- 8,427
- 3,144
What?ABoogieYesSir said:
Every 1-A in Shinza Bansho has True-Godly.
He literally just has to throw his spear. .
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Reinhard Heydrich vs The Star Maker
- Thread starter Sandman31
- Start date
- Status
Every 1-A in Shinza Bansho has True-Godly.
He literally just has to throw his spear. .
- 24,183
- 3,938
And star maker created universes that would have true godly and could have easily distorted them if he wanted to
- 8,427
- 3,144
Universes can regenerate?ZacharyGrossman273 said:
- 8,809
- 2,868
Kek
- 995
- 233
The thing is that it is not Nigh-Omnipresent but literally Omnipresent you could say that it was in every route of the DI and Kajiri Kamui Kagura (again, not gonna say three times the letter "k"). The thing about the cosmoses is that they exist and it is present in everyone of them in the state it was written in the op.ZacharyGrossman273 said:
- 995
- 233
Oh, the spoilers T_T (just kidding, kinesiology, antibiotics and infectology consume a lot of my time)Sandman31 said:
To be honest this key (Spirit) of the Maker seems like something that could create without any consequence and I've typed "ctrl+f" looking for a moment where it dies and I didn't find nothing.
- 8,427
- 3,144
^ Still relevant to this thread as no one refuted my understanding on how powerful The Star Maker is by giving me a quote that states something along the lines of each consecutive cosmos transcending the proceeding one in Star Maker's Infinite Hierarchy of Cosmoses. Therefore giving Star Maker Infinite Outerversal transcendence that people proclaim that he has.Warren Valion said:
I still see people in other threads make such statements and I'd like to get down to the truth.
- 8,427
- 3,144
So each creation is like an Omnipresent entity that makes up the totality of its cosmos?Sandman31 said:
Interesting.
- 75
- 34
Pump!
ABoogieYesSir
They/Them- 6,164
- 239
Feels like this ain't going nowhere
- 995
- 233
I don't think that the Creative Mode stomps but will give a bad time (Megalovania starts playing). The other one... Yeah. Kinda destroys Hadou Gods (the ones that have a Taikyoku that is not immeasurable)Warren Valion said:
- 8,427
- 3,144
That was my statement before I made all my current undebunked points.BleedingPeach said:
I was misinformed into thinking that the Infinite Hierarchy of Cosmoses was transcendental and therefore made the Creative Mode infinite levels of transcendence above baseline 1-A for creating the hierarchy.
But the Infinite Hierarchy of Cosmoses isn't transcendental, and the Creative Mode isn't infinite levels of transcendence above baseline 1-A, and neither is the Ultimate Spirit.
My viewpoints and understanding of Star Maker's power have changed dramatically throughout the entirety of this thread.
- 995
- 233
I am interested. What made you change your mind? No. There's no sarcasm, no taunting, no trolling. Just me wanting to know what was the thing that made the Maker so below.
We here aren't talking about trascendence but AP. The german is pretty OP? Yes. Is the Maker (Ultimate Spirit) OP? Yes, it is. The problem is that it's not a Hadou God or Mythos character (not gonna say Umineko or else First Witch will have chop my head off) so there's no way to properly define the Maker's limit.
So... yeah. If it makes feel more comfortable then we can say that this is inconclusive (again, no sarcasm, no trolling, no taunting)
We here aren't talking about trascendence but AP. The german is pretty OP? Yes. Is the Maker (Ultimate Spirit) OP? Yes, it is. The problem is that it's not a Hadou God or Mythos character (not gonna say Umineko or else First Witch will have chop my head off) so there's no way to properly define the Maker's limit.
So... yeah. If it makes feel more comfortable then we can say that this is inconclusive (again, no sarcasm, no trolling, no taunting)
- 8,427
- 3,144
Kamunagara post made right above this one ^Warren Valion said:
Transcendence is AP, dude. It marks what level of strength you exist at.
