Redoing the Curse mark multipliers

[Shadowbokunohero]

Yeah but it’s not like his pull strength = the force of the arrow.

they correlated and cant be separated by a huge amount.

the Force of your arrow isn't dozens of times stronger the user, the advantage of a bow is its range and piercing damage. You can replicate the KE of an arrow with a melee weapon.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

The databook apparently says it does, and he would need to transform to create the bow.

His character profile says this

the databook statement doesn't argue that his strength comes from creating his bow, the bow allows him to attack from a distance, control it and give him a ridiculous amount of accuracy.

The strength comes from his arms (which increases when you enter a CM state)
'
"A destructive archery jutsu that is the perfect one hit kill. By using his eight limbs, Kidoumaru can boost the tension in the bow to an extraordinary level. Also, by attaching a chakra thread to the arrow he can control it up to 50 metres from his target, achieving an astounding accuracy.


On top of this, the third eye which opens when he enters Level 2 gives him unmatched precision. Even from distances where he cannot be sensed by his opponent, his lightning speed arrow pierces through his target!!"

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

ill prob be only able to answer again tomorrow because Im going to be busy IRL

 

[KingTempest]

the databook statement doesn't argue that his strength comes from creating his bow, the bow allows him to attack from a distance, control it and give him a ridiculous amount of accuracy.

The strength comes from his arms (which increases when you enter a CM state)
'
"A destructive archery jutsu that is the perfect one hit kill. By using his eight limbs, Kidoumaru can boost the tension in the bow to an extraordinary level. Also, by attaching a chakra thread to the arrow he can control it up to 50 metres from his target, achieving an astounding accuracy.


On top of this, the third eye which opens when he enters Level 2 gives him unmatched precision. Even from distances where he cannot be sensed by his opponent, his lightning speed arrow pierces through his target!!"

It flat out says that the bow uses harder webs which means the bow is stronger than his regular limbs.

And nada, Kidomaru already has 6 arms and 2 legs in his base form.

 

[KingTempest]

We keep thinking about AP amps in the most basic ways. It's not just "oh he's physically stronger".

Kidomaru is the smart dude of the group. He uses physics, science, and his intelligence (which is why he has a 4 in intelligence) to raise his AP.

Kidoumaru confronts his opponents with skilful use of his six arms and intertwined webs. In the group of four, he is the technical and dextrous type. He applies rules to tense fights for survival, and enjoys them as a game.

When he fought Neji and raised his bow AP to Absolute Maximum%, did he add more CM chakra? No, he added spin on the bow.

In base he throws webbed weapons with 1 arm. In CM2 he creates a bow and shoots it by pulling it back with 6 arms and 2 legs.

It's not as simple as "he gets stronger".

 

[RanaProGamer]

Ya'll wrong, Base Naruto is 33 Megatons, Sage Mode is 1.5 Gigatons, easy 40x multiplier

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

It flat out says that the bow uses harder webs which means the bow is stronger than his regular limbs.

umm no?, you can fire off an arrow made of steel with the same amount of KE as one that's made out of wood (given you have the strength to do both), the only thing that changes is how effective the arrow is in damaging the enemy because of the density of the material.

also if you referring to the durability of the bow itself then no?? that wouldn't matter either because the KE doesn't come from a bow's durability, it helps in the event that tension and force you're pulling with isn't above what the bow can handle.

> We keep thinking about AP amps in the most basic ways. It's not just "oh he's physically stronger".

we are not, your playing semantics and creating a false dichotomy where because specific attributes of a character are highlighted means that those are the only attributes that are of quality.

Kidoumaru is a physical fighter where his abilities are tied to his Physiology and strength.

Archery is a Physical sport.

Johnny Milktoast is a premier Rugby Captain, his known for his Brilliant tactics and leadership, his accuracy in regards to scoring goals from the goalpost is unreal, however, Johnny also needs to be physically able to partake in scrums and tackling.

