-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)
- Thread starter TheUnshakableOne
- Start date
-
- Tags
- saint seiya
- 6,429
- 2,440
I actually havent seen much related to the animated stuff here
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,243
- 4,066
depends, I generally treat the senses as universal (as in they're the same) across all media but some don't like that idea.
You're free to bring stuff up
- 6,429
- 2,440
If ur asking about the god warriors, yes they scale. At least to the 7th sense bronzes, similar to the mariners.
- 1,034
- 231
The problem is that none of them can stop the destruction of the universe. Also, the destruction of the universe will destroy the Sanctuary and kill them all, therefore, this indicates that they cannot survive a power of that level, that's why they are even willing to kill the goddess they have to protect and the only hope of the world.
In addition, the Athena Exclamation is the ultimate power and technique of the Gold Saints, the power of three Gold Saints combined, a technique that is described with the power of a big bang, therefore the power of three Gold Saints combined is only equivalent to the big bang that created the universe.
Most Gold Saints cannot reach that level of power with a miracle. Only the Bronze Saints achieved that power with a miracle and fought against the gods, and even overcame Hypnos and Thanatos in the end, two gods far superior in power to the Gold Saints.
Ikki mentions that Poseidon had the highest cosmos he had felt up to that point, and this was before the god fully awakened.
Poseidon (fully awake and amplified by fury, with a cosmos that covered the universe, probably at universe level) >>>>> Poseidon (fully awake) >>>>> Poseidon (at the beginning of the fight) >>>>>> Gold Saints.
The power of the Gold Saints does not seem to be on the universal level, especially when in the main universe they are shown to be much weaker than the gods and can only fight the gods with Sacred Treasures or combining their cosmos.
Saga never achieved universal level power in the manga, he could not even defend himself against a goddess like Keres, who only used and humiliated him all his life.
Miracles to the point of challenging gods like Poseidon, Thanatos and Hypnos are something exclusive to the Bronze Saints, and the Gold Saints never achieved power of that level. Maybe only with the 8th sense (the ultimate sense in the main universe), but this is speculative, since they did not fight a god after awakening that sense and all died in the explosion of the Wailing Wall, and Athena stopped Shaka's fight against Hades.
It is just an internal big bang in their body, because they have a mini universe inside their body and the Saints get that power by exploding that internal universe, this is the cosmos of the Saints and their power, but this does not mean that all Saints are universal level. Even Bronze Saints without 7th Sense can achieve a big bang and this does not indicate that they are universal, because it is an internal big bang in their bodies and cosmos.
The only technique that is described as a big bang similar to the force that created the universe is the Athena Exclamation, and this technique the combined power of three Gold Saints.
It is only described with the power of a supernova in the manga, where Saga says that his Galaxian Explosion is comparable to a supernova, even the Galaxian Encyclopedia also mentions this comparison. And about the description of the technique as a galaxy destroyer, that description changed in the sequel, where Saga describes that technique as a power to destroy worlds, not galaxies or universes, and this is a version of Saga that uses this technique to stop an attack by Aiolos (Lost World).
The power of Angyo and Ungyo is one of the few descriptions that could really confirm that the Gold Saints are universal, but considering that the rest of the Gold Saints are not described with that level of power it could be seen as an Outlier. It is likely that it is also something exclusive to Shaka and Shijima's power, and that the rest of the Gold Saints won't get powerscaled with them (maybe only Cain because he is the most powerful Gold Saint).
Last edited:
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,243
- 4,066
literally nothing you mentioned is a problem for the scaling. Most Gold Saints not achieving a miracle =/= they can't. We know from the Toei timeline Gold Saints are able to raise their cosmo infinitely and attain the God cloth, keep in mind, the god cloth in and of itself can be seen as a state of prolonged "miracle", as there are close connections between infinite cosmo and miracles throughout the franchise.
Also, the base stats of Saints don't scale to miracles... like... miracles by definition cannot be an outlier. The only reason they're worth noting is due to the fact the 7th sense has very specific statements regarding the potential for miracles being Big Bang strong. If it wasn't so specific, they wouldn't be worth quantifying and putting on the profiles.
1) The universe is dying due to a temporal anomaly/time shit, that has nothing to do with the ap of anyone.