- 995
- 233
If think about it trascendentalism is more like an adjective in the 1-A tier. No single Mythos character has trascendalism and yet (a good portion of characters) wipe the floor with Reinhard. Why? The word "trascendental" was not mentioned in any of Lovecraft books and they seem above even the dimensions and creations and whatever exists above it.
Trascendence is not AP. It's just an adjective for characters like Hajun, Marie, Mercurius, Reinhard or Ren (Yes, I've ordered them alphabetically).
Trascendence is not AP. It's just an adjective for characters like Hajun, Marie, Mercurius, Reinhard or Ren (Yes, I've ordered them alphabetically).
- 8,427
- 3,144
You're acting like transcendence is a thing only from Shinza Bansho, it's not.BleedingPeach said:
Transcendence is AP. It's a word that signfies that one being is beyond another being.
The same way a 5th-Dimensional being is transcendent to a 4th-Dimensional being. The same applies to outerversal levels.
Shinza Bansho does this with Taikyoku values.
Umineko does this with it's layers system cosmology as shown in this pic.
And you are wrong about the Mythos, there are infinite levels of transcendence in the Mythos. As shown here in a previous post from me adressing you about this exact topic:
"You are incorrect sir.
The Star Maker and Nyarlathotep are not the same at all.
The reason the Mythos is so stupidly into 1-A isn't because there is an infinite number of Outer Gods.
It's because of this:
'Regardless, I think Nyarla takes this. Nyarla is to the Great Old Ones what the Great Old Ones are to humanity, and being to a 1-A what a 1-A is to a normal person has been grounds for High 1-A before.
Essentially, if the only characters in the Cthulhu Mythos were humans, Great Old Ones, and Nyarlathotep (and Azzathoth on top), Nyarla would probably be listed as High 1-A.'
This is a quote from Monarch Laciel from the Hajin vs Nyar thread.
Nyarlathotep is to the Great Old Ones what the Great Old Ones are to humanity. In other words, Nyarlathotep has infinite outerversal transcendence, and he is one of the lesser Outer Gods in an infinite hierarchy of them.
The Star Maker seemingly lacks that infinite outerversal transcendence that the Mythos has, at least to my knowledge. So he isn't equal to Nyar, he's infinite levels of infinity weaker than him."
You don't need the word "transcendend" to understand if one being transcends another. A Reailty-Fiction difference between two levels are textbook example of transcedence in ficiton, and is what is seen in Umineko. Using the word "incomprehensable to this lower level/being" is another great way to showcase transcendence, the Mythos uses this.
This argument has gone around in circles, and I keep having to mention the same points over and over again, and I'm getting tired of having to repeat myself.
- 85
- 9
Should Ultimate Spirit high 1-A or 0?
- 995
- 233
According to Warren it is only above baseline. But I've spoiled a lot of things in the novel (typed cntr+f again) and it's really is trascendental. So... neither does he nor me gonna think otherwise about the results. I really like the book (can't finish it yet because of a problem on my left eye... gonna see neurosurgeon soon) but Reinhard is really strong. So does The Maker.
- 8,427
- 3,144
I don't think that Star Maker is only just above baseline, I believe in both forms he is a handful of levels of transcendence above baseline 1-A, he's just no where near Reinhard's level of transcendence.BleedingPeach said:
- 75
- 34
Warrent i dont really understand your point, it´s already proven that Star maker is infinitetly trascendent, each cosmos is not just bigger than the other, but more complex and incomprehensible than the last; It is actuallya a higher type of trascendence than the one presented in masadaverse. Because as i said before, masada trascendence is limited to law authority which is the raw power in the series, Hajun is not ukwnown to the rest of hadou gods, he is not incomprehensible, he just have infinite taikyou which means he cant be touched and he can do whatever the **** he wants.
