Remake of Jin Mori Dan HDE Removal (Part 1 of ???? HDE Removals)

[LordGinSama]

Tbh I still don't under how space-time overlapping means Higher D. Doesn't space-time ya know, by default overlap?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Tbh I still don't under how space-time overlapping means Higher D. Doesn't space-time ya know, by default overlap?

This.

Like, I'm not sure how that justification is enough for HDE. Are there any other feats/statements? Wasn't there a statement or smth of Mori having multiple space-time shenanigans only being a part of him?

 

[LordGinSama]

I honestly think the whole Nirvana thing is a massive ******* accusation fallacy but other verses do it so it's fine ig.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Tbh I still don't under how space-time overlapping means Higher D. Doesn't space-time ya know, by default overlap?

It's just that it has more contexts and statements. As above and in the previous crt that are not in the justification. I don't know if it qualifies as HDE, but I think at least the previous crt arguments should be addressed in the OP. Since it makes it seem like all HDE comes purely from that single justification.

 

[Reiner04]

I disagree

I'm pretty sure Mori fulfills the higher-dimensional requirement given that he has already demonstrates qualitative superiority in the mathematical sense too. Interactions between a high dimension being & lower dimensional being, pretty much suggest that a lower dimensional being can only perceive the cross section of a higher-dimensional being. This means that they can only interacts with the portion of that being that intersects the lower plane, like how a cube looks like a square to a 2 dimensional being since they can’t see the whole thing and so on.

We already have qualitative superiority, and the way Mori interacts with lower-dimensional beings does suggest, and imply higher-dimensional existence since we have further context that supports it. By the end of the series it’s made pretty clear that Mori’s true form simply doesn’t exist in the lower dimension, because for one his essence can exist it various spaces, at different times simultaneously. That's why avatars that can be projected into the lower dimension in any space, at any time are used to interact with lower-dimensional beings. Also it is literally impossible for lower-dimensional beings to exist in the realm beyond Nirvana, since it' was specifically stated only those that can achieve Nirvana end up there meaning this existence, this "place" must be achieved, it's not something that's bestowed upon you for good behavior, or pity.

Mori’s true form should be infinitely larger than the the space-time his avatar occupies, since Mubong realized that he was incapable of destroying Mori's true body. It does not exist in the lower dimension. When Mori is interacting with lower-dimensional beings, he doesn't “make himself smaller" or "reduce the dimensionality of his true body" he projects avatars that can interact with lower dimensional beings at any given point in time, while his true form NEVER manifest in the lower realm, same for Xuanzang who’s another being that achieved nirvana, she projects avatars across various points in time as well. Mori using "pieces" of himself to interact with lower-dimensional beings seems very similar to how lower dimensional beings can only interact with the cross sections or "a piece" of higher dimensional beings. In fact, Satan mistook Mori for a higher-dimensional being, when in fact it was Xuangzang who was secretly protecting Mori.

Mori simultaneously existed in:

1)The present with Ahan and baby Taejin,

2)The past when he projected his avatar and affected it (a paradox)

3) In a different dimension, aka Nirvana with Xuanzang

All three of the scans above happened simultaneously, pieces of Mori are existing at multiple points in time & space while his true body remains in Nirvana. The way EoS Mori interacts with lower dimensional beings seems very similar lower dimensional being can only perceive pieces or "cross sections" of the higher dimensional beings.

Looks fine.

Disagree FRA.

 

[PrinceofPein]

To start with, HDE is having an extra geometry axis to 3D, how 1D has a single one called length, and 2D has length with breadth, and 3D has length, with breadth and depth. to be HDE you need to have length, breadth, depth and one or more geometry axis. e.g. like this.
That is all HDE is about, I suggest reading the HDE page before making an argument

I disagree

I'm pretty sure Mori fulfills the higher-dimensional requirement given that he has already demonstrates qualitative superiority in the mathematical sense too. Interactions between a high dimension being & lower dimensional being, pretty much suggest that a lower dimensional being can only perceive the cross section of a higher-dimensional being. This means that they can only interacts with the portion of that being that intersects the lower plane, like how a cube looks like a square to a 2 dimensional being since they can’t see the whole thing and so on.