I was able to reply to this message just as you posted it but it's been stuck hovering here until I could actually click post Reply lmao. so yeah after this I really can't comment anymore and you're free to post the Kidoumaru stuff on my wall if you want to continue with it later.

 

[Nierre]

semantics.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Are we arguing whether the dude gets a 10x AP amp or whether he gets an unquantified amp. Cuz the second option seems a bit pointless.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Hey guys.
I'm really sorry for leaving this thread hanging for over a month at this point. As some of you may know, I've been away for a while now due to personal reasons, but I'm finally back. I'd like to try and get this over with as soon as possible now, because we need to get the revisions going again. I genuinely don't care too much for this topic, and like I said in my initial post, I don't really plan on dragging this out. I'll reply to most important rebuttals to my argument, and then I'll probably ask a few staff members to evaluate the arguments so we can finally get this over with.

Spoiler: Reply to Tempest

Welp, here goes....

Definitely not comparable in base.

Hehehehehehe, seeing you of all people using this scan is just funny for some reason

@UchihaSlayer96 My issue isn't "10x chakra amount", my issue is "10x chakra ≠ 10x strength", which a lot of people misunderstand.

I never said you had an issue or denied that their chakra gets increased by 10x. I disagree with a lot of your interpretations, though.

Jirobo's statement says "10x stronger". Directly 10x stronger. We know Jirobo's secret to his strength is his physical brute strength and him adding chakra to it.

I mean, like, is that supposed to be some unique trait? That's literally how 99.9% of Shinobi have superhuman strength. They display feats of superhuman strength, speed, durability, etc, through a combination of physical strength, chakra, and/or chakra control. Stats vary between individuals of course, and their techniques/specialization may lean more towards one of these attributes, but they are always involved and combined in some capacity.

We don't know
A. If 10x chakra amount = 10x stronger (And everyone don't say "Well why wouldn't it be???")
B. If they have the same/better chakra control than Jirobo to gain the same amp.

Well, why wouldn't it be???
But, no, seriously, we do know. We don't need to ponder whether they have better chakra control than Jirobo or not, because that's completely irrelevant.
Each one of them has a set amount of chakra control, regardless of how it compares with the other 3. If their chakra amount increased by 10x (which we already agree on), then they would become 10x stronger because they simply have 10x more chakra to work with, and with the same level of chakra control.

This might be a bit of a crude analogy, but I'll try to illustrate my point in terms of Energy Efficiency.
So energy efficiency is calculated like this iirc: Efficiency = Energy Output/ Energy Input.
If we play around a bit with this definition in order to fit our context, I guess it'd be more like: Chakra Control = (Strength/AP/Power) / Chakra amount/volume.
Let's, for the sake of the argument, assume some values to plug into our make-shift formula, shall we? So let's say that one of the Sound 4 possesses an AP value of 10, and a Chakra amount of 5. That would make his Chakra Control/Efficiency have a value of 2. (I know it's impossible to reach an efficiency value of 2, aka 200%, IRL, but this is just an illustrative example, so just bare with me lol).
Now let's say that same S4 member enters his CS2 State, where his chakra amount is multiplied by 10x. So now his chakra amount would be 50. Since it's the same character, his chakra control should logically be the same after transforming.
So now we're looking at: 2 = X/50
Solving for X (AP), we get 100, which is indeed 10x the original AP value we assumed.
Sorry if this was long-winded, or came off as condescending, but I really couldn't think of a better way to illustrate this simple point. It's a really basic concept, so I hope that we can just............stop dwelling on ridiculous semantics already.

As for the post directly, I don't need to tackle each point exactly, cause you misunderstood it.

Eh, I'd argue you misunderstood my points actually, but oh well.

Aside from Jirobo's chakra absorbing earth wall, he's a physical strength dude. He uses all his chakra for his physical strength.
These guys get separate amps that spread throughout their techniques.

