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Ultima memtioned it and and a few others in the DBS thread tooIf possible, could you link that or tell me who said it so I can find it?
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Ultima memtioned it and and a few others in the DBS thread tooIf possible, could you link that or tell me who said it so I can find it?
If possible, could you link that or tell me who said it so I can find it?
So, glancing over this: It doesn't really seem to be anything particularly notable, in the sense that we already assume 4-D spacetimes that exist in parallel are spaced apart across 5-dimensional space. The issue, largely, is whether this 5-dimensional space has anything noteworthy about it to be tiered; it could be a complete void, for instance, and as such have really nothing in it to blow up in the first place.
More than that, it could just not meet our criteria of what a "significantly large" dimensional structure is, and as such be left untiered. Just like we don't instantly grant characters Low 2-C ratings for destroying small spacetimes (Or sections of spacetime). If the space was infinitely large, there'd be something to work with, but if we don't know its size, then, yeah.
And, to my knowledge, I believe we already use the 5-D space reasoning as part of the regular justification for tiers like 2-C and 2-A. It's why the gap between them is treated as "unquantifiable," because, ideally, feats that warrant them involve affecting both the universes and the space between them.
No. As shown above, individual universes are embedded within it as well as the time periods are also embedded into as physical locations.Iirc, isn't Space-Time Corridor is just, a corridor that lead to different point in time??, it is used for time travel
But you’ll have to justify why the 5D space is “significant”. Is it infinite in size? Holding infinite 4D universes doesn’t make a 5D space infinite AFAIK. One way to justify a significant 5D rating (aka Low 1-C) is to somehow prove that it also has a temporal dimension, or an additional (not necessarily different) time axis.No. As shown above, individual universes are embedded within it as well as the time periods are also embedded into as physical locations.
How is it a good argument when it got rejected?But you’ll have to justify why the 5D space is “significant”. Is it infinite in size? Holding infinite 4D universes doesn’t make a 5D space infinite AFAIK. One way to justify a significant 5D rating (aka Low 1-C) is to somehow prove that it also has a temporal dimension, or an additional (not necessarily different) time axis.
In DBS case, the 5D neutral space, the macrocosms, and every other realm is embedded within a higher flow of time (hypertimeline) which are the timelines themselves, which possesses both a temporal dimension AND (almost by definition for holding all of this inside) is large enough to be given a significant tier rating, at least that’s the argument for DBS (read the staff thread and the post by Profectus Infinity for better idea, in fact I recommended to TheUnshakableOne to also read those arguments if he still wants to propose Low 1-C Saint Seiya). So if you can prove something like this, then there’s a good argument to be had for Low 1-C SM
Because the argument was never addressed. Read the staff thread, once Profectus presented the complete argument, Pein didn’t even bother responding to it (he verbatim said he isn’t reading all that), and had the thread closed because staff had disagreed BEFORE the complete argument was presented.How is it a good argument when it got rejected?
The Corridor has no concept of distance and direction. All point in space are undefined unless you have a time key.But you’ll have to justify why the 5D space is “significant”. Is it infinite in size? Holding infinite 4D universes doesn’t make a 5D space infinite AFAIK.
The corridor has its own unique axis. All of time happens at once from its perspective, as shown above in my diagrams.or an additional (not necessarily different) time axis.
That just sounds like atemporality rather than it's own time axis.The corridor has its own unique axis. All of time happens at once from its perspective, as shown above in my diagrams.
The two aren’t mutually exclusive.That just sounds like atemporality rather than it's own time axis.
How does that work towards making it significant. If it is a 5D space, it is SUPPOSED to have 3 dimensions of usual directions and then some, even ignoring that nitpick, how does that make it significant?The Corridor has no concept of distance and direction. All point in space are undefined unless you have a time key.
Why does that grant it a “new axis” of time? Did you not just say that time itself doesn’t exist there? The corridor, being the culmination of all past, present and future doesn’t prove anything here, unless you can show how it does while lining up with our standards (I don’t see anything in our standards that can possibly match this description).The corridor has its own unique axis. All of time happens at once from its perspective, as shown above in my diagrams.
I’m pretty sure affecting past, present and future at once is a Low 2-C featThe two aren’t mutually exclusive.
If in the universes, the direction of time is past > present > future
thats a different axis and frame of reference where the past, present, and future are all happening concurrently.
And it is different from other atemporal realms where within them, nothing is happening.