2) no human in saint seiya has shown the ability to survive indefinitely in space with no sort of matter ANYWHERE in the universe, they'd die due to the effects of the universe being destroyed, not the destruction itself.
3) There's also the possibility the gold cloths have universal durability, but the saints inside them don't (i.e. Cain and Odysseus, Cain reduced Ody to blood on the wall but the cloth wasn't even scratched).
4) You can argue Sanc and poseidons sanc have 2-C durability anyway due to the divine will of those gods being embedded in those structures.This is evident with the main pillar that holds the ocean (main breadwinner or whatever) has uni durability (and there's a lot of other evidence throughout the franchise that supports this idea as well). So the time shit that's going on might have higher ap than Uni, especially if it's going to kill the 2-C Athena....
Gods don't need miracles to be universal or above, they're stronk af. Humans, not so stronk = need miracles. Not that hard to understand.
Also, the base stats of Saints don't scale to miracles... like... miracles by definition cannot be an outlier. The only reason they're worth noting is due to the fact the 7th sense has very specific statements regarding the potential for miracles being Big Bang strong. If it wasn't so specific, they wouldn't be worth quantifying and putting on the profiles.
This, is also not an issue for the scaling....
1) The universe is dying due to a temporal anomaly/time shit, that has nothing to do with the ap of anyone.
2) no human in saint seiya has shown the ability to survive indefinitely in space with no sort of matter ANYWHERE in the universe, they'd die due to the effects of the universe being destroyed, not the destruction itself.
3) There's also the possibility the gold cloths have universal durability, but the saints inside them don't (i.e. Cain and Odysseus, Cain reduced Ody to blood on the wall but the cloth wasn't even scratched).
4) You can argue Sanc and poseidons sanc have 2-C durability anyway due to the divine will of those gods being embedded in those structures.This is evident with the main pillar that holds the ocean (main breadwinner or whatever) has uni durability (and there's a lot of other evidence throughout the franchise that supports this idea as well). So the time shit that's going on might have higher ap than Uni, especially if it's going to kill the 2-C Athena....
Gods don't need miracles to be universal or above, they're stronk af. Humans, not so stronk = need miracles. Not that hard to understand.
- 6,453
- 1,669
- Thread starter
- #567
Got any other scans like that because those are amazing finds?
Also Where'd you get the raws for the G-Encloypedia?
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,243
- 4,066
@Lancelot_de_Cancer please don't edit your comments mid argument. I'd rather you make a new comment so there's a flow of argumentation, I find it quite disrespectful you're changing the presentation of your arguments after I've responded.
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,243
- 4,066
I'm not even going to address your arguments. Anyone who reads the scans will see they're incoherent interpretations of the presented text.
- 1,034
- 231
This only applies to Toei Animation's timeline with Soul of Gold, and I can also say that the Gold Saints were ridiculously weak compared to the Bronze Saints with God Cloth in the Hades Arc. Miracles to achieve a power to fight with the great gods such as Poseidon, Hypnos, Thanatos and Hades was always something exclusive to the Bronze Saints in the main universe.
Speaking of animated continuity. Amor, one of the most powerful Gold Saints of Omega and the franchise in general, the guy who was so powerful that he even killed another Gold Saint with a casual attack and dominated four gods more powerful than the Gold Saints, was killed by a single blow from Abzu in the body of Koga, the only primordial god of this franchise who is really awesome and has feats that put him on a universal level. This confirms that even one of the most powerful Gold Saints is ridiculously weaker than gods of this level.
It is an atypical case, when the other Gold Saints do not show this power and none of them describe that they possess a power to destroy a universe, and only Shaka and Shijima describe that they possess that power with their two most powerful techniques, or it may also be something exclusive to these two, considering that Shaka stands out as one of the most powerful Gold Saints and the guy completely mastered the 8th Sense (the ultimate sense in the main universe).
Stopping an anomaly that is destroying the universe would not be a problem for them, since they can stop universal attacks. But they can't do it, because it is a power that even surpasses the Gold Saints.
The final battle on Saintia Sho was in the void of space, and the Gold Saints had no problem fighting in that place, and the catastrophe of the universe will also destroy the Sanctuary, a place protected by Athena's cosmos, therefore, even the Sanctuary cannot resist the destruction of the universe.