- 8,427
- 3,144
No, it is not proven in the slightest. Have you even read anything I wrote in this thread? I've been begging for some real proof of infinite transcendence this entire time.ShrektheHandsomeOgre said:
Each succeeding cosmos isn't considered "incomprehensible" to the preceding one. Where did you get this nonsense? According to a quote from the book,
"each cosmos was more complex, and in a sense more voluminous than the last"
And according to another quote from the book given to us by Sandman31, each cosmos is less and less comprehensible than the last to the person viewing each cosmos, not that each is completely incomprehensible. As shown here,
"Cosmos after cosmos issued from his fervent imagination, each one with a distinctive spirit infinitely diversified, each in its fullest attainment more awakened than the last; but each one less comprehensible to me."
This signifies that the with each succeeding cosmos, the state of being of said cosmoses becomes that much closer to reaching a single level of transcendence. With each new cosmos, the being viewing loses his understanding on how to comprehend what he's viewing. It slowly reaches a level of incomprehensibility, which proves my viewpoint is correct.
The difference in the complexity of the first cosmos to the last is not infinite levels of transcendence or incomprehensibility, it's only a single one.
As I explained a long while ago using Taikyoku as a simple measuring point, here:
"I believe Kamunagara brings up a fair point. Each cosmos is an undefinably greater than the last. Each creation in the infinite cosmoses that are created is not infinitely greater or transcendent of the previous creations, just an indeterminately larger and greater.
I'll explain using Taikyoku values because of their simplistic way of measuring transcendence.
A difference of one Taikyoku value is a difference of transcendence. A person with a Taikyoku value of 2 transcends a person with a value of 1. It is as simple as that.
Infinite Transcendence would be like this:
1--oo One to Infinity.
If each creation is an unknowable amount greater than the last then it would be something along the lines of this:
1.1, 1.01, 1.001, 1.0001, ..., 2.0 One to Two.
It's not that each Cosmos is transcendent of one another, it that with there being an infinite hierarchy of larger and larger cosmoses, it would equal a level of transcendence, not an infinite amount of them.
What makes it an infinite transcendence?"
And what are you saying?
That not how transcendence works. You can't have a "higher type" of transcendence, you can only have a higher level of transcendence. Transcendence is transcendence. There aren't types.
And the difference between 1 Taikyoku is a difference of transcendence.
Like with Umineko's layers, a difference between Taikyoku (or layers from Umineko) makes the higher being look at the lower being as literally nothing, the lower being is basically fiction to the higher one. Even increasing your power infinitely by gathering infinite copies of yourself means absolutely nothing to a higher level god in Shinza Bansho.
And Hajun is definitely untouchable to every other character, he considers the other gods to be nothing more than "mere noise" that must be exterminated.
I don't know what makes you insinuate that Masada characters don't have proper transcendence, or that Star Maker has infinite transcendence. Whatever the reason is, it is inaccurate and disingenuous to say such folly.
- 1,484
- 169
To the best of my knowledge, Gan from the Dark Tower contains infinite levels of the Tower where every next level is incomprehensible to even gods of the lower level.
- 24,183
- 3,938
...What does the dark tower have to do with this?
- 1,484
- 169
Just some off-topicZacharyGrossman273 said:
- 75
- 34
Yes, what i really mean is that each cosmos is "less comprehensible" not "incomprehensible".
"That not how transcendence works. You can't have a "higher type" of transcendence, you can only have a higher level of transcendence" Look, my english is not very good but im going to try to explain my point:
"Transcendence is the act of rising above something to a superior state."
What i mean with higher type of trascendence is that each level of trascendence from one verse, seems superior to another level of trascendence from another verse.
So, for example, using Mythos:
Second gate incomprehensible to first gate, third gate incomprehensible to second gate.
That trascendence is clearly superior to the one from masadaverse which only seem to implies a rising on authority from the hadou´s god law. And even a being with infinite takyoku like Hajun has many weakness and was eventually defeated by weaker gods; That trascendence is totally inferior.
