RWBY Vol 9 General Discussion Thread: Multiverse Of Therapy

[Cire]

Quick question: what were the arguments against scaling to Vine’s bomb feat?

 

[Spinoirr]

 

[Alavaster]

Would that make neo like twice from MHA?

 

[Jinx666]

Hello again~

Can anyone give me a simple bullet pointed list here of all the main AP scaling points past the High 8-C window.

From what I know so far

Cinder broke Ozpins forcefield that protected them from Monstro's explosion, thus scaling AP
RWBY downscale to Maiden Cinder who performed above feat
Centinels are treated as Town level via the calc

Apparently there are more feats that help justify this? All i can recall is maybe Vine Zeki's feat of his arms being able to contain an explosion

 

[WeeklyBattles]

That is one of them yeah, his Aura contained an explosion that was calced at 7-B

Theres also a few 8-B and 8-A feats and the Low 7-C feat for the Colossus

 

[Cire]

Hello again~

Can anyone give me a simple bullet pointed list here of all the main AP scaling points past the High 8-C window.

From what I know so far


Apparently there are more feats that help justify this? All i can recall is maybe Vine Zeki's feat of his arms being able to contain an explosion

TBH, there is another good megaton feat that one can use.

https://www.deviantart.com/kirito352/art/Grimm-attack-to-Atlas-RWBY-951069252

This feat here of the grimm goo surviving the impact from the grimm explosion Salem caused. It's around 1 megaton. Would have to get the math checked out here though.

 

[Cire]

Basically, since the centinels are made out the grimm goo that survived the impact, they would scale in terms of durability.

 

[Jinx666]

That is one of them yeah, his Aura contained an explosion that was calced at 7-B

Theres also a few 8-B and 8-A feats and the Low 7-C feat for the Colossus

Link?

Is there a reason they would scale to the Colossus though? From what we saw in the show, the Colossus was the only thing that could have killed that godzilla grimm outside of Silver Eyes Hax, and it took the combined efforts of the main cast basically.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Basically, since the centinels are made out the grimm goo that survived the impact, they would scale in terms of durability.

They didnt survive the goo is the thing, they spawned from it after it landed on the island

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Link?

To the calc or the feat?

Is there a reason they would scale to the Colossus though? From what we saw in the show, the Colossus was the only thing that could have killed that godzilla grimm outside of Silver Eyes Hax, and it took the combined efforts of the main cast basically.

Because they were able to visibly damage it, and Ruby even knocked it over with a flying tackle, plus the Low 7-C feat is from it literally just running around

 

[Cire]

They didnt survive the goo is the thing, they spawned from it after it landed on the island

Yeah. The goo survived and the centineals are formed out of the goo. If the goo were like dying on impact, then it would have gone up in smoke. The goo also doesn't disperese from the impact like water does. It just keeps adding onto the pile.

 

[Jinx666]

Basically, since the centinels are made out the grimm goo that survived the impact, they would scale in terms of durability.

Ill add it to the list, but i dont think the Grimm goo as a liquid can exactly be scaled for its ability to survive smthn as if it was a solid tbh

 

[Jinx666]

To the calc or the feat?

Calc

Because they were able to visibly damage it, and Ruby even knocked it over with a flying tackle, plus the Low 7-C feat is from it literally just running around

Link to the calc for that too plz

 

[Cire]

Why do you want all of these links btw?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Calc

Link to the calc for that too plz

RWBY: The Colossus Charges

vsbattles.fandom.com

RWBY: Ozpin's Long Memory explosion and Ironwood's bomb

vsbattles.fandom.com

RWBY

For detailed information about the series, visit the RWBY Wiki. RWBY (pronounced "Ruby") is an anime-styled American CG-animated web-series created by the Rooster Teeth Productions' animation studio (known for their show Red vs Blue). The series is created and directed by animator Monty Oum...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Theres the current list of calcs btw, like i said though its not a complete list and theres still a lot more that is in the process of being calced

 

[Cire]

Ill add it to the list, but i dont think the Grimm goo as a liquid can exactly be scaled for its ability to survive smthn as if it was a solid tbh

It's like a fleshy liquid mass made of organic beings. It's like if a river of chunky meat survived the impact and some monsters formed out of that. The monsters are made out of the chunky meat so they would scale.