If Jirobo has a 1 for his strength and everything else and he has 9 for his chakra amp, he puts 9 on strength, making him 10x stronger.

Kidomaru, Tayuya, Sakon/Ukon, Kimimaro, and in extension Sasuke, have different places where they put the chakra. They don't put all 9 on strength. They have ninjutsu they throw it on. Their skills get better.

Sigh...........
I'm not gonna lie to you Tempest, I really hate this argument so much....
Again, almost everything in the Naruto verse can be enhanced with Chakra. We've seen time and time again that this includes physical capabilities, but is certainly not limited to it. All manner of techniques, whether it's Ninjutsu or Genjutsu, can be enhanced with chakra. Even senses can be enhanced with chakra, as we see with the Inuzuka clan's sense of smell. Sage Mode, which is essentially a chakra amp (just of a different kind, which offers additional persk, but shhhhhhh), also amps both physical stats AND techniques (Ninjutsu and Genjutsu). In fact, all major chakra amps also happen to increase both physicals and techniques, know why? Because Chakra isn't selective. Chakra is simply an energy source, which characters use for different purposes, be it empowering their physicals, their techniques, or both. There's no "specialized chakra" that pools all of its benefits into a specific attribute. That's complete headcanon.
Characters having preferred techniques, strategies, abilities, or areas of combat in which they excel has nothing to do with how chakra fundamentally operates, and it certainly does not negate a character having the ability to use chakra for different purposes. The author is not obligated to spell out the obvious with each single character over and over again. When a writer gives a character their DB entries or in-story exposition, why would he/she waste their time re-explaining and re-establishing the verse's basic mechanics, instead of focusing on that specific character's special traits and techniques? Not only would that be redundant, it'd just be shitty writing tbf.
Characters having an area of specialty or a certain technique that is highlighted does NOT negate them being able to do other things. Itachi being a genjutsu specialist does NOT mean that's all he can do, for example. And so on.......

But for each individual point.

Kidomaru​

I've tackled this on the previous page.

Tayuya​

I've tackled this on the previous page

Hehehehehehe, if you think imma go hunt for em, you're sadly mistaken my friend XD

Sakon/Ukon​

It's baseless he has the same level of chakra control.

My point isn't the chakra amp, it's the strength amp tied to it which isn't 1:1 with everybody.

I've already addressed this. Your interpretation assumes that people get different "special amps", when that's just not a thing in the verse.
All attributes, be it physical stats, Ninjutsu, or Genjutsu, can be amped with chakra, but the degree of the amp can differ from character to character depending on their level of chakra control and their chakra reserves/amount.
I've already explained why in the case of the S4, they should all have the same exact amp. They each get 10x more chakra, compared to what THEY had before, and assuming constant level of chakra control would result in a 10x amp across the board. We don't need to compare them to each other, because that's irrelevant. This isn't a scaling thread.

Praising his strength and comparing his strength to Kidomaru when we know exactly how strong this Sasuke was is crazy to say the least. Praising his strength over blocking a punch makes little to no sense when he didn't know his base capabilities at that point in time.

Imma assume you mean Kimimaro here?
Well, in that case I can't believe what you're saying tbh. I thought it would be extremely obvious that Juugo is referring to Prime Kimimaro here. There's absolutely no reason to assume he was talking about deathbed Kimimaro, which is the one we're familiar with. It's counterintuitive tbh.
Kimimaro prior to catching his terminal illness was a completely different beast, as he was Orochimaru's ideal vessel and Kabuto stated that the 3rd Hokage's assassination would've been smooth sailing with him there. Clearly, we have an Itachi situation on our hands here, where his illness clearly nerfed him greatly.
So I don't really see an issue with such a character being comparable to Hebi Sasuke.
Also I'm not even sure what you're talking about with his "base capabilities". How is that relevant? He's praising the strength of Partial Transformation Sasuke, that's it. His base strength holds no relevance here.
In any case, I didn't even definitively assert that Sasuke and Kimimaro should get the amp. I was just throwing the possibility out there.

