Regarding Tier Rating-Specific Categories

[Starter_Pack]

I think the "Tier 9" and whatever categories can be kept, I see no reason they shouldn't co-exist. But I do agree this is a pretty important revision.

This, actually. I don't see any reason why we can't have the specific categories for the exact tiers, while at the same having the general broad stroke categories that we have currently.

In this way, we don't have to remove or adjust anything. We would simply need to add it to the profiles.

 

[KLOL506]

This, actually. I don't see any reason why we can't have the specific categories for the exact tiers, while at the same having the general broad stroke categories that we have currently.

In this way, we don't have to remove or adjust anything. We would simply need to add it to the profiles.

Pretty much this. It doesn't even have to be a "You have to do this now and fast" revision, it can literally be done whenever people want to add characters to their designated Tier category. There's like, only 55 tiers in total from what I've seen so you'd only need to put a little bit of elbow grease in making the category pages themselves (But I'm pretty sure one or two people can do it), but adding the categories afterwards shouldn't be an issue.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I suggested this in the past, so I'm obviously in agreement with it.
If we're at it, can we also add categories for speed ratings?
Just imagine you make a new character profile and then you easily create a dynamic page list with basically every character on the wiki that would make a viable matchup according to SBA on it. We might even get matches that are not speed equal for once.

 

[The_Impress]

This, actually. I don't see any reason why we can't have the specific categories for the exact tiers, while at the same having the general broad stroke categories that we have currently.

In this way, we don't have to remove or adjust anything. We would simply need to add it to the profiles.

I'd be completely fine for this

If we're at it, can we also add categories for speed ratings?
Just imagine you make a new character profile and then you easily create a dynamic page list with basically every character on the wiki that would make a viable matchup according to SBA on it. We might even get matches that are not speed equal for once.

Aren't are speed ratings that underdeveloped that you can essentially blitz someone despite being in the same rating? Either way I think this is a separate revision project so a different thread should be made for it

 

[DontTalkDT]

Aren't are speed ratings that underdeveloped that you can essentially blitz someone despite being in the same rating? Either way I think this is a separate revision project so a different thread should be made for it

I mean, yeah, same way you can stomp someone in the same AP tier by strength alone. It's still useful. But I suppose if this gets accepted I can make a separate thread on the speed categories.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm not too convinced on Speed categories being necessary but it'd make for some interesting stats at least. Also, obviously we won't need a "0" category when we have "Tier 0" already, right?

 

[KLOL506]

Also, obviously we won't need a "0" category when we have "Tier 0" already, right?

LOL true

 

[KLOL506]

I mean, yeah, same way you can stomp someone in the same AP tier by strength alone. It's still useful. But I suppose if this gets accepted I can make a separate thread on the speed categories.

Me personally I don't think Speed tiers are diverse enough to qualify for categories as much as Tiers are.

 

[Armorchompy]

Me personally I don't think Speed tiers are diverse enough to qualify for categories as much as Tiers are.

I don't necessarily disagree but I like statistics and I'd love to see it. But let's focus on AP Tiers RN

 

[Antvasima]

I very extremely strongly oppose this, as it is beyond our resources to update over 25,000 pages in this manner, and it would turn my constant edit-patrolling work every day into a nightmare, as I would constantly have to make corrections to all statistics-changing edits that do not update the tier categories at the same time, on top of my already overwhelming workload, and all for at best minimal, and at worst negative gain, as our wiki navigation bar could not create an easy overview for the tiers to our visitors if this passed through.

Other wiki revisions projects are also far more important than, and should be prioritised over, this one, such as the remaining tiering revision changes, and the infobox-additions that could drastically increase our visitor statistics.

This suggestion has been rejected over and over in the past, and we should probably get a discussion rule against it at this point, as I consider it very destructive.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, there are many more things that should be applied before this. I think Ant has a better idea than I do, but moving all respect threads to blog posts, updating our standards on profile pictures & using fanart are two things I consider more important than this. And they're both sorely needing members to apply them.

Agreed.