 

[Jinx666]

It's like a fleshy liquid mass made of organic beings. It's like if a river of chunky meat survived the impact and some monsters formed out of that. The monsters are made out of the chunky meat so they would scale.

Its definitely still a liquid though, that forms the Grimm, but its fine im just trying to look into it here

 

[Jinx666]

Fairs ty for the list

And what was the current stance of the Maidens actual 'storm-creation power' translating to their physical AP? I remember that being discussed and put as Environmental Destruction a while ago

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Fairs ty for the list

And what was the current stance of the Maidens actual 'storm-creation power' translating to their physical AP? I remember that being discussed and put as Environmental Destruction a while ago

Its fair game now, only reason it wasnt before was because they didnt have feats on that level physically when Raven did that feat, now they have a bunch of feats on that level

 

[Jinx666]

Its fair game now, only reason it wasnt before was because they didnt have feats on that level physically when Raven did that feat, now they have a bunch of feats on that level

Ight so it would be reliant on the validity of the other feats on its level then i see.

So to sum it up

Cinder destroying Oz' forcefield
Centinels and that Town level calc
Atlas Bomb Detonation and Vine being able to contain it
Colossus just being able to move making it small town
Grimm meat-goo?
Im assuming this calc of Penny busting through a door? (I don't see Penny actually breaking it though? It looks more like the ship went through it)
This calc of Cinder melting through Amity Arena (The melting from her Maiden powers or her Semblance? Or does the Maiden powers amp the semblance?)

Any others? And just to ask but how is Ice Queendom feats WITHIN Weiss dream treated?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ight so it would be reliant on the validity of the other feats on its level then i see.

That tends to be how Storm feats are treated unless there is a universal power system, which there also is for RWBY now so it wouldnt even need that anymore

So to sum it up Any others?

And Raven's storm, as well as a few others that still need calcs lie Raven and Cinder shaking Haven from the force of their clashes and some other calcs. though now im curious as to why youre asking this as well

And just to ask but how is Ice Queendom feats WITHIN Weiss dream treated?

Thats going to be its own key

 

[Jinx666]

That tends to be how Storm feats are treated unless there is a universal power system, which there also is for RWBY now so it wouldnt even need that anymore

Well i mean these storm feats are based on Magic, which is (somehow) an established difference to the Aura/Semblances (the universal power system). The only characters with magic are Salem, Oz and the Maidens on Remnant. So despite this it does seem like it would be reliant on how well RWBY 'scales' to Maiden Cinder/Penny.

And Raven's storm, as well as a few others that still need calcs lie Raven and Cinder shaking Haven from the force of their clashes and some other calcs. though now im curious as to why youre asking this as well

Ngl with the two feats of the Centinels (They clearly just weakened the foundation of the rock underneath, which in turn triggered the avalanche from underneath. Just being able to dig through the rock and letting gravity do the rest doesnt seem legit, esp for such a low fodder Grimm) and Ozpins shield (Cinder had never showed on-screen that she broke it. The last thing we saw of their fight was the clash, but that doesnt mean it was the end of the fight. All we know is Cinder managed to 'kill Ozpin', but that doenst mean she broke the forcefield definitely), it looked pretty skeptical

But seeing as there are more actual feats, just the RWBY profiles arent updated, gives a better consistency to their AP tiering. Still might have a few questions on them though, cause after rewatching the fight, i dont think any of them can scale to the Colossus, other than maybe Weiss' dust being able to stagger it (Which iirc, DeathBattle calced)

Thats going to be its own key

Would it not be better having its own page? We saw there was a difference between real Blake and Nightmare Blake despite them originally being one?

