Jin Mori Dan HDE Removal (Part 1 of ???? HDE Removals)

[PrinceofPein]

Bruh, you are literally dropping to the "it must be drawn as a hyper dimensional tesseract to qualify for HDE" type argument. You might as well say all of marvel and DC is unironically 2D on paper

This also goes for you

Read to comprehension please. So in that request, read my post again, this time properly.

That aside, all of marvel and DC are actually 2D on paper to me anyway.

 

[Ikelaggan]

This also goes for you

That aside, all of marvel and DC are actually 2D on paper to me anyway.

Bruh, really unironically starting beef with every verse that doesn't have characters drawn like a tesseract. Smh

 

[Yeolban]

What is blud waffling about

 

[PrinceofPein]

Bruh, really unironically starting beef with every verse that doesn't have characters drawn like a tesseract. Smh

Since you do not seem to understand it, let me break it down for you since I am free and a good person

Seeing reality as fiction doesn't mean that your body has an additional dimensional axis. Beings that look in reality as fiction are frequently portrayed as regular 3-dimensional beings (i.e. they often have a human shape), just that they are "more real".

that is the quote my entire post refers to

Also for those that think that I am trying to make the standard strict.

This is to point out that the standards are currently strict

Here, based on this statement if a being is drawn to be just 3D, and even though they are said to be higher D in one form or another as long as it is not mathematically or their body does not have an extra physical axis, they will not qualify.

This is me explaining that the person who made the page said R>F, ontology and size does not matter since they are still portrayed/drawn as 3D regardless just that they are more real/powerful, and to qualify for HDE you need to be portrayed/drawn or stated to have an extra physical axis.

Which is why I am not worried about the whole disagreements since unless the standards changes,

Mori does not qualify currently since he was portrayed as a regular 3-D entity without another axis but just that he has a greater ontology difference, regardless of him stated to ascend to a higher plane.

This is me saying that based on the standards, Mori does not qualify for HDE since he was said or portrayed to be Higher Dimensioned by virtue of Transcendence and not cause is body gained an extra axis.

How you and your bestie read that to mean that I am saying unless someone is drawn as a 4D and above being in a comic or TV, they are not HDE baffles me.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Disagree fra

 

[deonment]

Which is why I am not worried about the whole disagreements since unless the standards changes, Mori does not qualify currently since he was portrayed as a regular 3-D entity without another axis but just that he has a greater ontology difference, regardless of him stated to ascend to a higher plane.

Mori in this key is the entirety of reality including its timeline, what we see is either a representation or an avatar

 

[PrinceofPein]

Mori in this key is the entirety of reality including its timeline, what we see is either a representation or an avatar

Proof of this?

 

[Ikelaggan]

Since you do not seem to understand it, let me creak it down for you since I am free and a good person

that is the quote my entire post refers to

Expect R>F isn't universally the same across every board like that. You got "Garfield gets real" or "Garfield pet force" where the R>F is just a inaccessible universe gap and not a higher dimensional gap so being portrayed as 3D is irrelevant since it's a case by case basis.

 

[Shmooply]

Disagree for reasons others have brought up.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Read to comprehension please. So in that request, read my post again, this time properly.

This also goes for you

Since you do not seem to understand it, let me creak it down for you since I am free and a good person

Yo Pain, quit the condescending attitude or it’s off to the RVT with you

 

[PrinceofPein]

Yo Pain, quit the condescending attitude or it’s off to the RVT with you

There is nothing superior in my tone of speaking to them. Telling someone who took my post out of context to read it properly is not condescending, I am the one who should be pissed by that, but I even did a long post explaining it, how is that condescending?
And this is ignoring the obvious strawmann and the mocking tone they have in their post.

 

[Ikelaggan]

There is nothing superior in my tone of speaking to them. Telling someone who took my post out of context to read it properly is not condescending, I am the one who should be pissed by that, but I even did a long post explaining it, how is that condescending?

