• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Sailor Moon: Tier 1 Corridor of Spacetime Door

Status
Not open for further replies.
The Universes already have one direction of causality: past to future.
Sure.
The Corridor has it's own direction: past, present, future, happening simultaneously.
Where’s the new direction? You’re asserting the idea that this is a new additional temporal direction but you don’t explain why. Either you have to explain why, or find something in our standards that references such a property for Tier 1 structures and refer me to that for explanation.
That's two distinct systems of causality. The current FAQ page says:




There are infinite ways a story can handle temporal corridors, they all don't work the same. Each must be viewed upon by a case by case basis. There are corridors where from their perspective everything is frozen in time. Others where the frame of reference also seems to move from past to future in accordance to the rest of time, and ones where there isn't any decipherable information.
Makes sense.
Sailor Moon's story distinctly depicts events that occur in the future have already happened in Pluto's frame of reference, while events in the past are going to happen. That's two distinct flows of causality.
That isn’t necessarily an additional flow of time, if anything that’s more akin to atemporality (isn’t that already a thing in sailor moon, correct me if I’m wrong). You need to explain why past, present and future occurring at once (or being perceived as such by someone) indicates an additional temporal dimension? I don’t recall ever seeing a description of any number of temporal dimension that matches this and that’s precisely what I’ve been telling you. Your information, as presented, is basically not tierable by current standards (To be fair our standards suck IMHO)
I never said that R^5 spaces don't have concepts of distance and direction. But for the case of Sailor Moon, the corridor can be argued to be one dimensional layer equivalent above the R^4 spaces.
You just stated that the corridor has undefined points in space, therefore any distance between said points is undefined/infinite. That is not how a R^5 space works, forget R^5, that’s not how a R^3 space works. A 3-space (3 dimensional vector space) is already considered to be infinitely large, able to hold uncountable infinite 2D planes and every (uncountably infinite) 1D point on each of those planes. Despite that, each and every one of those points is well defined and is a finite distance away from another well defined point or the “origin”.

The property you describe could just be a property the corridor possesses for no particular reason other than to make it interesting and mysterious. Trying to speculate why it possess this property, coming to a necessarily more convoluted (and the highest possible) interpretation (it being infinite in size thus being significant 5D) is a bad way to scale, let alone writing a justification for that.
The corridor has universes embedded that are separate spacetimes. The wiki staff have already stated on occasion, that a 5th dimension is needed to keep these spacetimes parallel and separated.
Insignificant 5D yes, not unlike DBS Neutral Space.
The corridor having no concept of distance and direction, means that it can be categorized as R^?
No, it can contain 3D dimensional objects (people) and supposedly 4D universes, so it is not R^?, please do not come up with standards on the fly. Also having no concept of distance and direction could also mean it isn’t even a 4D space, but that’s clearly wrong so using that phrase again and again isn’t helping you. A 5-space necessarily contains not only the concept of distance but well defined distances as well, even “more” distances that we can think of, I’ve told you that before haven’t I? A 5-space CAN possess such a property, sure, this is fiction, but you need to prove it’s a 5-space first but you’re using a property not necessarily exclusive to fictional 5-spaces to prove that, which comes off as circular reasoning.
where ? represents an undefined number. And because we know that the corridor has spacetime embedded in it that is separated by a 5th dimensional axis, R^5 is a subset of R^?.
No, there is no such thing as R^? nor is R^5 a subset of such. There exists no such structure or vector space. Maybe you mean R^n? An N-dimensional vector space where N is the number of dimensions, which allows you to denote any point as an N-tuple (an N-dimensional vector denoted as A=[X1, X2, X3…….Xn]) consisting of however many dimensions you want. That is a fundamentally different concept to what you stated and even that doesn’t support your argument as R^5 isn’t necessarily a subset of R^n.
All points being undefined is supporting evidence to the corridor having no concept of distance and direction.
No, because I just showed you why “points being undefined” makes little sense and, even in this context, doesn’t support your argument. And I’ve also shown you why “having no concept of distance and direction” is a non-argument here.
It is essentially infinite. Pick any points in the corridor, how long will it take to travel from one point to the other? An infinite amount of time because you'll never reach the second point, regardless of fast you go or what direction you take.
That does not prove infinite distance, like I said. You‘re making up a possible explanation based off of clever manipulation of the speed formula, and a little (and incorrect) mathematical fact that 1/0 is undefined, and often written as infinity, thus undefined points = infinite distance. This is utter nonsense, mathematically and in terms of scaling. Not only is this already a big, big stretch, but I’ve already shown you why 5-spaces or even a 3-space does NOT work like that and distances between points in those spaces are both finite and well defined (there exists no vector of infinite magnitude) even though those spaces can easily be infinite if you want them to, the rule applies in an infinite 3-space or a 3D dimensional vector subspace (Aka a finite 3D space).
Another example. is take a vase. The distance between the opening of the vase and bottom of the vase is undefined. If you drop a marble inside the vase, how long will it take for that marble to reach the bottom of the base? How many marbles can you drop in the vase until it is filled? Replace marble with universe and vase with corridor.
No, the distance between the opening and bottom is perfectly defined. What are you even saying at this point…? Maybe I’m stupid and misunderstanding but this is false! Please, find a better example if you really want to use analogies to elaborate your point.

