Jin Mori Dan HDE Removal (Part 1 of ???? HDE Removals)

[PrinceofPein]

Mori has HDE on his profile the reasons for that is

Higher-Dimensional Existence (4-D - Exists in a place where space and time overlap, and can oversee all of creation from this realm)

HDE is for entities that are higher dimensioned in the mathematical sense, i.e. they have an extra physical axis.
A place where space and time overlaps is vague as hell, and a place that you can oversee creation implies transcendence but not in the mathematical sense.
So He should lose his HDE.

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[Maitreya12]

Mori should 100% classify as a HDE

For one he’s referred to as one multiple times across the series (this is in reference to the Nirvana plane.)

Another thing is that he doesn’t interact with the physical world at all, having to project avatars into the real world as he exists as a higher dimensional being just like Xuangzang. In fact he can’t even keep his physical body, it needs to be discarded for him to ascend to the Nirvana plane, further indicating his higher dimensional status.

And finally according to the Higher-Dimensional Existence page, a higher dimensional being should be demonstrated to be able to move in another directions that lower dimensional beings cannot. This we can clearly see as Mori is shown to be able to physically hold actual points in time on the timeline which projects avatar’s into the past that he can traverse and manipulate. Moving a extra directional axis such as time which gives even further credence to Mori’s status as a higher dimensional being.

With all this evidence as well as the other implication statements like space and time overlapping and Mori’s transcendence over the real world by ascending to Nirvana (as is in line with mythology,) I think gives enough credence to Mori’s higher dimensional existence. Especially since we’re literally in the middle of a thread arguing over it right now, where it was agreed Mori does have HDE.

 

[PowerToScale]

Disagree FRA

 

[PrinceofPein]

Mori should 100% classify as a HDE

For one he’s referred to as one multiple times across the series (this is in reference to the Nirvana plane.)

Another thing is that he doesn’t interact with the physical world at all, having to project avatars into the real world as he exists as a higher dimensional being just like Xuangzang. In fact he can’t even keep his physical body, it needs to be discarded for him to ascend to the Nirvana plane, further indicating his higher dimensional status.

And finally according to the Higher-Dimensional Existence page, a higher dimensional being should be demonstrated to be able to move in another directions that lower dimensional beings cannot. This we can clearly see as Mori is shown to be able to physically hold actual points in time on the timeline which projects avatar’s into the past that he can traverse and manipulate. Moving a extra directional axis such as time which gives even further credence to Mori’s status as a higher dimensional being.

With all this evidence as well as the other implication statements like space and time overlapping and Mori’s transcendence over the real world by ascending to Nirvana (as is in line with mythology,) I think gives enough credence to Mori’s higher dimensional existence. Especially since we’re literally in the middle of a thread arguing over it right now, where it was agreed Mori does have HDE.

I feel like you really do not understand what is meant by mathematical Higher Dimension especially based on this statement

as Mori is shown to be able to physically hold actual points in time on the timeline which projects avatar’s into the past that he can traverse and manipulate. Moving a extra directional axis such as time which gives even further credence to Mori’s status as a higher dimensional being.

So if I time travel, I am now HDE? He holds tablets that records points in time and he can projects his avatar into it thats all, not cause he has an extra axis
You need an extra Axis
this is what extra axis means " 4-dimensional being would be capable of moving through an additional, perpendicular direction incomprehensible to lower-dimensional beings, and this can be generalized unto any higher number of dimensions." to explain further 3-D can move "up, down, forward, backwards, left and right" 4-D will have two extra something that well currently 3-D cannot explain with words

To note, I am not disputing his Transcendence over the world or anything, it is just not what HDE entails which is mathematical Transcendence

 

[Maitreya12]

I feel like you really do not understand a thing about what is meant by mathematical Higher Dimension especially based on this statement

So if I time travel, I am now HDE? He holds tablets that records points in time and he can projects his avatar into it thats all, not cause he has an extra axis
You need an extra Axis
this is what extra axis means " 4-dimensional being would be capable of moving through an additional, perpendicular direction incomprehensible to lower-dimensional beings, and this can be generalized unto any higher number of dimensions." to explain further 3-D can move "up, down, forward, backwards, left and right" 4-D will have two extra something that well currently 3-D cannot explain with words

To note, I am not disputing his Transcendence over the world or anything, it is just not what HDE entails which is mathematical Transcendence

That was just one of many statements. He’s referred to as being in a “higher dimension” multiple times across the series. And no in this series it would apply to the mathematical sense considering goh directly goes off of 4-D logic.

it’s not that he just “time traveled” or that the tablet “records points in time.” The tablet is a point in time. It’s an actual point in time Mori is holding onto, he didn’t even actively project an Avatar into it, he just simply held it and his projection was already influencing the past even as he remained in the present at the same time. the extra axis and direction Mori would be moving here is time itself which helps gives further indication towards his higher dimensional status as what his transcendence over the world indicates.