"Since you do not seem to understand it, let me creak it down for you since I am free and a good person"
Literally putting your self on a "I'm a good person" pedestal. I don't why being a free/good person is relevant to making your point sound.

And this is ignoring the obvious strawmann and the mocking tone they have in their post.

It's not really strawmaning if your main premise for mori not having HDE is that he's not portrayed/drawn as a HD tesseract and his statements don't take priority over this. Which is fair to call it nonsensical at best.

 

[PrinceofPein]

"Since you do not seem to understand it, let me creak it down for you since I am free and a good person"
Literally putting your self on a "I'm a good person" pedestal. I don't why being a free/good person is relevant to making your point sound.

I mean it literally, since if I am not a good person or if I am not free, I would not have explained my post.

It's not really strawmaning if your main premise for mori not having HDE is that he's not portrayed/drawn as a HD tesseract and his statements don't take priority over this. Which is fair to call it nonsensical at best.

I broke it down for you and you still strawmann? Like wtaf. Again, Read my posts again and this time properly.

 

[Shmooply]

Getting a bit derail-y now. Let's focus on the actual topic, and whoever wants to can report Pain if this keeps up instead of talking about it here.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

but Mori doesn't see it as fiction.
The thing literally said Mori has a choice to either live back in the world again or help maintain it by being a God.
We already have scans mentioning higher dimension now correlate it with this recent feat it is not farfetched to assume that this meant he has now become a being with an extra axis with the qualitative superiority requirements thus making him higher dimensional or 4D spatial at least.

heck we are even shown that he reached this realm after he accidentally cracked something in space further solidifying that this is closely about dimensional barrier and higher dimension and not some reality>Fiction transcendence difference like what you're trying to argue

Although R>F and higher dimension can be equated that doesn't mean portraying something as R>F while explaining it as Dimensional qualitative superiority doesn't mean you suddenly discredit the statements leading it into being higher dimension and not higher hierarchy similar to composite hierarchy

 

[PrinceofPein]

but Mori doesn't see it as fiction.
The thing literally said Mori has a choice to either live back in the world again or help maintain it by being a God.
We already have scans mentioning higher dimension now correlate it with this recent feat it is not farfetched to assume that this meant he has now become a being with an extra axis with the qualitative superiority requirements thus making him higher dimensional or 4D spatial at least.

heck we are even shown that he reached this realm after he accidentally cracked something in space further solidifying that this is closely about dimensional barrier and higher dimension and not some reality>Fiction transcendence difference like what you're trying to argue

Although R>F and higher dimension can be equated that doesn't mean portraying something as R>F while explaining it as Dimensional qualitative superiority doesn't mean you suddenly discredit the statements leading it into being higher dimension and not higher hierarchy similar to composite hierarchy

Now if I tell you to read my posts properly I will probably be told that I am condescending, so I will say
Tag where I said Mori has HDE because of R>F.

My entire point is that being called Higher Dimensioned without further contexts that makes it precisely in mathematical sense is not enough for HDE, which is what my entire arguments have been.

Literally no arguments have been made against my points aside mental gymnastics

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

And to give more information and elaborate R>F transcendence can have a higher dimension in their composite hierarchy as long as those are expanded upon and it is not a simple and traditional R>F transcendence. you as someone who has expertise in Tier 1 should be aware of this and doesn't need to be elaborated upon you

My entire point is that being called Higher Dimensioned without further contexts that makes it precisely in mathematical sense is not enough for HDE, which is what my entire arguments have been.

Since you do not seem to understand it, let me break it down for you since I am free and a good person

that is the quote my entire post refers to

This is to point out that the standards are currently strict

This is me explaining that the person who made the page said R>F, ontology and size does not matter since they are still portrayed/drawn as 3D regardless just that they are more real/powerful, and to qualify for HDE you need to be portrayed/drawn or stated to have an extra physical axis.

