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RWBY revisions

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We had a whole discussion about how dumb Aura is since it's inconsistent. I don't think we can reliably use the Aura argument to say Ace Ops can't hurt Penny. But I still believe it is egregious that a majority of the cast scales to a single character that is consistently portrayed as being stronger and more significant than her peers.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
We had a whole discussion about how dumb Aura is since it's inconsistent. I don't think we can reliably use the Aura argument to say Ace Ops can't hurt Penny. But I still believe it is egregious that a majority of the cast scales to a single character that is consistently portrayed as being stronger and more significant than her peers.
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Now THAT is a fair argument.

Are there any other feats from RWBY characters in this key that could call this scaling into question?
 
Sir_Ovens said:
We had a whole discussion about how dumb Aura is since it's inconsistent. I don't think we can reliably use the Aura argument to say Ace Ops can't hurt Penny. But I still believe it is egregious that a majority of the cast scales to a single character that is consistently portrayed as being stronger and more significant than her peers.
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When has this happened, please show me the scenes where Base Penny is one shotting and casually flexing on the rest of the cast and being massively superior to them? Just being stronger doesn't mean she's god tier compared to them and they stand less than a zero percent chance.

If you people have such a problem with 7-C, why not say it's an outlier?

Ace-Ops scale to Base Penny, and whoever scales to them.
 
Hell even if they are two times weaker then base penny, they would still be town level, so they would still be town level
 
Also this argument that Maidens being tier 7 is an outlier also makes no sense as Oscar's feat was done with The Long Memory, a weapon, not his own magic, plus Cinder literally destroyed the barrier that Oscar used to protect himself from the blast in her fight with Ozpin. The Long Memory has nothing to do with the magic users of the verse as it's a blast of stored kinetic energy, not magic

Also Cinder herself has a casual Low 7-C AP feat from volume 8
 
I'm pretty sure that Low 7-C feat was with her Maiden powers, since Cinder's Semblance isn't what lets her shoot fireballs.

Ozpin spent multiple lifetimes building up that energy, the blast was so strong that Cinder and Watts weren't even sure if Salem herself made it out without damage. We know that Ozpin can use magic to increase his physical strength, and we've seen the Maidens do so as well.

That blast ripped apart the biggest/strongest Grimm in the series and is still vastly weaker than Amber's "storm". That is the text book definition of outlier, Amber a far weaker character casually produces a feat that is much stronger than the Long Memory Explosion.

Also she didn't even make a storm, those clouds were there in the beginning. To me it looks like she just manipulated the clouds that were already there to produce lightning, she didn't create anything like Raven did.

At the least I'm not okay with anything scaling to the Long Memory explosion.
 
@Popted2 Pyrrha helping Jaune was not the only point I argued. His aura dropped in 2 hits by this Grimm and these Grimm are treated like fodder to any and all competent Hunter and huntress. Why would he scale to anyone else when he struggles with the enemies everyone else has a hard time to beat?

@Spinoirr The fact she had to tap into her own Maiden powers to do the rest of the feat tells me otherwise, also no one at all could damage her aura to the point it flickered or broke, something the show itself hammers home on it being a legit thing In terms of how characters lose or not.

that clip doesn’t tell me anything about disease manipulation. Fire Drought and Famine isn’t a sickness so is there any other clip or is that it? If that’s it I’m still proposing the ability to be removed.

Did you actually read what the **** I said? I never said them being tier 7 is an outlier, I said Low 7-B Maidens is an outlier, they shouldn’t be that much stronger than the dude they got their powers from, who had centuries worth of prep time to store his kinetic energy into the cane if all it yielded was a High 7-C explosion right?

Also stop with the appeal to motive fallacy, saying people just hate RWBY on the site isn’t helping your case here when we’re discussing their scaling.

