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Regarding Cross Verse Scaling

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This level of scrutiny is ridiculous. ONE has stated twice that these characters are on par, and it has been confirmed that Garou will be getting comparable feats in the manga. They are on par. End of.

Every statement on this site should be disregarded by your standards, as you won't even accept a statement that has been reaffirmed and will be supported by feats soon. No statement would hold up under such almost denial-like scrutiny.
 
If they are going to get comparable feats in the manga when the final battle against Garou happens, then we just wait untill it actually happens and upgrade him again.
 
And we're discussing why the statement is unreliable. And your counter argument being "this is ridiculous" doesn't disprove the flaw I pointed with the main statement.

We have lots of statements we disregard until we get the feats. I don't know why this has to be the exception that not only set a bad precedet because people will say ANY statement should be taken at face value but also set ANOTHER precedent for cross scaling.
 
What's even the point? The statement is true. It's always been true. As I've said over and over, they don't even need comparable feats for the statement to be valid. But the fact that they will have comparable feats now makes it undoubtedly valid.
 
The Calaca said:
And we're discussing why the statement is unreliable. And your counter argument being "this is ridiculous" doesn't disprove the flaw I pointed with the main statement.
We have lots of statements we disregard until we get the feats. I don't know why this has to be the exception that not only set a bad precedet because people will say ANY statement should be taken at face value but also set ANOTHER precedent for cross scaling.
Click to expand...
Martial artists in OPM can redirect energy attacks. Suiryu has done it to Choze, and Bang and Bomb have done it to Rover. And Garou is easily the most skilled and powerful martial artist. CSRC isn't some obvious decision maker here. Especially when ONE himself has confirmed it isn't.

We don't automatically need two characters to have comparable feats if they're reliably stated to be on par. Again, the top tiers in Dragon Ball are scaled from such a statement among many other examples. But Garou will be getting comparable feats as well.
 
ONE's statements were made after the Murata redraw and ONE looks over it. ONE not knowing who would win doesn't matter, they are both comparable based off their fight with Saitama anyways. Murata acknowledged ONE's statement about Garou being equal to Boros as true for the Manga adaptation. They would scale to each other regardless.

Make a webcomic tab for Boros and have monster Garou scale down to whatever tier webcomic Boros would be to fix it.

When Garou vs Saitama happens then make a new key or page to seperate webcomic boros and garou from the current profiles.
 
>Author states twice that John's favorite color is blue.

"Nope. John's favorite color is not blue unless the author actually draws a scene in which John's shows that his favorite color is blue. The author doesn't really know that John's favorite color is blue unless he draws such a scene. For now, the author has no idea what his character's favorite color is."

>Author states that he's going to draw a scene later in which John's favorite color is shown to be blue.

"No. John's favorite color still isn't blue until that scene eventually comes. Until then, John's favorite color is not blue and we shouldn't act as if it's blue."

That's basically what this is right now.
 
Look, the thing is that you're now defending the point because two dudes appeared and said "hey, why should we change" when we agreed that if one of the statements is dismissed, the other should as well. I'm not against Garou scaling to Boros but Mob scaling to Tatsumaki and, ironically, Tatsumaki scaling to Mob at the same time.

I still think the statement is pretty vague nd shouldn't be considered. The lack of detail and the fact that the only thing ONE acknowledged was the martial art advantage only tells me he could have considered CSRC but he didn't fr some odd reason.

Garou and Boros have much more grounds for scaling that the other two where one is scaled because "his feat was casual" (somethig that someone told me isn't true, even) which gives room for the NLF to support the scaling even if the difference is in the hundreds/thousands of times.

So yeah, another ONE prota victim of NLF.
 
My point is that both statements are of identical nature and they're valid.

ONE has outright said that they are equal and it's been confirmed that they will have comparable feats. There is nothing vague about that. And again, martial artists can redirect energy attacks in OPM. So if ONE doesn't think CSRC is the be all end all that's perfectly reasonable in this context.

As it's been said over and over, X does not need comparable feats to Y in order for them to be powerscaled if they are stated to be on par. There is nothing that contradicts ONE's statement of Mob being on par with Tatsu, outside of the fact that him merely walking wasn't as strong as an actual attack from Tatsumaki. Therefore, it is valid. Just like Jiren being stronger than Infinite Zamasu is valid even when he have anywhere remotely close to as good of a feat as IZ's casual one even when going all out. Even if there wasn't the confirmation of Garou getting comparable feats, the statement would still be deemed valid as nothing contradicts it.
 
ONE's statement was pretty clear cut. Garou pre-monsterfication would have easily lost to Boros but once he became a full monster ONE is unsure who would win though Garou would have the CQC advantage because he's Garou and he was capable of outspeeding Saitama briefly unlike Boros. He doesn't need to mention Boros having the range advantage or CSRC when the statement was made after the feat happened and he is the ONE who agreed to add the feat in the first place.

Mob and Tatsumaki scaling is iffy though imo.
 
The Calaca said:
"his feat was casual" (somethig that someone told me isn't true, even)
Click to expand...
Only talking about this part because it bothered me.

