Hasty12345]

About 2-A Cronus:

• The concept of a multiverse wasn't even introduced in Episode G, it was only clearly established much later with recent developments in Next Dimension and Lost Canvas Gaiden and only really solidied in Assassin
• Cronus talks about "Destroying all of time, all of past and future, all of existence" which I guess you can stretch to 2-A. But some translations I've seen have less clear language, like having Cronus say he will "destroy the whole world" which is far more vague. Given how we were all bamboozled for years by the Episode G Translations all saying Universe when Mu actually says Galaxy I think we could try looking at the RAW version of Cronus' lines, if possible.
• The evidence that I think best signifies that Cronus' feat is definitely affecting more than one universe is the line where he explains that both Earth and Tartarus will be destroyed. If it wasn't for that line I'd just say it was a universal feat without any further evidence.

Also... The feat is just ******* weird? Like, I'm not a fundamentalist who thinks only punching feats are valid for tiers but Cronus' feat is just so weird. First he blows up the Hourglass of Time which starts distorting time on Earth and etc. And then when he's fighting the Saints he says that all of time will be destroyed and he summons this circle of flames on a wheel behind his back and he explains that when all the flames are out all of existence will collapse.

Like I think it's definitely legit but it just rubs me the wrong way. And if you really want to start scaling practically every god (Which, if Athena scales, then virtually every god does) to this it'd be such an insane outlier.

However I think there may be a future to 2-A Saint Seiya what with recent developments in Saint Seiya Requiem making it very clear that the Primordial Gods are unique for all parallel universes, and also Pontos being very implied to be the literal "Black Sea" between all universes and timelines.

Literally only Hades' Sword, Athena's staff and Shield scale to Zeus' lightning....

dunno where the outlier comes from.

 

[Hasty12345]

This is just gueswork

in your opinion*

It's pretty blatant there can only exist a single one of each God, I have no Idea why Cronus would attempt to destroy all of existence to find Zeus if there's infinite Zeus'.



^scans and translations.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

i won't be able to get back to this until late tomorrow night Chicago time.. I am very sorry..

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's pretty blatant there can only exist a single one of each God, I have no Idea why Cronus would attempt to destroy all of existence to find Zeus if there's infinite Zeus'.

Because "all of existence" is not in every translation and it may just mean universe.

 

[Hasty12345]

Because "all of existence" is not in every translation and it may just mean universe.

which is fair, however, if the Japanese is "sekai" or "world" , world can translate to existence and if the official BR translation is translated to "existence", the official translation should take priority over any fan translation, and there wouldn't be any inherent contradiction with the raws.

honestly, I'm very unsure if the feat is "legit".

 

[Antvasima]

Matthew makes sense to me. We should preferably go with whatever solution he has to these topics.

Also, you can ask Qliphoth_Bacikal for translations help.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

But we literally see it happen dude! The Lost World Zeus and the Lost World Athena are completely different people and we see the Lost World version of Hades kill his universe's version of the Saints. The mechanic is being misinterpreted!

How is any of this relevant to the mechanic in the verse that prevents duplicates of the same being? How does it disprove there only being 1 Hades. zeus, Athena, etc?


How am i misinterpreting it? How do you interpret the mechanic?

About 2-A Cronus:

• The concept of a multiverse wasn't even introduced in Episode G, it was only clearly established much later with recent developments in Next Dimension and Lost Canvas Gaiden and only really solidied in Assassin
• Cronus talks about "Destroying all of time, all of past and future, all of existence" which I guess you can stretch to 2-A. But some translations I've seen have less clear language, like having Cronus say he will "destroy the whole world" which is far more vague. Given how we were all bamboozled for years by the Episode G Translations all saying Universe when Mu actually says Galaxy I think we could try looking at the RAW version of Cronus' lines, if possible.
• The evidence that I think best signifies that Cronus' feat is definitely affecting more than one universe is the line where he explains that both Earth and Tartarus will be destroyed. If it wasn't for that line I'd just say it was a universal feat without any further evidence.

Also... The feat is just ******* weird? Like, I'm not a fundamentalist who thinks only punching feats are valid for tiers but Cronus' feat is just so weird. First he blows up the Hourglass of Time which starts distorting time on Earth and etc. And then when he's fighting the Saints he says that all of time will be destroyed and he summons this circle of flames on a wheel behind his back and he explains that when all the flames are out all of existence will collapse.