This is me saying that based on the standards, Mori does not qualify for HDE since he was said or portrayed to be Higher Dimensioned by virtue of Transcendence and not cause is body gained an extra axis.

The way you bring up The R>F conversation in the thread about the HDE addition implies that not to mention other things you brought up that are somewhat negligible to discuss in this thread if the latest response is exactly as you said.
and I elaborated on how they can be mathematical now due to the circumstances of the stories which you seem to ignore. This kind of outlook is far too narrow instead of trying to understand the story you merely handwave statements and ignore some context

I swear understanding what you're trying to say has always been an issue I have to go through with you and it is just frustrating trying to comprehend you this isn't an isolated case as others in this thread have clearly shown similar issues with you.

I'll Step off this thread as this has been so detrimental but I'll flatly disagree and I implore people to evaluate the case properly with the context of the story and not of vswiki terminology

 

[PrinceofPein]

And to give more information and elaborate R>F transcendence can have a higher dimension in their composite hierarchy as long as those are expanded upon and it is not a simple and traditional R>F transcendence. you as someone who has expertise in Tier 1 should be aware of this and doesn't need to be elaborated upon you

Are you referring to me? cause it is certainly not me who thinks so, my thread is literally about how R>F should also qualify for HDE, as someone with extra axis should be able to see lower D's as fiction. Hence, R>F, size and ontology can be equated to Mathematical HDE, also this is irrelevant and not my point in this thread.

The way you bring up The R>F conversation in the thread about the HDE addition implies that not to mention other things you brought up that are somewhat negligible to discuss in this thread if the latest response is exactly as you said.

You should read to context in all honesty, let me quote it for you "This is me explaining that the person who made the page said R>F, ontology and size does not matter" this was the part I mentioned "R>F" which was in relation to explaining that R>F and some other things do not qualify for HDE, but somehow you twist that in all dishonesty to mean that I am implying Mori form of HDE is from R>F. Yes I consider it dishonesty as I did not even mention Mori in that texts at all.

and I elaborated on how they can be mathematical now due to the circumstances of the stories which you seem to ignore. This kind of outlook is far too narrow instead of trying to understand the story you merely handwave statements and ignore some context

The context being,

• Mori stays in a place where space and time overlaps
• Mori lost his current body and gained one that allows him to ascend
• He left the World through a crack in space
• He can use tablets that contains points in time to project his avatar into creation

Yes none of these alone or together means gaining an extra axis, so I consider claiming it to be such as mental gymnastics. Or did I miss anything since DT said just referred to as Higher dimensioned without context of it being in the mathematical sense does not mean you can get HDE, even if you are HDE in your own sense or by other virtue, but the page is strictly in mathematical sense.

I swear understanding what you're trying to say has always been an issue I have to go through with you and it is just frustrating trying to comprehend you this isn't an isolated case as others in this thread have clearly shown similar issues with you.

This is a You problem and not my own problem, as you clearly do not read them properly, a very recent example is claiming that I said Mori jin is HDE based on R>F, when I never even implied such, so where did you see that?

I'll Step off this thread as this has been so detrimental but I'll flatly disagree and I implore people to evaluate the case properly with the context of the story and not of vswiki terminology

They should not use vs wiki terminology/standard to evaluate a vs wiki page? You folks never cease to amuse me. I can fairly say that I do not understand some of you too.

 

[Yeolban]

without context of it being in the mathematical sense does not mean you can get HDE, even if you are HDE in your own sense or by other virtue, but the page is strictly in mathematical sense.

I'm no expert here, but I'm pretty sure that 3 Dimensions of Space of 1 of Time is also... you know... mathematical. It is part of Albert Einstein's Theory of Relativity.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Anyway since DT clarified further in the HDE thread, time to call in staffs to evaluate this after the revision finishes

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

They should not use vs wiki terminology/standard to evaluate a vs wiki page? You folks never cease to amuse me. I can fairly say that I do not understand some of you too.