So yes, as trascendence just implies the superiority of state, not what conditions, what terms, or how we define that superiority, for that reason, there are different types of trascendence.
"This signifies that the with each succeeding cosmos, the state of being of said cosmoses becomes that much closer to reaching a single level of transcendence. With each new cosmos, the being viewing loses his understanding on how to comprehend what he's viewing. It slowly reaches a level of incomprehensibility, which proves my viewpoint is correct."
Lol no, doesnt prove your point in any way, because "incomprehensibility" is not a requirement to define any level of trascendence, but is a plus.
"That not how transcendence works. You can't have a "higher type" of transcendence, you can only have a higher level of transcendence" Look, my english is not very good but im going to try to explain my point:
"Transcendence is the act of rising above something to a superior state."
What i mean with higher type of trascendence is that each level of trascendence from one verse, seems superior to another level of trascendence from another verse.
So, for example, using Mythos:
Second gate incomprehensible to first gate, third gate incomprehensible to second gate.
That trascendence is clearly superior to the one from masadaverse which only seem to implies a rising on authority from the hadou´s god law. And even a being with infinite takyoku like Hajun has many weakness and was eventually defeated by weaker gods; That trascendence is totally inferior.
So yes, as trascendence just implies the superiority of state, not what conditions, what terms, or how we define that superiority, for that reason, there are different types of trascendence.
"This signifies that the with each succeeding cosmos, the state of being of said cosmoses becomes that much closer to reaching a single level of transcendence. With each new cosmos, the being viewing loses his understanding on how to comprehend what he's viewing. It slowly reaches a level of incomprehensibility, which proves my viewpoint is correct."
Lol no, doesnt prove your point in any way, because "incomprehensibility" is not a requirement to define any level of trascendence, but is a plus.
- 75
- 34
As for the proof, with each cosmos being not just bigger but more complex in nature, in function and in totality it implies a form of trascendence, even if it´s not used the word.
- 8,427
- 3,144
@ShrektheHandsomeOgre
>Yes, what i really mean is that each cosmos is "less comprehensible" not "incomprehensible".
Less and less comprehensible =/= incomprehensible
>What i mean with higher type of transcendence is that each level of transcendence from one verse, seems superior to another level of transcendence from another verse.
So, for example, using Mythos:
Second gate incomprehensible to first gate, third gate incomprehensible to second gate.
This is the same difference between a difference of Taikyoku, as I, and others, have explained many times.
>That transcendence is clearly superior to the one from masadaverse which only seem to implies a rising on authority from the hadou's god law. And even a being with infinite taikyoku like Hajun has many weakness and was eventually defeated by weaker gods; That transcendence is totally inferior.
Again, no transcendence is "superior" other transcendence, that's not how that works.
And your point on Hajun being defeated and having weaknesses is completely ludicrous. Do you know anything about Kajiri Kamui Kagura? You do know that Hajun was depowered right? He lost his Immeasurable Taikyoku count when he lost his Tumor.
And Hajun is not omnipotent, he is allowed to have flaws and still be at such a level of power, it's because of those flaws that Hajun is not able to be High 1-A, as stated on his profile.
>So yes, as transcendence just implies the superiority of state, not what conditions, what terms, or how we define that superiority, for that reason, there are different types of transcendence.
No, what you are arguing is that Taikyoku doesn't have a difference of transcendence, not that it has a "lower form of transcendence".
Which is inaccurate, it does have a difference of transcendence, we have been over this.
>"This signifies that the with each succeeding cosmos, the state of being of said cosmoses becomes that much closer to reaching a single level of transcendence. With each new cosmos, the being viewing loses his understanding on how to comprehend what he's viewing. It slowly reaches a level of incomprehensibility, which proves my viewpoint is correct."
Lol no, doesn't prove your point in any way, because "incomprehensibility" is not a requirement to define any level of transcendence, but is a plus.
