RWBY revisions

[Keeweed]

Also how does a lifting feat equate into an attack potency feat? That doesn't sit right with me.

I actually find it strange we do the opposite. Lifting something should mean you have to over come its potential energy and majority of the time would have KE since you are moving it. You also have to not be crushed by the PE, so I have no clue why we having lifting strength often not scale. Especially since it leads to goofy stuff like a 7-B with class Y lifting strength (not kidding that’s a thing).

 

[LordGinSama]

Because she moves it and acquires Kinetic Energy.

For every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction, Penny is using 7-C levels of energy to lift Amity. Therefore there is 7-C levels going back into her body, without 7-C durability her own body would crumble underneath.

That's fair I suppose. My only real issue with it as this point is how does this scale to striking strength since she isn't stopping it via striking but rather flight, LS and durability.


Is there anything that implies that she can generate the same levels of energy with her strikes?

 

[TheRustyOne]

That's fair I suppose. My only real issue with it as this point is how does this scale to striking strength since she isn't stopping it via striking but rather flight, LS and durability.

She can injure people who can harm her, like the Ace-Ops as shown during their fight.

She gets hit, yells out in pain, and visually flinches from their attacks. And she can hurt them with her strikes as well. I think there might be more instances, but I haven't seen Volume 8 in awhile so I can't be sure.

 

[LordGinSama]

She can injure people who can harm her, like the Ace-Ops as shown during their fight.

Fair but how long did it take for her to stop it? I assume she didn't halt the KE automatically, as in as soon as she made contact with it that it wasn't halted. I'm underneath the assumption that she took some time to stop it?

She gets hit, yells out in pain, and visually flinches from their attacks. And she can hurt them with her strikes as well. I think there might be more instances, but I haven't seen Volume 8 in awhile so I can't be sure.

This is also fair


child's play I dropped the series after Vol 6 I think so I gotta pick it up again.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Fair but how long did it take for her to stop it? I assume she didn't halt the KE automatically, as in as soon as she made contact with it that it wasn't halted. I'm underneath the assumption that she took some time to stop it?

This is also fair


child's play I dropped the series after Vol 6 I think so I gotta pick it up again.

It began to slow when she touched it I believe, but it did not stop fully and go up until she did her maiden powers.

At least from what I’m seeing. Because after she touches and starts pushing it in base, it still seems to be falling.

 

[Dalesean027]

LS and durability.

If it's durability it scales regardless since the Ace Ops can hurt her

Also I agree with what the TheRustyOne has been saying after reading through this

 

[Dalesean027]

It began to slow when she touched it I believe, but it did not stop fully and go up until she did her maiden powers.

At least from what I’m seeing. Because after she touches and starts pushing it in base, it still seems to be falling.

Nah it still begins to lift looking at the screen in the clip that was sent then she adds her maiden powers on top of it

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Nah it still begins to lift looking at the screen in the clip that was sent then she adds her maiden powers on top of it

I couldn’t see because that screen in the show is bright as heck and my eyes are bad.

 

[Popted2]

@Popted2 Pyrrha helping Jaune was not the only point I argued. His aura dropped in 2 hits by this Grimm and these Grimm are treated like fodder to any and all competent Hunter and huntress. Why would he scale to anyone else when he struggles with the enemies everyone else has a hard time to beat?

Ok but later in volume 3 he was able to fight a team who are comparable to his comrades, the team BRNZ,
and Pyrrha even said that Jaune has a immense Aura quantity,
what i'm trying to say is probably this Grimm is stronger than you think, and he didn't make him drope completely but just a large part
as i said he does scale in power not in skill, thats why he struggles with some enemies, and this is volume 1 and in volume 3 did what he did

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Do Boarbatusks count as fodder Grimm and scale to fodder Grimm? BoS Weiss had trouble killing one without aiming for its unarmored belly.
While Atlesian Knights are demonstratebly not durable, this is not relevant for scaling as their main method of attack is to shoot with their rifles, which are able to oneshot creeps and take down Ursai with a few shots.
A possible compromise is to give a Varies rating since fodder Grimm are able to evolve and grow in strength with time.