Frankly I think this is by far your worst Low 1-C Sailor Moon argument/thread so far. It contains so many fallacies both mathematical and scaling-wise it’s hard to decide where to begin questioning your logic.
 
Nah, different cause and effect isn't gonna make you have additional +1 axis. If this is the case then verse have infinite amount of timeline gonna be high 1-B because of infinite amount of cause and effect direction = infinite amount of axes
 
Nah, different cause and effect isn't gonna make you have additional +1 axis. If this is the case then verse have infinite amount of timeline gonna be high 1-B because of infinite amount of cause and effect direction = infinite amount of axes
If time flows from past to future, then its one direction. Even if there are infinite timelines, if for all of them, time flows from past to future, thats all still one direction. So it would only be 2-A.
 
Last edited:
Wrong. If time flows from past to future, then its one direction. Even if there are infinite timelines, if for all of them, time flows from past to future, thats all still one direction. So it would only be 2-A.
Not necessarily. That’s an argument PrinceofPein brought up but it is easily dismissed once yo read the standards page and realize the word “different flow of time” is used no where, instead “additional axis of time“ is used. Regardless, that argument has nothing to do with this one
 
Not necessarily. That’s an argument PrinceofPein brought up but it is easily dismissed once yo read the standards page and realize the word “different flow of time” is used no where, instead “additional axis of time“ is used. Regardless, that argument has nothing to do with this one
I believe that is for universes with different rate of time flows. One moving faster than the other. But still having a direction that goes from past to future.

also, i am responding to your first message. Please give time for me to respond to that one.
 
Where’s the new direction? You’re asserting the idea that this is a new additional temporal direction but you don’t explain why. Either you have to explain why, or find something in our standards that references such a property for Tier 1 structures and refer me to that for explanation.


That isn’t necessarily an additional flow of time, if anything that’s more akin to atemporality (isn’t that already a thing in sailor moon, correct me if I’m wrong). You need to explain why past, present and future occurring at once (or being perceived as such by someone) indicates an additional temporal dimension? I don’t recall ever seeing a description of any number of temporal dimension that matches this and that’s precisely what I’ve been telling you. Your information, as presented, is basically not tierable by current standards (To be fair our standards suck IMHO)


Let me give you three events:

Event 1. Black Lady sends the shockwaves
Event 2. Sailor Pluto sends Sailor Moon a warning
Event 3. Sailor Moon recieves Pluto’s warning of the shockwaves

Black lady is in the future when she sends the shockwaves. Sailor Moon is in the past when she receives pluto’s warning and is hit by the shockwaves.