It proves my point exactly. The Cosmoses are not described as "more and more incomprehensible than the last". They're described as becoming more and more incomprehensible in their totality, not individually. Which implies that from the first cosmos to the last is a single level of transcendence, which is my argument.
>As for the proof, with each cosmos being not just bigger but more complex in nature, in function and in totality it implies a form of transcendence, even if it´s not used the word.
Yes, it implies transcendence, but only a single level of transcendence, not infinite levels. Each cosmos becomes more voluminous and more complex by an indeterminable amount, not an infinite amount.
>Yes, what i really mean is that each cosmos is "less comprehensible" not "incomprehensible".
Less and less comprehensible =/= incomprehensible
>What i mean with higher type of transcendence is that each level of transcendence from one verse, seems superior to another level of transcendence from another verse.
So, for example, using Mythos:
Second gate incomprehensible to first gate, third gate incomprehensible to second gate.
This is the same difference between a difference of Taikyoku, as I, and others, have explained many times.
>That transcendence is clearly superior to the one from masadaverse which only seem to implies a rising on authority from the hadou's god law. And even a being with infinite taikyoku like Hajun has many weakness and was eventually defeated by weaker gods; That transcendence is totally inferior.
Again, no transcendence is "superior" other transcendence, that's not how that works.
And your point on Hajun being defeated and having weaknesses is completely ludicrous. Do you know anything about Kajiri Kamui Kagura? You do know that Hajun was depowered right? He lost his Immeasurable Taikyoku count when he lost his Tumor.
And Hajun is not omnipotent, he is allowed to have flaws and still be at such a level of power, it's because of those flaws that Hajun is not able to be High 1-A, as stated on his profile.
>So yes, as transcendence just implies the superiority of state, not what conditions, what terms, or how we define that superiority, for that reason, there are different types of transcendence.
No, what you are arguing is that Taikyoku doesn't have a difference of transcendence, not that it has a "lower form of transcendence".
Which is inaccurate, it does have a difference of transcendence, we have been over this.
>"This signifies that the with each succeeding cosmos, the state of being of said cosmoses becomes that much closer to reaching a single level of transcendence. With each new cosmos, the being viewing loses his understanding on how to comprehend what he's viewing. It slowly reaches a level of incomprehensibility, which proves my viewpoint is correct."
Lol no, doesn't prove your point in any way, because "incomprehensibility" is not a requirement to define any level of transcendence, but is a plus.
It proves my point exactly. The Cosmoses are not described as "more and more incomprehensible than the last". They're described as becoming more and more incomprehensible in their totality, not individually. Which implies that from the first cosmos to the last is a single level of transcendence, which is my argument.
>As for the proof, with each cosmos being not just bigger but more complex in nature, in function and in totality it implies a form of transcendence, even if it´s not used the word.
Yes, it implies transcendence, but only a single level of transcendence, not infinite levels. Each cosmos becomes more voluminous and more complex by an indeterminable amount, not an infinite amount.
- 75
- 34
Well, this one is easy Warren.
"Less and less comprehensible =/= incomprehensible"
Yes. please read what i said.
"Again, no transcendence is "superior" other transcendence, that's not how that works. "
Then you should offer a counterargument instead of just affirming.
"And your point on Hajun being defeated and having weaknesses is completely ludicrous. Do you know anything about Kajiri Kamui Kagura? You do know that Hajun was depowered right? He lost his Immeasurable Taikyoku count when he lost his Tumor." Yes... That´s a ******* pretty important and stupid weakness to a being who supposedly has infinite levels of trascendence. Just the fact that Hajun is still not omniscient and has that type of weakness even at infinite levels of takyoku gives you a hint that takyoku is not the greatest deal of trascendence when compared to the mythos.
"It proves my point exactly. The Cosmoses are not described as "more and more incomprehensible than the last". They're described as becoming more and more incomprehensible in their totality, not individually. Which implies that from the first cosmos to the last is a single level of transcendence, which is my argument." Warrent, you didn´t read what i said, incomprehensibility is not a requirement for trascendence.
