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Remake of Jin Mori Dan HDE Removal (Part 1 of ???? HDE Removals)

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No. He may have qualitative superiority over them, but that can be achieved without increased spatial dimensionality. So HDE would not apply here.
By the way, I believe you are unintentionally using incorrect terminology. It would be preferable to avoid using the phrase “qualitative superiority” as it has a specific definition that relates to heightened spatial dimensionality, which is the intended meaning of the term.

If you're open to suggestions, perhaps you could say he possesses “superiority” but in a theological context.
 
It would be preferable to avoid using the phrase “qualitative superiority” as it has a specific definition that relates to heightened spatial dimensionality, which is the intended meaning of the term.
I don't think that's the case. It applies to all types of transcendence. I asked Ultima just to be sure and he confirmed.
 
I don't think that's the case. It applies to all types of transcendence. I asked Ultima just to be sure and he confirmed.
This makes less sense;

When we say “this scan does not have qualitative superiority”, we do imply the higher spatial dimensions. It is a gate term for low 1-C and above.
It is even to intentionally to exclude any theological superiority in the term.
 
We should probably consider Beyond Dimensional Existence as an option here.
 
I don't think so, theological dimensionality is still not enough for BDE in any means. If it could not meet HDE, it def not going to meet BDE.
 
I don't think that's the case. It applies to all types of transcendence. I asked Ultima just to be sure and he confirmed.

What do you think about beyond dimensional existence type 2.

It probably covers transcendence in the context you side with. A realm that transcends the dimensions it governs therefore isn’t bound by those dimensions at all but also doesn’t have an additional axis to qualify for HDE. Note: Our standards say that Beyond Dimensional Existence doesn’t necessarily mean all dimensions are transcended, but only the dimensions it has been shown to transcend. I personally disagree with that buh ehh… that’s what we currently accept.


I don't think so, theological dimensionality is still not enough for BDE in any means. If it could not meet HDE, it def not going to meet BDE.

Theological dimensionality in this case can be either or. It’s literally impossible for it to be neither. If a realm transcends reality, and further context show that it can even view a higher dimension of said reality (eg a space time continuum). Then it must be beyond those dimensions it transcends entirely (BDR) or bound by the dimensions it transcends but with an additional axis inaccessible to those within the lesser dimension axis attached to it. (HDE)
 
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Theological dimensionality in this case can be either or. It’s literally impossible for it to be neither. If a realm transcends reality, and further context show that it can even view a higher dimension of said reality (eg a space time continuum). Then it must be beyond those dimensions it transcends entirely (BDR) or bound by the dimensions it transcends but with an additional axis inaccessible to those within the lesser dimension axis attached to it. (HDE)
Deagonx has already responded to every point you mentioned, and from his perspective (as there is no conclusive evidence available), he suggests that all of this could potentially relate to a theological definition.

I'm still unable to comprehend how it qualifies as BDE; you must first attain HDE or fulfill the prerequisites of HDE at the very least to obtain BDE.

I won't repeat the same points again.
 
I'm still unable to comprehend how it qualifies as BDE; you must first attain HDE or fulfill the prerequisites of HDE at the very least to obtain BDE.

Why must HDE be obtained before BDE? They’re entirely different concepts. One does not come before the other.

Edit: I’m aware that popular theological concepts can be argued to be neither HDE nor BDE. But this is a fictional theological realm, and it’s kinda different from popular Buddhism. So we assess based on what the series gives us.
 
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"Beyond Dimensional Existence" surpasses "Higher Dimensional Existence", similar to how a scope ranging from low 1-C to high 1-B is smaller in comparison to a scope ranging from low 1-A to 1-A. This comparison helps in simplifying the explanation.

Unless you want more detailed one, but again, I disagree with both which means I agree with OP and Deagonx.
 
"Beyond Dimensional Existence" surpasses "Higher Dimensional Existence", similar to how a scope ranging from low 1-C to high 1-B is smaller in comparison to a scope ranging from low 1-A to 1-A. This comparison helps in simplifying the explanation.

Unless you want more detailed one, but again, I disagree with both which means I agree with OP and Deagonx.

Prove that there is a comparative relationship. Prove that “Beyond Dimensional Existence” > “Higher Dimensional Existence” based on what we currently accept.
 
Cuz I probably know what you’re talking about but if I’m correct that’s not how we treat BDE on site.
These characters aren't necessarily superior to spacetime on every level, but just within the scope which they are shown.

Yeah I know I disagree with it too
 
To be honest, I'm unsure about the distinction between the current HDE and BDE after new revisions. It seems challenging for me to perceive any dissimilarity between them. The HDE is believed to possess theological superiority, (as it supposed – before revisions) while the BDE is more related to mathematical and spatial aspects.

In any case, the person responsible for both can rectify the situation.
 
To be honest, I'm unsure about the distinction between the current HDE and BDE after new revisions. It seems challenging for me to perceive any dissimilarity between them. The HDE is believed to possess theological superiority, (as it supposed – before revisions) while the BDE is more related to mathematical and spatial aspects.