Okay I am glad you brought this up, so show me where they said they can only perceive the cross section of Mori

We already have qualitative superiority, and the way Mori interacts with lower-dimensional beings does suggest, and imply higher-dimensional existence since we have further context that supports it.

QS is no longer HDE by default, actually it never has been HDE by default that was why I made the thread to clear that up

By the end of the series it’s made pretty clear that Mori’s true form simply doesn’t exist in the lower dimension, because for one his essence can exist it various spaces, at different times simultaneously. That's why avatars that can be projected into the lower dimension in any space, at any time are used to interact with lower-dimensional beings. Also it is literally impossible for lower-dimensional beings to exist in the realm beyond Nirvana, since it' was specifically stated only those that can achieve Nirvana end up there meaning this existence, this "place" must be achieved, it's not something that's bestowed bestow upon you for good behavior, or pity.

Read all of this and none of this means HDE, so he ascends to nirvana and can oversee all of creation this does not mean you have an extra geometry axis, that is all HDE is about.

Mori’s true form should be infinitely larger than the the space-time his avatar occupies,

should be is not an argument, you need to substantiate your claims with scans

since Mubong realized that he was incapable of destroying Mori's true body. It does not exist in the lower dimension. When Mori is interacting with lower-dimensional beings, he doesn't “make himself smaller" or "reduce the dimensionality of his true body" he projects avatars that can interact with lower dimensional beings at any given point in time, while his true form NEVER manifest in the lower realm, same for Xuanzang who’s another being that achieved nirvana, she projects avatars across various points in time as well. Mori using "pieces" of himself to interact with lower-dimensional beings seems very similar to how lower dimensional beings can only interact with the cross sections or "a piece" of higher dimensional beings. In fact, Satan mistook Mori for a higher-dimensional being, when in fact it was Xuangzang who was secretly protecting Mori.

And which of this suggest he has an extra geometry axis?
Projecting avatars to different points in time and being protected by someone from nirvana, how does that mean extra geometry axis?

Mori simultaneously existed in:

Why are you contradicting yourself? You claimed he sent his avatars? so how is he simultaneously existing in this places when what he did was send avatars?

1)The present with Ahan and baby Taejin,

2)The past when he projected his avatar and affected it (a paradox)

3) In a different dimension, aka Nirvana with Xuanzang

All three of the scans above happened simultaneously, pieces of Mori are existing at multiple points in time & space while his true body remains in Nirvana. The way EoS Mori interacts with lower dimensional beings seems very similar lower dimensional being can only perceive pieces or "cross sections" of the higher dimensional beings.

Those are all his avatars like you said, for Mori to be HDE his true body needs to be spread across all points in time and points in space, that will be 4D HDE.
Secondly, "seems very similar to lower dimensional being can ony perceive cross sections of higher dimensional beings" is funny, since none of them ever saw his true body so how will you know how they perceive him since they could see his avatars just fine.

So far these are the arguments for HDE
1. jin Mori ascended to Nirvana, a place where he can see all of creation
2. He uses avatars to interact with the world
3. The tablets in Nirvana allows him to see any points in time and send his avatars there.

I will have to ask, how is any of this arguments remotely equal to him having an extra geometry axis? Also call me crazy but the last thread people disagreed because well they think Mori holds R>F over creation due to being able to view points in time in tablets, now r>F no longer qualifies for HDE, so now what I am getting as arguments and people agreeing with is "Should be" and "seems so"

I honestly think the whole Nirvana thing is a massive ******* accusation fallacy but other verses do it so it's fine ig.

this is why this is part 1 of many, I will go through the pages, ask 2 supporters, if they cannot provide valid reasons, I make a thread, that is what I did with GOH.

 

[Georredannea15]

To start with, HDE is having an extra geometry axis to 3D, how 1D has a single one called length, and 2D has length with breadth, and 3D has length, with breadth and depth. to be HDE you need to have length, breadth, depth and one or more geometry axis. e.g. like this.
That is all HDE is about, I suggest reading the HDE page before making an argument

Okay I am glad you brought this up, so show me where they said they can only perceive the cross section of Mori

QS is no longer HDE by default, actually it never has been HDE by default that was why I made the thread to clear that up

Read all of this and none of this means HDE, so he ascends to nirvana and can oversee all of creation this does not mean you have an extra geometry axis, that is all HDE is about.

should be is not an argument, you need to substantiate your claims with scans

And which of this suggest he has an extra geometry axis?
Projecting avatars to different points in time and being protected by someone from nirvana, how does that mean extra geometry axis?


