Regarding Beerus vs Thanatos

[LTB2000]

I believe we should remove this loss from Beerus mostly due to the fact that it was a speed stomp by leaps and bounds. For proof, he was only 75% as fast as Whis, and Whis is calculated to be 187.5 Billion times the speed of light. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Faisal_Shourov/Whis_speed

Thanatos was calculated to be around the sextillions of times the speed of light. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:CHILLVIBEZZ/Thanatos's_attack_speed

So even if Beerus was as fast as Whis, it would still be a speed stomp, and speed stomps are against the rules in vs threads, so I request that we take this win out of Thanatos.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Speed stomps are (or at least should be) only for characters in different speed ratings. However, this probably falls under hax stomp though.

 

[LTB2000]

The difference between billions of times ftl and sextillions of times ftl is wide as the Pacific ocean, therefore, it was mostly a speed stomp in thanatos's favor.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I support this.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Speed stomp? Hax stomp? ƒÿæ Is this for real? You guys want chars to have close speed and hax now? Limiting Vs matches even more I see...

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^Actually those are things that are technically not accepted. Speed stomps especially. That's a reason speed equalization is a thing.

 

[PostmodernD]

Speed stomp? Hax stomp? ƒÿæ
Is this for real? You guys want chars to have close speed and hax now? Limiting Vs matches even more I see...

This. Just this. It's going to get to the point where characters are so close that people really are just voting for their favorites. Sometimes characters have big DC advantages, but lack in speed or hax. It makes for more interesting topics. Ican't support this. The most I would get on board for is labeling speed was not equalized, and even that I would be reluctant about.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

This isn't Thanatos"s movement speed but attack speed even equalizing though he wouldn't have problems with DBS gods thanks to his hax..

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

If it's a speed stomp I agree. Hax stomps are meh imo.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Seriously it's like not even the characters from their respective fictions anymore just characters that have been modified for the sake of a fight.When chars have powers with a ridiculous gap and it's a stomp then sure it's just common sense that the fight isn't needed to be argued.

But altering statistics to make things more debatable isn't right.Its not even the characters anymore.You guys are nitpicking way too much...

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^I kind of agree. However like I said speed stomps imo shouldn't be added. Limiting Hax isn't needed as they are apart of the character....

 

[PostmodernD]

I'm fairly new, but we're speed stomps against the rules at the time? Cause if they were not, I am against it being removed, if they were, it should have been closed. Just my opinion.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I take back what I said about hax then.

 

[Aparajita]

Notice: it's almost always Dragonball characters that these kinds of threads are about. It's not our (as the community)'s fault that Dragonball is in the Universal range without any Hax.

 

[PostmodernD]

@Aparajita Also this.

 

[LTB2000]

It doesn't change the fact that it's a speed stomp. Goku lost most of his victories because of the speed stomp rule. So even though that fight took place before the rule, it still didn't stop goku's speed stomp matches from disappearing. So the same can be applied to every other character in this wiki.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

They were removed because of the different speed tier. Speed is still a factor, and should be if they're the same speed tier, even though it can cause a battle to get dull. For example, Wally should never ever be put up against, say, final form Frieza due to the speed difference. But if he's put up against say, Arale (she's MFTL+, right?), then it shouldn't be equalized.

 

[Aparajita]

Especially since Wally's entire thing is speed itself.

 

[PostmodernD]

I was also against those being removed for a variety of reasons, the biggest of which is retroactive rule changes. At worst I thought maybe adding an asterisk or something. This fight was good thematically, God of Destruction v God of Death, it just turned out that one was better than the other. I got 0 spite vibes from that thread, but that's just me perhaps. Can't tell you how to feel man, but I Can't get on board with it. Going through and applying this rule to everyone now I find tedious and unnecessary, and so far I've only seen it be asked be done for DB characters. I might have missed other requests though.

 

[LTB2000]

They were removed because of the different speed tier. Speed is still a factor, and should be if they're the same speed tier, even though it can cause a battle to get dull. For example, Wally should never ever be put up against, say, final form Frieza due to the speed difference. But if he's put up against say, Arale (she's MFTL+, right?), then it shouldn't be equalized.

The MFTL+ section is really big. So if you were to have someone that's 8 tredecillion times ftl against someone that's a million times faster than light, then apparently, it doesn't count as a speed stomp regardless of the wide gap.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

You have created a paradox tbh

Some chars actually rely on speed or to put it simpler it could be a deciding factor of the match.(Which many times it is)

In those cases fights aren't even determined by the feats the chars have shown but pure luck he has/Ap to put the other out and in most cases I've noticed that the char who initially had greater speed is then rendered at a disadvantage.Which isn't right and cheating him...

 

[LTB2000]

And back then, people would look at the speed and just determine that the faster person would win cause he would be too fast for the other character to react or use any hax.

 

[Tivanenk]

This is stupid. This would pretty much remove every single Wally West victory simply because he was "too fast" for his opponent. Not supported in any case. Speed is speed and it's an important factor in a match just like DC and hax.

 

[LTB2000]

Even with speed equalized, Wally can still win with his hax.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

No he can't...most ppl in his wins can one shot him and have the means to.His hax isn't even much hax it's just minor intag

 

[Tivanenk]

You might as well not make any Giorno Giovanna matches as well, as he's either "too fast" or "too hax" for his opponents in the cases where he does win.

