Regarding Beerus vs Thanatos

[Akuto_Sai12]

I agree that their are stomp matches but sayin every single advantage a char has can be considered a stomp is ridiculous(hax stomps,speed stomps)

No one even uses this or believes it outside this one site not ACF not OBD and by no means is it correct either

 

[Ryukama]

That's literally it is it not?
Some chars are superior in AP while the other in hax how is that a stomp match?

How is Thanatos filling the gap between Beerus and him with hax unfair?

Makes bout 0 sense

Paradox means contradicting to put it short.

And what exactly do you guys think "fair" means?

How is a character being superior to another by what happened in their own fictional verse unfair?

It's not about being superior or having an advantage. It's that some of these matches come to a point where the other literally cannot do anything to stand a chance.

Would you say an armed grown man vs a baby bunny tied to a tree is a fair match? That is essentially what Thanatos vs Beerus is except orders of magnitude worse. Thantos can one shot with his hax before Beerus could process a thought. Beerus can do nothing to him, even with AP advantage.

Okay so paradox means contradicting. How does saying one guy gets his ass kicked hard contradictory in the slightest?

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Dude same can be said of Thanatos didn't have his hax winning by a single mean and winning by many is not the same he has broken hax so what so does GER

Infact GER"s abilities make it so the other cant do a thing? So does Yhwach ?

Are they non usable in matches now?

What a joke ƒÿæ

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Cal That makes no sense. MFTL+ is any finite number greater than 1000. You can literally have gaps googolplex to the power of googolplex times greater than the gap between MHS and Sub-Rel. Speedstomps should more than apply in there as well.

Considering the highest is tredecillion, it's a bit of a stretch. Plus, the 3-B example still stands. The gap between one 3-B and another 3-B is about the same magnitude as say, a high 7-A and a 6-C.

 

[Ryukama]

@Akuto If Thanatos was forced to fight Beerus without his hax and actually got the match added I'd be vouching for that to get removed via stomp in Beerus's favor. I don't care that a DB character lost or a SS character won or any of that nonsense. I care that a blatant stomp match was added.

Also you yourself said you believe there are stomp matches. If a match where someone literally cannot do anything to the other and that is okay, what in god's name counts as a stomp to you?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Actually, I'm neutral again. Ryu's making a ton of sense, but my views are still set to an extent.

 

[Ryukama]

Considering the highest is tredecillion, it's a bit of a stretch. Plus, the 3-B example still stands. The gap between one 3-B and another 3-B is about the same magnitude as say, a high 7-A and a 6-C.

Doesn't change the fact that gaps like that are possible, making this thing of tier differences being speedstomps but not the MFTL+ range invalid in my opinion.

And if there was a match between 3-B's where one could oneshot the other and they didn't have speed and hax to compensate, then that is a stomp as well and should be removed.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Cal. Anyways glad to see you're somewhat open to what I am talking about man.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

@Akuto If Thanatos was forced to fight Beerus without his hax and actually got the match added I'd be vouching for that to get removed via stomp in Beerus's favor. I don't care that a DB character lost of a SS character won or any of that nonsense. I care that a blatant stomp match was added.

Also you youreself said you believe there are stomp matches. If a match where someone literally cannot do anything to the other and that is okay, what in god's name counts as a stomp to you?

.....You still didn't refute my argument at all and gish galloped? Are all GER"s wins stomps now? Are all Yhwach"s wins stomps now?

Winning via broken hax =/= stomp match He won because of his hax nothing unfair about it.

 

[Ryukama]

@Akuto I am not familiar with those characters, but if their hax made it where their opponents could not do anything in the slightest, then yes it is a stomp. Appealing to perceived hypocrisy and saying "well other stomps got added" are far from legitamate arguments worth addressing. And you still have not answered my question.

If a match where one character literally could not do anything and the other could perform quintillions of actions to win immediately isn't a stomp. Then what is a stomp to you?

 

[Tivanenk]

ITT: People misunderstanding hax. Hax is there specifically so that a character in a lower tier can fight with those with an upper tier.

Do you guys know what an unfair match would have been? It's if Beerus couldn't have done anything at all to Thanatos. That is stomp. However, both can oneshot each other, it's just that Thanatos can do it faster than Beerus can. Nothing more than that.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Basically your saying Yhwach and GER are not usable because of their hax?

Including Wally take away his speed is taking away all his wins and cheating him.

Yeah I'm done I've already proven my point.

"Stomp" is just thrown around nonsensical now and has made versus matches convoluted beyond belief.

All broken haxxed characters shouldn't be used apparently

 

[Ryukama]

@Tivanek The speed difference between Thanatos and Beerus makes it so Beerus cannot do anything to Thanatos. If you agree Beerus blitzing and one-shotting Spiderman shouldn't be allowed and the like. There is no reason to accept Thanatos vs Beerus, where the effect is basically the same.