Why are you contradicting yourself? You claimed he sent his avatars? so how is he simultaneously existing in this places when what he did was send avatars?

Those are all his avatars like you said, for Mori to be HDE his true body needs to be spread across all points in time and points in space, that will be 4D HDE.
Secondly, "seems very similar to lower dimensional being can ony perceive cross sections of higher dimensional beings" is funny, since none of them ever saw his true body so how will you know how they perceive him since they could see his avatars just fine.

So far these are the arguments for HDE
1. jin Mori ascended to Nirvana, a place where he can see all of creation
2. He uses avatars to interact with the world
3. The tablets in Nirvana allows him to see any points in time and send his avatars there.

I will have to ask, how is any of this arguments remotely equal to him having an extra geometry axis? Also call me crazy but the last thread people disagreed because well they think Mori holds R>F over creation due to being able to view points in time in tablets, now r>F no longer qualifies for HDE, so now what I am getting as arguments and people agreeing with is "Should be" and "seems so"

this is why this is part 1 of many, I will go through the pages, ask 2 supporters, if they cannot provide valid reasons, I make a thread, that is what I did with GOH.

Btw R>F transcendence has never give you HDE. Except for extra contexts

 

[terabithia]

Following!

 

[Maitreya12]

Ok….this is genuinely insane.

I know this was brought up before but I just want to hammer this point in because We already did this crap before Pain

Hasn't even been two months yet why

In that thread, it was plenty debated why Mori had reasonable grounds for his HDE rating to remain, with that thread being evaluated and agreed upon by many staff like @DarkDragonMedeus @Sir_Ovens @Maverick_Zero_X and @Theglassman12 with zero other staff members agreeing with Pein’s proposal.

To quote what @Theglassman12 had to say about Mori’s HDE btw:

“Don’t know much on GoH, but this is a hard disagree for me, it’s way too on the nose that this is HDE that to say it’s not is in denial. At best the wording needs some better explanation, but this is textbook definition HDE.”

But all that also came along with an overwhelmingly wide consensus by literally every single other person who participated in the previous thread that Mori’s HDE should remain.

I’m serious, actually no one supported Pain’s position in that thread. Insane right.

But what’s even worse about this whole new thread they made….is that there’s not even any difference from before.

In fact they’ve actually removed their prior explanation from before goddamnit so there’s absolutely nothing new brought to the table or arguments being made in the OP of the thread to qualify for removing Mori’s HDE rating.

Honestly that alone should be sufficient grounds to close this thread, but seeing as how this is a topic they’re determined to do found out I like god of highschool stop ruining verses I enjoy god ******* damnit Pain. It’s probably gonna remain open anyways.

But I think the fact that this thread already has two staff disagreements is probably a good indication that this thread should be closed.

 

[LordGinSama]

“Don’t know much on GoH, but this is a hard disagree for me, it’s way too on the nose that this is HDE that to say it’s not is in denial. At best the wording needs some better explanation, but this is textbook definition HDE.”

This is basically my opinion.

 

[KLOL506]

@Theglassman12

 

[PrinceofPein]

Ok….this is genuinely insane.

I know this was brought up before but I just want to hammer this point in because We already did this crap before Pain

Hasn't even been two months yet why

In that thread, it was plenty debated why Mori had reasonable grounds for his HDE rating to remain, with that thread being evaluated and agreed upon by many staff like @DarkDragonMedeus @Sir_Ovens @Maverick_Zero_X and @Theglassman12 with zero other staff members agreeing with Pein’s proposal.

To quote what @Theglassman12 had to say about Mori’s HDE btw:

“Don’t know much on GoH, but this is a hard disagree for me, it’s way too on the nose that this is HDE that to say it’s not is in denial. At best the wording needs some better explanation, but this is textbook definition HDE.”

But all that also came along with an overwhelmingly wide consensus by literally every single other person who participated in the previous thread that Mori’s HDE should remain.

I’m serious, actually no one supported Pain’s position in that thread. Insane right.

But what’s even worse about this whole new thread they made….is that there’s not even any difference from before.