"This is the same difference between a difference of Taikyoku, as I, and others, have explained many times. " IT´S NOT! and this is pretty easy to see, if you think it is, please provide from quotes that defend your position, because from feats we all see that Hajun is not as trascendental as the outer gods.
"Less and less comprehensible =/= incomprehensible"
Yes. please read what i said.
"Again, no transcendence is "superior" other transcendence, that's not how that works. "
Then you should offer a counterargument instead of just affirming.
"And your point on Hajun being defeated and having weaknesses is completely ludicrous. Do you know anything about Kajiri Kamui Kagura? You do know that Hajun was depowered right? He lost his Immeasurable Taikyoku count when he lost his Tumor." Yes... That´s a ******* pretty important and stupid weakness to a being who supposedly has infinite levels of trascendence. Just the fact that Hajun is still not omniscient and has that type of weakness even at infinite levels of takyoku gives you a hint that takyoku is not the greatest deal of trascendence when compared to the mythos.
"It proves my point exactly. The Cosmoses are not described as "more and more incomprehensible than the last". They're described as becoming more and more incomprehensible in their totality, not individually. Which implies that from the first cosmos to the last is a single level of transcendence, which is my argument." Warrent, you didn´t read what i said, incomprehensibility is not a requirement for trascendence.
"This is the same difference between a difference of Taikyoku, as I, and others, have explained many times. " IT´S NOT! and this is pretty easy to see, if you think it is, please provide from quotes that defend your position, because from feats we all see that Hajun is not as trascendental as the outer gods.
- 75
- 34
"Yes, it implies transcendence, but only a single level of transcendence, not infinite levels. Each cosmos becomes more voluminous and more complex by an indeterminable amount, not an infinite amount. "
Well, if each cosmos would become infinitetly more complex and incomprehensible then we would be not talking about a single level of trascendence, i would say that just that step of trascendence between one cosmos and the other would be way superior to Hajun´s infinite takyoku, for the reasons mentioned above.
Well, if each cosmos would become infinitetly more complex and incomprehensible then we would be not talking about a single level of trascendence, i would say that just that step of trascendence between one cosmos and the other would be way superior to Hajun´s infinite takyoku, for the reasons mentioned above.
- 8,427
- 3,144
1.ShrektheHandsomeOgre said:
You haven't made an argument.
That's like saying 2+2 =10, and I tell that's wrong, and you tell me to counter your argument on why it is wrong.
It's not an argument, you just apparently don't understand how this concept works.
2.
Just because you think something is stupid, doesn't make your argument right. You're arguing from your emotions and desires instead of the facts and logic. "That's a stupid weakness, so he can't be that strong." is not an argument.
And what? Omniscience isn't even a requirement for Tier 0, let alone Tier 1-A.
3.
I read your point, it contridicary.
Yes, the word "incomprehensible" doesn't need to be used for demonstrating transcendence, I agree with this. I mention a Reality-Fiction difference being a textbook showcasing of transcendence in fiction, mentioning Umineko as an example. I know this.
However, you keep on mentioning how the growing "complexity" of each cosmos is the proof of Star Maker's infinite transcendence.
"As for the proof, with each cosmos being not just bigger but more complex in nature, in function and in totality it implies a form of transcendence, even if it´s not used the word."
"Warrent i dont really understand your point, it´s already proven that Star maker is infinitetly trascendent, each cosmos is not just bigger than the other, but more complex and incomprehensible than the last"
You're being hypocritical.
4.
It is.
I've already explained that a difference in Taikyoku is a difference beyond infinity, where even if you have infinite versions of yourself increasing your fighting strength infinitely, it means nothing to a god with higher Taikyoku.
As Hajun said, the lower gods were nothing but "mere noise".
The difference is so large that lower leveled gods are practically non-existent to a higher level god.