Roman scales to the cast because he is able to keep up with Blake and Sun tag teaming him, blocking numerous hits and counterattacking, and he had no issue counterattacking Ruby while she is rushing him with her Semblance. While Blake managed to beat him, it is of note that she caught him off guard by combining Dust with her Semblance, and Roman was planning to get himself caught so it is questionable whether he fought seriously. Also Roman was eaten by a giant Griffon; not the common smaller ones.

Ren had his weapons knocked out of him, and he had to resort to advanced Aura techniques we rarely see; he definetly had a tough fight. In After the Fall, a King Taijitu gave team CFVY trouble, so I wouldn't lump it with the fodder Grimm.

The snake thrashed around, trying to dislodge Fox, as it raced around the desert. Bullets from Coco’s Gatling gun followed it around. Coco was here? A bullet whistled just past Fox’s ear. “Sorry!” Velvet said. Velvet again. But without Coco’s ability to enhance the strength of her bullets, her hard-light gun couldn’t do much damage on the King Taijitu. Fox twisted his left arm blade and the snake veered left. He twisted to the right, and it turned right. He could steer the Grimm! The question was, where should he take it?

Doesn't a Ursa Major give Yang a tough fight in her short?

An additional weakness I'd add to Aura is that sufficiently strong stabbing attacks can momentarily pierce through Aura without depleting it.

1. Adam stabbed Sienna
2. Weiss' Queen Lancer summon stabbed Hazel (Miles confirmed that it momentarily pierced through his Aura)
3. Cinder stabbed Vernal with her Grimm arm
4. Cinder stabbed Penny with her Grimm arm

---

The Maiden scaling counterargument is what I have the most disagreement with. The percieved anti-feats are rather weak when compared to the evidence for it.

Characters not getting killed off or maimed by Maiden attacks is evidence they scale. This is what the writers said about Adam immensely strong attack cutting Yang's arm and depleting her Aura at the same time:

Miles Luna: [On aura] We establish in the tournament fights that every hit can drop it and some hits can break it. It just so happens that Adam's attack was so badass that in one hit it managed to break it and do damage all at once. It was just super powerful. Kerry Shawcross: Yang had also been fighting off-screen too. Miles Luna: It's not necessarily a sword thing more than just like "Oh, he's strong. Oh, he's a scary man."

Aura doesn't nullify the attack that depleted it.

Vine containing the bomb's explosion Non-Maiden characters keeping up with Cinder and surviving her attacks Winter blocking Ironwood's BFG with gylph Winter Maiden Winter reflecting Ironwood's BFG back at him

• Vine contained the nuke which would blow up Mantle by expanding his Aura with his Sembalance.
• Cinder failed to one-shot the protagonists. They can exchange multiple melee attacks with her and survive her ranged attacks, and Cinder had to put in effort in order to snap Jaune's sword. This is consistent with Ace Ops harming Maiden Penny, which we previously dismissed as Penny being an inexperienced Maiden but Winter is an inexperienced Maiden and she did fine.
• Ironwood's BFG was prepared specifically to fight Maiden Penny if she refuses to cooperate, but Winter managed to block it with her Gylph and Ironwood survived it.

Penny oneshot Nepolitian with her most powerful attack, failing to maim or kill her.
Neopolitan was stated by Cinder to be a better fighter than she was at Vale, and character exhaustion is inconsistently applied and it is possible it was applied to Yang for a more dramatic scene.

Have issues with Amber's storm calc

The sky was already cloudy (so the clouds weren't neccessarily dragged from the horizon), and the weather is foggy and the mountains/hill can act as obstructions so the field of view can be lower than a clear sky's 20 km. Using 20 km with the Raven storm calc we'd get Low 7-B too.

---

Salem was not unfazed by the God of Darkness' attack; she regenerated back to life since her body was glowing just like it did when it was turned to ash. If the God of Darkness exterminatus is deconstruction, then Salem regenerated from deconstruction.

God of Darkness redirecting the magical attacks and collecting their energy into a ball sounds like absorption to me. Maybe not absorption into his body, but absorption nonetheless.

 

[Keeweed]

Raven’s storm didn’t go over the horizon though. That’s the whole reason it was high 7-C. Raven’s feat has already been accurately calculated.

Amber didn’t make a storm, the storm was clearly already there.