I could've sworn earlier, if not the last thread, that because of the "Stronger than Jirobo" statements they would scale above his amp, which I heavily disagree with, but since "stronger" statements are cherry picked I ignored it.

I literally made zero mention of any Sound 4 scaling here, so I'm not sure how this is relevant. Whether the other S4 members scale above Jirobo or not has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm arguing here. That matter will be settled in the upcoming Part I revision.
And I don't see how we cherry pick "stronger" statements. You want us to treat all such statements the same way, which just makes no sense. This isn't something that can be universally and consistently applied. It's judged on a case by case basis depending on context. Context is sometimes up to interpretation.
That's not hypocrisy, it's just how power scaling works. It's an inherently subjective endeavor.

But saying they get the same amp in 1 department is extremely baseless.

I'd argue saying they ONLY get such an amp in one specific random department is also baseless. This isn't an RPG where they choose how to allocate their "chakra points" in certain skill trees or attributes lol. They can specialize in specific areas, but that doesn't limit them to only that thing.

Anyway, I take it you agree with me on the people that should not get the amp, correct?

Spoiler: Reply to Pain

Anyway I apologize if I am a bit sarcastic or sassy in my next replies

It's fine.

Lol then orochimaru must have infinite chakra then, since he split his chakra in between so many people and they are all drawing on it at once or he replenishes it for them.from.time to time? Lol

.........
Lmao, they don't draw from Orochimaru himself like a battery lol. He puts a certain amount of his chakra in each of the seals, which replenishes over time like standard chakra reserves. The seals literally continue to work after Orochimaru himself has died lol. It also feeds on the user's chakra to replenish itself, which is why the Second State cannot be maintained for too long. This alone debunks the whole idea that it's similar to Sage Mode.
And btw, giving these guys 10x their chakra reserves would be child's play for Orochimaru. These are Chunin to Low-end Jonin level characters, they are fodder to him.

They obviously gather sage energy too naturally like juugo if they work similar to how jugo's own does which they do
Nowhere was it stated that it fuels itself on orochimari chakra that was sealed within them, the best explanation is that the seal helps them.gather nature energy and that's what is used everytime, we only know the seal used contains orochimaru chakra and consciousness but uses the users chakra in exchange for the nature energy they gain.
But my scans for my reasoning is below

This is headcanon.

Lol he is the original one, obviously he is better and has stated also he makes statements like the one below and also the fact when they transform they literally have the same effect, transformation, power boost and uncontrollable blood lust

This is an association fallacy. I already explained in detail why they are mechanically different, and thus have no reason to get the same amp. Juugo is stronger than them, and better at using Sage Transformation (it's even categorized differently, as other CM users are never said to be using Sage Transormation), but that doesn't mean he's getting the same amp. Again, they function differently.

1. https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0351-007.png
Calling others copycats, so it makes no sense that the copy cats gets a 10X boost but the original won't, but this is not all and relevant it was kabuto said that is interesting,

I already explained that they are using the same ability as Juugo, which Orochimaru harvested using Juugo's enzymes, but they have a different power source fueling them.

all these kabuto statements only says one thing
Sage mode >>>>> curse mark transformation of orochimaru
1. https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0579-016.png
Juugo clans original.power is sage mode, and orochimaru could not obtain it so he made setting else and yes kabuto considered it inferior to the actual thing called sage mode

2. https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0579-017.png

3. https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0579-018.png

For the record, nothing here remotely implies that SM is ">>>>>" CM, but whatever. It literally just says that the origin of the power of Juugo's clan is SM, which makes sense because they function exactly the same. It makes no comparison to Orochimaru's CM, and certainly does not debunk the fact that they operate differently.