That's not what i meant when i said not to use wiki terminology.
Cause a fiction explaining something more than what is regular definition of whats in the wiki is a thing if you keep being so narrow that you only sees everything as 1:1 as wiki explained it rather than as the fiction that you're indexing then you're not really being accurate nor precise in indexing as you're disregarding other context and information added by the verse that is no longer just mere standard.

We may never understand each other but I'm firm with the logic and principle with what is accurate and precise for the profile to give respect on how the fiction tries to convey.

And lastly im not the one who made a crt based on a ongoing revision of another thing. You made this CRT without properly concluding simply because a single bureaucrat made an assertion that hasn't been fleshed out or discussed by other staff whom we also acknowledge as knowledgable on the field so from the get go this CRT is not done with good faith

 

[Xinsignia1]

Yes none of these alone or together means gaining an extra axis, so I consider claiming it to be such as mental gymnastics. Or did I miss anything since DT said just referred to as Higher dimensioned without context of it being in the mathematical sense does not mean you can get HDE, even if you are HDE in your own sense or by other virtue, but the page is strictly in mathematical sense.

I'm not a expert on dimensions, but I do have some basic understanding, and if I do have some misconceptions, feel free to address it. Shouldn't Mori fulfill the 4D requirement, considering he existed at 3 separate places in simultaneously? The past, present and future once he achieved Nirvana. He wasn't just time traveling, it was actual omnipresence since he simultaneously existed at different points in time, as well as three difference spaces which in why what happened in chapter 508 and 568 made everyone realize that entire instance we witnessed was a paradox.

When Mori touched the tablet, he was in 3 places at once, 2 of them were separate points in time, and one was in Nirvana.

In chapter 508, we saw an obscure figure, that Bonghram reacted to, while Mori in real time was training with Ogre (way before he even arrived to fight Mubong the second time) We later learned that obscure figure Bonghram saw, was actually ascended Mori from nirvana in chapter 568 (60 chapters later)

So Mori simultaneously existed in:

1)The present with Ahan and baby Taejin,

2)The past when he projected his avatar and affected it (a paradox)

3) In a different dimension, aka Nirvana with Xuanzang

All three of the scans above happened simultaneously.

So we have Mori existing in 3 different places at once, with two of them being separated points in time, meaning he can exist simultaneously along that axis. 3D beings don't simultaneously exist at various points in time considering they're limited to 3 dimensions, so when it comes to time, they they just exist in the here and now since they can only experience it sequentially. Mori doesn't have that limitation considering he can simultaneously exist along that axis, if that's the case that shouldn't that satisfy the requirement? unless I missed something.

 

[Tarang123]

There is nothing superior in my tone of speaking to them. Telling someone who took my post out of context to read it properly is not condescending, I am the one who should be pissed by that, but I even did a long post explaining it, how is that condescending?
And this is ignoring the obvious strawmann and the mocking tone they have in their post.

The way you're phrasing it is definitely condescending. Like, literally anyone who looks at your comment can see that

 

[PrinceofPein]

That's not what i meant when i said not to use wiki terminology.
Cause a fiction explaining something more than what is regular definition of whats in the wiki is a thing if you keep being so narrow that you only sees everything as 1:1 as wiki explained it rather than as the fiction that you're indexing then you're not really being accurate nor precise in indexing as you're disregarding other context and information added by the verse that is no longer just mere standard.

I am not disregarding it though, it just does not qualify, it is as simple as that

We may never understand each other but I'm firm with the logic and principle with what is accurate and precise for the profile to give respect on how the fiction tries to convey.

Again, we do not write for the authors and none of your scans proves that Mori has an extra axis

And lastly im not the one who made a crt based on a ongoing revision of another thing. You made this CRT without properly concluding simply because a single bureaucrat made an assertion that hasn't been fleshed out or discussed by other staff whom we also acknowledge as knowledgable on the field so from the get go this CRT is not done with good faith

That person made the page, I made the CRT based on the misunderstanding that we should be able to equate other form of HDE to mathematical dimensions and he simply pointed out how it cannot be applicable, so practically my argument for R>F and Transcendence HDE is out of the window, which is why I am arguing for size now.