 

[Jinx666]

Thats another question

I remember before a mention of using Death Battle calcs? Given DeathBattle is owned by RT too, then the calcs they use surely have a legitimacy behind them, since they can always infer with the writers

 

[Cire]

Thats another question

I remember before a mention of using Death Battle calcs? Given DeathBattle is owned by RT too, then the calcs they use surely have a legitimacy behind them, since they can always infer with the writers

I’m on the Death Battle discord. Researchers have said that they don’t consult with the writers of RWBY on feats.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Well i mean these storm feats are based on Magic, which is (somehow) an established difference to the Aura/Semblances (the universal power system). The only characters with magic are Salem, Oz and the Maidens on Remnant. So despite this it does seem like it would be reliant on how well RWBY 'scales' to Maiden Cinder/Penny.

Ye, the storm she made uses the same magic she and the other maidens used for all of their other tier 7 feats

Ngl with the two feats of the Centinels (They clearly just weakened the foundation of the rock underneath, which in turn triggered the avalanche from underneath) and Ozpins shield (Cinder had never showed on-screen that she broke it. The last thing we saw of their fight was the clash, but that doesnt mean it was the end of the fight. All we know is Cinder managed to 'kill Ozpin', but that doenst mean she broke the forcefield definitely), it looked pretty skeptical

Yare yare...in the next CRT im gonna add a point about adding a note explaining the circumstances of Cinder breaking his shield, because in the last major CRT i literally did a second by second breakdown of the fight scenes which proved that she did in fact kill him by breaking his shield when he jumped at her

But seeing as there are more actual feats, just the RWBY profiles arent updated, gives a better consistency to their AP tiering. Still might have a few questions on them though, cause after rewatching the fight, i dont think any of them can scale to the Colossus, other than maybe Weiss' dust being able to stagger it (Which iirc, DeathBattle calced)

Almost everyone in the fight was able to put sizeable holes in its hull and Ruby was able to knock it over by tackling it, plus Weiss was able to block its dust cannon with her own dust and Jaune and Nora withstood being smacked by it

Would it not be better having its own page? We saw there was a difference between real Blake and Nightmare Blake despite them originally being one?

Oh yeah Negative Weiss and Negative Blake will have their own profiles, but the cast in the Nightmare will have nightmare world keys as well

Thats another question I remember before a mention of using Death Battle calcs? Given DeathBattle is owned by RT too, then the calcs they use surely have a legitimacy behind them, since they can always infer with the writers

That was proposed at one point yes, though it wouldnt change much as DB hasnt really calced anything beyond Volume 4 outside of Weiss' ice feat in volume 6.

 

[Jinx666]

I’m on the Death Battle discord. Researchers have said that they don’t consult with the writers of RWBY on feats.

Well yeah it'd be cheating but more or less using the Calcs, since its still somewhat an official RT source.

 

[Cire]

What’s the next CRT going to be about?

 

[Jinx666]

Yare yare...in the next CRT im gonna add a point about adding a note explaining the circumstances of Cinder breaking his shield, because in the last major CRT i literally did a second by second breakdown of the fight scenes which proved that she did in fact kill him by breaking his shield when he jumped at her

If you got the link to that i'd like to see it, but even from looking frame-by-frame myself the shield didnt break whatsoever.

Almost everyone in the fight was able to put sizeable holes in its hull and Ruby was able to knock it over by tackling it, plus Weiss was able to block its dust cannon with her own dust and Jaune and Nora withstood being smacked by it

Well yes but obviously piercing attacks that were treated like chip damage (Qrow literally stating it was their only option at beating the thing) are different to being able to generate a comparative power. The thing wasnt even broken, the only way it got defeated was Ruby jamming the cannons through triggering dust explosions within.
Jaune had to protect Nora using his semblance but it was still a major hit that pretty much put the two out of the fight. The Colossus is still literally the big super weapon, that Cordovin and Amity Arena game hypes up, that was capable of killing the Leviathan, so it doesnt make sense to scale such a widely regarded weapon to individual hunstmen who couldnt do any significant damage to it without exploiting weak spots.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Well yeah it'd be cheating but more or less using the Calcs, since its still somewhat an official RT source.

Reminds me i need to do a CRT adding stuff for AoT's guidebook, where they literally did officia calcs and scientific explanations for EVERYTHING

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If you got the link to that i'd like to see it, but even from looking frame-by-frame myself the shield didnt break whatsoever.

