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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

StekFence said:
Are there any non Athena chars who have sealing?
Click to expand...
Eris and Deathmask can seal, Deathmask trapped the souls of the people he killed in the faces inside his temple and Eris sealed Athena's soul on one occasion. Thanatos mentions that he will trap Seiya's soul in another dimension, where he will be eternally tortured. The Tartarus is a prison built by Hades to seal and trap the soul of Asclepius forever. The Omerta of Deathtoll traps and seals the opponent inside.
TheUnshakableOne said:
Technically all.the gods should it to some degree. But you mean not gods though? Weakened Yoma can
Click to expand...
Only Athena, Eris, Hades, Zeus (Episode.G), Thanatos and Hypnos (in the animated continuity, Odin, Loki, Mars and Abzu also seem to have had sealing abilities) have shown some sealing power, other gods (Titans, Primordials, Giants and Cyclops) have not shown that ability, so it is not a general ability of all gods.

Kairos has no sealing ability, it only creates a time seal, which does not seal anything and only stops time in a larger area (an area of tens of meters). In short, it is only a power to increase the range of his time stop, which normally only affect an area of a few meters.
 
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Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
Eris and Deathmask can seal, Deathmask trapped the souls of the people he killed in the faces inside his temple and Eris sealed Athena's soul on one occasion. Thanatos mentions that he will trap Seiya's soul in another dimension, where he will be eternally tortured. The Tartarus is a prison built by Hades to seal and trap the soul of Asclepius forever. The Omerta of Deathtoll traps and seals the opponent inside.

Only Athena, Eris, Hades, Zeus (Episode.G), Thanatos and Hypnos (in the animated continuity, Odin, Loki, Mars and Abzu also seem to have had sealing abilities) have shown some sealing power, other gods (Titans, Primordials, Giants and Cyclops) have not shown that ability, so it is not a general ability of all gods.

Kairos has no sealing ability, it only creates a time seal, which does not seal anything and only stops time in a larger area (an area of tens of meters). In short, it is only a power to increase the range of his time stop, which normally only affect an area of a few meters.
Click to expand...
Didn't Yoma in the Gaiden create a temporal displacement seal on the Aries gold cloth?
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
Didn't Yoma in the Gaiden create a temporal displacement seal on the Aries gold cloth?
Click to expand...
No, it's just a time seal, which increases the range of his time power (because his time power has a mediocre range without these seals), that's why it traps that small town in another dimension where time was frozen in some areas, but it doesn't seal the Cloth in any way, even Avenir's cosmos in the Cloth calls Shion and Manigoldo to that city.

And Kairos is not a mortal, he is a god who is forced to reincarnate in a human, this is similar to Athena only that she reincarnates in this way to understand humans and he is forced to reincarnate in this way. A mediocre and pathetic god, but still a god.

Does anyone know why this weak god gets powerscaling from Hypnos and Thanatos?. These two gods are much more powerful and important to the structure of the universe (as the gods who rule over death and sleep) than Kairos.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Mephistopheles Yoma

Only found in Lost Canvas, Heavenly Chief Star, Mephistopheles Yōma (天魁星メフィストフェレスの杳馬 Tenkaisei Mefisutoferesu no Yōma?) is a Specter. He appears before Gemini Aspros to thwart his attempt on Hades' life, as he seeks revenge for his reincarnation on Earth. It is later revealed that Yoma is...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
He is such a weak god that he even considers the power of Pegasus (Tenma is probably the weakest God Saint in the franchise and infinitely weaker than Seiya) as awesome and a weapon to kill the Olympian Gods. He also didn't have the power to destroy the Aries Cloth, that's why he used the time seal, and could only damage the Aries Cloth when Shion (rookie) used this armor, and he has problems fighting against Teneo (the weakest Gold Saint). In addition, he was completely obliterated by the glow of the Athena Cloth (after the death of the goddess and the disappearance of her cosmos from the world) in the form of statue (the weakest form of this armor), an armor that Thanatos can destroy in his true form after awakening by Athena's blood.