I'm not a expert on dimensions, but I do have some basic understanding, and if I do have some misconceptions, feel free to address it. Shouldn't Mori fulfill the 4D requirement, considering he existed at 3 separate places in simultaneously? The past, present and future once he achieved Nirvana. He wasn't just time traveling, it was actual omnipresence since he simultaneously existed at different points in time, as well as three difference spaces which in why what happened in chapter 508 and 568 made everyone realize that entire instance we witnessed was a paradox.

When Mori touched the tablet, he was in 3 places at once, 2 of them were separate points in time, and one was in Nirvana.

In chapter 508, we saw an obscure figure, that Bonghram reacted to, while Mori in real time was training with Ogre (way before he even arrived to fight Mubong the second time) We later learned that obscure figure Bonghram saw, was actually ascended Mori from nirvana in chapter 568 (60 chapters later)

So Mori simultaneously existed in:

1)The present with Ahan and baby Taejin,

2)The past when he projected his avatar and affected it (a paradox)

3) In a different dimension, aka Nirvana with Xuanzang

All three of the scans above happened simultaneously.

So we have Mori existing in 3 different places at once, with two of them being separated points in time, meaning he can exist simultaneously along that axis. 3D beings don't simultaneously exist at various points in time considering they're limited to 3 dimensions, so when it comes to time, they they just exist in the here and now since they can only experience it sequentially. Mori doesn't have that limitation considering he can simultaneously exist along that axis, if that's the case that shouldn't that satisfy the requirement? unless I missed something.

Yes you have some misconception and missed something, which is the fact that Mori used avatars, not that he himself is existing at all those places at once, he used the tablets to project his avatar/clone.
I should add though that yes something similar to this is enough for someone to become 4D but it is way more complicated than this.

The way you're phrasing it is definitely condescending. Like, literally anyone who looks at your comment can see that

I really do not see how telling someone to read my post properly is condescending, I mean it literally.

 

[Robo432343]

For Mori to fulfil this requirement you just laid out, he will have to exists in every moment in time and be at every point in space at the same time.

"Type 4; Cannot be seen in any version of the future, broke out of the karmic cycle of fate and causality. Mori exists beyond time and can appear anywhere in the timeline"

"Omnipresent (Attaining a state of Nirvana allows Mori to exist at any point of time within the universe, even being able to save Ahan in the past when her situation was most dire"

Did you not see this???

 

[PrinceofPein]

"Type 4; Cannot be seen in any version of the future, broke out of the karmic cycle of fate and causality. Mori exists beyond time and can appear anywhere in the timeline"

"Omnipresent (Attaining a state of Nirvana allows Mori to exist at any point of time within the universe, even being able to save Ahan in the past when her situation was most dire"

Did you not see this???

What I just laid out is clearly different from just omnipresent ability. He can move to any point in time =/= he exists at every point in time and every point in space at the same time

 

[Larssx]

"Type 4; Cannot be seen in any version of the future, broke out of the karmic cycle of fate and causality. Mori exists beyond time and can appear anywhere in the timeline"

"Omnipresent (Attaining a state of Nirvana allows Mori to exist at any point of time within the universe, even being able to save Ahan in the past when her situation was most dire"

Did you not see this???

Tf Why this look like I said that?

 

[Robo432343]

What I just laid out is clearly different from just omnipresent ability. He can move to any point in time =/= he exists at every point in time and every point in space at the same time

You just said that the requirements is that, "he will have to exists in every moment in time" and be in every point in space and time

his profile literally has all that

 

[PrinceofPein]

You just said that the requirements is that, "he will have to exists in every moment in time" and be in every point in space and time

his profile literally has all that

Well since you and many more will misunderstand that, let me just remove the post.
My post is referring to someone who is so large that they are everywhere, like lying all across a 4D structure. it is not omnipresent, and in fact Mori does not qualify for omnipresence, if he still needs to actively send his avatars to the past

 

[Yeolban]

none of your scans proves that Mori has an extra axis

Okay. Let me be frank. Yes, he does have an extra axis, just not an Euclidian one.