15:41 Ozpin tells Pyrrha and Jaune to leave the building, and at 15:52 they are shown nearing the exit. Immediately after from a timeframe standpoint, at 16:19, Cinder and Ozpin have a short talk and standoff which lasts until 16:38.



Episode 12 picks up immediately after this at 1:22, with their fight lasting until 1:51. Then at 3:28 it shows Jaune and Pyrrha making it out of the building, and then the final explosion with Cinder flying up the tower at 3:44

Cinder and Ozpin's fight lasted ~30 seconds

Subtracting the 11 seconds it took for Jaune and Pyrrha to get to the exit (with a few seconds accounted for the fact that they didnt get to the door itself in the scene and thus pent a few more seconds running) It took Jaune and Pyrrha ~30 seconds to get outside while Ozpin and Cinder were fighting.

The timeframes are effectively identical. And you literally hear beat for beat the booms of Cinder and Ozpin clashing in the scene where Jaune and Pyrrha are outside.

Well yes but obviously piercing attacks that were treated like chip damage (Qrow literally stating it was their only option at beating the thing) are different to being able to generate a comparative power. The thing wasnt even broken, the only way it got defeated was Ruby jamming the cannons through triggering dust explosions within.
Jaune had to protect Nora using his semblance but it was still a major hit that pretty much put the two out of the fight. The Colossus is still literally the big super weapon, that Cordovin and Amity Arena game hypes up, that was capable of killing the Leviathan, so it doesnt make sense to scale such a widely regarded weapon to individual hunstmen who couldnt do any significant damage to it without exploiting weak spots.

Ye, it scales above the cast but they were still able to damage it to an extent and knock it around with their stronger attacks

 

[Spinoirr]

15:41 Ozpin tells Pyrrha and Jaune to leave the building, and at 15:52 they are shown nearing the exit. Immediately after from a timeframe standpoint, at 16:19, Cinder and Ozpin have a short talk and standoff which lasts until 16:38.



Episode 12 picks up immediately after this at 1:22, with their fight lasting until 1:51. Then at 3:28 it shows Jaune and Pyrrha making it out of the building, and then the final explosion with Cinder flying up the tower at 3:44

Cinder and Ozpin's fight lasted ~30 seconds

Subtracting the 11 seconds it took for Jaune and Pyrrha to get to the exit (with a few seconds accounted for the fact that they didnt get to the door itself in the scene and thus pent a few more seconds running) It took Jaune and Pyrrha ~30 seconds to get outside while Ozpin and Cinder were fighting.

The timeframes are effectively identical. And you literally hear beat for beat the booms of Cinder and Ozpin clashing in the scene where Jaune and Pyrrha are outside.

Yeah Ozpin definitely died using his forcefield

 

[Cire]

I really hate to do this, but there is a legit argument that Oscar was amping up his shield using the stored power in the cane, thereby not really scaling to Ozpin’s shield. You can see the shield crackle with the same yellow lighting as the cane does, as well as Oscar having to access the shield with the cane in the first place, like he did in V7.

 

[Jinx666]

15:41 Ozpin tells Pyrrha and Jaune to leave the building, and at 15:52 they are shown nearing the exit. Immediately after from a timeframe standpoint, at 16:19, Cinder and Ozpin have a short talk and standoff which lasts until 16:38.

Episode 12 picks up immediately after this at 1:22, with their fight lasting until 1:51. Then at 3:28 it shows Jaune and Pyrrha making it out of the building, and then the final explosion with Cinder flying up the tower at 3:44

Cinder and Ozpin's fight lasted ~30 seconds

Subtracting the 11 seconds it took for Jaune and Pyrrha to get to the exit (with a few seconds accounted for the fact that they didnt get to the door itself in the scene and thus pent a few more seconds running) It took Jaune and Pyrrha ~30 seconds to get outside while Ozpin and Cinder were fighting.

The timeframes are effectively identical. And you literally hear beat for beat the booms of Cinder and Ozpin clashing in the scene where Jaune and Pyrrha are outside.

Well putting the wildly convenient timeframes aside, i still think to say that 'Cinder broke the forcefield' that we would...actually need to see the forcefield being broken rather than leaving it to a major assumption, when it was holding up pretty well. Cinder's maiden powers too were clearly at an extremely high extent when looking at the intensity of her attack even if they did, where its not like the shield was broken in one hit.