@TheRustyOne You do realize the Aura has been used as a health bar in the fights right? Given all the clips I’ve shown on how Aura is jandledAnd characters get knocked out easily when their aura depletes? That alone tells us the Ace Ops do not scale when Penny’s aura didn’t flicker.
 
TheRustyOne said:
I'm pretty sure that Low 7-C feat was with her Maiden powers, since Cinder's Semblance isn't what lets her shoot fireballs.

Ozpin spent multiple lifetimes building up that energy, the blast was so strong that Cinder and Watts weren't even sure if Salem herself made it out without damage. We know that Ozpin can use magic to increase his physical strength, and we've seen the Maidens do so as well.

That blast ripped apart the biggest/strongest Grimm in the series and is still vastly weaker than Amber's "storm". That is the text book definition of outlier, Amber a far weaker character casually produces a feat that is much stronger than the Long Memory Explosion.

Also she didn't even make a storm, those clouds were there in the beginning. To me it looks like she just manipulated the clouds that were already there to produce lightning, she didn't create anything like Raven did.

At the least I'm not okay with anything scaling above to the Long Memory explosion.
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I'm talking about his maiden scaleing problems
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Popted2 Pyrrha helping Jaune was not the only point I argued. His aura dropped in 2 hits by this Grimm and these Grimm are treated like fodder to any and all competent Hunter and huntress. Why would he scale to anyone else when he struggles with the enemies everyone else has a hard time to beat?

@Spinoirr The fact she had to tap into her own Maiden powers to do the rest of the feat tells me otherwise, also no one at all could damage her aura to the point it flickered or broke, something the show itself hammers home on it being a legit thing In terms of how characters lose or not.

that clip doesn’t tell me anything about disease manipulation. Fire Drought and Famine isn’t a sickness so is there any other clip or is that it? If that’s it I’m still proposing the ability to be removed.

Did you actually read what the **** I said? I never said them being tier 7 is an outlier, I said Low 7-B Maidens is an outlier, they shouldn’t be that much stronger than the dude they got their powers from, who had centuries worth of prep time to store his kinetic energy into the cane if all it yielded was a High 7-C explosion right?

Also stop with the appeal to motive fallacy, saying people just hate RWBY on the site isn’t helping your case here when we’re discussing their scaling.

@TheRustyOne You do realize the Aura has been used as a health bar in the fights right? Given all the clips I’ve shown on how Aura is jandledAnd characters get knocked out easily when their aura depletes? That alone tells us the Ace Ops do not scale when Penny’s aura didn’t flicker.
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Chill out, no need for that language
 
Theglassman12 said:
@TheRustyOne You do realize the Aura has been used as a health bar in the fights right? Given all the clips I’ve shown on how Aura is jandledAnd characters get knocked out easily when their aura depletes? That alone tells us the Ace Ops do not scale when Penny’s aura didn’t flicker.
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90% of fights have no Aura flicker whatsoever.. Tons of characters would stop scaling to each other because there is no flicker.

Her screaming in pain is perfect sign that she scales, she is being hurt by their attacks. You should calm down man, let's not get so heated and keep our cool.
 
Aura doesn’t need to flicker for someone to scale.

If that is our standard, than a lot of people are about to be downgraded to Unknown
 
I’ve been wanting to make a downgrade for low 7-B maidens for a while now. The storm was already there before Amber interacted with it. I don’t remember her moving the entire thing only a small portion she used to attack Cinder. Granted I maybe misremembering the scene so I’ll watch it again but I believe the storm was already there.

Edit: Yeah the storm was there the whole scene why do we attribute it to Amber again?
 
I agree with Low 7-B downgraded, the calc is flawed and it'd be an outlier anyway.

Ace-Ops scale to Base Penny, as she was unable to one shot any of them and consistently yelled out in pain and flinched from their attacks. If Penny stays 7-C or not is all up to you guys, if she does then they're 7-C, if not then they aren't.
 
