Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

[First_Witch]

I didn't change shit, Dread, you just marked my vote incorrectly.

I think you misunderstood her Mori, shes saying you can edit Dreads Tally post if you think you have been tallied incorrectly by Dread, seeing as you are a admin with the power to do so.

 

[Agnaa]

I will like to make a report regarding @Roirr for well been extremely dismissive of everyone that does not hold his opinion and thinks he is the only one who has read marvel comics.
Making statements such has these.

expand...man are you sure you read the series? (This is his first reply to the thread)

If you don't want to accept it, at least offer a more logical explanation. (In reply to efficiente saying pulling two things with infinite mass apart does not grant immeasurable speed, which he thinks is not logical)

you haven't read the series, you are talking to talk, he is not a star he is the kingdom of knull we see it in the continuation of the scan also knull is the embodiment of the abyss, that is, it is his sensitivity. (In reply to me telling him that a space where stars are being born is not a void)

expand...Are you going to interpret the series I read differently and try to teach me? anyway go away (in reply to me telling him to read the scans and stop acting like only he can be right)

There was no such claim, you are the one who made an empty comment here without reading the whole series, dude. (In reply to me telling him stars are being born in the space, here is the scan for anyone who wants to check it out, it does say stars are being born)

Now this does not break any rule but he is being extremely dismissive of anyone who disagrees with him even though he is in the wrong here. Also I just checked the current messages and he is not an english speaker which may have been another cause.
It's not official warning worthy, but someone can please come and tell him to relax.

I don't think this sort of thing should be considered a rule violation.

What are we supposed to do if someone actually hasn't read something, and is making claims debunked by the source material?

If the answer is "Do the same thing, but it'll be okay because you're right", then we're just punishing this user for being wrong in our judgement, which seems weird. Is Deagon so knowledgeable about Silver Surfer that he can make that call?

 

[Deagonx]

I don't think this sort of thing should be considered a rule violation.

What are we supposed to do if someone actually hasn't read something, and is making claims debunked by the source material?

If the answer is "Do the same thing, but it'll be okay because you're right", then we're just punishing this user for being wrong in our judgement, which seems weird. Is Deagon so knowledgeable about Silver Surfer that he can make that call?

Let me put it this way, what purpose does it serve to accuse them -- correctly or not -- of not having read the source material?

If there's information in the source material that influences the outcome of the discussion, simply post it. Show, don't tell. Prove, don't accuse. No one should be forced to tolerate constant accusations of unfamiliarity with a comic during a discussion.

 

[Agnaa]

Let me put it this way, what purpose does it serve to accuse them -- correctly or not -- of not having read the source material?

If there's information in the source material that influences the outcome of the discussion, simply post it. Show, don't tell. Prove, don't accuse. No one should be forced to tolerate constant accusations of unfamiliarity with a comic during a discussion.

Yeah it'd be ideal to prove, but it seems fine to have claims in line with that. (And sometimes it wouldn't be possible to prove; if someone says that something happened which never actually occurred, you often can't actually post a scan of that, as the scene just doesn't exist).

How far are you willing to go with this? If someone says "Goku's wife is Bulma", and I say "You're wrong, that's Vegeta's wife", and provide a scan, should I get punished because saying "You're wrong" is unnecessary, and isn't an accusation someone should be forced to tolerate?

We could technically operate like that, never discounting the other person's opinion or knowledge, and merely posting evidence for things, but that's really difficult to uphold, and I think the psychological toll and risk of abuse through reporting people one doesn't like makes extending these sorts of rules so far a bad idea.

 

[CloverDragon03]

How far are you willing to go with this? If someone says "Goku's wife is Bulma", and I say "You're wrong, that's Vegeta's wife", and provide a scan, should I get punished because saying "You're wrong" is unnecessary, and isn't an accusation someone should be forced to tolerate?