In fact they’ve actually removed their prior explanation from before goddamnit so there’s absolutely nothing new brought to the table or arguments being made in the OP of the thread to qualify for removing Mori’s HDE rating.

Honestly that alone should be sufficient grounds to close this thread, but seeing as how this is a topic they’re determined to do found out I like god of highschool stop ruining verses I enjoy god ******* damnit Pain. It’s probably gonna remain open anyways.

But I think the fact that this thread already has two staff disagreements is probably a good indication that this thread should be closed.

I do not care about previous thread but I should say, Glassman said it is HDE based on R>F, well news flash that's not HDE.

Also again, the arguments are the same because there is no argument for HDE aside mental gymnastics which is "should be" and "seems to be".
Also I already pointed out the lack of knowledge on what HDE entails from the only argument that has been made.

Also Lordgriffin agrees with this and leph disagrees so how are you seeing 2 staffs disagreements?

 

[PrinceofPein]

the

Please can you recheck the thread now and check out the argument and my reply to it

to

Here is my reply to his post
Post in thread 'Remake of Jin Mori Dan HDE Removal (Part 1 of ???? HDE Removals)' https://vsbattles.com/threads/remak...al-part-1-of-hde-removals.155885/post-5884642

 

[Yeolban]

Disagree FRA.

 

[BOEGVELD]

Agreed. Space and time overlapping doesn't imply his body gained an additional axis. But beside that, the last few GoH chapters imply Mori's body didn't stay beyond Nirvana to begin with.

 

[Yeolban]

last few GoH chapters imply Mori's body didn't stay beyond Nirvana to begin with.

I have stated this in other threads before, and I shall state this again.

It is heavily implied that he had to return to Nirvana in order to keep the Universe stable.

In the epilogue, the "God Fragments" kept coming from the cracks and they were also seemingly evolving (when Dean and Bongram confronted them, they mentioned that they were smarter and stronger than the previous ones). Mori also mentioned that they were also present in outer space and all that-

Xuanzang mentioned that he would only be able to fix the cracks and keep everything stable if he ascended to Nirvana.
Mori, when he said he had to leave again, this time avoided answering how long he would be gone. He would only say "a long time" or not answer at all, hence Daewi and Mira realized that they won't be able to see him again.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Bump

Also whether he stayed in Nirvana or not is not relevant to this thread.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Please can you recheck the thread now and check out the argument and my reply to it

Here is my reply to his post
Post in thread 'Remake of Jin Mori Dan HDE Removal (Part 1 of ???? HDE Removals)' https://vsbattles.com/threads/remak...al-part-1-of-hde-removals.155885/post-5884642

Bump

 

[CloverDragon03]

LordGriffin has commented three times on this thread, and none of these comments have indicated an agreement with the thread - in fact they emphasized how he doesn't know the verse.

So why is he counted as agreeing with the OP?

 

[PrinceofPein]

LordGriffin has commented three times on this thread, and none of these comments have indicated an agreement with the thread - in fact they emphasized how he doesn't know the verse.

So why is he counted as agreeing with the OP?

Cause he indeed agreed that is not enough for HDE, which would be a vote in agreement with the thread.
Also not knowing the verse =/= my vote on the matter will not count.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Except... He didn't voice a full-on agreement. At all

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Except... He didn't voice a full-on agreement. At all

You have no way to ping him? There was some more discussion and arguments and counterarguments after he expressed his opinions. So to confirm I think this would be good?

 

[CloverDragon03]

@LordGriffin1000 Would you say you agree, disagree, or are neutral to this thread? I wanna remove any and all confusion

 

[Deagonx]

I disagree

I'm pretty sure Mori fulfills the higher-dimensional requirement given that he has already demonstrates qualitative superiority in the mathematical sense too. Interactions between a high dimension being & lower dimensional being, pretty much suggest that a lower dimensional being can only perceive the cross section of a higher-dimensional being. This means that they can only interacts with the portion of that being that intersects the lower plane, like how a cube looks like a square to a 2 dimensional being since they can’t see the whole thing and so on.

