Bill Cipher removal (or change) of 12-D HDE??? (Gravity Falls)

[Georredannea15]

I think it's ridiculous to deny the fact that he would eventually gain HDE from his Dimensional Manipulation. It's very concrete that this will happen. So while I agree with changing it to reflect that it's not something he has to start with, I completely disagree with removing it outright

For example, in a battle, they will not ask you when in the future you will have this extra axis. In a battle, you will fight with what you have at that moment. And Bill was never shown to have a 12-dimensional geometric axes in the series. That's why I wrote "non-combat use" in option 2.

Also dimensional manipulation and don't give you HDE. As far as I remember, all of these were gone over in the last HDE revision. Even statements like "extra-dimensional beings" no longer give you HDE.

 

[CloverDragon03]

For example, in a battle, they will not ask you when in the future you will have this extra axis.

I know, hence why I'm saying he wouldn't start that way in a VS match, but it'd also be wrong to just ignore the fact that he can do this

In a battle, you will fight with what you have at that moment. And Bill was never shown to have a 12-dimensional geometric axes in the series. That's why I wrote "non-combat use" in option 2.

Then I guess Option 2 makes more sense to me...?

Also dimensional manipulation and don't give you HDE.

Going by what's accepted, Bill's liberation of dimensions (like with the 2nd dimension) enabled him to ascend to a higher dimension. I'm just going by what I know from the profile given that I wasn't really in the threads where this stuff was first handled

Even statements like "extra-dimensional beings" no longer give you HDE.

This has no relevance to my argument...

 

[Georredannea15]

Alr then, instead of giving a long answer to all of them... how about we just keep going? I am writing you for option 2. Is this good for you, right? (Btw is there anything you would like to add?)

This has no relevance to my argument...

What I wanted to emphasize was that many things have changed in very different ways for HDE, but whatever.

 

[CloverDragon03]

You can put me down for option 2 yeah, that seems in line with what I'm thinking

 

[Georredannea15]

Alr then

 

[Deidalius]

I agree with OP

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

It just should be more explicitly noted that it isn’t his current state but something he is capable of becoming (which is why it is under Dimensional Manipulation) if you want. If someone can activate Omnipresence after 5 seconds after the fight, then you don’t remove it from the profile saying “well yea omnipresence is a current state the character exists in” but just list in the profile “Omnipresence (Can become omnipresent after 5 seconds of the battle)” or something similar to that. Which is why completely removing it makes absolutely zero sense.

To expand more, even with your example, if someone is going to become a champion but the evidence is sufficient to prove it’s true, you can list him as champion in the future, which would mean he can’t currently use his position as champion for whatever (idk), but he will be able to in the future.

 

[Georredannea15]

It just should be more explicitly noted that it isn’t his current state but something he is capable of becoming (which is why it is under Dimensional Manipulation) if you want. If someone can activate Omnipresence after 5 seconds after the fight, then you don’t remove it from the profile saying “well yea omnipresence is a current state the character exists in” but just list in the profile “Omnipresence (Can become omnipresent after 5 seconds of the battle)” or something similar to that. Which is why completely removing it makes absolutely zero sense.

To expand more, even with your example, if someone is going to become a champion but the evidence is sufficient to prove it’s true, you can list him as champion in the future, which would mean he can’t currently use his position as champion for whatever (idk), but he will be able to in the future.

That's why option 2 is there.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

That's why option 2 is there.

Saying that it is non-combat applicable looks like he can’t use it for battle purposes at all. He can use it, but he will not as he does not do in character. However if he is Bloodlusted/starts off after “liberation”, it is pretty much usable.

 

[Georredannea15]

Saying that it is non-combat applicable looks like he can’t use it for battle purposes at all. He can use it, but he will not as he does not do in character. However if he is Bloodlusted/starts off after “liberation”, it is pretty much usable.

For example, in a battle, they will not ask you when in the future you will have this extra axis. In a battle, you will fight with what you have at that moment. And Bill was never shown to have a 12-dimensional geometric axes in the series. That's why I wrote "non-combat use" in option 2.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Pretty sure whoever makes VS match-up can make it start after Bill liberates everything.
And again, he can use it in fight, he just won’t use it.