That’s not the argument. Take a look at the graph I posted above. The past, present, and future happen concurrently in the same frame of reference in the corridor.I’m pretty sure affecting past, present and future at once is a Low 2-C feat
See above. There is no flow of time. Time doesn’t flow from past to future. It occurs all at once. That’s a new direction different from the universe.Why does that grant it a “new axis” of time? Did you not just say that time itself doesn’t exist there?
How does that work towards making it significant. If it is a 5D space, it is SUPPOSED to have 3 dimensions of usual directions and then some, even ignoring that nitpick, how does that make it significant?
Which reasons? He’s been asking questions for clarification.I disagree based off @MeiouHades reasons
I did. What you haven’t told me is why you think it warrants a Low 1-C rating for possessing that property.That’s not the argument. Take a look at the graph I posted above. The past, present, and future happen concurrently in the same frame of reference in the corridor.
By direction I assume you mean another time axis? In that case, why is that a “new direction”? How is past, present and future existing simultaneously warrant that rating? Isn’t that what most temporal corridors in fiction do?See above. There is no flow of time. Time doesn’t flow from past to future. It occurs all at once. That’s a new direction different from the universe.
My friend, what you said makes 0 sense mathematically, and I‘m a mathematics major. In a R^5 space, not only is there absolutely a concept or distance and direction, but there are much “more” distances and directions than in normal R^3 space.No concept of distance or direction. And all points of space are undefined. That is essentially and mathematically infinite.
I didn’t agree or disagree with anything. I’m asking him why he’s proposing what he isI disagree based off @MeiouHades reasons
The Universes already have one direction of causality: past to future.I did. What you haven’t told me is why you think it warrants a Low 1-C rating for possessing that property.
This structure can then be generalized to any amounts of dimensions, and is also the reason destroying a spacetime continuum is a greater feat than destroying only the contents of the physical universe (Low 2-C, rather than 3-A or High 3-A). So, for example, a spacetime continuum comprising two temporal dimensions (Instead of just one) would have an additional time direction whose "snapshots" correspond to the whole of a 4-dimensional spacetime, and so on and so forth.
There are infinite ways a story can handle temporal corridors, they all don't work the same. Each must be viewed upon by a case by case basis. There are corridors where from their perspective everything is frozen in time. Others where the frame of reference also seems to move from past to future in accordance to the rest of time, and ones where there isn't any decipherable information.By direction I assume you mean another time axis? In that case, why is that a “new direction”? How is past, present and future existing simultaneously warrant that rating? Isn’t that what most temporal corridors in fiction do?
I never said that R^5 spaces don't have concepts of distance and direction. But for the case of Sailor Moon, the corridor can be argued to be one dimensional layer equivalent above the R^4 spaces.My friend, what you said makes 0 sense mathematically, and I‘m a mathematics major. In a R^5 space, not only is there absolutely a concept or distance and direction, but there are much “more” distances and directions than in normal R^3 space.
All points being undefined is supporting evidence to the corridor having no concept of distance and direction.Even ignoring that, what does “all points of space are undefined” even mean here? In what sense are they undefined, and why does it warrant the rating you propose?
It is essentially infinite. Pick any points in the corridor, how long will it take to travel from one point to the other? An infinite amount of time because you'll never reach the second point, regardless of fast you go or what direction you take.No, it’s not “essentially and mathematically“ infinite. Being undefined is not the same as infinity in mathematics, please don’t say that again it hurts my soul.
Can you please expand.Disagree
Which ones?I disagree FRA
DeagonxWhich ones?
Which ones? A lot of his messages were about the size of universes which have nothing to do with my arguments?Deagonx
The Corridor is stated to have no concept of distance and direction. Sailor Pluto states that specific points in space are undefined within the corridor without her key. Sailor Mercury also makes the comment that walking through the corridor feels like they're moving in circles despite moving in a straight line. Dark pits and Black holes also open up throughout the corridor.
The corridor also has universes embedded with in it. Sailor Pluto confirms that the Tau Star System is distant region in spacetime. The Tau Star System is referred to as a cosmos, other world, and alternate dimension.
Literally all these statements could apply under a mapping model of hyperspace where certain points in a pocket dimension correspond to other locations in space-time. @Deagonx has explained it in his own way too, but there is no evidence of low 1-C here, or even insignificant 5-D.It is confirmed that the past exists as physical location within Spacetime as Chibi-usa states that it exists on the "other side of spacetime". Couple that with the fact that, those who wander the corridor can end up getting lost in time.