As someone who read all the manga i can tell you honestly that the earthquake feat was casual, as it was merely an effect of ???% psychic power leaking out, it also caused a tornado and eletronic devices, including cars and helicopters around the entire city to shutdown.

He wasn't even consciously doing it, as ???% objective was not destroying the city, but confessing to Tsubomi as himself. If you want to read for yourself it starts at chapter 100.1 and goes up to 100.2 (both are very large chapters and hard spoilers).
 
Look, the main issue here is that we have no supporting evidence or contexts for cross-fiction scaling of this nature, and in the case of Mob and Tatsumaki and Kongou Bancho and Nanatsu No Taizai, the displayed scales of power do not properly fit with each other.

By your own reasoning, for Garou and Boros we will have good supporting evidence for them being equal by similar scales of power displayed in their fights with Saitama.
 
Yay~ people are finally talking about this.

It doesn't matter what ONE says, author has to showcase said capabilities in the fiction itself for it to matter IMO, that doesn't exist here and honestly this statement makes the pages look straight up laughable and stupid, it's wanking them to the max for the sake of it.

You can argue for a "possibly far higher" if that's literally the only statement supporting that rating, not ignoring the work of fiction's own ratings entirely. I might as well begin cross-scaling all Spider-Man franchises to comics Spider-Man based on Spider-Verse while we're at it.

Talk about valid, isn't there a similar statement of Murata stating he wouldn't know who'd win between Goku and Saitama? 3-A Saitama anyone? Given that Saitama doesn't show an upper limit either.
 
Antvasima said:
Look, the main issue here is that we have no supporting evidence or contexts for cross-fiction scaling of this nature, and in the case of Mob and Tatsumaki and Kongou Bancho and Nanatsu No Taizai, the displayed scales of power do not properly fit with each other.
By your own reasoning, for Garou and Boros we will have good supporting evidence for them being equal by similar scales of power displayed in their fights with Saitama.
Click to expand...
(I already conceded about cross scaling above, the only thing i still debate is Garou x Boros and it really should have it`s own discussion since it`s not a cross verse scaling statement)

i'm just saying why i don`t agree that feat was not casual, not trying to use it as support for cross scaling.
 
Zark2099 said:
Talk about valid, isn't there a similar statement of Murata stating he wouldn't know who'd win between Goku and Saitama? 3-A Saitama anyone? Given that Saitama doesn't show an upper limit either.
Click to expand...
Murata did say his Wog should be taken with a grain of salt, as ONE keeps him in the dark about lot of future plot points. (besides we all know Saitama is Tier 0 /s)
 
I agree with Zark, that although Boros Vs Garou has been somewhat referenced. They're the only two opponents who didn't just instantly go down with a super casual punch. They both scale from the casual moon jumping feat based on the showings we saw from each of them. So in that regard, One's statement makes sense.

But Mob Vs Tatsumaki has shown 0 showings unless a canon crossover manga/webcomic was made that showcases this.
 
I also agree with Medeus.
 
This is the last thing I am going to say for this thread as I am very busy and rather tired of having to constantly argue against the same exact points throughout multiple threads. After this I am unfollowing the thread and whatever anyone else decides is fine with me.

"The statement can't be used because Mob doesn't have as good feats as Tatsumaki/Garou doesn't have as good feats as Boros."

I don't know why this keeps being brought up since the wiki has never required pure feats alone to be used for powerscaling. Reliable statements are also used. This site's very own page on Statements explicitly states "A character CAN be upgraded by word of mouth alone." Jiren isn't put as weaker than IZ just because his feats aren't good since he's stated to be stronger. Bang isn't put as weaker than Choze just because his feats aren't as good since he's defeated people stated to be stronger than Choze.

People want a feat and won't accept what the author says without a feat, but guess who the person writing the feat would be? If these two characters were to fight each other they'd be evenly matched. We don't need ONE to actually put this in his story as long as he's told us that this is what he would put in. It's like demanding a chapter where Genos says his favorite color is blue in order to believe ONE if he said Genos's favorite color is blue.

Like honestly, what difference does it make if the author draws two characters fighting each other in his story vs outright telling everyone that if he were to draw these two fighting then this is what he would have happen? In both cases, this is the author conveying to the audience what these characters are capable of. It was said "But Mob Vs Tatsumaki has shown 0 showings unless a canon crossover manga/webcomic was made that showcases this." However again, ONE confirmed that if a canon crossover was ever made by him regarding this, that's what he'd put down.

Mob/Garou never got an actual chance to show the full extent of their power. So their author took it upon himself to confirm their full power and what they are capable if they were in a situation to showcase it. That shouldn't be discarded.

"But what if ONE didn't know how powerful his characters actually were"

ONE probably doesn't know specifically what a foreign fan wiki currently thinks his characters are at. He doesn't pixel scale his drawings and run calculations on what energy levels certain scenes he's making have. Literally no author does that. Do people think Toriyama knows or cares what level this site puts his characters at? No, but he and other authors would at least know their characters' power relation with each other. Even if the author doesn't know the specifc joule count of X, he knows that X is stronger than Y. Therefore we can powerscale Y to whatever level we currently have X at. Also if we're being honest, with how often calcs get changed and revised each yielding different results, none of us actually know the exact power level these characters are supposed to be.