@Akuto if Yhwach and GER cannot have any matches without it being a stomp, yes. However I am sure that isn't the case. Also once again Wally has no wins and no one wants to take away his abilities. There is actually a rule against doing so.

All you have done is say "well they're doing it too" and refused to answer my simple question. You have not proven anything.

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, in my opinion I don't like to equalizace speed, i only do it when the gasp between speed is very very high and there's nothing to compensate that diference. I like when a fight is made between a wall level character and a city level, and the wall level win, this thread can work as example; that is why I check individual feats first than all, next to numbers/calcs, and scaling for the last

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Nah you lost the argument when you claimed Yhwach and GER aren't usable I've said my piece hax that can one shot doesn't make a stomp it's *hax* it's supposed to be op

 

[Tivanenk]

@Ryukama They're both in the MFTL+ section. What you're suggesting is that we can matches unless there's a certain multiplier between various stats which the characters fit into (2x-3x).

What you're saying is that we must invalidate about 95% of the matches on here, because most matches have country level characters with one being 4 teratons and the other being 26 teratons, and one is 6 times greater than the other, which is, according to you, a stomp.

 

[Ryukama]

@Tivenenk once again them both being MFTL+ means nothing if one is sextillions of times FTL and the other is like 100 billion. Those are gaps FAR greater than things like MHS and Sub-Rel.

Once again just because some stomps get allowed doesn't mean all of them should be accepted. Especially blatant and horrific ones like these.

So the fact that Thanatos blitzes Beerus and one shots him doesn't matter because Beerus is greater in AP. An advantage which you also say doesn't help Beerus at all in this match, how is it not a stomp? Is Beerus blitzing and one-shotting Spiderman okay cause Spiderman is better at telling jokes? Even if joke telling is irrelevant in the match. That is essentially what Beerus vs Thanatos is.

 

[P.Gyuri]

More rules are only going to make threads a stalemate and boring mess, speed is a defining factor and should be taken into account when deciding who wins, same with hax. Maybe we could create more speed ratings or something?

 

[Tivanenk]

Exactly. The threads will become to stale and this will ultimately lead to the death of VS matches here. Though more speed tiers isn't a bad idea. I'm not sure if they have been taken into consideration.

 

[Antoniofer]

ˆYep, but is much work due that several characters has MFTL+ speed but unknown numbers

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Exactly. The threads will become to stale and this will ultimately lead to the death of VS matches here. Though more speed tiers isn't a bad idea. I'm not sure if they have been taken into consideration.

The staff have already discussed this multiple times basically they don't have the manpower to check every mftl+ character and many mftl+ have mftl+ ratings with unknown numbers, this would be a huge project.

 

[Ryukama]

@Tivenek The idea of speed tiers has been rejected on multiple occasions. I'd like them but they are too impractical and take too much work.

And what would really be a detriment to VS matches is we just allow whatever stomps we want. No form of debate or conversation cause one obviously wins, and people being able to get anyone they don't like tons of losses.

Once again if a match where one character can get one shot trillions upon trillions of times over before they can process a thought isn't a stomp, what is? And if the only advantage Beerus has means completely nothing, how is this different than me making Beerus vs Spiderman and finding one arbitrary thing Spidey is better at. Even if that thing doesn't help him at.

 

[Tivanenk]

So let me hear your suggestion. Do we limit matches to only stalemates because we can't allow speed, hax, or DC advantages?

 

[Ryukama]

Advantage is one thing. Match where one person literally cannot do anything and gets one shot trillions of times over before processing a thought is an entirely different thing.

Once again what makes this match any different than Beerus vs Spiderman? If this is not a stomp what on Earth is? Both you and Akuto will not answer these two things.

 

[P.Gyuri]

maybe the fact that spiderman is like 5 tiers below beerus... ? idk.

 

[Ryukama]

maybe the fact that spiderman is like 5 tiers below beerus... ? idk.

And how about Beerus's AP meaning nothing and that he still gets one shot by Thanatos as badly as Spidey would by Beerus. Along with the horrific blitzes as well.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

I've already answered that this is getting way too redundant for me tho

Spiderman is leagues bellow Beerus by AP alone and has no hax to edge it out.The gap is huge.

And hax that renders all of the opponents techs/actions useless is no stomp.

Chars can be intangible thus unfazed by the other opponents attacks. It's not a stomp then.And Thanatos is on sextillions in attack speed and even then it's nowhere near that faster then Beerus...

Besides the calc posted above was a low balled one Beerus/Whis should be quadrillions to quintillions if high end is accepted

 

[Tivanenk]

There are many Tier 2 matches where literally the only thing that is the difference is speed (one is omnipresent vs the other is immeasurable) and he gets the win because of that, and no one thinks it's a speed stomp in this case. It's only a speed stomp if the speed tiers are too different. In this case, both are MFTL+, so the match is more than valid.