That's transcendence.
And having weaknesses being exploited to lessen the power of a higher being is a perfectly logical thing, that happens all the time in fiction.
It doesn't disprove Taikyoku as being a transcendent difference.
If you want quotes from the source then you are going to need to ask a bigger Masada fan because I don't own KKK, I haven't played KKK, and I don't speak Japanese.
I just heard the explanations and saw the quotes from them, and I am retelling what I remembered was told to me.
Go ask them and stop derailing this thread about your lack of understanding Masada's cosmology.
Try and prove that Star Maker has infinite levels of transcendence above baseline 1-A like you say he has because all I'm getting from you and everyone else are arguments that I've debunked countless times.
The Infinite Hierarchy of Cosmoses are not infinite levels of transcendence above baseline 1-A, there are more comparable to a single level, as I have painstakingly explained time and time again.
I'm tired of repeating myself over and over for people who just don't want to listen.
- 8,427
- 3,144
Are you saying that a single level of transcendence is greater than Hajun?ShrektheHandsomeOgre said:
This is a disgusting level of downplaying.
But go ahead, I dare you, make a CRT about Shinza Bansho, lowering Hajun's level of transcendence from immeasurable and infinitely raising to less than a single one.
See how that plays out.
- 75
- 34
1.
Yes i made and argument about the difference in trascendence between one verse an another and why just using the word "trascendence" doesn´t mean it´s equal in all cases.
As every step from each cosmos involves a incremental complexity from all aspects, it is a form of trascendence.
2
"Just because you think something is stupid, doesn't make your argument right. You're arguing from your emotions and desires instead of the facts and logic. "That's a stupid weakness, so he can't be that strong." is not an argument."
It is an argument, is one of the reasons Hajun is not High 1-A, is called feats, you can use the word "infinite trascendence" but if he can lose in such a matter then he get´s down in capabilities.
3.
"As for the proof, with each cosmos being not just bigger but more complex in nature, in function and in totality it implies a form of transcendence, even if it´s not used the word."
"Warrent i dont really understand your point, it´s already proven that Star maker is infinitetly trascendent, each cosmos is not just bigger than the other, but more complex and incomprehensible than the last"
"You're being hypocritical."
Learn to read, i said i mispelled the second time, i really mean "less comprehensible"
"Yes, what i really mean is that each cosmos is "less comprehensible" not "incomprehensible".
This is entertaining
Yes i made and argument about the difference in trascendence between one verse an another and why just using the word "trascendence" doesn´t mean it´s equal in all cases.
As every step from each cosmos involves a incremental complexity from all aspects, it is a form of trascendence.
2
"Just because you think something is stupid, doesn't make your argument right. You're arguing from your emotions and desires instead of the facts and logic. "That's a stupid weakness, so he can't be that strong." is not an argument."
It is an argument, is one of the reasons Hajun is not High 1-A, is called feats, you can use the word "infinite trascendence" but if he can lose in such a matter then he get´s down in capabilities.
3.
"As for the proof, with each cosmos being not just bigger but more complex in nature, in function and in totality it implies a form of transcendence, even if it´s not used the word."
"Warrent i dont really understand your point, it´s already proven that Star maker is infinitetly trascendent, each cosmos is not just bigger than the other, but more complex and incomprehensible than the last"
"You're being hypocritical."
Learn to read, i said i mispelled the second time, i really mean "less comprehensible"
"Yes, what i really mean is that each cosmos is "less comprehensible" not "incomprehensible".
This is entertaining
- 75
- 34
"And what? Omniscience isn't even a requirement for Tier 0, let alone Tier 1-A."
Is already known that some Tier 1-A can be high 1-A from another verse or even tier 0. But this is not the point, the points is that Hajun is not infinitetly trascendental in all aspects, if he were, he practically would have no weaknesses.
"The difference is so large that lower leveled gods are practically non-existent to a higher level god"
Bullshit.