There’s a stark difference between saying someone is wrong vs. claiming they never read the source material just because they disagree

 

[Agnaa]

There’s a stark difference between saying someone is wrong vs. claiming they never read the source material just because they disagree

I know, but if the argument is just that some accusations are okay because they're so low-impact, I think that "you haven't read this" would easily fly under that bar.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I know, but if the argument is just that some accusations are okay because they're so low-impact, I think that "you haven't read this" would easily fly under that bar.

“You’re wrong” has more to do with the argument itself

“You haven’t read this” is a personal accusation

 

[Deagonx]

How far are you willing to go with this? If someone says "Goku's wife is Bulma", and I say "You're wrong, that's Vegeta's wife", and provide a scan, should I get punished because saying "You're wrong" is unnecessary, and isn't an accusation someone should be forced to tolerate?

Like Clover points out, this isn't really an equal comparison because "you're wrong" is not an accusation that can't really be proven or is inflammatory, it's just a fact.

I would object, however, to saying "You've clearly never seen the show, it's Vegeta's wife." Now, in an example like this we're talking about a piece of info so basic that indeed only someone that doesn't know the material wouldn't know it, but it's still not helpful to the point (Bulma being Vegeta's wife can be easily proven and then it can be left at that.)

If it's a piece of information that is more ambiguous, accusing over and over (five times in this case, that I could see) of people who disagree with you not having read the source material is just entirely unnecessary.

 

[Agnaa]

“You’re wrong” has more to do with the argument itself

“You haven’t read this” is a personal accusation

Eh, I guess you could make that argument, but iirc Deagon didn't care about the "personal accusation"/"attack on the argument" distinction.

And I wonder about similar situations, that don't quite go into accusations, but imply them.

If that's what we're going with, I'd consider this the mildest thing worth a warning, and add it to the tracker.

Like Clover points out, this isn't really an equal comparison because "you're wrong" is not an accusation that can't really be proven or is inflammatory, it's just a fact.

That's not necessarily true, most things on this site are arguable and can have reasonable people disagreeing, coming down to different standards of evidence and the like.

But meh, guess this is resolved until the next time a report about being slightly rude comes up.

 

[Antvasima]

Prom could be excluded on a similar basis, which would be 10-6

Prom was not fired and can become a bureaucrat again if she finds sufficient free time to help out properly again. She has a vote if she wants to.

Besides, there are 5 options and permanent ban is endpoint; 2 years is compromise as it was decided, and you conceded on this when Mav mentioned it.

I haven't conceded. I still think that we used an overly harsh overkill option.

 

[Antvasima]

Yeah it'd be ideal to prove, but it seems fine to have claims in line with that. (And sometimes it wouldn't be possible to prove; if someone says that something happened which never actually occurred, you often can't actually post a scan of that, as the scene just doesn't exist).

How far are you willing to go with this? If someone says "Goku's wife is Bulma", and I say "You're wrong, that's Vegeta's wife", and provide a scan, should I get punished because saying "You're wrong" is unnecessary, and isn't an accusation someone should be forced to tolerate?

We could technically operate like that, never discounting the other person's opinion or knowledge, and merely posting evidence for things, but that's really difficult to uphold, and I think the psychological toll and risk of abuse through reporting people one doesn't like makes extending these sorts of rules so far a bad idea.

I agree with Agnaa here.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Prom was not fired and can become a bureaucrat again if she finds sufficient free time to help out properly again. She has a vote if she wants to.

Not how it works. Prom's vote would be counted if she became a Bureaucrat again (or had another such staff role), but she doesn't currently. You don't just spontaneously give people votes based on convenience

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Antvasima, just because someone retired manually, doesn't mean we should overlook their opinions and her status as former Bureaucrat and being the lead Bureaucrat of FC/OC wiki are still worth mentioning. She her vote doesn't need to be discounted. Though she never gave a full opinion and a ban for a month was just a minimum. She definitely agrees with punishment but also suggests there are others that should be punished alongside Weekly.

But at the same time, I prefer if we don't drag the discussion on for too many posts.

 

[Deagonx]

I don't believe it is a practical use of our time to continuing nickel and diming every way way chop up the vote in order to try and alter a settled matter.