 

[KLOL506]

Well, we tried.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Antvasima was basically saying what I thought he was going to say.

I agree with the premise and idea; it definitely makes it a lot easier to find Vs match ups towards a specific obscure character. But, in practice; it's a lot of work for little to no payoff. It's not worth tackling an entire empire with no more than a handful of allies just to have an extra penny in your paycheck. Adding speed ratings in the categories would also be pretty much the same thing.

 

[Antvasima]

there are more bureaucrats on thsi wiki than just ant smh

Yeah, but I am the one who has devoted by far the most time to actually keep the community running properly, including devoting lots of extra time backstage for at least 6 months to getting this forum set up, and would have to deal with patrolling a constantly spammed recent changes page in the wiki for a prolonged period of time due to this, for very limited actual benefit to the wiki structure, so I much prefer to save the workload for these types of projects to ones that are genuinely important, especially as we haven't even managed to finish some important much smaller projects yet.

 

[Antvasima]

Isn't the fanart thing like kind of settled? If the verse has no official art, just use the fanart and credit the artist.

Yes, but I need to get the time and focus to set up an ongoing wiki management thread for the purpose of adding artist credits.

 

[Antvasima]

I remember Ant in particular keeping a list of upcoming and outstanding site-wide revisions.

I have a list of unfinished important wiki revision thread and another for major projects that we need to get done at some point, yes.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with the premise and idea; it definitely makes it a lot easier to find Vs match ups towards a specific obscure character. But, in practice; it's a lot of work for little to no payoff. It's not worth tackling an entire empire with no more than a handful of allies just to have an extra penny in your paycheck. Adding speed ratings in the categories would also be pretty much the same thing.

Yes, if we could wave a magic wand and have this instantly done, without me having to near work myself to death with keeping up with the recent changes page for at least a few weeks, and likely longer, that would be one thing, but at the end of the day, we cannot, and I am the one who would have to exert myself the most to ensure that this would get done properly.

In addition, this is primarily an indexing wiki. Our main goal is to provide accuracy, organisation, reliability, and quality for our visitors. Making it easier for our members to find good matchup fights is a very distant priority. The option is there for them to have fun. That is all.

 

[Damage3245]

"Destructive" is such an over-exaggeration, I have to say.

If your preference is for this not to be introduced immediately or soon, then at least slot it into the overall plan so that it is something we can eventually work towards in the future.

I'd be fine with sorting out every other major wiki revision before this gets handled, but I don't want a rule being created to stop it being implemented forever.

 

[Antvasima]

It would be very destructive for my health and would create too many categories to properly fit into the wiki navigation bar, as it is full of other important areas as well.

 

[Teezar]

Yeah, but I am the one who has devoted by far the most time to actually keep the community running properly, including devoting lots of extra time backstage for at least 6 months to getting this forum set up, and would have to deal with patrolling a constantly spammed recent changes page in the wiki for a prolonged period of time due to this, for very limited actual benefit to the wiki structure, so I much prefer to save the workload for these types of projects to ones that are genuinely important, especially as we haven't even managed to finish some important much smaller projects yet.

This is actually true.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Perhaps destructive may not be the best word, but it would definitely be a burnout inducing project.

 

[Damage3245]

It would be very destructive for my health and would create too many categories to properly fit into the wiki navigation bar, as it is full of other important areas as well.

The wiki navigation bar is up to us to customize. I don't know how exactly you're envisioning it would be, but it wouldn't be the only way that it would work. There are always workarounds.

And as for your own health Antvasima, I know your top concern is to maintain the wiki but too many times I've seen suggestions that could actually improve the wiki be rejected just because you don't want to over-work yourself. There are solutions to that too beyond just rejecting it forever.

As I said, the best idea is to slot it into the future plans for the wiki, have a proper discussion in the future for options for implementation, design, layout, etc. Come up with a plan that can be manageable instead of assuming the worst and expecting yourself to be destroyed because of it.

Because with that kind of attitude, nothing new would ever get added to the wiki because anything more than what you're currently doing is "too much work".