 

[Georredannea15]

Pretty sure whoever makes VS match-up can make it start after Bill liberates everything.
And again, he can use it in fight, he just won’t use it.

If he can't use it, there is nothing to assume that he can use it in a battle. That's simple, that's why option 2 is there.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

If he can't use it, there is nothing to assume that he can use it in a battle. That's simple, that's why option 2 is there.

He will literally be in the state of HDE once he “liberates” the dimension. He can be in the state of HDE by doing liberation in the middle of it. You need to differ between “can” and “will in-character”.

 

[Georredannea15]

He will literally be in the state of HDE once he “liberates” the dimension. He can be in the state of HDE by doing liberation in the middle of it. You need to differ between “can” and “will in-character”.

Unless he shows us that in the series, why should we assume that for the current situation he has?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Unless he shows me that in the series, why should I assume that for the current situation he has?

This is ridiculous. If he never showed resisting Biological Manipulation, should we remove it despite him being pure energy? Remove Matter Manipulation because he never showed it but only claimed?
Here’s a thing: if someone has not directly shown something in the series, it does not mean you can ignore statements and logical outcomes from them. In the events of Gravity Falls he is still 3D, but he would be higher in dimensionality if his plan in liberating succeeded. So he can use it after liberating, the difference is that he won’t due to OOC bs. You are just denying that.
Just like if someone, hypothetically, is stated to become omnipresent once they blink five times in a row, would we say it is non-combat applicable, or don’t add Omnipresence to the profile at all? No, because he can use it, he will become omnipresent after those conditions and he can use it to help himself in battle, the only real question is whether he will use it in-character in a fight or not.

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

If he can't use it, there is nothing to assume that he can use it in a battle. That's simple, that's why option 2 is there.

WDYM he can’t use its? Isn’t he get stopped because gravity fall force field?

 

[Woomica]

IM GOING TO BECOME REINA

@Reiner04 bro wants to be you

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Option 2 makes sense but seeing how it is unclear or vague how fast he can do it or might need preparation just like what he did to ascend to 3D i agree that it should be not combat applicable. and we don't really know how fast weirdmaggeon works it was relatively quick for the entirety of Gravity falls but that may not apply fast enough for him to liberate a dimension and move higher.


disagree with removal since he did show capable of raising himself into a higher axis and even gaining an extra axis in his form to become 3D from 2D

 

[Georredannea15]

This is ridiculous. If he never showed resisting Biological Manipulation, should we remove it despite him being pure energy? Remove Matter Manipulation because he never showed it but only claimed?
Here’s a thing: if someone has not directly shown something in the series, it does not mean you can ignore statements and logical outcomes from them. In the events of Gravity Falls he is still 3D, but he would be higher in dimensionality if his plan in liberating succeeded. So he can use it after liberating, the difference is that he won’t due to OOC bs. You are just denying that.
Just like if someone, hypothetically, is stated to become omnipresent once they blink five times in a row, would we say it is non-combat applicable, or don’t add Omnipresence to the profile at all? No, because he can use it, he will become omnipresent after those conditions and he can use it to help himself in battle, the only real question is whether he will use it in-character in a fight or not.

I don't want to go on too much, I just want to say that HDE basically doesn't work like other haxes in this respect. Anyway, agree to disagree. Let's wait for the staff before we go in circles any further.

Option 2 makes sense but seeing how it is unclear or vague how fast he can do it or might need preparation just like what he did to ascend to 3D i agree that it should be not combat applicable. and we don't really know how fast weirdmaggeon works it was relatively quick for the entirety of Gravity falls but that may not apply fast enough for him to liberate a dimension and move higher.


disagree with removal since he did show capable of raising himself into a higher axis and even gaining an extra axis in his form to become 3D from 2D

Alr

 

[IDK3465]

Actually, changing vote to option 2, not that it would matter, just wanted to clarify.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

I agree with option 1

 

[Georredannea15]

All right, I think it's over. Can someone do me a favor and remove 12-D HDE from the profile because I forgot my fandom account

 

[Georredannea15]

Can someone close this?