The extra axis he has is from the Minkowski Space, which considers the 4th axis as "time". Minkowski Space has been used to build Albert Einstein's Theory of Relativity, so it is very much mathematical.

Trying to limit HDE to only Euclidian Spaces is irrational.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Okay. Let me be frank. Yes, he does have an extra axis, just not an Euclidian one.

The extra axis he has is from the Minkowski Space, which considers the 4th axis as "time". Minkowski Space has been used to build Albert Einstein's Theory of Relativity, so it is very much mathematical.

Trying to limit HDE to only Euclidian Spaces is irrational.

sigh, I guess I am 4D too

 

[Yeolban]

sigh, I guess I am 4D too

Here. It's stated clearly here; The place Mori resides in.

Mori: "이건?"
Xuanzang: "이곳은 시공간이 중첩된 지점"

Mori: "This is?"
Xuanzang: "This is where space-time is overlapped."

"시공간" means "space-time", in other words, a 4-dimensional manifold.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Here. It's stated clearly here; The place Mori resides in.

Mori: "이건?"
Xuanzang: "이곳은 시공간이 중첩된 지점"

Mori: "This is?"
Xuanzang: "This is where space-time is overlapped."

"시공간" means "space-time", in other words, a 4-dimensional manifold.

This current universe is also a 4-dimensional manifold and I exist in it, I am certainly 4D at this point based on your argument

 

[Sir_Ovens]

The point is that Mori ASCENDED to get to the 4D plane.

He physically became so huge that impaling his physical form was merely a small scratch on the palm of his hand for his true form.

He is literally a higher dimensional being any way you slice it.

 

[PrinceofPein]

The point is that Mori ASCENDED to get to the 4D plane.

He physically became so huge that impaling his physical form was merely a small scratch on the palm of his hand for his true form.

He is literally a higher dimensional being any way you slice it.

HDE is not for entities who are Higher dimensional by virtue of size or transcendence, strictly mathematical. So this will not qualify

 

[Firestorm808]

While I agree that the reasoning needs to be revised, I don't know if there is a replacement reasoning in the series.

 

[Mori]

Yes you have some misconception and missed something, which is the fact that Mori used avatars, not that he himself is existing at all those places at once, he used the tablets to project his avatar/clone.

I hardly think you yourself gets it.
Adding the Clone, Mori was at 4 places at the same time.

1. Being Nirvana of which he ascended to.
2. In the past in which he projected his Avatar via interacting with the timeline
3. In that same past, already training with Orge while this was happening in another location
4. In the present with the Ahan and Baby Teajin.

That is existing 4 times simultaneously on that Temporal Axis. No matter how you try to put it, he is able to easily transverse time which is the extra axis that is being referred to in this context and is unbound by it.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I hardly think you yourself gets it.
Adding the Clone, Mori was at 4 places at the same time.

1. Being Nirvana of which he ascended to.
2. In the past in which he projected his Avatar via interacting with the timeline
3. In that same past, already training with Orge while this was happening in another location
4. In the present with the Ahan and Baby Teajin.

That is existing 4 times simultaneously on that Temporal Axis. No matter how you try to put it, he is able to easily transverse time which is the extra axis that is being referred to in this context and is unbound by it.

With Avatars, that aside read my comments above

 

[Tarang123]

I really do not see how telling someone to read my post properly is condescending, I mean it literally

Nobody’s talking about that. People already focused on the condescending part lol

 

[Ikelaggan]

sigh, I guess I am 4D too

can you go ahead in time and grab the next Nintendo console from the future then since your 4D.