This is the basis of an additional time direction. I don’t know why you’re bringing this up when it doesn’t prove your point. I will explain more below.In a timeless void, events wouldn't unfold in a chronological sequence,
Yes, I already have. I will show again below.So how is this relevant? The basis for your upgrade is that there is an insignificant 5-D space, which is made significant by a time axis that results in a construction with 4 dimensions of space, 3 of which are significant, and 2 dimensions of time, both of which are significant. However, you have not proven this insignificant 5-D space has its own time axis.
Did you even read the links you posted? Let me help you:In the Kingdom Hearts thread that used this same reasoning, they had actual evidence for the presence of a time axis.
Between has its own time axis, especially considering that they also went back into the Ocean Between to seemingly go back into the future.
As further proof, there's also how the Realm of Darkness is stated to parallel the Realm of Light (with the Realm of Light being the main portion of the Ocean Between given the same overall definition), yet the Realm of Darkness is stated to specifically lack time, implying that this is different from the Realm of Light (and thus the Ocean Between by definition), with the Realm of Light being the main area for most main characters, including Aqua (the one stating it).
The Dragonball thread is being rejected as we speak because proponents could not prove that there was an additional direction of time. Why even using it as an example?The Dragon Ball thread also had explicit evidence for the presence of a time axis. Your only evidence for the presence of a time axis is that past/present/future are simultaneous from the perspective of this corridor. That's not how any of this works.
All spaces that hold universes in them are considered insignificantly 5-D by the wiki. I have already posted staff comments saying this. I have already shown the corridor holds universes within its structure.There's also something I don't think anyone else has questioned yet. What is your evidence for the corridor being insignificant 5-D in the first place?
This is all an unrelated tangent. hyperspace is a science fiction concept and at best a scientific hypothesis. It has no backing in any scientific theories or observations. You cannot just randomly bring it up and say the Sailor Moon cosmology uses it when, the cosmology doesn’t and has its own unique fictional cosmology.The fact that it physically holds space-times in parallel? You know, there are two models of hyperspace (higher dimensional space used for easy spatial travel). The folding model of hyperspace depicts a genuine higher dimensional space. The idea is that a flat paper is 2-dimensional, but crumpled ball of paper is 3-dimensional. The crumpled ball folds the distant points of 2-dimensional paper to converge in a higher dimension, much like hyperspace would be a higher dimensional space from which distant points in space converge into 4-dimensional space, or separate space-times converge in 5-dimensional space.
However, this is not the only model of hyperspace. There is also the mapping model. Under this model, a hyperspace is a parallel universe which can be entered at a point corresponding to one location in ordinary space and exited at a different point corresponding to another location after travelling a much shorter distance than would be necessary in ordinary space. This model does not depict a higher dimensional space, and I believe that's the model that the Sailor Moon corridor uses. I see no evidence that it physically contains space-times, and therefore qualifies for insignificant 5-D.
Literally all these statements could apply under a mapping model of hyperspace where certain points in a pocket dimension correspond to other locations in space-time. @Deagonx has explained it in his own way too, but there is no evidence of low 1-C here, or even insignificant 5-D.
How? Time being experienced differently isn’t automatically proof of a higher time direction. Any basic atemporal space would experience time differently. You have failed to address most of my explanation as to why this is.This is the basis of an additional time direction.
I never said that can’t be evidence, it just can’t be the only evidence. All 5-D spaces would theoretically experience time the way I described, you need more evidence for an entirely new axis of time.Here is the thread using the fact the realm of darkness lacks time as evidence, something you were just claiming isn’t evidence.
You know what’s funny? That exact thread and its arguments for why there’s an additional time axis were rejected hard by Ultima_Reality. They were just lucky it was one of those instances where a tiering thread receives enough approval to pass in spite of disapproval from Ultima or DDT. However, I can’t say this this revision of yours will receive the same fate.How is this different from characters in Sailor Moon using the corridor to travel to different times? It’s essentially the same.
We have many supporters lurking, and the thread was forcibly reopened just so we’d have more time to prove ourselves. You’ve gotten virtually zero support on this revision, and offered nothing but the same drivel that’s been peddled as low 1-C for months. I’m gonna see if I can advocate for a discussion rule myself after this thread is rejected or in the future if more failed attempts are made.The Dragonball thread is being rejected as we speak because proponents could not prove that there was an additional direction of time. Why even using it as an example?
This is all an unrelated tangent. hyperspace is a science fiction concept and at best a scientific hypothesis. It has no backing in any scientific theories or observations. You cannot just randomly bring it up and say the Sailor Moon cosmology uses it when, the cosmology doesn’t and has its own unique fictional cosmology.