This smells of DB fandom work.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

I swear hax stomp and speed equalization just seem good but they are infact just paradoxes that cheat the first advantaged char of his win most of the time smh..

 

[LTB2000]

Flash has his speed steal, making it a complete win in his favor.

 

[Ryukama]

Umm Wally West has nothing but one inconclusive match added. And just because some stomp matches get added does not make adding them okay. The first thing this wiki says regarding its rules is that violating them on the grounds of other violations is not okay.

The discussion should be reducing the issue, not making it greater just because we have examples of not being 100% utterly perfect enforcing this.

 

[Tivanenk]

Beerus is 3-A, Thanatos is 3-B, yet Thanatos won. Beerus had a DC of over a billion times over Thanatos, so he had the "DC stomp" and yet he still lost. Nothing unfair about this.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I swear hax stomp and speed equalization just seem good but they are infact just paradoxes that cheat the first advantaged char of his win most of the time smh..

Except with some characters speed needs to be equalized because they're either too fast (Ex. Most JJBA characters) or too slow (Ex. Neo Exdeath) for most characters in their tier.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Beerus is 3-A, Thanatos is 3-B, yet Thanatos won. Beerus had a DC of over a billion times over Thanatos, so he had the "DC stomp" and yet he still lost. Nothing unfair about this.

That's because Thanatos' speed and hax renders Beerus' AP irrelevant, which is the entire reason this thread exists.

 

[Ryukama]

Beerus is 3-A, Thanatos is 3-B, yet Thanatos won. Beerus had a DC of over a billion times over Thanatos, so he had the "DC stomp" and yet he still lost. Nothing unfair about this.

Thanatos has hax that is essentially the exact same effect as a one shot along with vastly superior speed. Beerus's AP means nothing in the match and doesn't make it not a stomp.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Ever

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Speed equalization should not be mandatory here

If a character is much faster then another then it's just the way it is.Its not unfair because the character has better speed feats than the other.

Besides how would hax stomp even work? Take away Thanatos hax is taking away literally his only means of victory against stronger opponents thus cheating him of his own win.

As I said it's a paradox that favors the char with weaker feats

 

[Aparajita]

How about putting methods of victory? I.E, Wally vs Beerus (Wally wins Via Hax)?

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

I'll be waiting for every Yhwach thread to be claimed "hax stomps"

Lol

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I was gonna stay out of this after my first two comments, but I'll voice my opinion a bit more.

I honestly think my speed stomp rule is being taken wayyyy too far. When you're MFTL+, you should have to take the bad with the good. It's the same thing with tiers. One 3-B can be a heck of a lot greater than other 3-B's (looking at you, Goku), but that doesn't stop the match from being shut down. If they are in different speed TIERS (like a MHS vs a Sub-Rel. I used that example because Sub-Rel vs Sub-Rel+ I don't believe should fall into a speed stomp), then it should be considered a speed stomp. Like, say Ganondorf vs Nappa. The only exception would be a tier difference, like a lower tier with a speed advantage fought a higher tier (i.e. Superman vs Cell). Or like what happened here.

Hax stomp rule is sometimes good, sometimes an attempt to remove matches because they don't like seeing it on their favorite's page. Hax makes a character who they are. Speed doesn't (at least not always. Only exception I can think of is Flash. Even Sonic doesn't rely only on his speed). If it's very severe, like Reinhard Heydrich vs Gurren Lagann, then that would make sense as a hax stomp, and the match should never have been made.

 

[Ryukama]

Speed equalization should not be mandatory here
If a character is much faster then another then it's just the way it is.Its not unfair because the character has better speed feats than the other.

Besides how would hax stomp even work? Take away Thanatos hax is taking away literally his only means of victory against stronger opponents thus cheating him of his own win.

As I said it's a paradox that favors the char with weaker feats

@Akuto nobody wants to take away Thanatos's hax. They simply do not want him put up against people with such little abilities that he is essentially fighting a toddler.

And when you have characters capable of doing trillions of different actions before the other is halfway done blinking, you better believe that it's an unfair match.

Also I am not sure you know what the word "paradox" means. Saying a match where someone has to fight someone else orders of magnitude faster and with abilities that instanly kill them unfair is far from a paradox.

Lastly removing stomp matches agains DB characters if far from bias for them. If anything the real bias is letting them constantly get crushed by people they reasonably cannot oppose. Plus if we're going to add these matches (which would imply Beerus could at least stand a chance) against guys like Thanatos and Flash we are pretty much wanking him to oblivion.

 

[Ryukama]

@Cal That makes no sense. MFTL+ is any finite number greater than 1000. You can literally have gaps googolplex to the power of googolplex times greater than the gap between MHS and Sub-Rel. Speedstomps should more than apply in there as well.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

That's literally it is it not?

Some chars are superior in AP while the other in hax how is that a stomp match?

How is Thanatos filling the gap between Beerus and him with hax unfair?

Makes bout 0 sense

Paradox means contradicting to put it short.

And what exactly do you guys think "fair" means?

How is a character being superior to another by what happened in their own fictional verse unfair?