Niobe destroyed a Gold Cloth, Suikyo (near death) damaged the Gold Cloth of Libra (even the powerful shields of this armor) and Dohko overcame the power of that attack, Suikyo damaged the Gold Cloth of Taurus with his attack, Cardinale roses damaged the Gold Cloth of Virgo, etc. The Gold Cloth was never indestructible to the power of the Gold Saints. In addition, Cain was fighting against the Golden Ophiuchus, the most powerful Gold Saint (probably the most powerful Saint in Athena's entire army) and that was the legendary Gold Cloth of Ophiuchus.
That was the pillar of Poseidon after absorbing the cosmos of Athena with the death of the goddess, that is why Poseidon says that after sacrificing Athena not even the end of the universe could destroy that pillar, therefore it is the power of a god like Athena. And Seiya could only destroy that pillar with a miracle and help from Shiryu and Hyoga. No Gold Saint in the franchise scales to this level of power.
Yes, but the gods are much more powerful than the Gold Saints, and the Gold Saints cannot fight them without the help of a Sacred Treasure or combining their cosmos.
I preferred to correct it this way, so as not to make a double post (some forums have that rule, and I don't know if this forum has it).
Where is the inconsistent interpretation, when I am basing my arguments on the Japanese version of this manga and what is described in the franchise, and the justification used for the Gold Saints is wrong, because it is based on mistranslations and misinterpretation of facts, and only two of the examples could really justify that level for the Gold Saints.
Last edited:
- 6,429
- 2,440
Wdym, they owned the god warriors, they owned loki. Loki was struggling to defend against god cloth deathmask and Aphrodite attacks.
- 1,034
- 231
A god weaker than Odin, whom Hilda describes as a god weaker than Poseidon in a human body that had not yet fully awakened. In the end, Aiolia needs the power of all the God Saints, the power of the Land of Asgard and the Daupnir (a sacred treasure) to defeat him, and it is later revealed that he was not destroyed and was only sealed. Seiya, Shiryu and Hyoga killed Hypnos and Thanatos forever, and all the protagonists were infinitely stronger than in their battle with Poseidon.
Last edited:
- 6,453
- 1,669
- Thread starter
- #573
i do have sojme scans id like the raws for... they would be very helpful..
- 6,453
- 1,669
- Thread starter
- #574
PM me your discord or do you have it pinned somewhere???
- 6,453
- 1,669
- Thread starter
- #575
you have been messaged lol
- 6,453
- 1,669
- Thread starter
- #576
Found a possible new way to calc silver saint misty's feat.
if its accepted it would upgrade hsi Tarble attack to an attack speed of
8252.91244661625 mph or 13281.77512848612 km per hour
the calc has an AP feat of
KE = 0.5*353045013239190*13281.77512848612^2 = 3.113954996710918 × 10 ^ 22 Joules or 31139549967109180000000 Joules or Barely above just ******* barely above baseline Tier 6-B or Country level
if its accepted it would upgrade hsi Tarble attack to an attack speed of
8252.91244661625 mph or 13281.77512848612 km per hour
the calc has an AP feat of
KE = 0.5*353045013239190*13281.77512848612^2 = 3.113954996710918 × 10 ^ 22 Joules or 31139549967109180000000 Joules or Barely above just ******* barely above baseline Tier 6-B or Country level
- 6,453
- 1,669
- Thread starter
- #577
divide that by 100 for black saint arc Seiya (Start of Silver Saint Arc Seiya) and you get
3.113955e+20 joules or SUPER HIGH TIER Island level, or Tier 6-C
3.113955e+20 joules or SUPER HIGH TIER Island level, or Tier 6-C
- 6,453
- 1,669
- Thread starter
- #579
no idea if i did it right though sooooo lol
still trying to understand earthquake feats and mountain shaking feats lol
still trying to understand earthquake feats and mountain shaking feats lol
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,243
- 4,066
I thought they got that ability ages ago?
- 6,429
- 2,440
Also, english scan shun has this feat. Idk where they training tho so idk what sea
- 6,453
- 1,669
- Thread starter
- #588
do you know the aproximate chapter or the volume in manga where it happened?