It is literally the same thing, he is just a complete version
1. https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0349-009.png
This scan says achieve the same state as Jugo, the same = ident

I never said it wasn't the same state. I said it was fueled by a different power source.

2. And in fact all of them at a glance give off the same aura/chakra at a glance and needed karin to concentrate to be able to tell them apart, yeah same karin that naturally can sense who is who from afar without needing to concentrate

https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0350-016.png

This is irrelevant. Certain clans and people in the Naruto verse have something called a "Chakra Signature", which is like a finger print of sorts. Certain clans and people share this signature, which makes them difficult to distinguish and tell apart. It takes extremely skilled sensors or people with OP Dojutsu like Madara to tell individuals apart. So this is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

3. And here is a databook of juugo that says what juugo transformation does, which is gather nature energy

Again, I never said Juugo didn't absorb Nature Energy, I said users of Orochimaru's CM didn't.

Which means his copycats too does the same, and from.what we know the curse seal is an inferior version to sage mode as I have stated above. So it makes absolutely no sense for the copycats to get a 10X boost but the original and those who can achieve a perfect sage mode don't get it.
It's either they all get it or no one does.

I really feel like you completely and utterly missed the point I was trying to make. I implore you to reread my original post.

Anyway, I really hope we can conclude this ASAP guys. If ya'll just want me to go ahead and call some staff to evaluate this whole thing, I'll do so. Really don't wanna dwell on this any further tbh. We have more important things to deal with.

 

[KingTempest]

This is still a thing?

Yeah I concede on the arguments then.

The only thing I have an issue with is the Kimimaro praise thing. He's not praising strength, he's praising his skill to partially transform.

But I guess who you say doesn't get it and who gets it is fine then

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Alright, awesome. Thanks for the evaluation, King!

 

[Damage3245]

Got a quick TL;DR? I don't remember this thread at all.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Got a quick TL;DR? I don't remember this thread at all.

Yeah, sure. Basically, KT removed the SM and CM multipliers here. Rocker tried to reinstate them with this thread.
Then I had my own new proposal here, which kinda what we're discussing atm.

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah, sure. Basically, KT removed the SM and CM multipliers here. Rocker tried to reinstate them with this thread.
Then I had my own new proposal here, which kinda what we're discussing atm.

Your proposal seems okay at the moment. Lot to go through though so I'll give a final response tomorrow.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Your proposal seems okay at the moment. Lot to go through though so I'll give a final response tomorrow.

Alright, sounds good. Thanks for the help, Damage.

 

[PrinceofPein]

i Cant even remember my own arguments properly smh but i will reply later in the day

 

[PrinceofPein]

stuffs

reading well the majority of the thread again to see what the argument was about, i realized you did not address my point tbh.
my point was well
1. If the CM users are getting a 10 times amp then well Juugo is the original is also getting a 10 times amp (well i am not sure where you stand on this)
2. SM is inherently better than CM as per orochi life and Kabuto statments numerous ones
3. CM also helps gather nature energy like sage mode (well during the war when it was stated that nature energy was needed and naruto offered to give some to sasuke, sasuke said well he doesnt need him to and well he turned to juugo iirc, cant remember well enough)

punchline of my original argument was it is either no one gets the multiplier or well everyone but it makes no sense to give it to well the fakes like the sound 4 but wont give it to the original one juugo and well the actual SM users and yes kabuto statements proves that the actual SM is better, if it was not orochi will not spend his entire life looking for it after gettign the CM even though they are supposed to do the same thing

 

[KingTempest]

There is not a single statement that says that SM > CM

 

[PrinceofPein]

There is not a single statement that says that SM > CM

1. https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0579-016.png
Juugo clans original.power is sage mode, and orochimaru could not obtain it so he made setting else and yes kabuto considered it inferior to the actual thing called sage mode

2. https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0579-017.png

3. https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0579-018.png


There are many statements, the fact that orochimaru could not handle the SM power but could handle CM, and he was literally stated to not be interested in CM but in the actual thing which is SM btw. like literally stated " he is not interested in juggo's power but the real thing and that led him to Ryuuchi cave"
like it literally means SM is considered better than CM

 

[Damage3245]

Juugo clans original.power is sage mode, and orochimaru could not obtain it so he made setting else and yes kabuto considered it inferior to the actual thing called sage mode

When does he say it is inferior?

