Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

[TheUnshakableOne]

I found the scan everyone wonders what it actually says. I talked to some native Japanese speaking people (Off site. They do not do fictional character royales) about it and some people taking classes to learn Japanese. This was what they all pretty much said about it.

勝てるト思ったのガ間違イ
You were wrong to think you could win.

我は全テヲ破壊スルために生まれし神.
刻と命を切り裂きあらゆるモノを断チ灰塵にせシ者.

I am the god who was born to destroy all of existence. I mercilessly rips apart lives and reduces all that exist to ashes.

れいがい例外なド 存在しなイ
There are no exceptions.

Original scan is here

 

[StekFence]

Interestng

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

I found the scan everyone wonders what it actually says. I talked to some native Japanese speaking people (Off site. They do not do fictional character royales) about it and some people taking classes to learn Japanese. This was what they all pretty much said about it.

勝てるト思ったのガ間違イ
You were wrong to think you could win.

我は全テヲ破壊スルために生まれし神.
刻と命を切り裂きあらゆるモノを断チ灰塵にせシ者.

I am the god who was born to destroy all of existence. I mercilessly rips apart lives and reduces all that exist to ashes.

れいがい例外なド 存在しなイ
There are no exceptions.

Original scan is here

In reality it does not say that he destroys all existence, in reference to destroying the whole world, it only mentions that he is a god who was born to destroy. It is because his power allows him to destroy living beings, even describing that his final technique destroys the opponent to the point of turning him into atoms.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

In reality it does not say that he destroys all existence, in reference to destroying the whole world, it only mentions that he is a god who was born to destroy.

I talked to like 6 people 4 of which are native to japan. They say it "references the meaning of All of existence without saying out right saying the exact phrase "all of existence"" putting a long conversation short.

edit: they also did say context is important but at face value without knowing any other context. What I said above is what they said it means. (i spoke them all separately)

 

[StekFence]

Destroying all of existence without saying all of existence. Huh

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

I talked to like 6 people 4 of which are native to japan. They say it "references the meaning of All of existence without saying all of existence" putting a long conversation short.

edit: they also did say context is important but at face value without knowing any other context. that is what they said (i spoke them all separately)

The person who translates the Next Dimension, Shady (the best translation of this manga, even mentioned by several people who understand the language), did me the favor of translating this, and said that the translation is incorrect and exaggerated. It never mentions that it destroys all of existence, it only says that it destroys everything, in the context that it destroys all that is before it with its power.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Sorry bud but im going to have to disagree. I trust my sources

also the Tivenk and HouseOflibra agreed with them. They've both translated some saint seiay manga into english

Edit: it appears we have a clash of sources. This seems rather sus.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Destroying all of existence without saying all of existence. Huh

Without saying the exact phrase "all of existence" instead they used another way of saying it.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Sorry bud but im going to have to disagree. I trust my sources

also the Tivenk and HouseOflibra agreed with them. They've both translated some saint seiay manga into english

Edit: it appears we have a clash of sources. This seems rather sus.

The translation with the best translator of this franchise says that this is not so.

 

[StekFence]

it appears we have a clash of sources.

So who has the highest cosmo!? This is the essence of battle

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The translation with the best translator of this franchise says that this is not so.

Anyone can claim to be the best translator.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Without saying the exact phrase "all of existence" instead they used another way of saying it.

The phrase "all of existence" is never mentioned on that page. He only says that it destroys all. In context, it only indicates that it destroys all that is in front of it.

Anyone can claim to be the best translator.

Because Shady is the translator that has the least amount of errors, even after reviewing the original material, as opposed to Episode.G's translation which is characterized by several errors. The Next Dimension in Spanish translated by Shady is the best translation of this franchise.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The phrase "all of existence" is never mentioned on that page. He only says that it destroys all.

all of my sources told me that what is being referenced from what is being used is another way to say "all of existence" without saying that exact phrase but like a synonym for it

And doesn't other Officially translated sources from companies who pay translators who have degrees in lanuagee also say "All of existence" here as well? Such as the official BR version?

Because Shady is the translator that has the least amount of errors, even after reviewing the original material, as opposed to Episode.G's translation which is characterized by several errors.

Appeal to accomplishment fallacy.

This is all the time i have to talk... busy week and other stuff going on...

 

[Hasty12345]

Yeah… no. The official publication is the translation that is the correct translation.

translation bias is a thing that plagues battleboarding

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

all of my sources told me that what is being referenced from what is being used is another way to say "all of existence"

And doesn't other Officially translated sources from companies who pay translators who have degrees in lanuagee also say "All of existence" here as well? Such as the official BR version?