It’s hilarious to see you fail to fulfill your basic burden of rebuttal. I asked for proof of insignificant 5-D, and I explained why your so-called evidence of insignificant 5-D could apply to a non 5-D construct. If you can’t refute the counterpoints, then give up this charade.All spaces that hold universes in them are considered insignificantly 5-D by the wiki. I have already posted staff comments saying this. I have already shown the corridor holds universes within its structure.
Sorry to bother you, but may I ask what your current thoughts are on the thread? Are you convinced by her response to my concerns? Do you think you could tag any of your knowledgeable friends like TheGlassMan to evaluate here?That just sounds like atemporality rather than it's own time axis.
Axes are directions. Two different directions of time would be two different axes. It’s that simple.How? Time being experienced differently isn’t automatically proof of a higher time direction. Any basic atemporal space would experience time differently. You have failed to address most of my explanation as to why this is.
5D spaces have never been observed. They don’t theoretically experience time in anyway. This is ficitonal and should all be reviewed as a case by case basis.I never said that can’t be evidence, it just can’t be the only evidence. All 5-D spaces would theoretically experience time the way I described, you need more evidence for an entirely new axis of time.
Okay, so you agree that the KH realm which received a 6D is similar to the Corridor?You know what’s funny? That exact thread and its arguments for why there’s an additional time axis were rejected hard by Ultima_Reality. They were just lucky it was one of those instances where a tiering thread receives enough approval to pass in spite of disapproval from Ultima or DDT. However, I can’t say this this revision of yours will receive the same fate.
This isn’t an argument. Discussion rules prohibit threads being made with no new arguments. All my threads use new arguments, so no discussion rule would stop this thread or any other thread I would make in the future. Please stay on topic.We have many supporters lurking, and the thread was forcibly reopened just so we’d have more time to prove ourselves. You’ve gotten virtually zero support on this revision, and offered nothing but the same drivel that’s been peddled as low 1-C for months. I’m gonna see if I can advocate for a discussion rule myself after this thread is rejected or in the future if more failed attempts are made.
??? I literally said that I posted the comments of staff saying that all universes are separated by insignificant 5D space by default. That rebuttals your statement.It’s hilarious to see you fail to fulfill your basic burden of rebuttal. I asked for proof of insignificant 5-D, and I explained why your so-called evidence of insignificant 5-D could apply to a non 5-D construct. If you can’t refute the counterpoints, then give up this charade.
The scans seem to suggest that this realm is just outside time, not that there's an additional axis. "The rift in between times."Axes are directions. Two different directions of time would be two different axes. It’s that simple.
That’s not mutually exclusive. I have shown that the events in the corridor follow a different direction of causality then they do from the regular universes.The scans seem to suggest that this realm is just outside time, not that there's an additional axis. "The rift in between times."
This is true, mostly because fiction rarely treats atemporality in a way that is actually logical, but events occurring in a realm does not prove it has its own independent time axis.Regardless of whether a space is atemporal, or outside of time, actions and causality still occur.
Have to agree with you strongly.This is true, mostly because fiction rarely treats atemporality in a way that is actually logical, but events occurring in a realm does not prove it has its own independent time axis.
True. But that’s not the case here especially considered Pluto confirms universes are embedded in it. In the universes events flow with causality, from past to future. This is not the case for the Corridor. Using Sailor Pluto as the frame of reference, events in the future can occur in the past of the corridor while events in the past can occur in the future of the corridor. Take a look at these two timelines I created of events.This is true, mostly because fiction rarely treats atemporality in a way that is actually logical, but events occurring in a realm does not prove it has its own independent time axis.
You keep repeating this but it's not true. It's very explicit and in the OP.The fact that there's no explicit evidence for this realm physically containing parallel space-times that can't be nitpicked by alternatives means there is no insignificant 5-D to be seen here.
Yes. Because that's how things are done. You don't bring up random science fiction concepts and then try to claim it applies to another fiction that doesn't mention it or use it.I still haven't seen a rebuttal towards this, just "you're going off-topic by trying to apply random theories to Sailor Moon." The point is, evidence is only reliably conclusive when it eliminates alternative interpretations to a reasonable degree
First you claim that my evidence for corridor is lacking and then you use the Kingdom Hearts as example of a proper argument.For one thing, the arguments for this corridor having its own time axis amount to special pleading and reading too deep into things. Events occuring and things progressing is necessary in any space for plot convenience, including spaces outside time or dimensionality.
Place your bids in the race to low 1-C everyone. Which verse will win the tier first: Dragon Ball, Seiya, Game Sonic, or Sailor Moon?what's up with these low 1-Cdragon balland sailor moon upgrades recently