- 6,429
- 2,440
Ye sure. chap 43. Flashback. The island is said to be in the indian Ocean off the coast of Somalia btw
- 6,453
- 1,669
- Thread starter
- #591
i'll go back and look at the details of it.
Ocean splitting have a lot of variables to consider for calcs...
Ocean splitting have a lot of variables to consider for calcs...
- 6,453
- 1,669
- Thread starter
- #592
did this ocean splitting feat of shun happen in the anime too? Been forever sense i watched it.
- 1,034
- 231
I found probably a feat or description of destructive power that the Silver Saints could scale.
In the Taizen it is described that Millis (one of the Specters that Saga, Camus and Shura killed to steal his armor) has the power to open the earth, and would sink the Sanctuary into the ground after the Specters killed Athena (probably when the Sanctuary lost the protection of the goddess's cosmos with her death and all the Temple guardians were defeated).
後方集団を務めていた事が災いし、オクスと同じく、シュラに冥衣を剥ぎ取られた冥闘士。大地を引き裂く技で、女神抹殺後の聖域を地に沈める役目を担っていた。
Translation in Spanish and Portuguese.
---------------------------------------------------
Most Specters are on the level of Silver and Bronze Saints (even a doped up lion like Goldie destroys a squad of Specters with ease), so a Silver Saint could get the power scale of this power description from a Specter like Millis.
Also a Silver Saint like Juan can create a storm.
Also, Shun never used his true power in this test.
In the Taizen it is described that Millis (one of the Specters that Saga, Camus and Shura killed to steal his armor) has the power to open the earth, and would sink the Sanctuary into the ground after the Specters killed Athena (probably when the Sanctuary lost the protection of the goddess's cosmos with her death and all the Temple guardians were defeated).
後方集団を務めていた事が災いし、オクスと同じく、シュラに冥衣を剥ぎ取られた冥闘士。大地を引き裂く技で、女神抹殺後の聖域を地に沈める役目を担っていた。
Translation in Spanish and Portuguese.
---------------------------------------------------
Most Specters are on the level of Silver and Bronze Saints (even a doped up lion like Goldie destroys a squad of Specters with ease), so a Silver Saint could get the power scale of this power description from a Specter like Millis.
Also a Silver Saint like Juan can create a storm.
Splitting the sea and breaking free from the indestructible chains of Andromeda is a test for a Bronze Saint, therefore, all Silver Saints must scale this feat.
Last edited:
- 6,453
- 1,669
- Thread starter
- #594
The sea splitting a part is calcable but it has a lot of assumptions due to poor visualization
The storm one i might attempt to do. Might take me a month to get right though
The storm one i might attempt to do. Might take me a month to get right though
- 6,429
- 2,440
How far along are u with the calc
- 1,034
- 231
Does anyone have a list of all the feats that could be considered universal scale in this franchise?.
I remember some famous feats like Poseidon's cosmos encompassing the universe, Seiya destroys Poseidon's pillar (which could withstand the destruction of the universe), Hades created the world of the dead and this place was completely destroyed with his death, and I would probably also include Shaka and Shijima's fight where they destroy and create countless universes.
Series like The Lost Canvas (Main Manga and Gaidens), Episode.G, Assassin and Requiem (The 19 Chapters that have been published so far) do not have feats of this level.
Saintia Sho has this Eris feat.
www.fanverse.org
Omega has the description of Abzu as the creator of the universe, he is also the only god in the franchise who is older than the universe.
Figure Oh Magazine Nº220
宇宙と人類を創造した闇の絶対神。光牙の身体を寄り代に復活し、宇宙を光が誕生する以前の姿に 戻そうとした。
It is described that Saturn stopped the time of the universe.
Figure Oh Magazine Nº220
刻闘士の真の主たる刻の神。昴の姿から覚醒し、全宇宙の時間を止める。技:クロノコンクルージョンエターナル。
Dark Wing has the destruction of the Underworld by the divine lightning of Athena/purifying flames of Athena.
Is the Underworld still considered as a universe for the description of universe in the Wiki?.
Does anyone remember another feat of universal scale in the franchise?.