Sailor Pluto is not inside the universe when any of these events happen, meaning she’s not in past, future, or present of the universe.

During Event 2, event 1 has to be in her past to react to it. And Event 3 has to be in her future for it to be affect of her actions

If the corridor and the Universe have the same time direction, how can Pluto’s past be the universe’s future and her future be the universe’s past?

If they share the same direction, the flow of causality will be the same. But the flow of causality is not the same. Therefore they do not share the same direction of time.

And again: snapshots of time in universe would only include 3D space. Snapshots of the corridor would include the 4D space of the universe.


No, it can contain 3D dimensional objects (people) and supposedly 4D universes, so it is not R^?, please do not come up with standards on the fly. Also having no concept of distance and direction could also mean it isn’t even a 4D space, but that’s clearly wrong so using that phrase again and again isn’t helping you. A 5-space necessarily contains not only the concept of distance but well defined distances as well, even “more” distances that we can think of, I’ve told you that before haven’t I? A 5-space CAN possess such a property, sure, this is fiction, but you need to prove it’s a 5-space first but you’re using a property not necessarily exclusive to fictional 5-spaces to prove that, which comes off as circular reasoning.
I did not come up with standards on the fly. The corridor contains entire 4D structures and has no concept of distance and direction. That is the facts of the story.

If you were to describe the corridor as R^n l, the n would be indefinite. Which is why I called R^?.


No, there is no such thing as R^? nor is R^5 a subset of such. There exists no such structure or vector space. Maybe you mean R^n? An N-dimensional vector space where N is the number of dimensions, which allows you to denote any point as an N-tuple (an N-dimensional vector denoted as A=[X1, X2, X3…….Xn]) consisting of however many dimensions you want. That is a fundamentally different concept to what you stated and even that doesn’t support your argument as R^5 isn’t necessarily a subset of R^n.
Call it R^n or R^?, it doesn’t matter. For this purpose of this thread, its whatever can accurately describe the corridor which doesn’t exist.

The corridor contains universes which by our standard already is accepted as insignificant 5D. So yes, for the corridor R^5 is a subset of it.


That does not prove infinite distance, like I said. You‘re making up a possible explanation based off of clever manipulation of the speed formula, and a little (and incorrect) mathematical fact that 1/0 is undefined, and often written as infinity, thus undefined points = infinite distance. This is utter nonsense, mathematically and in terms of scaling. Not only is this already a big, big stretch, but I’ve already shown you why 5-spaces or even a 3-space does NOT work like that and distances between points in those spaces are both finite and well defined (there exists no vector of infinite magnitude) even though those spaces can easily be infinite if you want them to, the rule applies in an infinite 3-space or a 3D dimensional vector subspace (Aka a finite 3D space).
Fine. Then the I’ll use the wiki standards and say because there is no concept of distance in the corridor, it has immeasurable distance.


No, the distance between the opening and bottom is perfectly defined. What are you even saying at this point…? Maybe I’m stupid and misunderstanding but this is false! Please, find a better example if you really want to use analogies to elaborate your point.
I am talking about the space inside the jar. But it doesn’t matter. Like above, using our wiki standards, the corridor has immeasurable size.

Frankly I think this is by far your worst Low 1-C Sailor Moon argument/thread so far. It contains so many fallacies both mathematical and scaling-wise it’s hard to decide where to begin questioning your logic.

I am trying to index a magical girl series based on arbitrary guidelines that are loosely based in math. Forgive me if it doesn’t align with the axioms of math neatly enough.
 
Last edited:
Let me give you three events:

Event 1. Black Lady sends the shockwaves
Event 2. Sailor Pluto sends Sailor Moon a warning
Event 3. Sailor Moon recieves Pluto’s warning of the shockwaves

Black lady is in the future when she sends the shockwaves. Sailor Moon is in the past when she receives pluto’s warning and is hit by the shockwaves.