 

[PrinceofPein]

When does he say it is inferior?

mind telling me what this means
sasgay: "You are just like orochimaru you disgusting snake"
"You should know better i am no longer a snake, sage power as allowed me to shed that skin, i am a dragon................ He couldn't become the perfect sage that i have become"

and he was literally stated to not be interested in CM but in the actual thing which is SM btw. like literally stated " he is not interested in juggo's rampages (power) but the real thing and that led him to Ryuuchi cave"

then he went on about how orochimaru could not acquire it due to his body. so yes orochimaru settled for CM when he could not get SM

 

[Damage3245]

sasgay: "You are just like orochimaru you disgusting snake"
"You should know better i am no longer a snake, sage power as allowed me to shed that skin, i am a dragon................ He couldn't become the perfect sage that i have become"

Kabuto > Orochimaru at using Sage power.

Because Orochimaru's body wasn't good enough.

then he went on about how orochimaru could not acquire it due to his body. so yes orochimaru settled for CM when he could not get SM

That doesn't make CM inferior in power. CM could be considered inferior in that it drives people crazy like Jugo.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Isn’t Jugo’s clan’s power Sage Transformation (or the power to passively absorb Natural Energy) and not Sage Mode? The power Oro is searching for is the ability to use Natural Energy. Kabuto even says that Oro was searching for the source of his power which would refer to the successful utilisation of NE.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Kabuto > Orochimaru at using Sage power.

Because Orochimaru's body wasn't good enough.

i think you misunderstand this, it was not about the usage or the relation between orochimaru and kabuto
but orochimaru himself saying what he wants is not CM but the original thing called SM, then you bring kabuto into it he achieved SM ororchimaru achieved CM so he considered himself far greater.

but the two scenario goes hand in hand at saying SM > CM

That doesn't make CM inferior in power. CM could be considered inferior in that it drives people crazy like Jugo.

it does not drive everyone insane only jugo and well the ones in the prisons, but people like sound four and sasuke are perfectly fine so it is not about the fact drives people insane at all as anyone with a lil bit of talent is fine.

Isn’t Jugo’s clan’s power Sage Transformation (or the power to passively absorb Natural Energy) and not Sage Mode? The power Oro is searching for is the ability to use Natural Energy. Kabuto even says that Oro was searching for the source of his power which would refer to the successful utilisation of NE.

Yes the power is the ability to passively absorb sage energy something you need learn how to do at first to be capable of doing but his clans bloodline allows him to absorb it passively

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

reading well the majority of the thread again to see what the argument was about, i realized you did not address my point tbh.
my point was well
1. If the CM users are getting a 10 times amp then well Juugo is the original is also getting a 10 times amp (well i am not sure where you stand on this)
2. SM is inherently better than CM as per orochi life and Kabuto statments numerous ones
3. CM also helps gather nature energy like sage mode (well during the war when it was stated that nature energy was needed and naruto offered to give some to sasuke, sasuke said well he doesnt need him to and well he turned to juugo iirc, cant remember well enough)

punchline of my original argument was it is either no one gets the multiplier or well everyone but it makes no sense to give it to well the fakes like the sound 4 but wont give it to the original one juugo and well the actual SM users and yes kabuto statements proves that the actual SM is better, if it was not orochi will not spend his entire life looking for it after gettign the CM even though they are supposed to do the same thing

Pain, there a few things you need to wrap your head around.