 

[PrinceofPein]

That was just one of many statements.

cool, means nothing to HDE, it is like the entire "HDE is reserved only for those who are mathematically Higher Dimensioned" is something you do not get

He’s referred to as being in a “higher dimension” multiple times across the series. And no in this series it would apply to the mathematical sense considering goh directly goes off of 4-D logic.

I can remember this scene, it was thrown out was it not? it is literally not used since it does not hold much weight and was used to reference something during explanation and not a literal representation. Else Mori would have become 4D a long time ago.

it’s not that he just “time traveled” or that the tablet “records points in time.” The tablet is a point in time. It’s an actual point in time Mori is holding onto, he didn’t even actively project an Avatar into it, he just simply held it and his projection was already influencing the past even as he remained in the present at the same time. the extra axis and direction Mori would be moving here is time itself which helps gives further indication towards his higher dimensional status as what his transcendence over the world indicates.

Again moving through time does not mean that you are moving an extra axis, I already explained above, else we will give all those who have immeasurable speed HDE.
And based on SirOvens statement

Tell me what makes the tablets "snapshots" using actual evidence from the story and not using a bunch of unrelated moments to string a theory that the tablets might be whole 4D space times. Even saying it out loud sounds absurd, like why would Xanzang have multiple timelines of the exact same events that are happening in the single timeline we're reading about? At the very best assumption, each tablet is a moment in the past and Mori grabbing one projected himself like Xanzang did during his fight against Satan.

We do not know shit about the tablets or how they fuction beyond one scene where Mori projected himself into the past via looking through one. Assuming anything else is an egregious exaggeration of what we can actually see from the scene.

The tablets are not even actual timelines but points in time, that allows you project your avatar into them.
What you are implying here is that mori jin was standing and then used an extra axis to travel and move into the past, when that is not the case but simply the tablets holds points in time and he can send his avatars through them.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Currently leaning towards disagree, I don't see why we wouldn't assume Jin Mori is a 4D being with the statements of being a higher dimensional being, and the showcase of the author knowing higher dimensions work spatially.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Currently leaning towards disagree, I don't see why we wouldn't assume Jin Mori is a 4D being with the statements of being a higher dimensional being, and the showcase of the author knowing higher dimensions work spatially.

No one is saying Mori is not Higher Dimensional in his own rights, I am saying Mathematical he is not, but based on Transcendence and the HDE rating is only for those who are HDE in the mathematical sense

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Jesus christ dude you're trying to make HDE stricter to get than it is. Might as well downgrade Athena while you're at it.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

No one is saying Mori is not Higher Dimensional in his own rights, I am saying Mathematical he is not, but based on Transcendence and the HDE rating is only for those who are HDE in the mathematical sense

Geometrically/Spatially also worked if I remember correctly, not strictly mathematically, after all, mathematical verses are rare.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Jesus christ dude you're trying to make HDE stricter to get than it is. Might as well downgrade Athena while you're at it.

Lol, or rather I tried to make it simpler but DT disagreed with that, still arguing for it though

https://vsbattles.com/threads/additions-to-the-hde-page.153009/#post-5701332

Geometrically/Spatially also worked if I remember correctly, not strictly mathematically, after all, mathematical verses are rare.

Yes Geometrically also works which is what is meant by extra axis.

 

[Mori]

Mori should 100% classify as a HDE

For one he’s referred to as one multiple times across the series (this is in reference to the Nirvana plane.)

Another thing is that he doesn’t interact with the physical world at all, having to project avatars into the real world as he exists as a higher dimensional being just like Xuangzang. In fact he can’t even keep his physical body, it needs to be discarded for him to ascend to the Nirvana plane, further indicating his higher dimensional status.

And finally according to the Higher-Dimensional Existence page, a higher dimensional being should be demonstrated to be able to move in another directions that lower dimensional beings cannot. This we can clearly see as Mori is shown to be able to physically hold actual points in time on the timeline which projects avatar’s into the past that he can traverse and manipulate. Moving a extra directional axis such as time which gives even further credence to Mori’s status as a higher dimensional being.

With all this evidence as well as the other implication statements like space and time overlapping and Mori’s transcendence over the real world by ascending to Nirvana (as is in line with mythology,) I think gives enough credence to Mori’s higher dimensional existence. Especially since we’re literally in the middle of a thread arguing over it right now, where it was agreed Mori does have HDE.

And for some reasons, this isn't enough for L1C rating in another thread.

Well, disagree with the HDE removal for Mori. His Dimensional Trancendence is pretty obvious.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Disagree FRA

 

[Yeolban]

Disagree, there's hard evidence for HDE Mori.

 

[Hasty12345]

Disagree heavily, it rarely gets more blatant than this.