The nuke was also removed in an other thread as an outlier so that shouldn’t be used unless a new thread is made.

 

[Spinoirr]

Also she Regen from Oscars KE nuke that vaporized hazel and her so it doesn't even matter lol

 

[Spinoirr]

Raven’s storm didn’t go over the horizon though. That’s the whole reason it was high 7-C. Raven’s feat has already been accurately calculated.

Amber didn’t make a storm, the storm was clearly already there.

There is actually a recalc I believe

 

[Keeweed]

A newer recalc? Because the recalc I saw was still high 7-C.

 

[Keeweed]

Also she Regen from Oscars KE nuke that vaporized hazel and her so it doesn't even matter lol

I’m pretty sure the op said she was vaporized, just that vaporization would be lower than the regen she currently has listed.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

For Raven's storm:
The original calc appears to assume a horizon of 3600 m based on human height.
The recalc angsizes the hill, to get a horizon of 2151.6 m.

Neither of the calcs assumes an unobscured horizon of 20 km, as if they are on boat in the middle of the ocean. If they did they would enter the Low 7-B territory.

---

This is a new thread, and the scaling briefly critized in the other thread doesn't reflect the argument used:

• It was associated with a weird Aura scaling + multplier, where character durability is massively higher than their AP
• The high-end for the bomb of 7-B was assumed for durability but not AP, when I'd like to scale Vine to Penny's 7-C in both durability and AP. The low-end for the bomb is just a tier above at High 7-C, which is consistent with the Long Memory's explosion which yeeted Monstra

 

[Keeweed]

A bomb stated to be capable of killing the Monstra happens to be comparable to the explosion that did kill Monstra, ok.

What does that have to do with rwby scaling to it. Heck if anything that makes it even less consistent for characters to scale to it since everyone was ******** themselves over the whale and specifically thought they needed that nuke to kill it. Now maybe I misreading what you are saying terribly but are you saying their durability should scale above the Mantra by scaling to the explosion despite it 1) killing vine in the end and 2) being a massive outlier even ignoring how he didn’t fully stop it and died to it.

Also I’m about to eat, so I won’t be able to respond for a bit.

 

[Theglassman12]

Penny needed to use her Maiden powers, because she cannot lift Amity for long in her base. I imagine lifting Amity like that took everything she had, she probably would've been drained had she not used her Maiden powers.

@TheRustyOne So you admit she can’t keep it up in base form, meaning she could only do it in her maiden powers. So therefore this doesn’t scale to her base form.

@Popted2 Was he actually able to keep up with them or was he just trying to be the strategist? Because last time I checked he didn’t do as much work in terms of fighting them off and keeping up with his partners as he did in Volume 4 and onward. His aura dropped to the red gauge is what I meant, AKA he’s close to losing the fight via his aura breaking and being mauled to death. If he scaled in power then he shouldn’t have lost to Cardin, the same dude who gets his ass kicked by Pyrrha despite having his team back him up.

@ShadowWhoWalks Weiss was distracted by Ruby during that fight, that’s what was making it a nuisance for her, she still defeated it on her own which doesn’t exactly help the boarbatusk scaling.

the Knights still aren’t that durable when I’ve shown a clip of normal people being able to break them with street items. Meaning their feats of taking them down is not that impressive. I wouldn’t mind a “higher” with evolution since that isn’t out of the ordinary given the giant mammoth Grimm are stated to have gone stronger over time.

if it was the giant Griffon, shouldn’t there be a separate key for that one?

If that’s what’s stated in the novel then it should be rewritten by saying team CVFY had trouble with them in the novel.

That was a pre beacon Yang, something I addressed in the OP as saying it wouldn’t help them scale to that level when she destroys these same enemies in droves in V1-3.

Wasn’t Penny’s aura flickering before she got stabbed? The rest seems fine but I’m not sure if the Penny one counts given her aura was close to depletion.