In short:
God Saints => Thanatos and Hypnos >>>> Seiya with Gold Cloth (Poseidon Arc) >>>> Tenma with God Cloth >>>>>>>>>>> Kairos/Youma.

The Twin Gods were not much weaker than the God Saints. Seiya and the others could only defeat the Twin Gods after observing their techniques and adapting (because an attack doesn't work twice against a Saint), but Hypnos was even able to defeat Shun with God Cloth in their fight.
 
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StekFence said:
Isn’t that power null?
Click to expand...
Yes, it's probably power null and not sealed. Also, it's an ability that Alone used through his paints (Hades doesn't use paints) and he needed to get Athena's hair to seal the goddess's power, for some silly reason unique to this manga, probably Shiori believed that Athena's hair was related to her power or something like that.

Although, Hades probably does have some sealing ability, because he sealed and trapped Asclepius' soul in the Tartarus (a prison in the world of the dead created for the worst human).
 
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Episode.G Requiem 18
mangacross.jp

聖闘士星矢EPISODE.Gレクイエム

聖闘士星矢EPISODE.Gレクイエム by チャンピオンクロス。地上が絶望に覆われてゆく…。陥落する聖域を前に、射手座の黄金聖闘士を継承した星矢は、アテナ神殿に囚われたアテナ沙織を救出するために、最大最後の闘いに挑む!「EPISODE.G」シリーズ、衝撃の最終章が開幕!!
mangacross.jp mangacross.jp


Portuguese translation by Wan.
Capítulo 18 - O rei que controla as espadas sagradas

Página 1

Shura: O que se reflete nos seus olhos, se repetindo várias vezes é a destruição e morte.

Aiolos: Oh, agora eu vejo o quanto que eu estava errado... Tal mundo... Tal futuro... Um final tão triste. Eu não queria isso.

★ Essa é a trágica história do Aiolos que aconteceu em outra dimensão!

Página 2

Aiolos: Eu não posso mais me matar... Eu quero que você acabe com tudo aqui... Se houver um jeito, por favor, você pode corrigir os erros do meu futuro? Quero um futuro brilhante onde todos possam sorrir numa terra que pode ter a chamada "paz" verdadeira.

Página 3

Aiolos: Quero que você preserve o "herói" do amanhã.
Nunca... Não consigo ler o futuro!

Página 4

Shura: Mesmo que você caia em uma terra infinita que nunca pode voltar.

Seiya: Shura ... Além do tempo... Você... Você veio para proteger o futuro...? Tanto seu Cloth quanto o corpo mostram que você vem de uma longa luta... você não voltou ao passado para que possamos viver no futuro, escolhendo cair no meio do tempo...

Página 05

Seiya: E tornou-se Shura (anti-deus), aquele que luta para sempre para salvar o "presente" infinitamente...?
Seiya: Shura...!?
Shura: Não se mova, Seiya. Tente se recuperar um pouco agora... Eu não vou posso ficar muito tempo em um mesmo eixo temporal.

Páginas 06-07

Shura: O "tempo" não pode ser desperdiçado.

Brontes: MUGEN KOUDOU (Caminho da Luz Infinita)

Shura: Todos os caminhos carmesins (de luz) se agrupam em um único ponto. Seu poder de taque foi aumentado em várias dezenas de vezes. A ligação do meu braço direito quase se destruiu na "Ex-machina" anterior. Não tenho como garantir que ela será liberada outra vez.

Páginas 08-09

Brontes: MUKEN KOUKYUU (Bola de Luz Infinita) 無間紅球

Shura: O calor da bola vermelha excede o limite físico com aproximadamente 5.700K. Não posso usar o meu braço direito agora. Então agora é a hora de liberar todo o poder que abrigo em mim. Convoco em nome do rei...

Página 10

Shura: Manifeste-se, Alice!

ESPADA VORPAL!

Shura: Se você insisti nisso...

Brontes: Minha MUEN KOUKYUU foi parada!? Ahhh...