 

[Antvasima]

I am willing to allow genuinely beneficial wiki revision projects, but I am not willing to devote enormous community resources that are better spent elsewhere, and nearly work myself to death for a prolonged period of time, for at best minimal gain. That is all.

I suppose that we could place this project in my wiki to-do list though, but it would likely at least have to wait a few years, until we have other more important projects handled.

Our big concerns in that regard at the moment are if Fandom decides to not allow our old customised code for galleries, after their recent system changes; that we have to insert infoboxes to increase our audience and mobile viewing compatibility; and that we need to vastly expand the use of source references in our pages in preparation for when Imgur eventually likely has to purge its archives of manga and comic book scans, due to harsher copyright laws.

 

[KingTempest]

If we're at it, can we also add categories for speed ratings?
Just imagine you make a new character profile and then you easily create a dynamic page list with basically every character on the wiki that would make a viable matchup according to SBA on it. We might even get matches that are not speed equal for once.

I like this idea.
DPL with a specific AP tier and speed, that’d be nice

 

[AKM sama]

I don't think this is something that can be done by a bot.

 

[Antvasima]

I like this idea.
DPL with a specific AP tier and speed, that’d be nice

I really like DontTalk. He is brilliant, rational, unbiased, extremely loyal and reliable, and with the exception of myself, he has likely been the most important member for building the fundamental structure of this community over the years, but I am not sure if that is practically workable, at least right now. I suppose that it could be placed in the to-do list as well though.

 

[Damage3245]

I suppose that we could place this project in my wiki to-do list though, but it would likely at least have to wait a few years, until we have other more important projects handled.

That's a fine solution.

 

[KLOL506]

I don't think this is something that can be done by a bot.

Well ****.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

I agree

 

[AKM sama]

I don't think this is something that can be done by a bot.

It's better to ask @Promestein @Elizhaa and @Amelia_Lonelyheart too about this, I guess. Maybe they might have some idea by which it could work.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think this is something that can be done by a bot.

Technically it can be done via bot, but it would also require a lot of prep work to be set-up.

 

[Antvasima]

That's a fine solution.

Okay. I have added both the specific tier categories addition project and the one for speed levels to my wiki to-do list.

 

[Promestein]

Uhhh I think it could be done it'd just be tedious and imperfect even with a bot.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

To be entirely fair, this isn't exactly a complicated process, at least for a person.

We already have the tiers for a character written clearly and plainly in a specific area that exists for that purpose. Even if it had to be done entirely by hand, it would only take seconds per page.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Literally have this like the citation revision, where users just apply it over time
No uber load on anyone that way, plus as mentioned this process is really easy unless we gonna for some reason start caring about category order lol

 

[Armorchompy]

yeah any casual user can contribute to this at least a little bit

 

[Eficiente]

Idk what the comments above say but I agree. We can have some profiles with it but not all and let people add them at a rate that they would be comfortable, like if this was some obscure Category describing a personality/profession/outfit a character has; not a serious priority.

Also, is there any way to tag categories together to find characters? I know there was before but that it got lost afair.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Also, is there any way to tag categories together to find characters? I know there was before but that it got lost afair.

If I understand correctly you're looking for this. Just post it on a page, click preview and don't save.

 

[Agnaa]

It would be very destructive for my health and would create too many categories to properly fit into the wiki navigation bar, as it is full of other important areas as well.

Some people suggested also leaving the current broad tier rating categories, which would resolve the issue of there being too many categories for the wiki navigation bar.

 

[Bobsican]

I'm just going to mention that this workload could be merged for when we move all pages on using infoboxes, after all, a template can be done that takes into account the listed tiers of a character and automatically adds their respective categories, I've seen Bulbapedia, for example, have a template that automatically adds categories to a page based on the data that's specifically added to complement the template, for instance, so we could do a work of two for the price of one.
Such categories are also removed automatically if the tier it's inherited from is removed in the respective profile, so it would also help having consistency in general and less work for content mods in the long run.