Like i genuinely dont think the timeframes lining up were intentional, but otherwise it just seems to be applying mental gymnastics when we dont Actually see the feat thats majorly scaling this. Ergo it feels pretty shaky

Also the barrier seems to be linked to the magic yeah, which means Ozpin wouldnt have wanted to waste all of it to keep reserves (as its finite), so he couldnt just hide in a shield the whole fight. Heck, he might have jobbed on purpose knowing he was gonna just reincarnate anyway and get out of a bad position.

Ye, it scales above the cast but they were still able to damage it to an extent and knock it around with their stronger attacks

It was only tripped and shook a little at best. None of any of the main cast could effectively put it down, only being able to exploit stuff like glass, the Fuel source, its own missiles etc. This wouldn't make it comparable to its AP just for doing whats essentially a bee sting to a regular human.

 

[Cire]

Well putting the wildly convenient timeframes aside, i still think to say that 'Cinder broke the forcefield' that we would...actually need to see the forcefield being broken rather than leaving it to a major assumption, when it was holding up pretty well. Cinder's maiden powers too were clearly at an extremely high extent when looking at the intensity of her attack even if they did, where its not like the shield was broken in one hit.

Like i genuinely dont think the timeframes lining up were intentional, but otherwise it just seems to be applying mental gymnastics when we dont Actually see the feat thats majorly scaling this. Ergo it feels pretty shaky

Also the barrier seems to be linked to the magic yeah, which means Ozpin wouldnt have wanted to waste all of it to keep reserves (as its finite), so he couldnt just hide in a shield the whole fight. Heck, he might have jobbed on purpose knowing he was gonna just reincarnate anyway and get out of a bad position.

It was only tripped and shook a little at best. None of any of the main cast could effectively put it down, only being able to exploit stuff like glass, the Fuel source, its own missiles etc. This wouldn't make it comparable to its AP just for doing whats essentially a bee sting to a regular human.

I sincerely doubt he would lose the fight where the fate of the kingdom, if not the world, would be at stake.

 

[Jinx666]

I sincerely doubt he would lose the fight where the fate of the kingdom, if not the world, would be at stake.

His job was to hold her off, and he also had the Beacon relic to protect. He just reincarnates otherwise and can keep himself from being captured. The whole thing about Salem wanting Ozpin dead, when she knows he can just keep reincarnating back wouldnt go against this either tbh

Clearly though Ozpin cant keep up with a Maiden without using his own magic, and since thats finite, theres no chance he would be able to kill Cinder even when he was essentially overpowering her from what we see in the fight. If he cant win, then his best option, from what i can interpret at least, is to hold her off as long as possible despite knowing hes gonna job regardless, and not waste more of his magic.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Well putting the wildly convenient timeframes aside, i still think to say that 'Cinder broke the forcefield' that we would...actually need to see the forcefield being broken rather than leaving it to a major assumption, when it was holding up pretty well. Cinder's maiden powers too were clearly at an extremely high extent when looking at the intensity of her attack even if they did, where its not like the shield was broken in one hit.

Like i genuinely dont think the timeframes lining up were intentional, but otherwise it just seems to be applying mental gymnastics when we dont Actually see the feat thats majorly scaling this. Ergo it feels pretty shaky

Considering RWBY uses puppet rigs and actually gives a shit about the choreography and timing of its fights, i'd wager its more than just convenient timeframes. Hell, in the fight between Maria and Tock, they timed Tock's semblance and threat of 'the last minute of your life' down to the second of being exactly one minute of combat.

Also the barrier seems to be linked to the magic yeah, which means Ozpin wouldnt have wanted to waste all of it to keep reserves (as its finite), so he couldnt just hide in a shield the whole fight. Heck, he might have jobbed on purpose knowing he was gonna just reincarnate anyway and get out of a bad position.

Problem with that is he outright confirms in volume 5 that he underestimated how little power he actually had left, meaning he used everything he had and didnt realize it wouldnt be enough until he ended up dead. Plus this was at a time where Remnant as a whole was genuinely in danger and Beacon was under attack. He would have had zero reason to hold back his reserves.