Keeweed said:
I’ve been wanting to make a downgrade for low 7-B maidens for a while now. The storm was already there before Amber interacted with it. I don’t remember her moving the entire thing only a small portion she used to attack Cinder. Granted I maybe misremembering the scene so I’ll watch it again but I believe the storm was already there.
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It was, she just summoned lightning from it.

Raven’s storm is a different matter though cause that was actually her
 
@Kingofwolves999 @TheRustyOne I am cool, I’m asking why would they scale when Aura in the show is shown how they scale in the first place. And again, Penny had to tap into her Maiden powers to do the feat successfully. Otherwise why would she use her Maiden powers if not for the fact she needed help? Her base state scaling I don’t understand why it would scale, especially later on in the scene when she was hacked and couldn’t use her Maiden powers she couldn’t lift the tower back up again.
 
Edit: making it clear I’m responding to Kingofwolves.

Yeah but that storm has always been high 7-C since it doesn’t cover the full horizon and has been calculated. They are currently low 7-B for Amber and that storm seems to have been there without her.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Kingofwolves999 @TheRustyOne I am cool, I’m asking why would they scale when Aura in the show is shown how they scale in the first place. And again, Penny had to tap into her Maiden powers to do the feat successfully. Otherwise why would she use her Maiden powers if not for the fact she needed help? Her base state scaling I don’t understand why it would scale, especially later on in the scene when she was hacked and couldn’t use her Maiden powers she couldn’t lift the tower back up again.
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Oh really? Can you link that? If she couldn’t replicate this feat without her powers then that calls into question the feat scaling to her base
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Kingofwolves999 @TheRustyOne I am cool, I’m asking why would they scale when Aura in the show is shown how they scale in the first place. And again, Penny had to tap into her Maiden powers to do the feat successfully. Otherwise why would she use her Maiden powers if not for the fact she needed help? Her base state scaling I don’t understand why it would scale, especially later on in the scene when she was hacked and couldn’t use her Maiden powers she couldn’t lift the tower back up again.
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She was shown to initially move Amity without her Maiden powers, and she then used her power for a greater push. Someone posted the scene above, and it shows her moving it without her Maiden powers. She likely couldn't do that for long in her base, so she needed the Maiden powers.
 
@Kingofwolves999 right here at the 22:30 mark. She wasn’t using her Maiden Powers and you can see the tower slowly descending despite her trying to push it back, meaning the previous time she did it it was thanks to her Maiden powers the tower got to orbit.
 
What are you talking about, she is suffering from a virus and can barely focus. We also know that her systems are shutting down in order to reboot as well.

This here, show her lifting Amity before she activates her powers.
 
@Kingofwolves999 her hacking resulted in her not using her maiden powers as you can see with no glow. She’s literally back to her base state and she couldn’t push it back up.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Kingofwolves999 her hacking resulted in her not using her maiden powers as you can see with no glow. She’s literally back to her base state and she couldn’t push it back up.
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No, it’s more like, because she’s getting hacked, she can’t put her full power into stopping the descent. So it’s not really an anti-feat because she’s not at her best.
 
The hacking wasn't meant to stop her from using her Maiden powers, the hacking was done to make her go and open the vaults. She was shown to previously lift Amity up without her powers, then she's hacked and can't do it anymore. It's obvious that the hack is effect her systems so much that she can't put her power into lifting Amity.

Her body is shutting down and she's trying to fight her sudden urge she has to leave and open the vault.
 
@TheRustyOne she used the maiden powers to push it up all the way at the end. Yeah and she was fighting the urge to leave as she wasn’t completely hacked there with the 100% red eyes, but this is her at her base state and you clearly see the tower descending despite this being base Penny as she’s not using the maiden powers here. Her strength didn’t alter when the virus kicked in.
 
...My apologies I must be speaking incorrectly.

Penny was shown to lift Amity in her base state, she then activates her Maiden powers to push it further up.

Later on she gets hacked and stops using her Maiden powers, the hack is so bad that she can't focus enough to turn her Maiden powers back on.