Like I think it's definitely legit but it just rubs me the wrong way. And if you really want to start scaling practically every god (Which, if Athena scales, then virtually every god does) to this it'd be such an insane outlier.

However I think there may be a future to 2-A Saint Seiya what with recent developments in Saint Seiya Requiem making it very clear that the Primordial Gods are unique for all parallel universes, and also Pontos being very implied to be the literal "Black Sea" between all universes and timelines.

I am fine with evert thing you said here except what i quoted below.

And if you really want to start scaling practically every god (Which, if Athena scales, then virtually every god does) to this it'd be such an insane outlier.

Could you explain to me how they would scale? because what I am applying on this thread is only for her Shield, hax, and Staff. I am not applying a higher tier to her physical base durability, punches, or kicks. I am only applying a higher tier to her Shield (Her blocking skill) and her Staff (her weapon) and her hax (Which doesn't scale to AP)

What other Gods have destroyed strictly only the shield, or staff?

also Pontos being very implied to be the literal "Black Sea" between all universes and timelines.

I am curious about your thoughts here though. What evidence suggest this? I never thought of this possibility.

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew_Schroeder

Your further input would be appreciated.

 

[Hasty12345]

Could you explain to me how they would scale? because what I am applying on this thread is only for her Shield, hax, and Staff. I am not applying a higher tier to her physical base durability, punches, or kicks. I am only applying a higher tier to her Shield (Her blocking skill) and her Staff (her weapon) and her hax (Which doesn't scale to AP)

What other Gods have destroyed strictly only the shield, or staff?

Even so, Athena was iirc amped by the bronzes when she defeated Hades, implying Zeus<~Hades' sword>>>>Hades' physical~amped Athena>>>Athena

So literally, ONLY Hades' sword would scale anywhere near Zeus and Athena would only scale amped with her divine weapons and god cloth.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

@Matthew_Schroeder

Your further input would be appreciated.

I know what it's like to busy irl. We shouldn't rush anything lol. Sometimes its also good to take a couple day break from the wiki and come back later

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, no problem.

 

[Skullberserk]

I have a question, because Cronus and Zeus are 2-A. What is the justification for this?

I read the profile and it says that Cronus threatens to destroy the multiverse, but that never happened in the manga.

Cronus only says that his power affects the time of planet Earth (altering the different epochs of the planet) and the area where he was fighting with Aiolia (the castle of the Titans in the Tartarus).

Even each universe in the multiverse of Saint Seiya has its own version of the gods, for each universe there is a Hades, Cronus, Zeus, etc, so destroying the multiverse was never an option for a god. The only god that is likely unique is the version of Chronus that appears in ND.

Cronus and Zeus are probably 2-C by powerscalling of Hades and other gods.

Hades = Tier 2-A Scaling with Zeus but ONLY with his sword. Not his physical stats!
Range for Hades should be 2-A. His Underworld is connected to all worlds as if it is some sort of nexus of all realities.

Each universe has its own Underworld and each universe has its own version of Hades. The Underworld is not nexus to all realities, it is only the world of the dead, a world completely different from the time-space of the universe (it is not even affected by the distortion in time-space that is destroying the universe), but it is world created by Hades' version of that universe. Aiolos uses a portal (black nucleus) to connect his world (Lost World) with another world.

Even in Dark Wing, Athena (with an attack known as the "light of Athena") destroyed the Underworld of Hades in that universe.

Spoiler

Hypnos:

Attack Potency: Low Multiverse level (Comparable to his brother Thanatos)

Durability: Low Multiverse level (Hypnos tanked an attack that had the combined force/power of an entire era of saints including the Pope, all 12 Gold Saints, all Silver and Bronze saints of that era. He took some damage from a God Cloth Pegasus Seiya)

It was never the attack with the power of 12 Gold Saints, because it was only an attack with a fraction of the power of some Gold Saints (Taurus, Cancer, Pisces and Aries), Silver Saints and Bronze Saints.

Hakurei's attack only uses the souls of his former companions to strengthen his technique, but they are only souls with a fraction of the cosmos of the Saints, a group of souls that weren't even wearing his true armor.

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew_Schroeder

What do you think?

 

[Hasty12345]

I have a question, because Cronus and Zeus are 2-A. What is the justification for this?

I read the profile and it says that Cronus threatens to destroy the multiverse, but that never happened in the manga.

Cronus only says that his power affects the time of planet Earth (altering the different epochs of the planet) and the area where he was fighting with Aiolia (the castle of the Titans in the Tartarus).