Appeal to accomplishment fallacy.

It never mentions that, it just says it destroys all (全テ) and this never translates as all of existence.

Like the French translation of the Galaxian Encyclopedia that you tried to use to say that Tenma Kofuku has the power of a big bang, when in the original Japanese language it only says that it has a power comparable to Galaxian Explosion.

This indicates the reliability of these translations.

Appeal to accomplishment fallacy.

This is all the time i have to talk... busy week and other stuff going on...

A translation that has never had any problems with translation errors, versus a translation that has a lot of problems, which have even been pointed out in several threads by different users.

 

[StekFence]

Haluto's description of the sword's power is either hyperbole or he is simply comparing that sword to the version of Abzu (the weaker version in Koga's body) that he fought with.

Abzu is one of the most powerful gods in this franchise and Omega, a god more powerful than Athena, even Saturn mentions with surprise that the Saints were able to defeat Abzu. A sword that was destroyed by the Gold Saints is not on the level of a god like Abzu.

Abzu was only defeated by a combination of several cosmos in Koga, who had the cosmos of his five friends (more powerful than the Gold Saints), the cosmos of light and darkness in Koga's body (the cosmos of darkness is Abzu's power and the cosmos of light is Athena's power) and the cosmos of Aria's scepter (all the cosmos Mars stole from planet Earth and all the cosmos of Aria, who became a new Athena).

Weellllll, genbu once stated that as the generations go on, the new saints will become more powerful and powerful. So therefore, genbu should totally have 2c ap with the libra sword. definitely .

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

It never mentions that, it just says it destroys all (全テ) and this never translates as all of existence.

Like the French translation of the Galaxian Encyclopedia that you tried to use to say that Tenma Kofuku has the power of a big bang, when in the original Japanese language it only says that it has a power comparable to Galaxian Explosion.

This indicates the reliability of these translations.

A translation that has never had any problems with translation errors, versus a translation that has a lot of problems, which have even been pointed out in several threads by different users.

This just means the verse needs yeeted and deleted

Edit: Ive seen entire verses on the wiki get deleted due to unreliable translations, contradicting translations, etc.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

This just means the verse needs yeeted and deleted

No. Most of the pages in this verse mainly use information from the original manga (a manga whose translations are reviewed by multiple users in multiple languages) and from Next Dimension (the manga with the best translation by Shady). The translation problem is in Episode.G (mainly the first manga), but the franchise is not only this manga. It is even likely that we will only have to remove the Episode.G information from the profiles in the worst case scenario due to translation problems. You act as if Episode.G were the pillar and the most important manga of this franchise.

Although some pages have incorrect information, for example Mu's page still uses information from a bad translation of Episode.G.

Aries Mu

Aries Mu is a character from the Saint Seiya Franchise, first introduced during the Classic Saint Seiya Manga/Anime. A descendant of the Mythical People of Lemuria, Mu was naturally born with great talent for Cosmic Control and all manner of Psychokinesis. He spends his childhood in Jamir, a...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The description of Mu's attack power indicates that he destroys a universe, when he only destroys one dimension, and it also says that he creates a universe, when the correct translation of that scene only says that he creates a galaxy. I even think a better description would be to say that he is one of the strongest Gold Saints and not much weaker than Shaka, who destroys and creates countless universes in his fight with Shijima.

It has been suggested that the character pages of The Lost Canvas be removed, but I think these pages can be corrected.

And other profiles like these have several problems.

Tartarus (Saint Seiya)

Tartarus is the Primordial God of Death and the Underworld, and a living universe of pure, bottomless darkness and chaos. He is at least as old as Gaia, and was the entity that fathered the monstrous Typhon. Tier: 2-A Origin: Saint Seiya Gender: Genderless, but referred to as Male Age: Older...

vsbattles.fandom.com

In Next Dimension it is confirmed that Tartarus is only a part of the world of the dead and a prison for Asclepius, so it is not a god and is only a place. This page should be removed.

Another nonsense on this page (and the primordial gods).
Age: Older than the Universe

The gods in this franchise are not older than the universe, they are never described as older than the universe, even in Episode.G it is described that Gaia is not older than the planet Earth, because she appeared when the Earth already existed. The universe was born with the big bang and then the gods appear. Only Abzu (and probably Saturn) is the only god described as older than the universe and Abzu is even the creator of the universe in his series.