 

[Antvasima]

Not how it works. Prom's vote would be counted if she became a Bureaucrat again (or had another such staff role), but she doesn't currently. You don't just spontaneously give people votes based on convenience

It isn't a sudden development. I have consistently been very clear about that Promestein still has a vote when she wants to. She and DontTalk probably have the best senses of judgement in our entire community. It would be ridiculous to not consider her sufficiently reliable in this regard.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't believe it is a practical use of our time to continuing nickel and diming every way way chop up the vote in order to try and alter a settled matter.

It wasn't settled though. One of our members decided to apply a two-years ban before we had finished, and in cases with no overwhelming staff consensus, we should try to find a compromise solution.

 

[Moritzva]

When we have to debate the technicalities of which staff or ex-staff votes are valid in a staff vote, regardless of the strength of their points, you know we have a problem with staff votes.

 

[KLOL506]

I don't believe it is a practical use of our time to continuing nickel and diming every way way chop up the vote in order to try and alter a settled matter.

I agree with this, we have much more pressing matters to handle at this time, like some of our staff members getting hacked out of the blue.

 

[Antvasima]

But it isn't a new issue that only staff members who were enlisted to evaluate these types of issues should have evaluation vote authority. Our standards are clear in this regard.

 

[KLOL506]

Ant, I'm going to strongly suggest that you drop this matter immediately and focus on the other tasks at hand.

 

[Lonkitt]

I agree with this, we have much more pressing matters to handle at this time, like some of our staff members getting hacked out of the blue.

I agree

 

[Crabwhale]

It wasn't settled though. One of our members decided to apply a two-years ban before we had finished, and in cases with no overwhelming staff consensus, we should try to find a compromise solution.

This is the compromise solution. A not-insubstantial number of us would prefer him gone permanently. My stance on that has not shifted. I doubt the others' have either.

Also, again, you and DDM both agreed in the January debacle and the subsequent fallout that Weekly had a final line before him. He has crossed that final line multiple times since. I categorically refuse to grace this discussion with any more time or brain power. No user who has ever been banned before has gotten off light after reaffirming the reasons for their first punishment. Weekly is no exception.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then. I still think that we are being too harsh, but I will drop the issue in lack of better options then.

 

[KLOL506]

Thank you for being reasonable.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

 

[Damage3245]

@Roirr; the appropriate response is not to spam emojis on the Rule Violations Thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Roirr doesn't seem to have done anything particularly bad.

 

[Roirr]

@Roirr; the appropriate response is not to spam emojis on the Rule Violations Thread.

I didn't have any intention of spamming, I just thought sometimes being silent is the best answer, anyway, I wish you good conversations that I won't write here yet.

 

[Agnaa]

Anyone else have thoughts on Strym's appeal?

I've already said my support for reducing his ban by a week or two.

 

[Deagonx]

Anyone else have thoughts on Strym's appeal?

I've already said my support for reducing his ban by a week or two.

I am against reducing it, personally.

 

[Antvasima]

I personally consider doxing to be a very serious offence.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Who was doxxing? I haven't seen a recent report related to something like that.

 

[Antvasima]

Wasn't Deagonx doxed, or do I mix up the cases here?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, probably a case mix up. That was someone else who doxxed him a long time ago and got permabanned for it. Styrm was banned for few months for being rude to ImmortalDread, but he has since apologized iirc. And am fine with a ban reduction based on the support gotten.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. My apologies for the mistake then.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Strym was banned for stating Dread "deserved" the harassment she's faced in our community since joining it, which did include the possibility of doxing, at least, so perhaps you were thinking of that.

 

[Deagonx]

Strym just had a history of rude/toxic conduct and had been warned several times prior. I'm against reducing the ban because it's pretty short as it is and it loses meaning if anyone can just have their ban reduced just for the asking.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, I think that what we were told in private was done to Dread seems far more serious than what Weekly did.

 

[TheRustyOne]

This new user, Fã1DeChaves.

Edited Akame and Esdeath's speed to MFTL+ without linking to any CRT. This also appeared to be their very first edits to the wiki.

I reverted the changes they made.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Dropped him a message.