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Erasing both body and soul = Erasing one's very existence in Saint Seiya. I would like you to explain what exactly is more primal than the soul in Sailor Moon.
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Sailor Moon vs Pegasus Seiya
- Thread starter Gojira1234
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In sailor moon, the concept of a person's existence is represented as an actual thing called star seeds. Everything has a star seed, organisms, planets, stars etc. if it exists it has a star seed.
You can destroy body and soul in Sailor Moon and still exist as just your starseed. Star seeds are created by the Galaxy Cauldron. If you have a person star seed you can manipulate their entire existance and shape it anyway you want. You can destroy starseeds losing them forever. Or you can throw that starseed back into the galaxy cauldron and it will wipe all trace of that person's existence from the timeline, even if they are accausal. (in sailor moon, you can be physically dead, soul gone, and everything but your future self can be alive as if nothing happened as long as if your starseed is safe but if your starseed is destroyed or sent back to the galaxy cauldron, you and all version of yourselves in the timeline will be gone and history rewritten)
You can destroy body and soul in Sailor Moon and still exist as just your starseed. Star seeds are created by the Galaxy Cauldron. If you have a person star seed you can manipulate their entire existance and shape it anyway you want. You can destroy starseeds losing them forever. Or you can throw that starseed back into the galaxy cauldron and it will wipe all trace of that person's existence from the timeline, even if they are accausal. (in sailor moon, you can be physically dead, soul gone, and everything but your future self can be alive as if nothing happened as long as if your starseed is safe but if your starseed is destroyed or sent back to the galaxy cauldron, you and all version of yourselves in the timeline will be gone and history rewritten)
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Honestly Seiya wins by arguments can someone tell me this, if Seiya can survive the Sword of Hades and live to tell the tale, tell me why can't he survive Sailor Moons hax. Because what I've seen from the Seiyas side they literally told everyone he wins. Still people want to call it PIS which is totally not true because the hole point of Saint Seiya is to literally defy the odds and defeat the enemy no matter how impossible it is. Also FINALLY why are people are acting like Sailor Moons hax is way better than Hades hax which is clearly not true.
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I could still argue that sufficient High-level characters in Saint Seiya can literally destroy a being's Cosmos, which is the origin of even their soul, so that is still erasure.
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In Assassin, it is so that Seiya can exist in a constant state of Miracles, which is what allows him to continuously live and fight despite still having his heart and soul tore in half by Hades' curse 24/7.
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In the last interview to Kurumada where the Kamui is mentioned. The author mentions that the Cloth of Athena is possibly the Kamui of the goddess (even the scale of Poseidon and surplice of Hades are possibly the Kamuis of the gods)..
Saint Cloth Chronicle - in August 10 of 2008 - In Spanish
┬┐Qué clase de armaduras son los Kamuis? ┬┐Podr├¡a explicar mejor su idea?
Los Kamuis son las protecciones usadas por los principales 12 dioses del Olimpo, e incluso Athena misma posee uno que le corresponde. Hice que ella portara un Cloth, porque eso me pareció m├ís cool. Sólo Athena lo llama 'Cloth', as├¡ que ese Cloth podr├¡a ser un Kamui. Incluso el Scale de Poseidon y el Surplice de Hades podr├¡an ser en realidad Kamuis. Tengo intenciones de presentar a los Kamui prontamente, as├¡ que espérenlos con ansias.
Link: https://saint-seiya-next-dimension.jimdo.com/entrevistas/saint-cloth-chronicle-2008/
The gods do not have two armor and the armor of the gods have their mythological weapons. The armor of Hades even protects his true body from the mythological time. The Kamui is only the armor of the twelve Olympians.
Saint Cloth Chronicle - in August 10 of 2008 - In Spanish
┬┐Qué clase de armaduras son los Kamuis? ┬┐Podr├¡a explicar mejor su idea?
Los Kamuis son las protecciones usadas por los principales 12 dioses del Olimpo, e incluso Athena misma posee uno que le corresponde. Hice que ella portara un Cloth, porque eso me pareció m├ís cool. Sólo Athena lo llama 'Cloth', as├¡ que ese Cloth podr├¡a ser un Kamui. Incluso el Scale de Poseidon y el Surplice de Hades podr├¡an ser en realidad Kamuis. Tengo intenciones de presentar a los Kamui prontamente, as├¡ que espérenlos con ansias.