Them not getting killed off or maimed doesn’t disprove my point. By this logic any person that Goku chops in the neck for a knockout scales to him because he didn’t kill them outright.
*vine’s aura is an outlier for scaling as addressed in the last CRT for the V8 characters scaling, so idk why you’re bringing this feat up.
*Cinder burned Weiss’ semblance numerous times, had a few stray bombs hit Weiss, her falling after Cinder blasted her summon made her aura flicker, and the floor bomb drained all of Weiss’ aura and she did it with no issue, one blast to Ruby drained her aura easily and she couldn’t do anything. Hell the entire fight Penny was taking all the blows for the team, and Weiss was getting thrashed afterwards and Jaune’s sword broke from one strike when Cinder actually started to try.
It doesn’t matter that it didn’t maim or kill her, the fact she was out of the fight in general means she doesn’t scale.
Where was Yang exhausted in the episode though? This is complete headcanon as she had rest in the schnee manor and didn’t fight anyone between then and the fight with Cinder.

so again, that would still be an outlier thanks to the bomb Ozpin made.

the body glowing wasn’t regeneration it was her immortality. Hell she gets vaporized by the bomb in a very similar manor and it takes her a far longer time to regenerate. Either it’s inconsistent with how her regeneration works, or she just resisted the attack as her body was intact while everyone else was still Thanos’d.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

They'd downscale to it, since Vine was able to successfully contain most of the explosion with his Aura, at the cost of getting obliterated. This is the best feat for Huntsmen and Huntresses, and is further evidence that their top-tier can be Tier 7; overall consistency indicate that they scale to Penny at 7-C.

 

[TheRustyOne]

@TheRustyOne So you admit she can’t keep it up in base form, meaning she could only do it in her maiden powers. So therefore this doesn’t scale to her base form.

What... don't put words in other person's mouth. That is extremely disrespectful.

She is 7-C, end of discussion unless you say it is an outlier. She performed an 7-C feat in base, she cannot perform that 7-C feat forever. How does that equal her not being 7-C? Her stamina isn't infinite and using the Maiden powers would put less of a burden on her.

You have yet to prove anything, you try to say her being hacked didn't effect her strength at all but have provided no proof. You are making the claim here, so the burden of proof falls on you. I've proven that the virus effect her physical strength, as she couldn't focus to activate her Maiden powers nor lift Amity.

Even though she could do both of those things before the virus, understanding context should tell you that the virus is bothering her so much that she cannot perform at her 100% capacity.

 

[Keeweed]

How do you downscale from something, that by your own word, completely obliterated him. He was flash vaporized by the Bomb and didn’t even successfully contain it, but he scales? In what world does getting as truly obliterated as a person can be obliterated do they scale to what killed them.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Neutral on most of this since I don't know the series but I do agree with the God Brothers Regeneration removal. I actually made a thread about it in the past. I also agree with the removal of Type 5 Immortality. Also, wouldn't their Type 3 Immortality get removed as well?

 

[Keeweed]

I accidentally hit cancel instead of save. Screw me in the butt.

Anyways: I think penny being 7-C is fine, Cinder has a low 7-C feat to back it up (though I think it is heat related and that doesn’t scale to characters anymore).

I’m neutral on characters scaling to the maidens. They can do stuff to them, but very barely and the maidens easily plow through them. Plus it massively breaks the story if the characters do scale, but the story is already broken anyways.

I personally don’t agree with people scaling to maidens but I can see why people say they can.

 

[Theglassman12]

I never put words in your mouth, you said she wouldn’t have been able to do it for long had she not used her maiden power, meaning she wouldn’t be able to replicate the feat in base.

she’s a robot, robots by default have infinite stamina so idk why you’re saying that.

 

[Theglassman12]

@LordGriffin1000 yeah their type 3 would be removed as well, meaning they’d just have type 1 immortality.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I never put words in your mouth, you said she wouldn’t have been able to do it for long had she not used her maiden power, meaning she wouldn’t be able to replicate the feat in base.

she’s a robot, robots by default have infinite stamina so idk why you’re saying that.

No they don't, robots aren't assumed to have infinite power sources. That's a horrible assumption to ever make, and logically makes zero sense.

We've seen Penny get tired I believe, so no she doesn't have infinite stamina nor does she have an infinite Aura.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I never put words in your mouth, you said she wouldn’t have been able to do it for long had she not used her maiden power, meaning she wouldn’t be able to replicate the feat in base.

She still performed it, any reason to ignore that? Also you clearly choose to ignore my points, why is that?