We already have qualitative superiority, and the way Mori interacts with lower-dimensional beings does suggest, and imply higher-dimensional existence since we have further context that supports it. By the end of the series it’s made pretty clear that Mori’s true form simply doesn’t exist in the lower dimension, because for one his essence can exist it various spaces, at different times simultaneously. That's why avatars that can be projected into the lower dimension in any space, at any time are used to interact with lower-dimensional beings. Also it is literally impossible for lower-dimensional beings to exist in the realm beyond Nirvana, since it' was specifically stated only those that can achieve Nirvana end up there meaning this existence, this "place" must be achieved, it's not something that's bestowed upon you for good behavior, or pity.

Mori’s true form should be infinitely larger than the the space-time his avatar occupies, since Mubong realized that he was incapable of destroying Mori's true body. It does not exist in the lower dimension. When Mori is interacting with lower-dimensional beings, he doesn't “make himself smaller" or "reduce the dimensionality of his true body" he projects avatars that can interact with lower dimensional beings at any given point in time, while his true form NEVER manifest in the lower realm, same for Xuanzang who’s another being that achieved nirvana, she projects avatars across various points in time as well. Mori using "pieces" of himself to interact with lower-dimensional beings seems very similar to how lower dimensional beings can only interact with the cross sections or "a piece" of higher dimensional beings. In fact, Satan mistook Mori for a higher-dimensional being, when in fact it was Xuangzang who was secretly protecting Mori.

Mori simultaneously existed in:

1)The present with Ahan and baby Taejin,

2)The past when he projected his avatar and affected it (a paradox)

3) In a different dimension, aka Nirvana with Xuanzang

All three of the scans above happened simultaneously, pieces of Mori are existing at multiple points in time & space while his true body remains in Nirvana. The way EoS Mori interacts with lower dimensional beings seems very similar lower dimensional being can only perceive pieces or "cross sections" of the higher dimensional beings.

HDE refers specifically to higher numbers of spatial/temporal dimensions, not generic higher dimensions of any kind.

So for instance, if Heaven were a qualitatively superior dimension, the beings from it don't automatically have HDE, if there's no increased spatial dimensions.

I'm not seeing anything in these scans that suggests an additional coordinate axis.

 

[ImmortalDread]

What does qualitative superior dimension mean?

 

[Firestorm808]

I agree that where one lives shouldn't apply to you own being unless it directly affects your physiology .

Is there any other reasoning to suggest his being has more than 3 dimensions? If not, it should be removed.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

What does qualitative superior dimension mean?

Well as the name implies, a dimension (space) that is unreachable to the dimension (space) below it. Wether it be size or power or existence.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I never heard of that. A dimension does not equate to space, so this is not definitely the accurate definition.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I never heard of that. A dimension does not equate to space, so this is not definitely the accurate definition.

I mean, yeah, dimensions are not spaces… but referring to a dimension as a space is the only way a “qualitatively superior dimension” can be defined. Otherwise it doesn’t exist.

There is technically no such thing as a qualitatively superior dimension. literal higher dimensions are quantitative not qualitative. They’re just real number lines (length*length*length…etc.) stacked perpendicular onto themselves. I’m sure you already know this much.

So I just defined it in the context that @Deagonx used.

 

[Deagonx]

There is technically no such thing as a qualitatively superior dimension. literal higher dimensions are quantitative not qualitative. They’re just real number lines (length*length*length…etc.) stacked perpendicular onto themselves. I’m sure you already know this much.

The thing is, I'm not seeing anything that suggest the higher dimensions being referred to are spatial, just realms that are transcendent, which isn't HDE.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I mean, there should be alternative suggestion for “transcendental Realm”, or? If it is not referring to spatial one. A logical in-context interpretation should be given otherwise.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

The thing is, I'm not seeing anything that suggest the higher dimensions being referred to are spatial, just realms that are transcendent, which isn't HDE.

Yeah I’m not knowledgeable in GOH up to this point in the series so I’m just watching the arguments. But I think the guy you replied to earlier claimed that the realm exists in such a way that the space-time continuum is easily observable. Which would suggest the context of transcendence being 4-D.

So those who can exist in that higher realm can see the space time continuum (4-D construct) as a whole and interact with it.

 

[Deagonx]

But I think the guy you replied to earlier claimed that the realm exists in such a way that the space-time continuum is observable. Which would suggest the context of transcendence being 4-D.