I remember some famous feats like Poseidon's cosmos encompassing the universe, Seiya destroys Poseidon's pillar (which could withstand the destruction of the universe), Hades created the world of the dead and this place was completely destroyed with his death, and I would probably also include Shaka and Shijima's fight where they destroy and create countless universes.
Series like The Lost Canvas (Main Manga and Gaidens), Episode.G, Assassin and Requiem (The 19 Chapters that have been published so far) do not have feats of this level.
Saintia Sho has this Eris feat.
General Saint Seiya Discussion Thread: Ultimate Galaxian Quality #2
New Requiem Chapter! whats with Aldebaran's horn? anyone can give us a summary?
www.fanverse.org
Omega has the description of Abzu as the creator of the universe, he is also the only god in the franchise who is older than the universe.
Figure Oh Magazine Nº220
宇宙と人類を創造した闇の絶対神。光牙の身体を寄り代に復活し、宇宙を光が誕生する以前の姿に 戻そうとした。
It is described that Saturn stopped the time of the universe.
Figure Oh Magazine Nº220
刻闘士の真の主たる刻の神。昴の姿から覚醒し、全宇宙の時間を止める。技:クロノコンクルージョンエターナル。
Dark Wing has the destruction of the Underworld by the divine lightning of Athena/purifying flames of Athena.
Chapter 3:
-----------------------------------------------
Chapter 8:
Eito: この「神の雷」は今、貴様らの巣である冥界を穿っているのだからな
Charlotte: 冥界に直接の攻撃を...!?
Eito: それに、 俺はあの「紛い物」をアテナとは認めん
Charlotte: カトレアさんが紛い物...?
-----------------------------------------------
Chapter 8:
Eito: この「神の雷」は今、貴様らの巣である冥界を穿っているのだからな
Charlotte: 冥界に直接の攻撃を...!?
Eito: それに、 俺はあの「紛い物」をアテナとは認めん
Charlotte: カトレアさんが紛い物...?
Does anyone remember another feat of universal scale in the franchise?.
Last edited:
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,243
- 4,066
I'm currently working on a revision.
- 6,429
- 2,440
I’m not aware of anymore myselfDoes anyone have a list of all the feats that could be considered universal scale in this franchise?.
I remember some famous feats like Poseidon's cosmos encompassing the universe, Seiya destroys Poseidon's pillar (which could withstand the destruction of the universe), Hades created the world of the dead and this place was completely destroyed with his death, and I would probably also include Shaka and Shijima's fight where they destroy and create countless universes.
Series like The Lost Canvas (Main Manga and Gaidens), Episode.G, Assassin and Requiem (The 19 Chapters that have been published so far) do not have feats of this level.
Saintia Sho has this Eris feat.
General Saint Seiya Discussion Thread: Ultimate Galaxian Quality #2
New Requiem Chapter! whats with Aldebaran's horn? anyone can give us a summary?
Omega has the description of Abzu as the creator of the universe, he is also the only god in the franchise who is older than the universe.
Figure Oh Magazine Nº220
宇宙と人類を創造した闇の絶対神。光牙の身体を寄り代に復活し、宇宙を光が誕生する以前の姿に 戻そうとした。
It is described that Saturn stopped the time of the universe.
Figure Oh Magazine Nº220
刻闘士の真の主たる刻の神。昴の姿から覚醒し、全宇宙の時間を止める。技:クロノコンクルージョンエターナル。
Dark Wing has the destruction of the Underworld by the divine lightning of Athena/purifying flames of Athena.
Is the Underworld still considered as a universe for the description of universe in the Wiki?.Chapter 3:
-----------------------------------------------
Chapter 8:
Eito: この「神の雷」は今、貴様らの巣である冥界を穿っているのだからな
Charlotte: 冥界に直接の攻撃を...!?
Eito: それに、 俺はあの「紛い物」をアテナとは認めん
Charlotte: カトレアさんが紛い物...?
Does anyone remember another feat of universal scale in the franchise?.
- 6,429
- 2,440
I have a question tho. I seem to remember something being accepted a while back for Hypnos and Thanatos that would make them and all who scale to them low multiverse rather than Uni+. From what i can see, it was accepted but not added. Was it shot down in a different thread?