 

[Jinx666]

Considering RWBY uses puppet rigs and actually gives a shit about the choreography and timing of its fights, i'd wager its more than just convenient timeframes. Hell, in the fight between Maria and Tock, they timed Tock's semblance and threat of 'the last minute of your life' down to the second of being exactly one minute of combat.

I mean...Volume 5 Haven fight...
RWBY isnt perfect with their fights. Its impossible to be ig but theres a lot of very poor examples, mainly after Monty passed.

Except the timing for Tock's Semblance was a very specific scenario, in which Tock was bringing in the element that actually required timing. No one in V3 has a time-limited semblance. This was also in like, Volume 6? compared to V3 where a lot of the rigging had likely changed around, and they were using new animation engines.

Lowkey if they wanted to convey that Ozpin's shield wasnt holding up, there would have been like, cracks at the least within the lesser frames, but they wanted to leave Ozpins specific fate on a cliffhanger till V4.

I still don't think going through all this assumption when we dont actually see Cinder laying a dent on the forcefield, let alone breaking it, makes it definite enough to say she broke the forcefield. Like, there has to be a line in what we can assume when something genuinely has not been shown to happen.

Problem with that is he outright confirms in volume 5 that he underestimated how little power he actually had left, meaning he used everything he had and didnt realize it wouldnt be enough until he ended up dead. Plus this was at a time where Remnant as a whole was genuinely in danger and Beacon was under attack. He would have had zero reason to hold back his reserves.

His reason was that he didnt want to use up the last of his magic...

Ozpin as a guy has clearly faced and encountered salem numerous, multiple times. Theres a ton of dire situations hes probably been in, and hes just used to the reincarnation cycle. Not to say he definitely threw the fight, but it just seems he should be fully aware he could only hold her back. There was no saving Beacon

Plus if Ozpin was just being reckless with his magic, then the forcefield could have easily dissipated on that fact rather than Cinder breaking it.

 

[Jinx666]

Either way im going to bed but fr, Maybe it should be considered which feats are more definite than others.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I mean...Volume 5 Haven fight...
RWBY isnt perfect with their fights. Its impossible to be ig but theres a lot of very poor examples, mainly after Monty passed.

Except the timing for Tock's Semblance was a very specific scenario, in which Tock was bringing in the element that actually required timing. No one in V3 has a time-limited semblance. This was also in like, Volume 6? compared to V3 where a lot of the rigging had likely changed around, and they were using new animation engines.

Lowkey if they wanted to convey that Ozpin's shield wasnt holding up, there would have been like, cracks at the least within the lesser frames, but they wanted to leave Ozpins specific fate on a cliffhanger till V4.

I still don't think going through all this assumption when we dont actually see Cinder laying a dent on the forcefield, let alone breaking it, makes it definite enough to say she broke the forcefield. Like, there has to be a line in what we can assume when something genuinely has not been shown to happen.

So despite the timeframe of the fight lining up perfectly with Oz's death and Oz outright admitting that he got killed because he underestimated how powerful he was at the time, your argument is that they didnt specifically animate Oz's shield cracing so Cinder definitively could not have broken the shield.

Yet you complain about assumptions being made lmao

His reason was that he didnt want to use up the last of his magic...


Ozpin as a guy has clearly faced and encountered salem numerous, multiple times. Theres a ton of dire situations hes probably been in, and hes just used to the reincarnation cycle. Not to say he definitely threw the fight, but it just seems he should be fully aware he could only hold her back. There was no saving Beacon

Plus if Ozpin was just being reckless with his magic, then the forcefield could have easily dissipated on that fact rather than Cinder breaking it.

He doesnt use up magic, he only loses it gradually every time he reincarnates. The only thing he is able to use up is the stored energy from Long Memory.

Either way im going to bed but fr, Maybe it should be considered which feats are more definite than others.

As of now it has been unanimously agreed by everyone here as well as multiple staff that all of the feats in question are definite. Once again, you are the only one who doubts these things

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It sounds pretty blatant for that Cinder was able to overpower and destroy Ospin's shield, he legit considered her strength quite impressive.