Página 11

REVERSÃO TEMPORAL

Brontes: Só o tempo da bola vermelha parou e aos poucos o tempo está retrocedendo. Um fluxo repetido no intervalo entre os tempos. Ouvi dizer que existe aquele que continua a lutar e se opor aos deus, vivendo em uma variedade de mundos e em diversas dimensões.

Páginas 12-13

Shura: Manifestes-te, Roland!

Brontes: Aquele que carrega consigo todas as "espadas sagradas".

DURANDAL

Páginas 14-15

SEIKEN KITSURITSU (IMPONENTE ESPADA SAGRADA)

Brontes: Esse espadachim têm as espadas sagradas de quem derrotou nas múltiplas dimensões. Ele as usa como servos e as fazem lutar... Esse homem é o rei que controla as espadas sagradas. Mas mesmo com várias espadas sagradas, a minha bola vermelha é indestrutível.

Páginas 16-17

Brontes: A conexão que forma do braço esquerdo é significativamente reduzida... Se você continuar a usá-lo por mais tempo, ele será destruído neste eixo do tempo. A única coisa que você deve fazer é retirar-se daqui.

Páginas 18-19

EXCALIBUR

Brontes: Esse homem... É um ser que tem um poder contraindicado. Você não apenas absorveu o poder de luta em muitos mundos dimensionais e o usa como sua própria espada, mas também tem um poder que é impossível para os humanos.

Página 20

A insanidade do meu poder é assimilada pelo meu eu multidimensional.

Restam aproximadamente 80 segundos. COSMO EM POTÊNCIA TOTAL.

★ Queime o Cosmo até o último momento para o "amanhã"!!

Brontes' attack (more powerful than that of a normal Gold Saint) only reaches a temperature of 5,700K, and Kokuto (Saga) mentions that Shura's arm cannot withstand that temperature.
Page 08
Kokuto: 紅球の熱量は物理限界を超えている、約五千七百K
Kokuto: 今の右腕では受けきれぬぞ

This confirms that Gold Saints do not withstand millions of degrees Celsius, and their resistance is less than 5000 degrees Celsius.

Another resistance that needs to be changed, as I had indicated it was simply a bad translation of Episode.G (Original), so I think all the Episode.G (Original) information needs to be removed from the pages, the translation of this manga is horrible.

Shura protagonist of Assassin needs his own page. The guy is awesome.

Shura exists outside of time and space, and has the power to travel to other worlds. He killed Aiolos (Lost World) and defeated the Gladiators, and now has the power of the swords of all the Gladiators and the power of King Arthur.

Alice's sword, Vorpal, has the power to manipulate time and can reverse time in a small area to stop the enemy's attack.
Page 10
Shura: アリス顕現
Shura: ケシニング乃剣 (ボーパルブレード)
Shura(?): しょうがないなあ
Brontes: 我が無間紅球が...
Brontes: 静止する...!?
Brontes: いや...

Page 11
Shura(?): 逆転刻
Brontes: 紅球の刻だけが停止し、僅かだが
Brontes: 時間が巻き戻っている
Brontes: 刻の狭間で流転を繰り返し
Brontes: 闘い続け神に抗う者がいると聞いた
Brontes: 流転する様々な世界を生きる事で
Brontes: 他の次元に存在する...

Although it is likely that we will just have to rename this page and add the new abilities of this version of Shura, since this page describes Shura from Assassin and not Shura from the main universe.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Capricorn Shura

Capricorn Shura is the Gold Saint in the constellation Capricorn in Saint Seiya. Tier: At least 3-C, Low 2-C when using his full power | Low 2-C Key: Base | 8th Sense Name: Capricorn Shura Origin: Saint Seiya Gender: Male Age: 16 (Episode G), 23 - 27 (Classic) Classification: Human, Gold Saint...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Last edited:
Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
Episode.G Requiem 18
mangacross.jp