Is already known that some Tier 1-A can be high 1-A from another verse or even tier 0. But this is not the point, the points is that Hajun is not infinitetly trascendental in all aspects, if he were, he practically would have no weaknesses.
"The difference is so large that lower leveled gods are practically non-existent to a higher level god"
Bullshit.
- 75
- 34
Warrent, instead of saying "You are emotional, you are an hypocrite, you dont listen" please provide reasons of why trascendence is the same in all cases and why is necessary to be "incomprehensible" to effectively trascend something. Because lol, im sorry but 1 takyoku difference doesn´t make a hadou god incomprehensible to another as we saw how they interact.
- 8,427
- 3,144
1.ShrektheHandsomeOgre said:
What does that have to do with omniscience?
And no, if your High 1-A, you are greater than all 1-A's from any verse. That's not how that works, they are different tiers.
2.
It's not bullshit, it has been explained to you a near infinite amount of times.
If you don't want to believe it, that's fine, but stop sprouting your disingenuous words about how this franchise works, when you know absolutely nothing about.
- 75
- 34
1. Intelligence and knowledge is one of the facets of a being. A being that is infinite trascendental in every way is therefore omniscient.
And yes, some tier 0 are put there because the have no equal in the verse and are absolutly boundless in their respective verse, but by feats they could be wrecked by some High 1-A from another verse like Mythos. This was already argued by Aeyu some time ago.
2.
It is bullshit man, even Ren could use his law to escape from Hajun. Yes, hajun was weakened at this point but still may levels of takyoku above him.
And yes, some tier 0 are put there because the have no equal in the verse and are absolutly boundless in their respective verse, but by feats they could be wrecked by some High 1-A from another verse like Mythos. This was already argued by Aeyu some time ago.
2.
It is bullshit man, even Ren could use his law to escape from Hajun. Yes, hajun was weakened at this point but still may levels of takyoku above him.
- 75
- 34
"Are you saying that a single level of transcendence is greater than Hajun?"
Not im not saying that, im saying: That statement would count as infinite trascendence between one cosmos and another, not just one level of trascendence.
Not im not saying that, im saying: That statement would count as infinite trascendence between one cosmos and another, not just one level of trascendence.
- 8,427
- 3,144
1. You are being emotional, hypocrtical, and you are not listening to a word I'm saying.ShrektheHandsomeOgre said:
I quote each moment in my last comment and I refuse to do so again.
2.
Transcendence is, on Webster's dictionary, described as:
Transcendent
adjective
tran┬Àscen┬Àdent | \tran(t)-╦êsen-dənt \
Definition of transcendent
1: Exceeding usual limits; Extending or lying beyond the limits of ordinary experience
2: Being beyond comprehension
3: Transcending the universe or material existence
4: Universally applicable or significant
You can't have a greater "type" of transcendence, you only have a higher "level" of transcendence.
You can't have a greater version of ascending beyond someone or thing, you can just ascend even further beyond that thing or being.
Transcending someone by a single spatial-temporal dimension is the same act as transcending someone on an outerversal level.
It's the level of transcendence and power that is different, not the act of transcending.
And I already told you that you don't need to be defined as incomprehensible to be transcendent of someone, again you are not listening to me, so I'll quote myself:
"Yes, the word "incomprehensible" doesn't need to be used for demonstrating transcendence, I agree with this. I mention a Reality-Fiction difference being a textbook showcasing of transcendence in fiction, mentioning Umineko as an example. I know this."
You don't even know what you are arguing. You are trying to say that Shinza Bansho doesn't have transcendence in its franchise. Not that it has a "lesser type" of transcendence that. That is what your words mean, but you aren't defining it as such.
You are wrong on that notion, as I have explained again and again.
Go ahead with that CRT downgrading Shinza Bansho to less than a single level of transcendence, I can't wait to see how much of a clusterfuck that's going to be.
- Status