Sailor Pluto is not inside the universe when any of these events happen, meaning she’s not in past, future, or present of the universe.

During Event 2, event 1 has to be in her past to react to it. And Event 3 has to be in her future for it to be affect of her actions

If the corridor and the Universe have the same time direction, how can Pluto’s past be the universe’s future and her future be the universe’s past?

If they share the same direction, the flow of causality will be the same. But the flow of causality is not the same. Therefore they do not share the same direction of time.

And again: snapshots of time in universe would only include 3D space. Snapshots of the corridor would include the 4D space of the universe.

You have given what is essentially a textbook definition of atemporality/acausality, which I believe Sailor moon already has and has more substantial evidence for than her existing in a “different” temporal axis altogether. Whatever makes you think it is anything other than acausality? The wiki will never go with the highest possible interpretation of something like this especially when it lacks substantial evidence.
I did not come up with standards on the fly. The corridor contains entire 4D structures and
You did.
has no concept of distance and direction. That is the facts of the story.
Which, as I just showed for the 1000th time, means absolutely nothing in terms of tiering a structure and if anything runs contrary to what a “baseline” 5D structure should be like. I did state that yes a 5D fictional structure can possess this property (which is why I don’t use it to discredit your argument), but for that to work, you must prove it’s a significant 5D space first and you can’t do that repeating this stuff.
If you were to describe the corridor as R^n l, the n would be indefinite. Which is why I called R^?.
No? Why would it be indefinite? R^n just means a vector space of any N dimensions. That N could be 3, or a million. R^? however means absolutely nothing. Please don’t use that notation again.
Call it R^n or R^?, it doesn’t matter.
Not what you said above.
For this purpose of this thread, its whatever can accurately describe the corridor which doesn’t exist.
Sure it does. It’s an insignificant 5D space if, so far, your descriptions about it have been correct and that it physically holds universes inside. That’s a perfectly valid way to describe such a structure.
The corridor contains universes which by our standard already is accepted as insignificant 5D. So yes, for the corridor R^5 is a subset of it.
Why‘s it a subset? Have you proven that its an infinite 5D space instead of a subspace? Aka, that it is significant 5D not insignificant 5D? That’s like saying your room is a universe because both it and the living universe contain at least 3-Dimensions. What you don’t understand is that size of the structure makes all the difference here.
Fine. Then the I’ll use the wiki standards and say because there is no concept of distance in the corridor, it has immeasurable distance.
Good luck proving that. I don’t know where that standard came from but if it exists, good luck proving that.
I am talking about the space inside the jar.
Yes, and you were disastrously wrong.
But it doesn’t matter. Like above, using our wiki standards, the corridor has immeasurable size.
Good luck proving that. You need to get this accepted in another CRT as far as I know, or add this argument to the OP, ask it to be evaluated as well and hope they both get accepted, which isn’t happening.
I am trying to index a magical girl series based on arbitrary guidelines that are loosely based in math. Forgive me if it doesn’t align with the axioms of math neatly enough.
I get that a lot, I am known to be the annoying kid in engineering classes who’s really pedantic about math. That being said, I think it’s your evidence that’s lacking here, either that or you aren’t doing a good job at arguing it. That absolute train-wreck of an analogy makes me believe so.
 
You have given what is essentially a textbook definition of atemporality/acausality, which I believe Sailor moon already has and has more substantial evidence for than her existing in a “different” temporal axis altogether. Whatever makes you think it is anything other than acausality? The wiki will never go with the highest possible interpretation of something like this especially when it lacks substantial evidence.
If the corridor is acausal then it has a different flow of causality from the universe. Yes or no?
 
If the corridor is acausal then it has a different flow of causality from the universe. Yes or no?
Does this flow absolutely, undeniably, and conclusively require a higher time axis? Can it be nitpicked away as being attributed to something else like the timeless properties of a corridor? Yes or no?