Callisto

Callisto is a character first introduced in the manga Saint Seiya Next Dimension. As the Leader of the Satellites and the Representative of Artemis, Callisto is an incredibly powerful woman, able to bring difficulty even to those who wield the 7th Sense. She is wise, fearless and blindly devoted...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Callisto as 3-A or 2-C is not reliable, because the Bronze Saints (protagonists) change their power in each Arc, because they do not master the Seventh Sense. And Artemis' army seems to be on the level of Bronze or Silver Saints. A Bronze Saint like Katya stops a attack of Callisto on Saintia Sho, and Deathmask was like a god to these weak warriors.

Hector of Troy

Hector (Ἕκτωρ) was one of the principal warriors and greatest heroes of the now mythical Trojan Wars, where he fought for the side of Troy under the blessing of the Sun and Prophecy God Apollo and faced the Greek Demigod Achilles, who under the protection of the Goddess of War and Wisdom Athena...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hector has no feat that places him at level 3-A or 2-C, when he was only easily beaten by Milo and his best feat was lifting a large stone. This page should be removed.

 

[StekFence]

Hector has no feat that places him at level 3-A or 2-C, when he was only easily beaten by Milo and his best feat was lifting a large stone. This page should be removed.

Hector did fight and harm milo in episode g. So he should be a weak 7th sense level. Although, he appeared for like, 5 pages so idk if he’s even important enough to warrant a page

 

[StekFence]

And also, saint seiya awakening does have more story as it seems. Right now, in the global version of the game, divine cloth Alderabaran has been released, and there’s cutscenes showing that Chronos has revived dead gold Saints on athenas behalf, and gave their cloths athenas blood, and that some mystery god has also revived and empowered the 108 specters. Empowered niobe even tanked base Taurus great horn head on

 

[StekFence]

I quote, Niobe “even this body is forged with divine powers”. Additionally, while base alderbaran has completely become immune to deep fragrance, the mist itself can still trap him.

 

[Hasty12345]

feel free to make the profiles in a sandbox and make a crt to have them added.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

No. Most of the pages in this verse mainly use information from the original manga (a manga whose translations are reviewed by multiple users in multiple languages) and from Next Dimension (the manga with the best translation by Shady). The translation problem is in Episode.G (mainly the first manga), but the franchise is not only this manga. It is even likely that we will only have to remove the Episode.G information from the profiles in the worst case scenario due to translation problems. You act as if Episode.G were the pillar and the most important manga of this franchise.

Although some pages have incorrect information, for example Mu's page still uses information from a bad translation of Episode.G.

Aries Mu

Aries Mu is a character from the Saint Seiya Franchise, first introduced during the Classic Saint Seiya Manga/Anime. A descendant of the Mythical People of Lemuria, Mu was naturally born with great talent for Cosmic Control and all manner of Psychokinesis. He spends his childhood in Jamir, a...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The description of Mu's attack power indicates that he destroys a universe, when he only destroys one dimension, and it also says that he creates a universe, when the correct translation of that scene only says that he creates a galaxy. I even think a better description would be to say that he is one of the strongest Gold Saints and not much weaker than Shaka, who destroys and creates countless universes in his fight with Shijima.

It has been suggested that the character pages of The Lost Canvas be removed, but I think these pages can be corrected.

And other profiles like these have several problems.

Tartarus (Saint Seiya)

Tartarus is the Primordial God of Death and the Underworld, and a living universe of pure, bottomless darkness and chaos. He is at least as old as Gaia, and was the entity that fathered the monstrous Typhon. Tier: 2-A Origin: Saint Seiya Gender: Genderless, but referred to as Male Age: Older...

vsbattles.fandom.com

In Next Dimension it is confirmed that Tartarus is only a part of the world of the dead and a prison for Asclepius, so it is not a god and is only a place. This page should be removed.

Another nonsense on this page (and the primordial gods).
Age: Older than the Universe

The gods in this franchise are not older than the universe, they are never described as older than the universe, even in Episode.G it is described that Gaia is not older than the planet Earth, because she appeared when the Earth already existed. The universe was born with the big bang and then the gods appear. Only Abzu (and probably Saturn) is the only god described as older than the universe and Abzu is even the creator of the universe in his series.