聖闘士星矢EPISODE.Gレクイエム

聖闘士星矢EPISODE.Gレクイエム by チャンピオンクロス。地上が絶望に覆われてゆく…。陥落する聖域を前に、射手座の黄金聖闘士を継承した星矢は、アテナ神殿に囚われたアテナ沙織を救出するために、最大最後の闘いに挑む!「EPISODE.G」シリーズ、衝撃の最終章が開幕!!
mangacross.jp mangacross.jp


Brontes' attack (more powerful than that of a normal Gold Saint) only reaches a temperature of 5,700K, and Kokuto (Saga) mentions that Shura's arm cannot withstand that temperature.
Page 08
Kokuto: 紅球の熱量は物理限界を超えている、約五千七百K
Kokuto: 今の右腕では受けきれぬぞ

This confirms that Gold Saints do not withstand millions of degrees Celsius, and their resistance is less than 5000 degrees Celsius.

Another resistor that needs to be changed, as I had indicated it was simply a bad translation of Episode.G (Original), so I think all the Episode.G (Original) information needs to be removed from the pages, the translation of this manga is horrible.

Shura protagonist of Assassin needs his own page. The guy is awesome.
Click to expand...

Tbh i agree at this point episode G stuff should get nuked. The only thing that should be used is the BR-portuguese abd Spanish versions. The BR version iirc was an official translations. The raw should always take precedence though. But if the raws get something drastically different than 4 other languages which those 4 say the same thing. Then we have a whole other issue...

Edit: yeah all assassin characters should get their own pages. Their wholly different except the Gods.
 
Interesting. I think profiles for the Black Saints could interesting too. the good thing is they aren’t carbon copies of the bronze. For the most part
 
Make a profile for tatsumi so the ever controversial Tatsumi V Hercule will be real. This will truly reignite the flames of ss vs db
 
It is likely that we will have to change the level of the Gold Saints.

The Gold Saints are 2-C in the Wiki profiles, but the justification for this level has some problems.
This is the topic that started this.
But many of these feats have problems with the translation.

Let's start with this.
The Light Novels
[...]
Click to expand...
I was never able to get the raws of these novels, so it is impossible to verify the translation of this scene.

Aries Mu fights a God that can create universes. Episode G Chapter 48; and Chapter 11.

Aries Mu created a Universe, and had his power compared to a universe by a being who can create universes.
Click to expand...
This part is Episode.G and has translation problems, the manga never says that Mu will create a universe and it also never says that Iapetos will create a universe (it only creates a rift to a dimension of unknown size).

Aiolia’s Photon Burst has multiple statements of having the power of the Big Bang. This also gets directly stated in the series at chapter 58, and the Encyclopedia source also has multiple statements on this.
Click to expand...
This part is fine. But it doesn't describe in detail the context of that big bang, and it can be like the big bang that Seiya used against Aldebaran, or the internal big bang that even a Bronze Saint can reach. Also, it is only the description of a databook, because in the manga this technique is described with the power of a supernova.

Aiolia’s Photon Burst is compared to Saga’s Galaxian Explosion.
Click to expand...
In this scene, Saga describes his Galaxian Explosion as having the power of a supernova, so it is not universal in any way.
ZG4jyni.jpg

Even in Assassin, Saga describes his technique as having the power to destroy worlds, not galaxies or universes.
HFXz3Ve.jpg

PDApoVJ.jpg
Tenma Kofuku is also compared to both the Big Bang and Galaxian Explosion.
Click to expand...
As I explained before, this is a mistranslation and only describes that the Tenma Kofuku is comparable to Galaxian Explosion.

Aries Shion had his power compared to the “Recreation and destruction of the Universe.”
Click to expand...
This is a good example, and probably one of the few descriptions that could be an example for the Gold Saints as universal level.

Leo Aiolia was able to break Soma. A divine weapon that Gaia made for Hyperion.
Click to expand...
I don't know how this confirms the level of the Gold Saints as universal, when the Titans are weak among the gods.