You keep dodging my main argument. From the perspective of a typical 5th dimensional plane (if I were to concede that this corridor were insignificant 5-D), 4-dimensional space-time and its infinite snapshots appear as a single finite entity: a bubble stuck to a 5-D multiversal position. All timeless voids would theoretically view past/present/future at once, doesn’t mean they have time. And don’t say “well that’s just a theoretical model and we can’t actually conceptualize what time would be like in such a state.” Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Your interpretation is no more valid than mine. We can’t just give absolutely everything in fiction its highest end interpretations.
 
If the corridor is acausal then it has a different flow of causality from the universe. Yes or no?
That’s not what I said. I stated that characters possessing this ability indicates acausality. Now whether the realm is acausal or not, I don’t know. Another thing I don’t know is if a realm beinf acausal gives it an additional time axis, you’ll need to ask someone more knowledgeable here
 
That’s not what I said. I stated that characters possessing this ability indicates acausality. Now whether the realm is acausal or not, I don’t know. Another thing I don’t know is if a realm beinf acausal gives it an additional time axis, you’ll need to ask someone more knowledgeable here
This entire thread is about the realm. All my examples is about the realm.

The realm being accasual doesn’t give its own additional axis. It is because the universe is embedded within it and contains 4D and the corridor has its own flow of causality, meaning the entire structure contains two different flows of cauality.
 
Does this flow absolutely, undeniably, and conclusively require a higher time axis? Can it be nitpicked away as being attributed to something else like the timeless properties of a corridor? Yes or no?

You keep dodging my main argument. From the perspective of a typical 5th dimensional plane (if I were to concede that this corridor were insignificant 5-D), 4-dimensional space-time and its infinite snapshots appear as a single finite entity: a bubble stuck to a 5-D multiversal position. All timeless voids would theoretically view past/present/future at once, doesn’t mean they have time. And don’t say “well that’s just a theoretical model and we can’t actually conceptualize what time would be like in such a state.” Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Your interpretation is no more valid than mine. We can’t just give absolutely everything in fiction its highest end interpretations.
All timeless voids have their own their own flow of causality.

Both I and Deagonx said this and you agreed with Deagonx here:


So here we have you agreeing that the timeless voids and atemporal spaces have their own flow of causality.

Destroying these type of structures are still 4D feats. However this is not the case of the corridor because the universes are embedded in side the corridor. The universes have their own distinct flow of causality than the corridor. Destroying the corridor means destroying two distinct flows of causality.
 
This entire thread is about the realm. All my examples is about the realm.

The realm being accasual doesn’t give its own additional axis.
Then why’re you claiming that it does? Also why does an ”acausal realm” have its own temporal axis, if it even is acausal in the first place instead of the character(s).
It is because the universe is embedded within it and contains 4D and the corridor has its own flow of causality, meaning the entire structure contains two different flows of cauality.
Read above. I don’t understand why this implies another temporal axis.
 
Then why’re you claiming that it does? Also why does an ”acausal realm” have its own temporal axis, if it even is acausal in the first place instead of the character(s).

Read above. I don’t understand why this implies another temporal axis.
On its own, it would be just 4D.

But because the corridor itself, contains 4D structures and has a flow of causality different from the flow of the universes it embeds, it contains 2 different flows of time.
 
I showed Ultima the scans and your explanations, and explained the overall situation, and he said:

ngl this sounds like it's just talking about the timeline itself, rather than any special extra-multiversal one.
Like, for analogy's sake:
If particular points in time, where people operate, are 2-D cross-sections of a cube, this corridor would be the volume of the cube.
That's the impression I get.
It's even called "the edges of spacetime."
 
On its own, it would be just 4D.
For holding Universes? No. Otherwise? Still no. A structure can’t be given Low 2-C just because it’s acausal AFAIK.
But because the corridor itself, contains 4D structures and has a flow of causality different from the flow of the universes it embeds
How can it have a “flow of causality” when it is acausal? You’re being contradictory here.
it contains 2 different flows of time.
Then how’s it acausal? Not that you have proven where this second flow of time even is.
 