• Orochimaru's Curse Mark is mechanically different from both SM and Juugo's Sage Transformation, as I have thoroughly explained already. I did not once speak on which one's superior or inferior, because that does not matter one bit. They are completely different in how they operate, and as such we cannot scale SM or Juugo's CM to the stated multiplier of the S4. SM being a superior or inferior power up to Juugo's doesn't mean anything here, because Juugo himself has no reason to scale to the amp the S4 receive from OROCHIMARU'S CHAKRA. The S4 aren't Sages, nor are they Sage Transformation users. They only gained the abilities granted by Juugo's Transformation, but fueled by Orochimaru's chakra instead of directly absorbing Natural Energy. You have provided no proof to your claim that the S4's Curse Marks function just like Juugo's or SM, or directly absorb Nature Energy. So most of your points are kinda moot, no offense.
• Nothing in Orochimaru's life suggests that SM is superior to the CM. All we know is that he was fascinated by the power of Juugo's clan, and sought to study it and obtain it for himself, which led him to its origins in Ryuchi Cave. His body was not strong enough to learn it at that point in time, which led him to developing alternatives. Some of these alternatives manifested in the form his own spin on Juugo's Sage Transformation, the Curse Mark, and his most powerful Jutsu to date, the Eight Branches Technique. Nothing was ever stated about Sage Mode being superior, or whatever.
• Sage Mode being the "origin" of that power does not confirm that it's superior to Juugo's Curse Mark, it just means that Juugo's Sage Transformation is a derivative of Sage Mode, which it is. Something can be derived from something else without being inferior to it in any way, we need direct confirmation for that. In practice, there's even evidence to the contrary quite frankly. To use your own example, I think most people on this forum would agree that EMS Sasuke is inferior in terms of power to Bijuu Mode Naruto as of the Juubito fight, yet with Juugo's Senjutsu amp he was able to fight perfectly on par with BSM Naruto. There is absolutely no real proof within the manga or DB to imply that SM is superior to Juugo's ability, and even if there were, it wouldn't matter against my argument because I am arguing that BOTH SM and Juugo's Sage Transformation should not scale to Orochimaru's Curse Mark.
• Finally, Kabuto stating that he surpassed Orochimaru means exactly that. He simply surpassed Orochimaru once he obtained Sage Mode (as well as numerous other enhancements on top of it), but it says nothing about the potency of the forms.

@Damage3245 ; Sorry for the ping, but could you give us your evaluation on this topic so we can finally get this over with. Only when you have the time though, I don't want to overwork you more than you already are.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm fine with your suggestion Uchiha.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I'm fine with your suggestion Uchiha.

Thank you. Should this be closed or should I wait for further input?

 

[Damage3245]

Well, changes should be made before the thread is closed.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Well, changes should be made before the thread is closed.

I'll go around checking the profiles just to be sure, but I'm pretty sure the multiplier was already removed from all the profiles thanks to Tempest's previous thread. As for reinstating it for Part I characters, we can just handle that during the P1 revisions which will be posted very soon (hopefully).

 

[BlackeJan]

So what are the conclusion?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

So what are the conclusion?

So in conclusion;
Who I think should definitely get the multiplier:

• Jirobo
• Kidomaru
• Tayuya
• Sakon

Who I think should probably get the multiplier:

• Kimimaro
• Part I Sasuke

Who I think should NOT get the multiplier:

• Juugo
• Sage Mode users

Who I think may or may not get the multiplier:
- Part II Sasuke

Well, changes should be made before the thread is closed.

So I checked around, and all Sage Mode users as well as Juugo don't currently have the Curse Mark "multiplier". Only the Sound 5 (and Part I Sasuke) currently have it, and their scaling will be ironed out during the upcoming Part I revisions. So I take it it's fine to close this, right?

 

[Damage3245]

Okay.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Alrighty then. Closing. Finally

 

[KingTempest]

I know it's closed, but just informing you that I haven't actually changed the Sound 4's multipliers because they scaled above Jirobo, so it was pretty redundant