In any case, the person responsible for both can rectify the situation.

According to our standards. Beyond Dimensional Existence means an existence outside of dimensionality. Higher Dimensional Existence mean an existence greater than the dimensions that before it. There were no new revisions (afaik) that changed BDE

Beyond Dimensional Existence has 2 types.
- Type 1: Just existing outside of it without transcending it (mass, displacement, scalar quantities in general, a single point). Just means it has 0 axis attached to it.

- Type 2: It existed outside of dimensions by transcending it. And. somehow, according to our standards it doesn’t mean that all of dimensionality is transcended. Only the ones shown to be transcended. (I can bet Ultima disagrees with this too… I can go ask). In this thread I argue the Nirvana could be outside of the 4th dimension in a transcendental sense but can still see the 4th dimension, and interact with it.

- Higher Dimensional Existence: It exists with one more dimension attached to it. In this thread the rest of us are trying to prove Nirvana is a space that contains/observe the regular 4-D construct which implies that it’s 4-D in nature. I’m neutral on this cuz i haven’t read the series to decide myself.
 
You're completely missing my point. The word "generic" wasn't to suggest the realm is unimpressive some way. I am saying that there is a lack of evidence to suggest it has more spatial dimensions.

The realm Nirvana is a higher dimensional place that non-ascended people can't move through. This a restriction caused by their own limitations which is a product of their own physiology no?

None of that information means the higher realms have more spatial dimensions.

how does it not? Quite simply, non-ascended people are unable to move through that space, it's a direction they can't enter. In GoH they even go directly goes off of 4-D logic.

What does that have to do with having more spatial dimensions?
It's a higher dimensional place, that you can only achieve by accessing yourself. Doesn't that mean you must be able to move in said direction?

None of that information means the higher realms have more spatial dimensions.

It's a place a lower dimensional beings can't enter.

That doesn't mean you gain a 4D physiology. It could just be that you're obtaining an ethereal/conceptual physiology, which isn't HDE.
That seems unlikely considering Mori is also existing in the past and present simultaneously, and irrc time also has it's own axis. The way Mori moves isn't something lower-dimensional beings can do from what I recall, since he's moving in a temporal direction, and spatial direction that's incomprehensible to lower-dimensional beings. Why would those interactions not be considered 4D?

No. He may have qualitative superiority over them, but that can be achieved without increased spatial dimensionality. So HDE would not apply here.
Mori should have higher spatial dimensionality, considering he's moving through space that lower dimensional beings cannot. It's a higher dimensional plane that they physically cannot move through.
 
According to our standards. Beyond Dimensional Existence means an existence outside of dimensionality.
Higher Dimensional Existence mean an existence greater than the dimensions that before it. There were no new revisions (afaik) that changed BDE
I still don't see any difference – you quoted this:
These characters aren't necessarily superior to spacetime on every level, but just within the scope which they are shown.
It does not make any significant difference to HDE.

Altho, I still see @Xinsignia1 made a good point, so I will be neutral for now.
 
The talk about BDE is derailing
Anyway let me see if any other staff will come in else I can start applying the revisions later
 
You need to stop telling me things without saying why 😐
The concept of transcending reality – fiction shares striking similarities with theological definitions, with the key distinction being its potential for limitless expansion across various levels or tiers.
 
The concept of transcending reality – fiction shares striking similarities with theological definitions, with the key distinction being its potential for limitless expansion across various levels or tiers.

Yeah but at the end of the day, their existence isn’t bound by the dimensions which the fiction is based on. Hence BDE type 2 rather than HDE.
 
I thought I got ignored – perhaps you were busy, I suppose
Yeah but at the end of the day, their existence isn’t bound by the dimensions which the fiction is based on. Hence BDE type 2 rather than HDE.
Won't that go against the note you attached? Because if they are truly unbounded by dimensions, the note is simply a contradiction or moreover misleading. I still see HDE from the opposition post earlier.
 
how does it not? Quite simply, non-ascended people are unable to move through that space, it's a direction they can't enter. In GoH they even go directly goes off of 4-D logic.
I may or may not reply to your large post since I find it not necessary due to the misinformations in it such as Mori existing across all of time when all he did is take the tablets and projects his avatars into them.
But since this is extremely misleading, I should address it. The scan happened 500 chapters before nirvana and in no way is it talking about nirvana going off 4D logic and that is extremely dishonest. It was explaining how the levels work, the floors exists inside the owner same way 3D exists inside 4D. Nothing even close to Nirvana.

Edit: talks about BDE is derailing because Mori is not getting BDE and nothing remotely implied so on the series
 
Can you prove that it happened 500 chapters before? Mind citing your sources, since none really will buy this type of comment without any sources. If you are going to call him out, then do it at least properly and convince-able.

If you don't mind.
 
Can you prove that it happened 500 chapters before? Mind citing your sources, since none really will buy this type of comment without any sources. If you are going to call him out, then do it at least properly and convince-able.

