Sailor Moon vs Pegasus Seiya

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Sailor Moon has absolutely nothing he can do to put Seiya down. Seiya has better hax, better durability to said hax, Reactive Evolution, better Acausality, Miracles and his strongest form powerscales from people far more haxed than Sailor Moon is. Seiya survives Hades' Sword by constantly burning his Cosmos. Sure, Sailor Moon can resurrect, but that is hardly a victory if nothing she can do can put Seiya down.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

No ones on the other side has explained how Seiya is able to put down Sailor Moon permanetly. She has nine lives via the Mau crystal, and can instantly regenerate from nothing with the Lambda power. She can create mroe senshi and give them any powers as well, and share the lambda power with them giving them the same Regenerationn power, while also having the power to rip starseeds.

She has defeateed people immune to erasure. Regenerated from erasure that can erase acausual people from an entire timeline. Can literally hold your existance in your hand and recreate you at will. Can null and void fate manipulation strong enough to affect acasual beings. Not to mention time and space manipulation. And sealing abilities. And legit highend reality warping. (something seiya lacks btw)

Yeah, Seiya has miracles, what specific miracle is he going to perfrom. Miracles. And he survived Hades curse, but hades wasn't even in full power and was holding back. The very curse left him incapcitated.

 

[Gojira1234]

The rules also say that if both sides have equivalent posts with constructive arguments, the thread shall be deemed inconclusive.

Lmao at this rate we might have to deem it inconclusive. We'll see what arises.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Hades was at full power, you are clearly lying at this point to push Sailor's win. All you said about erasure and Low 2-C feats is something any random Olympian and Titan can do in Saint Seiya.

She has Nine Lives? Seiya kills her nine times. She can regenerate? Seiya kills her every time she regenerates?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Two things. Firstly, can someone please put all of Seiya's resistances on his page please? And also, why isn't Seiya 2-C?

 

[Ryukama]

And also, why isn't Seiya 2-C?

Apparently the gap between Low 2-C and 2-C is considerable enough that someone who who can control an entire timeline with a mere breath or air or heartbeat alone can't get a tier jump. With that considered, if Pegasus was able to do any sort of harm to Hades, even by very insignificant amount, I think he should be 2-C. Of course nowhere close to the extent Hades would be though.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

I don't remember Hades wearing his Kamui when the Saints and Athena fought him.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Hades was at full power, you are clearly lying at this point to push Sailor's win. All you said about erasure and Low 2-C feats is something any random Olympian and Titan can do in Saint Seiya.
She has Nine Lives? Seiya kills her nine times. She can regenerate? Seiya kills her every time she regenerates?

Hades was just awoken from his seal, and didn't even use his full power against Seiya and Athena and was holding back. And who cares about what olympians and titans can do. This seiya.

Seiya has high Regenerationn. Sailor Moon has mid godly generation. Sailor Moon only has to erase him once and hes gone. Sailor Senshi doen't even need body or souls to exist. Name one time Seiya every wiped something from existance?

You admitted that Seiya has nothing to put her down permanetly.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Ryu

Then maybe Seiya is 2-C:

http://i.imgur.com/Uslpc7d.png

 

[Ryukama]

@Matt if we're to be consistent with how we rate other Low 2-Cs and 2-Cs, I belive Seiya should be 2-C. But enough derailing the thread with that.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Lmao at this rate we might have to deem it inconclusive. We'll see what arises.

If they really don't have any way of putting each other down for good like some people are saying, it probably will.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I don't remember Hades wearing his Kamui when the Saints and Athena fought him.

He was wearing it

but Seiya didn't hurt Hades by himself. He did it with all the force of the other bronze knights with him.

And hades was going to kill him but was stopped by Athena. He was then out of the battle and incapcitated after shielding Athena from another attack from Hades, and he was down for the rest of the battle.

So this idea that because Seiya can barely fight off passive erasing effects from an attack above his tier, means he can he can outright resist a directed active erasure attack from someone at his own tier, esepcially when that person can create multiple people at the same tier to do the same attack? At equal speed? with a high Regenerationn not even low godly one?

I'm not buying it. At all.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

He was wearing it

I believe that was his Surplice. No where in his profile in mentioned his Kamui and it even says that his Kamui is currently unknown.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Two things. Firstly, can someone please put all of Seiya's resistances on his page please? And also, why isn't Seiya 2-C?

I would like this too.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I believe that was his Surplice. No where in his profile in mentioned his Kamui and it even says that his Kamui is currently unknown.

Yeah, his profile clearly say that it was his Surplice.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

He was wearing it

I believe that was his Surplice. No where in his profile in mentioned his Kamui and it even says that his Kamui is currently unknown.