I showed Ultima the scans and your explanations, and explained the overall situation, and he said:
Is there a way to have a conversation with him? Because based on this alone, it's in my favor.

If he likened the universe to a 2D plane of a cube, and the corridor to the cube itself, then the corridor would be nd+1 to the universe.
 
Is there a way to have a conversation with him? Because based on this alone, it's in my favor.
it isn’t. You have officially lost track of your own argument. We are already starting with the assumption that the corridor is insignificant 5D
If he likened the universe to a 2D plane of a cube, and the corridor to the cube itself, then the corridor would be nd+1 to the universe.
Yeah, no. For that, you’ll need to prove that an infinite number of universes can fit inside that corridor or that it is infinite in size, either making it significant 5D yielding the desired Low 1-C tier. You haven’t done that yet.
 
If he likened the universe to a 2D plane of a cube, and the corridor to the cube itself, then the corridor would be nd+1 to the universe.
To be specific here: The comparison was with regards to the 3-D universe, specifically. Singular points in time, where characters operate, are 2-D cross-sections of the cube, and then the cube's volume is the timeline itself, thus making this 4-D per analogy. This seems to be very much what the "Corridor" here is, from what I've been shown. It's described as existing "between times," and overall the scans seem to characterize it as a feature of one spacetime (Calling it "the space-time void," "the depths of space-time," "the edge of space-time," and etc), so, my reading is that it just is the bulk of the timeline.
 
To be specific here: The comparison was with regards to the 3-D universe, specifically. Singular points in time, where characters operate, are 2-D cross-sections of the cube, and then the cube's volume is the timeline itself, thus 4-D per analogy. This seems to be very much what the "Corridor" here is, from what I've been shown. It's described as existing "between times," and overall the scans seem to characterize it as a feature of one spacetime (Calling it "the space-time void," "the depths of space-time," "the edge of space-time," and etc), so, my reading is that it just is the bulk of the timeline.
That would make sense, but the corridor has entire 4D universes embedded in its fabric. As posted here:

The corridor also has universes embedded with in it. Sailor Pluto confirms that the Tau Star System is distant region in spacetime. The Tau Star System is referred to as a cosmos, other world, and alternate dimension.

Luna and Sailor Pluto also confirm the existence of a multitude of other alternate dimensions, so much that Luna's computer cannot check them all.
 
She uses the computer to check the routes. What are you missing?
Nothing. You just misunderstood the scan. She said she can't possibly check all of the interdimensional routes. I'm not saying she can't check any of them. I also already pointed this out earlier so I don't know why you're still saying it.

goitVvW.jpeg
 
Nothing. You just misunderstood the scan. She said she can't possibly check all of the interdimensional routes. I'm not saying she can't check any of them. I also already pointed this out earlier so I don't know why you're still saying it.

goitVvW.jpeg
I did not misunderstood anything. What are you even talking about?
 
I did. Please stop stonewalling this issue, the scan very clearly states:

"The only other possible routes are interdimensional ones, and we can't possibly check all of them."

It is saying they cannot possibly check all of the interdimensional routes. There's nothing in the scan that indicates that "there are so many other dimensions that they can't check them all" or something. The sentence above refers to routes. "Them" cannot grammatically refer to dimensions.
 
I did. Please stop stonewalling this issue, the scan very clearly states:

"The only other possible routes are interdimensional ones, and we can't possibly check all of them."

It is saying they cannot possibly check all of the interdimensional routes. There's nothing in the scan that indicates that "there are so many other dimensions that they can't check them all" or something. The sentence above refers to routes. "Them" cannot grammatically refer to dimensions.
I'm not stonewalling anything. I can't read your thoughts from what you type.

Them refers to the interdimensional routes that enemies can use to travel to their universe from other dimensions. Number of routes correlates to the number of dimensions. There is nothing wrong with what I said.

Drop this pedantic argument. It's silly.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top