I don't agree with that personally. You can have a transcendent realm without additional spatial dimensions that can view an entire dimension.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

No problem

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

lets create a p&a for chacraters with transcendent state then

 

[ImmortalDread]

I don't agree with that personally. You can have a transcendent realm without additional spatial dimensions that can view an entire dimension.

May you tell us how this works, btw?

 

[Deagonx]

May you tell us how this works, btw?

Fictionally. But in general, think of it like this. Imagine a multiverse, with a heaven above it with angels and gods who are superior to the multiverse. They can view the whole multiverse from their realm. Is there any way for this to be the case without additional spatial dimensions? Of course. Because they could just be entirely non-physical.

The HDE ability refers specifically to increased spatial dimensions (or temporal but w/e) and not QS to a space time continuum.

 

[Xinsignia1]

Okay I am glad you brought this up, so show me where they said they can only perceive the cross section of Mori

His avatars are pieces of his essence, none of them are Mori's full essence. Not to mention there is no proper representation of the 4th dimension that exist in general (we literally can't perceive it in real life so we take artistic liberations to represent such concepts) but the way Mori interacts with the lower dimension, suggest higher dimensional existence. When Mori entered the realm beyond Nirvana, him and & Xuangzang constitution weren't even depicted as norma/regular constitutions, their forms are stretched out and in flux. This suggest that their constitution is different, in this plane, which makes sense considering they're all powerful spirits and do not have the same makeup as lower dimensional beings.

Read all of this and none of this means HDE, so he ascends to nirvana and can oversee all of creation this does not mean you have an extra geometry axis, that is all HDE is about.

Yeah it's not just "all of creation" because the Korean raws clearly state that Mori rules all universes (plural) and all of creation. A few months ago Karma had the raws translated by a korean friend, the line in question is "열반에 다다른자가 도달하는 곳 이곳에서 모든 우주와 삼라만상을 관장 할 수 있느니라." Which roughly translates to:
The place of attainment for those who have attained Nirvana, where they can preside over all the universes and the three realms.
IIRC, the Korean the pre-noun is the determiner of the quantity, since there there are no "singular" or "plural" words in korean, which Karma already went over, when she brought up the matter months ago. So by virtue ruling all universe(s) which are 4-D structures should grant him HDE no? Webtoon just says "all of creation" but that's clearly wrong since they omitted some of the text. They even omitted the text from some scans. As in the the omitted text was in the Korean raws and fan translations but were never included in the webtoon stranslations. Even in the other CRT, it was pretty much agreed by everyone that webtoon botched them, and SirOvens agreed that they weren't 100% reliable. Therefore, wouldn't superiority over multiple 4-D structures grant him HDE?

1) the korean raws actually stated that from Nirvana he rules all universes/every universe and all of creation.

2) Nirvana does not "exist" within these places or the "universe", it's above them, so shouldn't Mori be 4D considering he's superior to many space-time continuums?

He exist in a place that you can't get to by ascending. Its literally impossible for non-ascended folks to access the realm beyond Nirvana. Also a being being from that same place like Mori, was referred to as a "a being from higher dimension" Mori isn't creating a portal to get to the realm beyond Nirvana, he's literally moving in a direction no one else can get to unless they obtain it themselves. Not even baby Taejin and Ahan could perceive or were even aware that Mori was having an entire conversation with Xuanzang in an entite different dimension, the exact moment he was with them on Geundoowun trying to escape the fallout caused by the battle between him and Mubong, which makes sense considering the realm beyond Nirvana exist outside of causality.

Should be is not an argument, you need to substantiate your claims with scans

IIRC, SirOvens alreayd brought up this point,

Mubong inflicting pain on Mori was pretty much a fodder move and barely did anything to his true body, if anything at all.

And which of this suggest he has an extra geometry axis?

Because they're only interacting with a fraction of Mori.

And which of this suggest he has an extra geometry axis?
Projecting avatars to different points in time and being protected by someone from nirvana, how does that mean extra geometry axis?

Those avatars exist outside of causality, and & they come from outside the 4D structure. Those "avatars" were also referred to as a "being from a higher dimension" only manifesting a fraction of themselves in a lower realm, that doesn't seem like possesses an extra axis? They're moving in directions the lower beings cannot.

Why are you contradicting yourself? You claimed he sent his avatars? so how is he simultaneously existing in this places when what he did was send avatars?