It's unknown if he has a seperate Kamui or that the Surplice serves as his version of Kamui.

 

[Cropfist]

Seiya for reasons above.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I should mention that Zeus took away all of the Kamuis at the end of the "Age of Myth" some few thousand years ago. No god in Saint Seiya has one anymore besides Zeus, whose whereabouts are currently unknown.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Why are you people talking about Kamuis? Hades in true body is 2-C even without Surplice. Don't you people know anything about the Verse?

 

[ScarletFirefly]

^ Athena has her Kamui IIRC

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I should mention that Zeus took away all of the Kamuis at the end of the "Age of Myth" some few thousand years ago. No god in Saint Seiya has one anymore besides Zeus, whose whereabouts are currently unknown.

But Athena has hers. She wore it against Hades.

 

[The_Everlasting]

^ Athena has her Kamui IIRC

That's her God Cloth, not Kamui. It's this weird Cloth she has that's different from her Kamui (Like Poseidon's Marine Scale Armor and Hades' Surplice).

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Why are you people talking about Kamuis? Hades in true body is 2-C even without Surplice. Don't you people know anything about the Verse?

Why would he even bother wearing it then?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Because Saint Seiya is a series where people wear armor so that Toei / Bandai can sell hyper expensive toys.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

^ Athena has her Kamui IIRC

That's her God Cloth, not Kamui. It's this weird Cloth she has that's different from her Kamui (Like Poseidon's Marine Scale Armor and Hades' Surplice).

I'm not understanding. Kamui and cloth are same thing.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

That's her God Cloth, not Kamui.

Doesn't Kamui literally mean "God Robe/Cloth" though? It even says in the wiki only her Kamui has been shown.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Because Saint Seiya is a series where people wear armor so that Toei / Bandai can sell hyper expensive toys.

That isn't really a valid argument. It has been shown times and times again that their Cloth is essential in battle and it resonates with their constellation grating them power when their burn their Cosmos.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Scarlet

Are you referring to the English Saint Seiya wiki? Because I've heard it's very unreliable.

And yes, that is the translation of Kamui, but her God Cloth is another thing altogether. It's weird.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Seiya has resistances to:

Mind Manipulation (Complete Mind Destruction is something even basic Saints can do in the series, let alone the absolute insane Mind Hax of the likes of Shaka)

Soul Manipulation (Killing Souls is bog-standard in Saint Seiya too)

Matter Manipulation / Atomic Destruction (Goes without saying)

Illusions (Even the so-called "Real Illusions" that some characters in Saint Seiya can create, which are so convincing they literally "exist" while they are being cast)

Life & Death Manipulation (Not even Thanatos, the God of Death who wills death from universes away, can kill him)

Dream Manipulation (Hypnos can't warp his mind to put him in an eternal sleep. Also doubles as resistanc to Biological Manipulation)

Time & Causality Manipulation (via Acausality which overwrites the entire Space-Time Continuum itself)

Erasure (He is consistently enduring Hades' Curse)

Likely he has resistance to Spatial Manipulation (Considering the shit Aries Mu can do, which stronger Gold Saints can just "lolnope" it)

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Kamui = Divine Attire

Cloth = Armor, but the Kanji reads as "Sacred Armor"

God Cloth = Divine Sacred Armor

Don't ever trust the English Saint Seiya Wiki. It's complete shit.

And Cloths aren't essential to battles. The stronger and morei in-tune with Cosmos the Saint becomes the less he needs his own Cloth. Seiya fights half of his fights without his Cloth.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Well I could check out the Brazillian one, if there is one. I know the show was insanely popular there. It was basically Dragonball.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It has one, but it's also inaccurate.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

As Cal said earlier, shouldn't those resistances be on his page? @Matt

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Well that sucks

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I've actually said before that Seiya should have his resistances and ability to attack the soul added, but if I remember correctly, Matt said something along the lines of "everyone in the verse can do it, so there's no point putting it on their profile", which seems a little counter-intuitive considering this wiki's goal is to record and rate the powers of fictional characters against each other.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Exactly that, Monarch. The Royal Knights have stuff like the resistances on their pages. The characters of Dies Irae and Kajiri Kamui have them on theirs as well. So, and no disrespect to Matthew or anything of the sort, i don't see why it shouldn't be added onto their pages. This way, people will actually know what they are able to resist against and other such.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Information on the Kamuis. I will post the scans in Portuguese and translate the contents to English:

WHAT ARE THE KAMUI ​

SACRED ATTIRES WORN BY THE GODS?​

During the Era of the Gods, the Twelve Gods of Olympus donned shining attires around their bodies. Attires that only the gods could wear... They called them the Kamui.​

Usually, the Twelve Gods of Olympus in Greek Mythology are said to be Hera, Apollo, Artemis, Poseidon, Athena, Demeter, Aphrodite, Hephaestus, Hermes, Hestia, and Zeus, the All-Powerful.