If you don't mind.
That scan was from the skyscraper saga where Mori needs to conquer floors and defeat owners, and the context being that the skyscraper uses 4D logic i.e. the floors exists inside the owner and that was around chapter 190 - 215.
Nirvana happened in 570+
So yes they are different context and it's dishonest that he would use it to try and justify nirvana and say nirvana is based on that logic
To put it bluntly, that isn't for you to decide
It is actually, I made the thread and it is not discussing my OP, so yes it is derailing.
Also not one proof of BDE was brought forth or even exist in the series to begin with.
 
That scan was from the skyscraper saga where Mori needs to conquer floors and defeat owners, and the context being that the skyscraper uses 4D logic i.e. the floors exists inside the owner and that was around chapter 190 - 215.
Nirvana happened in 570+
Thank you.
So yes they are different context and it's dishonest that he would use it to try and justify nirvana and say nirvana is based on that logic
I was not suspecting you to lie, Pain. You took my request in wrong way, I simply want to you to cite sources, since in case, he denies this, the evidence is here, for visitors, outsiders and those who don't know verse much to check this.

I hope you understood my point.
It is actually, I made the thread and it is not discussing my OP, so yes it is derailing.
Also not one proof of BDE was brought forth or even exist in the series to begin with.
Sometimes, threads can turn out into a different topic, purpose, upgrade, downgrade or comprise. There is no hard rule for this.
 
I may or may not reply to your large post since I find it not necessary due to the misinformations in it such as Mori existing across all of time when all he did is take the tablets and projects his avatars into them.
Misinformation how? I said he existed in the past and present simultaneously. The Tablets are part of his powerset, no idea why you're trying to exclude them from it.

But since this is extremely misleading, I should address it. The scan happened 500 chapters before nirvana and in no way is it talking about nirvana going off 4D logic and that is extremely dishonest. It was explaining how the levels work, the floors exists inside the owner same way 3D exists inside 4D. Nothing even close to Nirvana.
Ayo, I never said nirvana went off of 4D logic. I said " they" as in author is referencing a mathematic dimensions, and it wasn't 500 chapters ago.
 
It is actually, I made the thread and it is not discussing my OP, so yes it is derailing.
Also not one proof of BDE was brought forth or even exist in the series to begin with.
The staff decide whether or not it’s to be considered derailing and act accordingly. They’re also the ones that decide whether or not this would be valid.
 
Why would the statement being old have some matter? If some random fans can remember why the author wouldnt
 
I thought I got ignored – perhaps you were busy, I suppose

Won't that go against the note you attached? Because if they are truly unbounded by dimensions, the note is simply a contradiction or moreover misleading. I still see HDE from the opposition post earlier.

I don’t disagree with opposition of this thread, I’m just saying that those who disagree with the opposition should consider BDE as an alternative depending on their reasoning for disagreeing. I actually agree with the opposition now that I’ve seen his arguments.

I don’t agree with the note, I added the note because that’s our current standard.

Btw yeah I was busy
 
Thank you.

I was not suspecting you to lie, Pain.
?
You took my request in wrong way, I simply want to you to cite sources, since in case, he denies this, the evidence is here, for visitors, outsiders and those who don't know verse much to check this.
Well I provided the chapter numbers
I hope you understood my point.

Sometimes, threads can turn out into a different topic, purpose, upgrade, downgrade or comprise. There is no hard rule for this.
Yes, if the thread is done or the points changes and the OP agrees, if anyone wants BDE, they should make a thread for it and not clog this up
The staff decide whether or not it’s to be considered derailing and act accordingly. They’re also the ones that decide whether or not this would be valid.
Again, BDE is derailing and is not relevant to my points and neither argues for it or against it and I have every right to say that here
Why would the statement being old have some matter? If some random fans can remember why the author wouldnt
Cause it is irrelevant and was an explanation on how owners contains their floors and not an explanation of nirvana
Misinformation how? I said he existed in the past and present simultaneously. The Tablets are part of his powerset, no idea why you're trying to exclude them from it.
His avatars exists there
Now read what I am about to say again since this is the 4th time and I am getting frustrated already
To be HDE via existing in multiple places
1. You have to be the one existing and not some sort of avatar or projection
2. You need to exist in every point in time and space.

None of which Mori qualifes for, also the tablet are not his powerset, he did. It create them, they exist in Nirvana already and as a resident he gets to use them.
Ayo, I never said nirvana went off of 4D logic. I said " they" as in author is referencing a mathematic dimensions, and it wasn't 500 chapters ago.
You were literally talking about nirvana in that context and linked that scan.
Anyway, since you agree that the scan is irrelevant to nirvana, I will drop it
 
(if you don't agree with it, at least don't do imperfect arguments to prove a point within this note, smh)
 
Yes, if the thread is done or the points changes and the OP agrees, if anyone wants BDE, they should make a thread for it and not clog this up
Not necessary, again. You can report anytime the individuals to RvR if you feel yourself that this is report worthy.
But my point stands; there are no hard rules for this.
 
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