 

[Ryukama]

I've already answered that this is getting way too redundant for me tho
Spiderman is leagues bellow Beerus by AP alone and has no hax to edge it out.The gap is huge.

And hax that renders all of the opponents techs/actions useless is no stomp.

Chars can be intangible thus unfazed by the other opponents attacks. It's not a stomp then.And Thanatos is on sextillions in attack speed and even then it's nowhere near that faster then Beerus...

Besides the calc posted above was a low balled one Beerus/Whis should be quadrillions to quintillions if high end is accepted

Beerus's AP once again has as much bearing in this fight as Spiderman's joke telling skills would help him against Beerus.

If one character cannot do anything to the other and they instantly get one shot and blitzed then that is a stomp.

Beerus's speed is accepted as 187 billion here. And even if high ball is accepted Thanatos still horrifically blitzes.

 

[Ryukama]

There are many Tier 2 matches where literally the only thing that is the difference is speed (one is omnipresent vs the other is immeasurable) and he gets the win because of that, and no one thinks it's a speed stomp in this case. It's only a speed stomp if the speed tiers are too different. In this case, both are MFTL+, so the match is more than valid.

Once again using other instances of rule breaking does not validate rules getting broken. That's the first thing this wiki says about the rules. Other stomp matches being accepted does not validate this one.

Also the gap between Beerus and Thanatos is in the hundreds of billions. How is that not a speed stomp? Them being in the same tier (especially a tier where characters can literally be googolplex times faster than another) means nothing.

 

[Tivanenk]

There are many characters here that have haxes like Accelerator where if you can circumvent it, you can usually beat them very badly, but if not, you can do jack against them. We would literally be banning many characters from battle due to intangibility, Regenerationn, immortality, etc. because "they can't be put down". Hax and speed are a part of the arsenal. Not everything revolves around DC. Deal with it.

 

[Ryukama]

There are many characters here that have haxes like Accelerator where if you can circumvent it, you can usually beat them very badly, but if not, you can do jack against them. We would literally be banning many characters from battle due to intangibility, Regenerationn, immortality, etc. because "they can't be put down". Hax and speed are a part of the arsenal. Not everything revolves around DC. Deal with it.

Have you even read my comments? I said not everything revolves around DC multiple times. Calling it completely useless in this case.

And once again appealing to perceived hypocrisy and using other cases of rules being broken does not validate anything. "Deal with it."

Also tell me what is a stomp if this isn't? And what separates this match from other blitzes and one shots like Beerus vs Spiderman? You are acting so confident in yourself yet keep running away from these two questions.

 

[Thebluedash]

Yes, this match is a huge blitz. The Beerus vs Spiderman comparsion is actually quite accurate.

 

[Tivanenk]

The Beerus vs Spiderman comparison is not even good. Spiderman can't do anything against Beerus. Beerus can actually kill Thanatos. So it's not like Beerus can't do anything.

 

[P.Gyuri]

Well, spiderman's joking skill may help him vs Beerus, did you even watched that battle of gods movie??????

jk.

Anyways, i was searching and i found this thread in wich the battle was closed because Shun was too much for Vados. I still don't agree in making speed and hax irrelevant or creating more rules, but i'm curious... what was the right decission? Letting Beerus vs Thanatos open or closing Vados vs Shun?

 

[Ryukama]

The Beerus vs Spiderman comparison is not even good. Spiderman can't do anything against Beerus. Beerus can actually kill Thanatos. So it's not like Beerus can't do anything.

Beerus cannot land anything on Thanatos. He couldn't ever kill him. Thanatos can oneshot trillions of times over before Beerus processes a thought. Hence Beerus cannot do anything to him either.

 

[Tivanenk]

You know, we can jsut add speed equalized to both and call it a day, since equal speed wouldn't even make a difference.

 

[Antoniofer]

Wait, isn't Thanatos that faster via attack speed? is he is only that fast with attack, Beerus still has chance to make a good fight

 

[PostmodernD]

Well this thread blew up.

 

[Ryukama]

Wait, isn't Thanatos that faster via attack speed? is he is only that fast with attack, Beerus still has chance to make a good fight

According to our site's SS expert Matt, outside of attack speed apparently Thanatos is 150 quintillion c. So still a horrific blitz.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Okay.

Thanatos vs Beerus is a good matchup... If Speed Equalized.

It'd be a battle of Hax vs AP, and it'd be a quick match resolved by skill and abilities, and it would still end in Thanatos' victory, granted.

I think that the Spider-Man comparison is pretty shitty cause if Thanatos is just standing around like a jackass, Beerus can one-shot him. But if both are actually in a serious fight, Thanatos wins.