All twelve wore armors called Kamui. They were divinely bright and held powers infinitely higher than the Saints' Cloths, the Marines' Scales and the Specters' Surplices. As all the gods, except for Athena and Poseidon, disappeared to the Heavens alongside Zeus during the Era of the Gods, these Kamui became talked about only as legends.

It is know that the Cloth of a Saint that is regenerated through the blood of Athena may become a presence very close to a Kamui - The so called God Cloths. To us, in present times, we can only imagine how the Kamui were through the appearance of these God Cloths.

According to Poseidon's words, the Gods of Olympus shall one day descend to Earth to lay judgement on mankind. The return of the Twelve Gods of Olympus adorned by their Kamui may very well be what starts the next battle of the Saints of Athena...

Hypnos was one of the few beings who personally saw the Kamui during the Era of the Gods. He also was present during the birth of the God Cloths. What could have been the constellation of the Cloth which transformed into a God Cloth during those times?​

Numerous events of the Era of the Gods​

According to the legends of the gods in Mythology, after the universe was born from the Big Bang, the divine will flooded the entire universe, poured itself over the Earth and created life. Life then evolved, transforming into the "Human Being", in the Gods' own image.

With the passing of the times, humans which housed the spirits of the gods began to appear, amplifying their powers far more over the Earth. Zeus dominated the Heavens and the Earth, Poseidon rules over the Oceans and Hades commanded the Underworld. Amidst the, Zeus' power was enormous, so much so that he was known as "The All-Powerful". It was his presence that acted as the reins which maintained equilibrium between the Heavens, Earth, Oceans and Underworld.

However, when God left the Earth alongside the other deities, trusting it to his daughter Athena, disputes among the gods around various parts of the planet started to arise. All the other gods now yearned for the terrestrial globe which lied under Athena's care, and the greatest obsession was Poseidon's. For numerous times did he head the Marines to challenge Athena's dominion over the Earth.

The Saints of Athena were born of these battles against Poseidon. During numerous battles, they acquired experience and systematic fighting techniques, established the Sanctuary and started to become fundamental presences in Athena's protection, becoming warriors feared by even the gods themselves.

Even after the ending of the battle against Poseidon, the dispute for the Earth's dominion continued across millennia, though it was always contained by the Saints' actions, who to this day grantee peace in the terrestrial globe.

WHERE ARE THE KAMUI OF ATHENA AND POSEIDON?​

Athena and Poseidon both possess their Cloth and their Scale respectively, but with the two of them being part of the Twelve Gods of Olympus, shouldn't they also hold their own Kamui? Why did they abandon their Kamui and started to only don their Cloth and Scale? If they still possess their Kamui, is it possible that one day they shall need to wear them again?

Will there be any relation between the brief awakening of Poseidon, now imprisoned in Athena's Amphora, and the return of the Twelve Gods of Olympus...?

The Bronze Cloth regenerated by the blood of Athena reacted to the Saints' Cosmos and transformed into a God Cloth. To fight against the gods protected by their Kamui, the God Cloth shall be Indispensable.

The appearance of the Kamui worn by the gods is unknown and what we know about them is but the product of our imagination...​

 

[Gojira1234]

Man y'all are pulling out all the stops. Team Usagi, your rebuttal?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Hades curse isn't described as existence erasure on the wiki. It's a death curse that attacks both body and soul amd stops reincarnation.

"

• Divine Curse: Through his sword his lingering hate could inflict a spiritual wound (shaped as his sword, invisible except to Gods) that blocks the lifeforce and power of his enemy, induces a coma and eventually causes death through the sword slowly moving into the body of the victim. It was used against God Saint Seiya so he would never reincarnate again and even after the death of Hades it's hard to remove by other Olympian Gods, prompting Athena to attempt to change history in order to save him.

Senshi can exist without body or soul and have survived against both soul and body destroying attacks. Their erasure works at an existence level.

Chaos was immune to existence erasure that can casually erase acasual beings from entire timelines. Sailor Moon was able to weaken him to the point that his immunity was voided and he was then erased.

If seiyas erasure resistance is for body and soul erasure, why do we assume he can stand up to existence erasure?

 

[Josif1]

I think Sailor Moon wins by arguments said above me.