Saint Seiya Next Dimension = Shijma and Shaka destroy and create Universes. Saint Seiya Next Dimension Chapter 57 and 58
Click to expand...
This is probably the best example for the Gold Saints as 2-C.


In summary, only two of these examples are fine and the rest have problems, and those two examples can be considered as an Outlier for the power of the Gold Saints.

In ND, we can see that the Gold Saints and Papa of the Sanctuary fear the destruction of the universe and are willing to kill their goddess to prevent it.

The Gold Saints are likely to return to 4-C (Star) or 3-C (Galaxy) level.

What is your opinion on this topic?
 
Last edited:
Tbh omega also said the Big bang created the Macrocosmo. Then you have Saturn scaling from Abzu aimed Saturn's end of time domain. Which scales to this big bang.

Hence, the reason I'm looking to calc some Gokd Saint stuff but tbh

They may get a "varied" tier in the future possibly still looking into things.
 
Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
n ND, we can see that the Gold Saints and Papa of the Sanctuary fear the destruction of the universe and are willing to kill their goddess to prevent it.
Click to expand...
I don't think fearing the destruction of the universe changes anything, there's 100's of reasons they may fear the destruction, none of them having anything to do with ap/durability.

Also, most of your critiques are literally brought up in a thread where they were discussed in length and if you actually read the profiles, you'd see that the justification is based on the power of the 7th sense. GE, TK and other saints unique abilities don't play any kind of role. in their tier past "galaxy level normally".

I do agree however, the justification needs to be reworded to "low 2-C via miracles" not "at maximum power", as all the low 2-C feats for 7th sense saints are that, via miracles. Any and every 7th sense Saint should be capable of it.

Saga for example:

At least Galaxy level, Universe level+ when using his maximum power (The Galaxian Explosion is equal to Leo Aiolia's Photon Burst. The Galaxian explosion had its power compared Virgo Shaka's Tenma Kofuku. The power of the 7th sense is comparable to The Big Bang that created Time, alongside the Universe. Gold Saints are also stated to be capable of destroying the Universe.)



I highlighted the components for you so there's no misinterpretation here. red is the justification for galaxy level. Green is justification for low 2-C.

And so there's no more ambiguity, it's verbatim stated "the 7th sense is the power to create miracles...... 7th sense pushed to it's climax can reach energies comparable to the primordial big bang". Even Shaka and Shijima's feat was considered a miracle, and they did this upwards of 10,000 times (depending on the translations) in succession.

As for the "supernova" stuff, the term supernova is used in the manga to mean "big explosion", the databook for G directly states that the photon burst is a supernova EQUAL to the Big Bang. NOT "big bang equal to a supernova". This interpretation is also consistent with GE being compared to a supernova but having the power to destroy galaxies. That being said, this interpretation comes from the BR translation of G and it's databook which to be frank, is awful and virtually useless IMO.


I think if we got the raws, it's more than likely true the big bang statements for photon burst will actually say "galaxy" or something along those lines, as it seems that the BR translator was quite liberal with the translations of the Japanese. This is more than evident with Mu destroying a "universe", which whilst is a valid interpretation of what happened (from a non-power scaling perspective), nothing in the kanji indicated it was universal in size, thus changing the quantification of the feat.

As for Saga, the English scanlations are vastly different and I have no idea if it's translated from the raws or the BR/spanish/french, but they unequivocally say Saga is galaxy level:





Regardless, I hear the person who translated the second half of GA will be translating all of G from the raws, so a more accurate translation of the manga will hopefully start releasing soon.

As for GA Saga, it doesn't matter he doesn't have a profile and is more than likely a completely different Saga than any we've seen before, but there are potential issues with the interpretation he's planetary from those statements as well.
 
Miracles are a passive though.. their a multipurpose ability from fate manipulation to stat amp and probability manipulation..

miracles are also a "variable" as they an allow someone to be "on par/comaprable with" or "Surpass" the gods.

And if the maximum extent of the 7th sense creates miracles then some characters would scale becuase they "tanked" or "survived" a "max power" attack form a 7th sese user.
 
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