Callisto

Callisto is a character first introduced in the manga Saint Seiya Next Dimension. As the Leader of the Satellites and the Representative of Artemis, Callisto is an incredibly powerful woman, able to bring difficulty even to those who wield the 7th Sense. She is wise, fearless and blindly devoted...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Callisto as 3-A or 2-C is not reliable, because the Bronze Saints (protagonists) change their power in each Arc, because they do not master the Seventh Sense. And Artemis' army seems to be on the level of Bronze or Silver Saints. A Bronze Saint like Katya stops a attack of Callisto on Saintia Sho, and Deathmask was like a god to these weak warriors.

Hector of Troy

Hector (Ἕκτωρ) was one of the principal warriors and greatest heroes of the now mythical Trojan Wars, where he fought for the side of Troy under the blessing of the Sun and Prophecy God Apollo and faced the Greek Demigod Achilles, who under the protection of the Goddess of War and Wisdom Athena...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hector has no feat that places him at level 3-A or 2-C, when he was only easily beaten by Milo and his best feat was lifting a large stone. This page should be removed.

Real quick my mans

But quick question, do you think the events that happaned in the classic series happened in GA?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Hector did fight and harm milo in episode g. So he should be a weak 7th sense level. Although, he appeared for like, 5 pages so idk if he’s even important enough to warrant a page

Hector only attacks and Milo takes no damage from this opponent's attacks, and then defeats him with his technique without any problems. Hector is not at the level of a Gold Saint, and I don't even consider him to be at the level of a Silver Saint.

I quote, Niobe “even this body is forged with divine powers”. Additionally, while base alderbaran has completely become immune to deep fragrance, the mist itself can still trap him.

Niobe continues to be impressive as always, the guy has one of the most dangerous techniques of the Specters. It's interesting that Papillon, Deep and Sphynx have better and more effective techniques than the mediocre techniques of the Kyotos.

Real quick my mans

But quick question, do you think the events that happaned in the classic series happened in GA?

It seems that some events of the original manga were similar, but others are different, for example Kanon and Rada are alive, Shion is also alive inexplicably, Shura was trained by Izo (when Dohko confirms his death in Zero), Seiya doesn't mention his battle against Thanatos (when he mentions the gods he fought in the past) and when he returns his armor has a different design from the Pegasus Cloth in the Hades Arc (an armor with a similar design to the one seen at the end of Overture), the curse of Hades doesn't seem to have the same effect as in the original manga and Next Dimension (the effect is more similar to the curse as it appears in Overture), etc.

 

[StekFence]

feel free to make the profiles in a sandbox and make a crt to have them added.

I’m probably gonna wait until all the god cloths come out before I even consider it, since the cutscenes and story only come out with them.

 

[StekFence]

On a different note, Hyogas ice is stupid cold. He somehow blocked time manip with a freezing aura.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

On a different note, Hyogas ice is stupid cold. He somehow blocked time manip with a freezing aura.

You're talking about Hyoga in Omega, because if it was really stupid that his ice was so cold that it even blocks Tokisada's time manipulation. Hyoga of Omega was really impressive, probably one of the strongest even among the legendaries, as he defeated Tokisada and Miller, the latter was described as Saturn's elite and the other elite, Europa, was so powerful that he even repelled an attack by Seiya and Titan without problems.

The level of the legendaries in Omega is probably this.
Seiya (full power) >> Hyoga => Shun (full power) >> Ikki >> Jabu >> Shiryu

 

[StekFence]

Speaking of Hyoga, I wonder what his Poseidon saga feat for creating a hole in ice that’s (based of my eyeballing) around 9ish feat deep, and maybye 25 feet in diameter is calced at. He did this in a flashback from before he was a bronze saint. Atomizing that much ice has got to yield some good numbers right?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Speaking of Hyoga, I wonder what his Poseidon saga feat for creating a hole in ice that’s (based of my eyeballing) around 9ish feat deep, and maybye 25 feet in diameter is calced at. He did this in a flashback from before he was a bronze saint. Atomizing that much ice has got to yield some good numbers right?

eh its not very impressive

im starting to learn there is a difference between

Atomizing as in hax (not calc'able) and Atomizing as in punching with a force that it cna break atoms (calc'able)

 

[StekFence]

So then, why are the bronzes island level becuase of a seiya atomization feat

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

So then, why are the bronzes island level becuase of a seiya atomization feat

thats a long story really

though that is beginning of the series Seiya who is just starting to learn "Cosmo."

in End of Black Saint Arc, and Start of Silver Saint Arc Seiya scales to misty who can shake Mount Fuji which is calc'able which i have done, but i need to update it with new information and recalc it.

 

[StekFence]

I see

 

[StekFence]

If Hyoga gets a episode g assassin, or Omega profile, would the fact that he froze fire, and a time hax attack count for something like physics manip?