Link: https://saint-seiya-next-dimension.jimdo.com/entrevistas/saint-cloth-chronicle-2008/
The gods do not have two armor and the armor of the gods have their mythological weapons. The armor of Hades even protects his true body from the mythological time. The Kamui is only the armor of the twelve Olympians.
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No it isn't. Kurumada said that their armor is "possibly" their Kamui in a vague answer. Meanwhile, the Official Encyclopedia makes it very clear that Athena's God Cloth, Poseidon's Scale, etc are not their mythological Kamui.
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The official encyclopedia only indicates a vague answer (in the form of a question). In this vague answer the armor of Hades is not mentioned. In the official interview to Kurumada the author indicates that cloth, surplice, scale of the gods are possibly his kamuis. In this case, the Taizen was published in 2002 and the interview was published in 2008. The most recent information of the principal author of the franchise is more important.
The Kamui is only the name given to the armor used by the Olympic Gods. The Cloth, Scale and Surplice are the armors of the Olympic Gods: Hades, Athena, Poseidon as Kurumada mentions. The gods do not have two armor. In the history does not mention that Athena or Poseidon own another armor (even their armor has the mythological weapons of the gods: the trident, aegis and nike).
The armor/kamui of Artemis is similar to the Cloth of Athena in color. The color of the God Cloth (true) is similar in the Manga to the kamui/armor of Athena and Artemis. Tanathos confuses the God Cloth with the Kamui (when he sees them for the first time).
The goddess Artemis is presented in Chapter 15 of Next Dimension. The chapter 15 was published in February 02 of 2009, is only six months after of the interview to Kurumada. In the interview the author mentions that he would soon introduce the kamuis to the history.
The Kamui is only the name given to the armor used by the Olympic Gods. The Cloth, Scale and Surplice are the armors of the Olympic Gods: Hades, Athena, Poseidon as Kurumada mentions. The gods do not have two armor. In the history does not mention that Athena or Poseidon own another armor (even their armor has the mythological weapons of the gods: the trident, aegis and nike).
The armor/kamui of Artemis is similar to the Cloth of Athena in color. The color of the God Cloth (true) is similar in the Manga to the kamui/armor of Athena and Artemis. Tanathos confuses the God Cloth with the Kamui (when he sees them for the first time).
The goddess Artemis is presented in Chapter 15 of Next Dimension. The chapter 15 was published in February 02 of 2009, is only six months after of the interview to Kurumada. In the interview the author mentions that he would soon introduce the kamuis to the history.
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Don't derail the topic, please. Talk about this elsewhere.
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The Gods have two armors. Get over it. Won't discuss this anymore.
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Can we please stop talking about the kamuis and go back to the fight?
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Pretty sure fate manipulation that can affects acausals and existence erasure that affects those who are immune to it can beat Seiya
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^ so is that a vote for Usagi?
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Seiya would already by immune to existence erasure because he literally fought of the effects of Hades sword and can still fight quite well. Fate Manipulation isent new in Saint Seiya and it's not like he is not going to servive it and his reactive evolution would adapt/understand /cancel/ become inume to it thanks to his miracles. Which I can remember he can stay in a constant state of miricles for a long time.
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Did you not read what I wrote? I didn't say Moon Moon wins because of existence erasure. I said she wins because of existence erasure that can erase people who are immune to existence erasure.
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Define "immune", cause that is a severe NLF.
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Like people said above, Moon has the powers of Sailor Chaos, who had merged with the Galaxy Cauldron, which could casually erase acasual low 2-C beings from time. That really shouldn't be possible, considering the nature of acausality.
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If they're affected by it they're not immune
Also that's completely possible.
Also that's completely possible.
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Acausality is a power like any other, it's not absolute.
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@Prom. Doesn't Saint Seiya do the same thing though? With the acausality and being affected by abilities that shouldn't affect acausals (fate and causality manipulation).
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Well like Matt said above, a person being immune to existence erasure is NLF. So why is Seiya being immune to it an argument on this thread? (looking at you, BiasedHater). Reactive Evolution is also a massive NLF, it isn't as if Doomsday could evolve to resist fate manipulation, so why would Seiya be able to?
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From what I've been told, Seiya has better RE than Doomsday anyway so it doesn't matter there.
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It's just higher-level causality manipulation overriding it.
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That sounds a bit faulty. Like, if I'm a-fire (I know it's not a real thing. Just interpret it as acausal but for fire), and I get hurt by stronger fire, then either it was PIS that I got hurt or PIS that I was a-fire
Just realized that fireproof is a word...
