Reinhard Heydrich vs The Star Maker

[ShrektheHandsomeOgre]

This is too fun!

"You can't have a greater "type" of transcendence, you only have a higher "level" of transcendence."

Well of course you can have different types of trascendence. Just depending on the definitions you take for trascendence, if we take definition number 2: "Being beyond comprehensio" then i would say Masadaverse has no real trascendence between Hadou gods, but i was taking definition number 1: "Exceeding usual limits; Extending or lying beyond the limits of ordinary experience" in that perspective Masadaverse can have infinite trascendence just as they say.

"And I already told you that you don't need to be defined as incomprehensible to be transcendent of someone, again you are not listening to me, so I'll quote myself: "Yes, the word "incomprehensible" doesn't need to be used for demonstrating transcendence, I agree with this. I mention a Reality-Fiction difference being a textbook showcasing of transcendence in fiction, mentioning Umineko as an example. I know this.""

Great! in that case i told you that it´s not necessary a showcasing of trascendence like Umineko to prove it, because if we use the standard definition of trascendesce that doesn´t involve being "beyond cromprehension", then star maker verse fulfill this role with it´s statement of "Bigger, and more complex in every way"

"You don't even know what you are arguing. You are trying to say that Shinza Bansho doesn't have transcendence in its franchise. Not that it has a "lesser type" of transcendence that. That is what your words mean, but you aren't defining it as such. "

My words imply that if we consider trascendence by the factor of being not only superior but also totally incromprehensible to the lower being, then masadaverse has no real trascendence, but im not using that definition so masadaverse does have trascendence.

 

[Warren_Valion]

>Not im not saying that, im saying: That statement would count as infinite trascendence between one cosmos and another, not just one level of trascendence.

No, it doesn't. I have debunked that argument of infinite transcendence for Star Maker for literally months now. And reiterated this even multiple times this day.

> Intelligence and knowledge is one of the facets of a being. A being that is infinite trascendental in every way is therefore omniscient.

And yes, some tier 0 are put there because the have no equal in the verse and are absoulty boundless in their respective verse, but by feats they could be wrecked by some High 1-A from another verse like Mythos. This was already argued by Aeyu some time ago.

Nyarlathotep has infinite transcendence as isn't omniscient. So no, you are wrong. Being infinite levels of transcendence above 1-A doesn't make you omniscient. That's the dumbest thing, I've ever heard. Here's a thread about The Law of Identity and in it, many admins agree that knowledge doesn't factor into being Omnipotent.

Some verse may have more characters or feats backing up a specific tiering than others, like having more 1-As, but that doesn't mean that 1-A from certain verses can beat High 1-A's from other verses, that's not how tiers work.

 

[Warren_Valion]

All those definitions are synonyms of the same thing. Transcendent beings are always "beyond" or "incomprehensible" to those below them.

A 3-D being is always beyond the world and comprehension of a 2-D being. That's what transcendence is.

But one can be transcendent without being described as "incomprehensible" like the gates are in the Mythos. They can be described as insignificant or practically non-existent, like in Umineko and Shinza Bansho. This is how transcendence works.

You can't pick and choose specific wording from definitions to wank the strength of one character and downplay the strength of another.


If you have a problem with the wiki's understanding of transcendence, then make a CRT about it.

If you have a problem with Shinza Bansho's level of transcendence, make a CRT.

 

[ShrektheHandsomeOgre]

1. "Nyarlathotep has infinite transcendence as isn't omniscient. So no, you are wrong. Being infinite levels of transcendence above 1-A doesn't make you omniscient. That's the dumbest thing, I've ever heard. Here's a thread about The Law of Identity and in it, many admins agree that knowledge doesn't factor into being Omnipotent."

Ok, so its still uwknown if nya is , superior or inferior "we know he is comparable" to the ultimate gods, and some of them are already omniscient, if he infinitetly trascends them in all ways he would be omniscient. If he trascends just a facet of them then he still can claim to be night omniscient but we cant say he trascends them in every way

"Some verse may have more characters or feats backing up a specific tiering than others, like having more 1-As, but that doesn't mean that 1-A from certain verses can beat High 1-A's from other verses, that's not how tiers work."

Bro.. i told you, they probably beat them if they were in the same verse.

"No, it doesn't. I have debunked that argument of infinite transcendence for Star Maker for literally months now"

You dont.

"All those definitions are synonyms of the same thing. Transcendent beings are always "beyond" or "incomprehensible" to those below them."

WTF!, they are not synonyms, oh man....

lol, how is "Universally applicable or significant" synonym to "beyond comprehension"

Ok, one definition means "beyond ordinary capabilities" and the other say "beyond comprehension", the second definition does not amply to the star maker but applies to the ultimate spirit; The second definition doesn´t applies to masadaverse, but the first definition applies to both masadaverse and the star maker.

 

[ShrektheHandsomeOgre]

"Here's a thread about The Law of Identity and in it, many admins agree that knowledge doesn't factor into being Omnipotent."

I dont care about that to be honest, is debatable and im still from the opinion that " Knowledge is power, and a being who is not omniscient could not be omnipotent. As others have noted, these also go along with God's omnipresence"

Pd: im going to sleep, question for tomorrow: What is the standard definition of trascendence used in the wiki, does it exist? if so, can you provide a quote? or it is your definition?

 

[Warren_Valion]

1

Power has nothing to do with intelligence. Omniscience and levels of transcendence having nothing to do with each other. You clearly didn't click on the link that I gave you, as it proved you are wrong, knowledge isn't power. You not caring about it means nothing, your feelings are irrelevant.

2.

Your response doesn't make sense to the quote it is responding to, so I don't know what to respond to.

3.

I did, look at the five million other posts I made in the last two months.

4.

I meant all the definitions you used. Sorry for forgetting a few keywords.

And being beyond something and being beyond something comprehension are the same thing, it's the beyond that's the keyword.

The other definitions don't apply and aren't used to describe dimensional or beyond-dimensional transcendence on the wiki, so they should be ignored.

And again, you can't pick and choose which definitions you like to make certain characters stronger while simultaneously making other characters weaker.


I already told you to make a transcendence CRT and a Shinza Bansho level of 1-A CRT if you disagree with what the wiki believes, that's the only way to change things around here.


I'm done arguing with you.

You are completely impossible to argue with, you don't listen to others, you don't argue all of someone's points only certain parts. You are an unmovable object, and I'm done.

I'll someone else deal with you.


Don't forget to make the CRTs.

Goodbye.

 

[ShrektheHandsomeOgre]

You are so childrish warrent, is really funny!

1. of course power as the capabilitie to do something is limited by the knowledge of how to and the possibilitiy of knowing the existence of it. Power is limited by knowledge, therefore you can´t be fully omnipotent without being omniscient. But we should not talk about it as i think is not too relevant. And warrent, not every word needs to be relevant, sometimes you want express your feelings about something for the hell of it.

2. We should forget about that too, but the point is, "some high 1-A from one verse can beat tier 0 from another by feats" we don´t do it because is forbidden and because doesn´t make too much sense.

3. I did, not a single valuable argument.

4. "And being beyond something and being beyond something comprehension are the same thing"

It is not. One definition just involves being beyond the ordinary capabilities of something, like having an untouchable law (as in masadaverse), the other definitions involves being incomprehensible (beyond comprehension = incomprehensible), and we already agree to not use that definition.

Im impossible to argue with you because i dont concede your points. You are to childrish warrent; But you are entertaining, i hope you well.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Somebody, please, close this.

 

[Arianrhod_The_Sept-Terrion_Eternal]

Muryou Taisuu this thread XD

 

[Eganergo]