Even each universe in the multiverse of Saint Seiya has its own version of the gods, for each universe there is a Hades, Cronus, Zeus, etc, so destroying the multiverse was never an option for a god. The only god that is likely unique is the version of Chronus that appears in ND.

Cronus and Zeus are probably 2-C by powerscalling of Hades and other gods.

Each universe has its own Underworld and each universe has its own version of Hades. The Underworld is not nexus to all realities, it is only the world of the dead, a world completely different from the time-space of the universe (it is not even affected by the distortion in time-space that is destroying the universe), but it is world created by Hades' version of that universe. Aiolos uses a portal (black nucleus) to connect his world (Lost World) with another world.

Even in Dark Wing, Athena (with an attack known as the "light of Athena") destroyed the Underworld of Hades in that universe.

Spoiler

It was never the attack with the power of 12 Gold Saints, because it was only an attack with a fraction of the power of some Gold Saints (Taurus, Cancer, Pisces and Aries), Silver Saints and Bronze Saints.

Hakurei's attack only uses the souls of his former companions to strengthen his technique, but they are only souls with a fraction of the cosmos of the Saints, a group of souls that weren't even wearing his true armor.

everything here has been explained in the thread.

and prove dark wing is canon.

 

[Skullberserk]

everything here has been explained in the thread.

The first translation is different in Japanese and Cronus only indicates that he will destroy Aiolia.
Imgur: Cronus: 我が大鎌（デュナミスドレパノン）の神力翼（デュナミスプチリュクス)は全ての刻を狩リ取リ崩ス... お前も原子のチリに崩れてモドレ...

Translation: "The flames of my arms are an indicator: With each flame that is extinguished, a further shift in time occours. If you do not destroy me before they are all gone... Then everything both here and on Earth will collapse and end in ruin. And that not even Zeus will be able to avoid."

This part indicates that only the Earth (planet Earth) and the land where they were fighting (the castle of the Titans in the Tartarus) will be destroyed, it never indicates that the entire multiverse would be destroyed.

Translation: "What happened? Get up already. Or are you going to let the flames of time be extinguished? When this flame fades, this earth will disappear. Oh, look... One's already gone."

This only describes that the earth, the place where Aiolia and Cronus were fighting would begin to be destroyed, even at the end of the fight the floor in that place is destroyed and the two fall into the depths of the Tartarus. Nor does it indicate that Cronus was destroying the multiverse.

When this story was released, the concept of the multiverse was not even present in the franchise.

and prove dark wing is canon.

It is part of the multiverse and the Saint Seiya franchise, even the last chapter has a reference to the multiverse, because the version of Aiolos from this universe has a memory of the world of Seiya and company, or it is even possible that this Aiolos is the reincarnation of the Aiolos of the main universe.

Spoiler

The author of Saintia Sho probably made a reference at the beginning of Dark Wing, when Dysnomia mentions that a new universe was born in the multiverse.

Spoiler

P1
Shaka: Spend the time...?
Shaka: Are you renouncing to fight?
Dysnomia: Hehe...
Dysnomia: I've already put you in "quarantine"
Dysnomia: My job as a dryad is done, don't you agree?
Dysnomia: Fighting now is meaningless... I'm actually not interested
Dysnomia: Furthermore, I want to know more about you... Mister Shaka
Shaka: ..........
Shaka: What on earth
Shaka: Is this place?

P2 & P3
Dysnomia: Heh... You see...
Dysnomia: This is the place where all space-time from all Universes converge
Dysnomia: From the Myth Era to a far away future
Dysnomia: You can access it all from here, as you'd wish

Shaka was taken by Dysnomia's Reverse of Universe...?

Stage 81: Justice of the Saints/Justice for Saints

Dysnomia: A forbidden place where not even the gods eyes can reach
Dysnomia: ... Do you get it?
Dysnomia: If you look at any event or fate chosen by the stars
Dysnomia: They are just small fragments among millions of sparks
Dysnomia: Very, very tiny...

P4
Dysnomia: Oh, look...
Dysnomia: It seems a new universe
Dysnomia: Is being born...

Each universe has its own version of the gods, for example in Assassin we could even observe three different versions of Athena.
- Saori is the Athena from the world of the future who appears in Assassin.
- Yoshino and Tomoe are an Athena from an unknown world who reincarnated as twins.

Spoiler

- An Saori who was killed by Aiolos and was the Athena of that world.

Spoiler

-----------------------------------------