Just realized that fireproof is a word...
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Just to clarify: Sailor Moon had to weaken Chaos enough until he was able to be erased by the Cauldron. The best I can describe it as is like resistance negation from the wiki: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Resistance_Negation
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Also, the previous point about destroying body and soul not being Mid-Godly:
Low-Godly: Able to regenerate as long as your disembodied consciousness exists/regenerate from other realms.
Mid-Godly: Able to regenerate from nothing
So Hades DOES erase your existence.
Low-Godly: Able to regenerate as long as your disembodied consciousness exists/regenerate from other realms.
Mid-Godly: Able to regenerate from nothing
So Hades DOES erase your existence.
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There have been ways in fiction to regenerate without the body or the soul, but not from complete erasure. What "parts" is Seiya made up of? Body, soul, mind, cosmos, etc?
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"Not complete erasure"
That's Mid-Godly, what Sailor Moon's strongest form has.
A bunch of characters have it in fiction, and it isn't the most impressive form of Regen.
I am just saying that Seiya is constantly enduring beign erased by Hades' curse.
That's Mid-Godly, what Sailor Moon's strongest form has.
A bunch of characters have it in fiction, and it isn't the most impressive form of Regen.
I am just saying that Seiya is constantly enduring beign erased by Hades' curse.
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Being erased from body and soul and whatever else you are made of and regenerating is Mid-Godly.
Being erased from literally everything you are made of alongside your entire reality being destroyed is High-Godly.
Being erased from literally everything you are made of alongside your entire reality being destroyed is High-Godly.
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Do you think they are wanked, senpai?
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I mean going by how Hades curse is specifically described, It wouldn't stop any sailor senshi: they can exist without body and soul. The no reincarnation might put their sailor crystal out of work for future generations but that's more sentimental than an immediate threat of their existence. And they'd still could be regenerated by the lambda power as in sailor moon reincarnation and Regenerationn are two different concepts.
So seiya is resisting something that wouldn't effect sailor senshi by the nature of their experience. Also Hades has existence erasure thorugh Great Eclipse and Lost Canvas but its not listed for his divine curse.
So seiya is resisting something that wouldn't effect sailor senshi by the nature of their experience. Also Hades has existence erasure thorugh Great Eclipse and Lost Canvas but its not listed for his divine curse.
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>Point
>You
My point is that the Sailor's erasure wouldn't do shit to Seiya cause he is constantly enduring the erasure of a way stronger guy, not that Hades could permanently put them down. Although I'm fairly certain he can given that his erasure is Mid-Godly and they are Mid-Godly Regen, but his AP >>>>>>>> Them.
>You
My point is that the Sailor's erasure wouldn't do shit to Seiya cause he is constantly enduring the erasure of a way stronger guy, not that Hades could permanently put them down. Although I'm fairly certain he can given that his erasure is Mid-Godly and they are Mid-Godly Regen, but his AP >>>>>>>> Them.
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Do you not understand logic?
Hades curse as it's described wouldn't affect senshi becasue Senshi don't need body and souls. Saint Seiya resisting something that wouldn't affect sailor senshi sin't proof that he's going to reissit the level of erasure that senshi can deal out.
Senshi can literally manipulate a person's concept of existance. Destroying a soul and body doesn't equate to destroying ap erson's concept of existence. IT's not equivalent in anyway.
Espcially when Hades himself has much better and stronger and more complex erasrue feats with Lost Canvas and Great Ecipse.
Hades curse as it's described wouldn't affect senshi becasue Senshi don't need body and souls. Saint Seiya resisting something that wouldn't affect sailor senshi sin't proof that he's going to reissit the level of erasure that senshi can deal out.
Senshi can literally manipulate a person's concept of existance. Destroying a soul and body doesn't equate to destroying ap erson's concept of existence. IT's not equivalent in anyway.
Espcially when Hades himself has much better and stronger and more complex erasrue feats with Lost Canvas and Great Ecipse.
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I'm switching to inconclusive btw, I don't see anyway either has to put the other down, considering Moon's superior regen + reactive evolution but Seiya's resistances.+ reactive evolution.
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BUmp
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SO how long does it take for something to be considered inconclusive cuz that's all I'm getting from this lmao
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This is completely inconclusive. However, Seiya may become 2-C after all which would put a dent in this.
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