Penny was able to lift in base Amity and use her Maiden powers right after. After she was hacked she was unable to use her Maiden powers, nor lift Amity in base. What the context of this scene is telling us should be obvious, the virus is preventing her from being able to use 100% of her strength.

Because her body is shutting down, and she's fighting a sudden strong desire to leave and open the vault. Now can you provide proof that this is incorrect?

At this point you aren't ever going to agree with me, how about we ask for vote about the 7-C thing so we can end this?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Undead and Robots haven't been assumed to have infinite stamina since forever.

 

[Theglassman12]

I didn’t say infinite power sources, I said infinite stamina, there’s a difference there.

100% of her strength as in her Maiden Powers. Because you clearly see she’s unable to have the maiden eyes.

When she got hacked completely in the schnee manor, she didn’t shut down. She just went straight to the vault to try and open it. That’s what Watts intended for her to do, not literally shut down otherwise how can they open the vault in the first place when he’s trying to help Salem get the Relics?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I didn’t say infinite power sources, I said infinite stamina, there’s a difference there.

100% of her strength as in her Maiden Powers. Because you clearly see she’s unable to have the maiden eyes.

When she got hacked completely in the schnee manor, she didn’t shut down. She just went straight to the vault to try and open it. That’s what Watts intended for her to do, not literally shut down otherwise how can they open the vault in the first place when he’s trying to help Salem get the Relics?

Undead and Robots haven't been assumed to have infinite stamina since forever.

 

[Theglassman12]

Last time I checked there was numerous robot characters on the wiki with infinite stamina because they don’t tire out due to being a robot.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Last time I checked there was numerous robot characters on the wiki with infinite stamina because they don’t tire out due to being a robot.

Then they should be downgraded unless they have feats/statements to assume infinite stamina.

 

[Theglassman12]

Anyways: I think penny being 7-C is fine, Cinder has a low 7-C feat to back it up (though I think it is heat related and that doesn’t scale to characters anymore).

Them being 7-C I’m fine with, I’m mostly arguing against them being Low 7-B physically since that’s not consistent with the newer volumes stuff.

 

[Popted2]

@Popted2 Was he actually able to keep up with them or was he just trying to be the strategist? Because last time I checked he didn’t do as much work in terms of fighting them off and keeping up with his partners as he did in Volume 4 and onward. His aura dropped to the red gauge is what I meant, AKA he’s close to losing the fight via his aura breaking and being mauled to death. If he scaled in power then he shouldn’t have lost to Cardin, the same dude who gets his ass kicked by Pyrrha despite having his team back him up.

he was able to keep up with them, not just trying to be the strategist,
he lost to Cardin because at that time Jaune had never been in a academy, he didn't even know what Aura was, before Pyrrha telled him, Jaune was literally an amateur put in a school of experts.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Weiss was distracted by Ruby during that fight, that’s what was making it a nuisance for her, she still defeated it on her own which doesn’t exactly help the boarbatusk scaling.

Boartusk tanked an attack and Weiss had her sword stuck with little to no interference from Ruby. Also, even Ruby recommended attacking the unarmored belly.


If we scale characters only if no one loses the fight, there wouldn't be nearly as much scaling happening.

the Knights still aren’t that durable when I’ve shown a clip of normal people being able to break them with street items. Meaning their feats of taking them down is not that impressive. I wouldn’t mind a “higher” with evolution since that isn’t out of the ordinary given the giant mammoth Grimm are stated to have gone stronger over time.

Sure, the drones can have crap durability, but get decent AP from scaling through their rifles.

if it was the giant Griffon, shouldn’t there be a separate key for that one?

If that’s what’s stated in the novel then it should be rewritten by saying team CVFY had trouble with them in the novel.

Additional key makes sense.

I'd argue that both Ren and CFVY had trouble.

That was a pre beacon Yang, something I addressed in the OP as saying it wouldn’t help them scale to that level when she destroys these same enemies in droves in V1-3.

'Pre-Beacon Yang' likely means a month or two before Beacon since Yang said that she'll be leavng to Beacon soon. It is a massive jump to say that she went from severely struggling against an Ursa to casually oneshotting Ursai of similar level within that timeframe.

It remains more consistent that the Ursa Major Jaune fought was much stronger than the average Ursa without it being an anti-feat.