She tries to lift Amity in her base state again but is unable to do so. The answer here is obvious. Since she's currently being hacked she cannot put the same amount of power in her lift like she did previously. This means this isn't an anti feat, because if she wasn't hacked she could've moved it in her base.

Sorry if I was unclear, but that should be good enough right? She can't lift Amity because of Watt's virus, which was causing her body to shut down and was so bad that she couldn't even focus enough to turn on her Maiden powers.
 
Cinder only fears Salem is because
1. Her magic is stronger then prime Ozma (you know, the same Ozma who has yet to give most of his magic to the 4 girls) as she killed him and hurt him before killing him
2. She is immortal and can Regen from getting vaporized as shown by the KE nuke ozpin fired at her
3. She can make cinder feel pain though her Grimm arm

But yes, Salem is a glass cannon
 
@TheRustyOne Here’s my issue with the feat, if her lifting the tower was 100% base form I wouldn’t have a problem with it, but the fact she activated maiden powers to finish it, and her only being in base form but struggling to replicate this feat puts her base scaling to question.

As for the Watts virus it wasn’t supposed to shut her down, it’s supposed to command her to go to the vault, the shutting down part was something not supposed to happen, as Watts himself explained in the volume that she’s somehow fighting back despite her supposed to be a mindless robot doing one order like he planned her to do.
 
@Spinoirr Raven also feared Salem too and she doesn’t have a Grimm arm, so the third point doesn’t apply to the rest of the maidens.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Spinoirr Raven also feared Salem too and she doesn’t have a Grimm arm, so the third point doesn’t apply to the rest of the maidens.
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Raven also said that Salem can't be beaten, because she probably knows lots given her team was close to ozpin and she probably used the relic. Given it only had 2 questions it can use when the gang get it and it recarges it 100 years even though it can answer 3 questions
 
That doesn’t debunk my point that the maidens don’t believe they can beat her.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@TheRustyOne Here’s my issue with the feat, if her lifting the tower was 100% base form I wouldn’t have a problem with it, but the fact she activated maiden powers to finish it, and her only being in base form but struggling to replicate this feat puts her base scaling to question.

As for the Watts virus it wasn’t supposed to shut her down, it’s supposed to command her to go to the vault, the shutting down part was something not supposed to happen, as Watts himself explained in the volume that she’s somehow fighting back despite her supposed to be a mindless robot doing one order like he planned her to do.
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That's irrelevant, she was shutting down and clearly can't put her 100% into lifting Amity.

If she was unable to lift Amity, even though she did it in her base. Then the answer is clear, the virus was affecting her strength as she was being heavily compelled to leave and open the vault. She can't put her 100%.

Penny needed to use her Maiden powers, because she cannot lift Amity for long in her base. I imagine lifting Amity like that took everything she had, she probably would've been drained had she not used her Maiden powers.
 
I'm pretty sure none of the maidens know that she is actually a glass cannon, so of course they would fear someone who beat ozpin who they see as someone as strong as them
 
How would they know she beat Ozpin. I thought Ozpin’s secret was only revealed to team Rwby when they used the magic question genie. Heck Cinder beat current Ozpin, and she wouldn’t know about past Ozpin.
 
Her regen is the immortality. You were saying the maidens are scared of her because she beat prime Ozpin, nobody but team Rwby knows prime Ozpin is even a thing, only the people who saw the genie answer the question and Salem know about the past.
 
Also how does a lifting feat equate into an attack potency feat? That doesn't sit right with me.
 
LordGinSama said:
Also how does a lifting feat equate into an attack potency feat? That doesn't sit right with me.
Click to expand...
Because she moves it and acquires Kinetic Energy.

For every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction, Penny is using 7-C levels of energy to lift Amity. Therefore there is 7-C levels going back into her body, without 7-C durability her own body would crumble underneath.
 
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