What are you tralking about? How am I contradicting myself? All of Mori's avatars are still Mori, they're not pieces of Mori that somehow develop their own consciousness like Mori Hui, but they're literally all still part of Mori's existence, and he uses said existence to interact with the lower realm, as in he's experiencing all of those things at once. Doesn't Darkseid and the other new gods not operate through avatars and the same principle? You're asking how is he simultaneously existing in this places, him sending avatars is him existing in multiple places, he's doing these things outside of causality.

HDE refers specifically to higher numbers of spatial/temporal dimensions, not generic higher dimensions of any kind.

So for instance, if Heaven were a qualitatively superior dimension, the beings from it don't automatically have HDE, if there's no increased spatial dimensions.

I'm not seeing anything in these scans that suggests an additional coordinate axis.

I'm aware. And how is the realm beyond nirvana generic when, this place has been shown to exist outside of causality? and hold the timeline of a universe that Mori can pull out certain points to affect/impact? and to be clear the panel I just posted, happened about 60 or chapters priors before Mori even ascended. In chapter 508, we saw an obscure figure, that Bonghram reacted to, while Mori in real time was training with Ogre (way before he even arrived to fight Mubong the second time) We later learned that obscure figure Bonghram saw, was actually ascended Mori from nirvana in chapter 568 (60 chapters later) it wasn't until we saw Mori enter the place beyond Nirvana, and touch the point did we understand the presence that appeared was actually Mori from the realm beyond Nirvana. And to add considering this is just ONE of many universes which again, are 4-D structures? I think this paints a clear picture of Miro's high dimensional existence.

So for instance, if Heaven were a qualitatively superior dimension, the beings from it don't automatically have HDE, if there's no increased spatial dimensions.

Why wouldn't they have higher dimensional existence when it was clearly stated that existence must be achieved by their own accord? Hell they even stated that that ascending to the realm beyond Nirvana makes them all power spirits/beings. Entering the realm beyond nirvana changes your physiology meaning there's a caveat to exist in such a state. You don't keep your 3D physiology when you remain beyond Nirvana. Again, Ahan and Baby Taeijin didn't even know Mori was simultaneously having a conversation in another dimension with Xuanzang in the realm beyond Nirvana considering Considering it was stated on panel that they could not go there , and all of this literally happened in no time at at all since no time had passed in the universe when Mori was with baby Taijin and Ahan. Because the moment he made his decision after speaking with Xuanzang he stopped the destruction of the earth.

I'm not seeing anything in these scans that suggests an additional coordinate axis.

Why wouldn't be? It's stated that from the realm beyond Nirvana, Mori oversees all universe(s) and all of creation. Unless I'm missing something each universe possessess it's own space-time continuum which is a 4-D structure. If Mori reigns over these things, then at the minimum he should be 4D no?

 

[Deagonx]

And how is the realm beyond nirvana generic when, this place has been shown to exist outside of causality?

You're completely missing my point. The word "generic" wasn't to suggest the realm is unimpressive some way. I am saying that there is a lack of evidence to suggest it has more spatial dimensions.

And to add considering this is just ONE of many universes which again, are 4-D structures? I think this paints a clear picture of Miro's high dimensional existence.

None of that information means the higher realms have more spatial dimensions.

Why wouldn't they have higher dimensional existence when it was clearly stated that existence must be achieved by their own accord?

What does that have to do with having more spatial dimensions?

You don't keep your 3D physiology when you remain beyond Nirvana.

That doesn't mean you gain a 4D physiology. It could just be that you're obtaining an ethereal/conceptual physiology, which isn't HDE.

If Mori reigns over these things, then at the minimum he should be 4D no?

No. He may have qualitative superiority over them, but that can be achieved without increased spatial dimensionality. So HDE would not apply here.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Fictionally. But in general, think of it like this. Imagine a multiverse, with a heaven above it with angels and gods who are superior to the multiverse. They can view the whole multiverse from their realm. Is there any way for this to be the case without additional spatial dimensions? Of course. Because they could just be entirely non-physical.

The HDE ability refers specifically to increased spatial dimensions (or temporal but w/e) and not QS to a space time continuum.

Oh, so you're saying that from a theological perspective, it can be understood in that way.
Yes, I see how this fits. I appreciate you sharing your interpretation; that's all I wanted to know.