Also, black swan can supposedly freeze fire as well

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Also, black swan can supposedly freeze fire as well

Yes, and Hyoga also freezes fire in his fight with Centaurus Babel in the original manga.

thats a long story really

though that is beginning of the series Seiya who is just starting to learn "Cosmo."

in End of Black Saint Arc, and Start of Silver Saint Arc Seiya scales to misty who can shake Mount Fuji which is calc'able which i have done, but i need to update it with new information and recalc it.

It is likely that we will have to use Misty's feat for the Silver power level, because some users have a problem with Seiya's calculation of the first chapter.

And other impressive feats such as Mayura destroying a meteorite with a casual attack and Moses splitting the sea are impossible to calculate.

Moses splits the sea.

Spoiler

Mayura destroys a meteorite.

Spoiler

Mayura destroys the Temple of Eris, but we can't see how it destroys this place completely.

Spoiler

Even if we assume that Mayura is more powerful than an average Silver Saint, Juan could stop a Mayura attack with his shield, and Georg and Juan survived one of her attacks.

Spoiler

----------------------------------------------

Does anyone remember if Omega has an impressive feat for the Silver Saints?. I only remember the Koga and Eden fight, but it's possible they were stronger than a Silver Saint in this fight.


And Yuna against her teacher Pavlin (the clash of their attacks disperses the clouds in the area), but she was stronger than an average Silver Saint (she even died fighting three Silver Saints).



Episode.G has no impressive feats for the Silver Saints and TLC has no impressive feats even for the Gold Saints.

Kurumada forgets about the rest of the army for his work due to his fanboyism for the Gold Saints and Dark Wing does not even mention the existence of warriors other than the Gold Saints.

 

[StekFence]

So, if any silvers do get a good feat, we can divide by a hundred for bronze seiya

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

from memory they only real calc'able feat is Manga Misty.

Does the anime of the classic series have anything?

 

[StekFence]

Idk

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Does the anime of the classic series have anything?

No, and the anime even removes Misty and Moses' feats of the manga. I think the best feat for the Silver Saints in the anime is that they are stronger than the Steel Saints who have mini black holes in their armor.

Some weaker Saints in the anime have some feats.

Shiryu's fight against the Black Dragon.


Ikki (in the anime he was weaker than the Silver Saints) destroys a part of a small hill with his Hō Yoku Tenshō.


Crystal (weakened and almost dead) knocks down an ice pyramid with his attack.



Even the new Netflix anime has more impressive feats for the Silver Saints. With Misty destroying the volcano where the Bronze Saints fought Ikki and the Black Saints.

The Silver Saints are the most discriminated part of Athena's army in the franchise, if a Silver Saint does not have a level close to a Gold Saint it is not important. And the funny thing is, it was probably the Bronze and Silver Saints who defeated the army of Poseidon, Ares and others in the ancient wars. Because in Zero, Kurumada confirms that the Gold Saints are only born and appear in the Sanctuary for the holy war against Hades.

---

Does anyone remember any lifting strength feats for the Bronze and Silver Saint, in the wiki profiles they are class 100, but I don't remember any feats at that level.

I think the most impressive feat of lifting strength for warriors of this level was Cassius lifting some big weights in the anime.


And Teneo (as an apprentice) lifts a large stone in his training.

Spoiler

----------------------------

A feat of TLC that is not an anti-feat for a change. The most impressive thing is that it is a feat of Teneo, the guy who is so pathetic that even as Gold Saints he can't stop a small collapse.

Spoiler

Any Chunin in Naruto could stop the second collapse easily, but not a Gold Saint like Teneo.

 

[StekFence]

I would scour the anime for feats, but that would take a while, and I’m kinda busy

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

A question.

Why does Poseidon's Mariners get powerscaling from the Gold Saints?

When Poseidon's army is absurdly weaker than the Gold Saints. Even Kurumada confirms in Zero that the Golden Saints are only born and appear for the holy war against Hades.

Tethys herself says that Poseidon's army is weaker than the Saints.

Aiolia literally says that just two Gold Saints (him and Milo) are enough to defeat Poseidon's army.

The most powerful of the Marines is Sorrento and he was only able to fight Aldebaran thanks to a hax technique, and the conditions of the fight, Aldebaran could not retreat from the place to get out of the range of the music, because he had to protect the Bronze Saints.

They are also described as MFTL, when in the manga they are described as only reaching close to the speed of light.