"But Mob and Tatsu are from different stories"

That's irrelevant. These are both ONE's characters and both stories are his stories. He is the sole writer and creator of these characters and stories. So he has WoG over them. People say "but they aren't even in the same setting" however that doesn't really matter. They are from settings created by the exact same person, and that person has confirmed that if they by some chance happened to encounter each other in the same setting, they'd be on par.

There's no reason why we can't accept what the author says about their own characters when they're in the same story but not when they are in 2 different stories that the author still wrote themselves.

There isn't a magical force that suddenly makes an author's words completely unreliable once he's dealing with 2 characters from 2 stories he wrote when he knew what he was talking about when dealing with 2 characters from 1 story he wrote?

"Oh this guy had a grasp on how powerful his own character was and was properly able to compare the power of another character he wrote before. But now this other character of his he's comparing them to was in a different story, so now he lost the ability to properly compare the power of his own characters. If only this character happened to be in the same story, then he'd suddenly be able to properly know how they compare to each other." I'm sorry but I think that's silly.

"But this sets a bad precedent and crossverse scaling will get out of hand"

The issue isn't crossverse scaling itself. It is with invalid forms of crossverse scaling. Like most things on this site, it is a case by case basis. Most of the potential gripes people have with scaling different verses are inapplicable here. However I'll run off what I think would make a specifica case of crossverse scaling valid.

  • Both characters and their verses originate from the exact same author.
  • Nothing within their stories contradicts that WoG statement.
If a potential crossverse scaling doesn't fall under both of those criteria then it isn't valid. You don't have to worry about some crazy scaling between different series running amok. The fact that people are equating this to scenarios of an author comparing his character to another character that doesn't belong to him shows that people do not fully understand this case.

The Doom writers are not the same writers as the ones behind Elder Scrolls. Goku isn't Murata's character and he has no WoG over him. Spider-Man has had dozens of writers throughout who knows how many continuities all with different ideas of how powerful he is. Mob and Tatsu are ONE's characters and ONE's characters alone. He has WoG over them, and this WoG has not been contradicted. Therefore it's valid.
 
Antvasima said:
Look, the main issue here is that we have no supporting evidence or contexts for cross-fiction scaling of this nature, and in the case of Mob and Tatsumaki and Kongou Bancho and Nanatsu No Taizai, the displayed scales of power do not properly fit with each other.

By your own reasoning, for Garou and Boros we will have good supporting evidence for them being equal by similar scales of power displayed in their fights with Saitama.
Click to expand...
I still stand by what I wrote here.
 
I already explained numerous times why it doesn't matter if Mob's feats aren't as good as Tatsu's. Garou never needed to have as good feats for his statement to be valid either, but the fact that he will get such feats just builds to his case even more.

Again, it makes no difference if ONE draws two of his characters fighting on par or explicitly states that if he were to draw two of his characters fighting he'd have them be on par. Both instances are the author conveying that two of his characters are on par.
 
Whatever the case with Mob and Tatsu, Boros and Garou are absolutely valid for what Ryu stated and that shouldn't be dismissed. Death of the author really doesn't work in that case since there's NOTHING to contradict it in the manga or the OG webcomic.
 
Boros and Garou do have the context of doing similarly well in fights against Saitama though, so that makes the statement make better sense.
 
So basically it's a case-by-case basis. If the feats support what the author says with regards to scaling two characters of the same verse, there should be no denial that it works. Like in the case of Boros and Garou here.
 
@KLOL506

Yes, that is correct, but scaling characters from different fictions with very different displayed overall power levels seems very unreliable.
 
Yeah, then that seems okay. Mob and Tats comparison can go, but Boros and Garou and anything similar and consistent of the sort will stay.
 
I don't really get this, the statement about Mob is never contradicted, if he had feats of idk city level exerting himself, this would be a contradiction, and we would go by death of the author, instead he has causal feats around that range by walking, yes below what Tatsumaki did but him being that high isn't contradicted.

The idea that the author who created both series is suddenly untrustworthy when dealing with different series they wrote is just weird to me. Yea they have no clue that this character doing this feat yields this much joules, but that one character is comparable to the other is perfectly reasonable.
 
If I remember correctly Mob has no raw power feats of anywhere near Tatsumaki's scale, and she has no speed feats of anywhere near his scale. In addition, crossovers in general tend to rescale the characters to fit better with each other for the sake of plot convenience. I am uncomfortable with making exceptions for author statements.
 
He has like a 7-A feat via walking from what i remember, and Tatsumaki has a causal MHS+ feat from what i remember too.

I want someone to show me a contradiction to them scaling, thus death of the author applies, not just it's too high but here is the character fully exerting themselves and it's nowhere near the other.

It's too high, is bad reasoning imo. This isn't like a DC and Marvel crossover where they have the characters fight each other or something thus contradicting feats in their own series (note, this is my assumption since i am not into comics).

It's a statement by the author which atm isn't contradicted from what i can see.

This should be a case by case imo, i don't think we can make a blanket statement that crossovers are allowed or not allowed.
 
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