 

[Quantu]

I agree with Maitreya. This is blatant HDE.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm with Maitreya here, so put me down as disagreeing

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Disagree fra

 

[BLS]

Maitreya makes more sense

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Disagree FRA

 

[speedster352]

Disagree fra

 

[Ped2018]

Damn, Pein got cooked

 

[The_Emperor4th]

@PrinceofPein, it would be better if we wait for your HDE thread to be conclude first before you nuke every single profile that has HDE abilities.

 

[PrinceofPein]

@PrinceofPein, it would be better if we wait for your HDE thread to be conclude first before you nuke every single profile that has HDE abilities.

Not at all, that thread is not going anywhere DT was clear on that. I am waiting for his comment here though

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Clearly, you misunderstand what it means when it said mathematical dimension

What DT disagreed with you about is R>F where transcendence is portrayed as being more real than fiction

Being called Higher dimensional is enough as it is because it always refers to mathematical dimension
no one says you look 3 dimensional without them actually not referring to the mathematical dimension of it having length width and height
now someone being called higher dimensional means they are higher in terms of regular 3 dimension.

Therefore i disagree

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Also disagree.

 

[deonment]

HDE is for entities that are higher dimensioned in the mathematical sense, i.e. they have an extra physical axis.

You do realize that all dimensions are innately mathematical yes? Higher spatial and temporal dimensions are literal additional axi, if you have ever seen a graph paper before you would realize this.
In addition to the fact that unless you are the space in which something resides you cannot have an additional axis, you can only extend through it, which is what our HDE is about, both of which Mori has.
This attempt is both inane and petty, just because your attempt at making something more restrictive failed, doesn't mean you can apply a faulty interpretation of the standards to downgrade something.

 

[Mori]

Damn ... Bro just got cooked

 

[SuperStar]

Average day in the wiki.

 

[Death_of_Lems]

Disagree FRA

(Soon to be HDE, it will require 50 lines of monologue talking about mathematical dimensions)

 

[AKUTO123]

Dont agree

 

[Robo432343]

i agree with pain-

...

disagree with op tho fra

 

[Tarang123]

Disagree FRA.

Stuff related to space-time shenanigans and directly being on a higher dimension to that of 3D is a blatant example of HDE

 

[Larssx]

After DT's comment in HDE crt I agree with FRA (of course we should wait for DT's comment)

 

[PrinceofPein]

just because your attempt at making something more restrictive failed, doesn't mean you can apply a faulty interpretation of the standards to downgrade something.

This again?
I am really not sure how someone will read my thread and think it is trying to make the HDE less restrictive and not the other way around.

 

[PowerToScale]

I feel as if throwing around that Pein is trying to make things hard should stop, its not really the place for such comments. Either way to quote Pein in his thread it would open up the page for more characters to get it...

In my opinion, i think we should not make the HDE page to pertain to only maths and physics

Anyways, still disagree with the downgrade and Mori should keep his HDE

 

[PrinceofPein]

Seeing reality as fiction doesn't mean that your body has an additional dimensional axis. Beings that look in reality as fiction are frequently portrayed as regular 3-dimensional beings (i.e. they often have a human shape), just that they are "more real".

Also for those that think that I am trying to make the standard strict. Here, based on this statement if a being is drawn to be just 3D, and even though they are said to be higher D in one form or another as long as it is not mathematically or their body does not have an extra physical axis, they will not qualify.

Which is why I am not worried about the whole disagreements since unless the standards changes, Mori does not qualify currently since he was portrayed as a regular 3-D entity without another axis but just that he has a greater ontology difference, regardless of him stated to ascend to a higher plane.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Also for those that think that I am trying to make the standard strict. Here, based on this statement if a being is drawn to be just 3D, and even though they are said to be higher D in one form or another as long as it is not mathematically or their body does not have an extra physical axis, they will not qualify.

Which is why I am not worried about the whole disagreements since unless the standards changes, Mori does not qualify currently since he was portrayed as a regular 3-D entity without another axis regardless of him stated to ascend to a higher plane.

Are you expecting the author to draw Mori as a hypercube instead?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Are you expecting the author to draw Mori as a hypercube instead?

Read to comprehension please. So in that request, read my post again, this time properly.

 

[Ikelaggan]

Also for those that think that I am trying to make the standard strict. Here, based on this statement if a being is drawn to be just 3D, and even though they are said to be higher D in one form or another as long as it is not mathematically or their body does not have an extra physical axis, they will not qualify.

Which is why I am not worried about the whole disagreements since unless the standards changes, Mori does not qualify currently since he was portrayed as a regular 3-D entity without another axis regardless of him stated to ascend to a higher plane.

Bruh, you are literally dropping to the "it must be drawn as a hyper dimensional tesseract to qualify for HDE" type argument. You might as well say all of marvel and DC is unironically 2D on paper