Them not getting killed off or maimed doesn’t disprove my point. By this logic any person that Goku chops in the neck for a knockout scales to him because he didn’t kill them outright.
*vine’s aura is an outlier for scaling as addressed in the last CRT for the V8 characters scaling, so idk why you’re bringing this feat up.
*Cinder burned Weiss’ semblance numerous times, had a few stray bombs hit Weiss, her falling after Cinder blasted her summon made her aura flicker, and the floor bomb drained all of Weiss’ aura and she did it with no issue, one blast to Ruby drained her aura easily and she couldn’t do anything. Hell the entire fight Penny was taking all the blows for the team, and Weiss was getting thrashed afterwards and Jaune’s sword broke from one strike when Cinder actually started to try.
It doesn’t matter that it didn’t maim or kill her, the fact she was out of the fight in general means she doesn’t scale.
Where was Yang exhausted in the episode though? This is complete headcanon as she had rest in the schnee manor and didn’t fight anyone between then and the fight with Cinder.

Cinder was trying to kill or maim; she wasn't holding back for the sake of knockouts (not that the characters were knocked out for any significant time to begin with).

The scaling used here is different from the multplier-based scaling discussed in the previous CRT as previously explained.

The difference between Maiden Cinder and the protagonists is demonstrably not as severe as the difference between Adam's Moonslice and Volume 3 Yang if she had to struggle so much for little results.

In the end of Volume 7 the Ace Ops stated that they are too tired to fight an other wave of Grimm. In the beginning of Volume 8 Weiss states "We’re never going to sleep again, I just know it."
Claiming that the characters are fully rested or close to fully rested is a headcanon.

the body glowing wasn’t regeneration it was her immortality. Hell she gets vaporized by the bomb in a very similar manor and it takes her a far longer time to regenerate. Either it’s inconsistent with how her regeneration works, or she just resisted the attack as her body was intact while everyone else was still Thanos’d.

The scene cuts to Salem waking up; hours could've passed by the time she woke up, so no inconsistency or issue in that regard.

---

How do you downscale from something, that by your own word, completely obliterated him. He was flash vaporized by the Bomb and didn’t even successfully contain it, but he scales? In what world does getting as truly obliterated as a person can be obliterated do they scale to what killed them.

Since Vine contained and dissipated most of the force of the explosion before his Aura was depleted.

 

[Keeweed]

We have a rule that characters don’t scale to things that stomp them. This didn’t just stomp Vine it completely obliterated him and he failed to fully stop the explosion he shouldn’t scale. Especially since we never actually saw the nuke explode at any other time and the tier we gave it is entirely an educated guess.

Raven’s storm feats don’t scale to maidens’ base and are lower than the bomb (Amber didn’t make a storm, it was already there, and you were the one that posted the calcs saying Raven’s storm is high 7-C).

Team Rwby massively backscale from base Cinder at best.

So Vine scaling to a feat above the peak maidens’, despite it completely obliterating him, is ridiculous.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Why is Vine downscaling from a feat that not only would put him on the same tier of the maidens, who literally stomp out the other people he actually scales to, but also the feat literally obliterated his body from existence.

 

[Keeweed]

“
In the end of Volume 7 the Ace Ops stated that they are too tired to fight an other wave of Grimm. In the beginning of Volume 8 Weiss states "We’re never going to sleep again, I just know it."
Claiming that the characters are fully rested or close to fully rested is a headcanon.”

Yang had an hour or so to rest at the manor before Neo broke her aura, Yangs aura was also not broken before that point. Meanwhile James had his aura broken after the manor stuff and got up a couple minutes later and had enough aura to fight winter.

I don’t see why Yang’s aura would be in the toilet, unless her aura takes forever to recharge.

Plus are we really going to us that line from Weiss as proof they were tired throughout the entire volume. Ignoring the ton of rest they had at the manor, that line was a joke throw away that also messes with the story since it says our main characters seem to not care about atlas, over their own rest.

 

[LordGinSama]

Also I feel like the God Brothers should have their 5-A calc looked at.

 

[Spinoirr]

Also I feel like the God Brothers should have their 5-A calc looked at.

It actually got a recalc that's still 5-A, just lower