Redoing the Curse mark multipliers

[KingTempest]

Spoiler

I mean I explained below he certainly did not look capable of movement heck he literally fell out of a tree he was standing on. Why would he fall out of a tree if he is not paralyzed? That makes no sense.

He flat out said "I can move" and he was trying to fall back so he could shoot the birds in the sky, which is why he said he missed.

Yes because he was incredibly surprised, he literally thought that Neji had died.

I know, but he should still capable of stopping himself from spinning in a circle.

I said the binding being chakra based Shikamaru talks about her chakra and her strength literally equating them to being complimentary.

No, he talks about chakra with the regular binding, then strength with the next binding after the regular one gets casually snapped off.

Gonna be honest he looks like he is struggling as much with both.

Those 2 are the same ones, neck binding.
This one is the regular one.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/863171196035661834/879915280900423680/0322-017.png?width=780&height=1171

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/863171196035661834/879915316434591754/0323-003.png?width=780&height=1171

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/863171196035661834/879921958786072626/0333-003.png?width=780&height=1171

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/863171196035661834/879922206837211176/0335-017.png?width=780&height=1171

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/863171196035661834/879922340023128074/0336-002.png?width=780&height=1171

Except when Tayuya breaks out of it.

It's hinted when he struggles with her with the neck binding, but not with the regular one.

That Sasuke had lower power and chakra due to using his space-time ninjutsu to get there and after seeing momoshiki it is when he decided to escape.

An even weaker one (since he brought more people into the dimension, plus fighting Kinshiki again) is around the level of Fused Momo, who's relative to SPSM Naruto (oof, who's more tired)

Honestly I dont agree but I would look at the others anyway.

I really dont think that is the case tbh. I doubt that a singular clash should mean that someone is comparable especially if they get stomped right after.

Depends on the clash. A random clash that has no significance like the one with Naruto and Kabuto, ok.
This one where they showed a shockwave larger than their bodies and it was a significant moment, difference.

But yeah

If they got stomped right after, fine.
If not, then no, it'd still be valid.

And tbh, we can axe that until WA Sasuke gets an upgrade. He's currently not accepted to scale to SPSM Naruto's physicals.

But we arent using the anime...

Fair.

I would have to disagree Isshiki was kinda stomping them all round tbh. Yeah they could somewhat keep up but I cant say that it was a fight. Only Bryon mode made it fair or slightly favourable to Naruto.

Which is true, but they could still take hits and block hits, which is enough to backscale, certainly not by 10x

I dont think he was, Code was however.

Just checked, nvm

The biological changes themselves really do not matter. The main thing is the boost in chakra and thus the boost in power. Yes people get some specific extras but the one consistent thing which matters is the chakra boost.

Kimimaro's biology is directly influenced in his power though.

Dance of the Clematis: Flower (Tessenka no Mai: Hana)​

An overly large bone spear, its hardness taken to the highest possible degree through compression and condensation. Handling it is not even worth considering without the physique that comes with Level 2.

Dance of the Clematis: Vine (Tessenka no Mai: Tsuru)​

In Level 2, the alterations to Kimimaro’s appearance are as sudden and drastic as they are terrible. Because of his tail, his spinal column is terrifyingly extensive.

The cartilage between the bones is elastic, which allows it the flexibility of a whip. As the distance to which it expands from it’s holder’s hand cannot be predicted, it is extremely difficult to avoid.

I agree that chakra amps are consistent.
Strength amps, are not.

I mean yeah after all it is all based on gathering natural energy which is exactly my point.

I mean with the consistency in abilities. Pure SM users like Naruto, Hashirama, and Minato don't get any special amps while with the CM, people get their own amps.

His CM2 disabled because he was dying. Again therw oudl be no reason for him to fall. He is kliterally falling and hitting logs and tree branches on the way so this is not a controlled jumping off.

Via above he was able to move, and his CM2 disabled the moment he got hit by Neji, it was perfectly fine before.

Yes this is a special armour that comes from his pores different to his attacking thing from his mouth.

Pretty much

Yes he does have force behind his attack that is obvious even gentle fist despite its name is quite ******* violent if you ask me. But anyway the point I was making is that spinning someone mid air should matter to their strength just their mass.

Alright, I can agree with this

Rock Lee still manipulates and uses chakra in his attacks he just can not use ninjutsu or genjutsu. Else there would be 0 point in opening the eight gates with literally block chakra flow until opened.

We discussed in the other thread that chakra amps can be used to amp physicals without chakra being used in techniques, and he flat out said that he doesn't use chakra.

He uses his regular stamina, not chakra.

I am going to be quite busy at work again from tomorrow since my short break is over I would try replying when I can. If I missed something in this reply please tell me cause even now I am a bit busy.

That's cool Rocker take your time, I think the only thing you missed was the mini paragraph (it's like a few lines of words not really a paragraph) and the Kidomaru thing

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I would like to reintroduce the major pieces of evidence I brought up in the previous thread as well to the people who are now disagreeing with the 10x multiplier. Guy, who in Base scales to Base Naruto, was told he would get in the way

Despite him having the Gates which boost him by more than 5x, as accepted here https://vsbattles.com/threads/might-guys-and-rock-lees-at-least-5x-multiplier-with-gates.54347/

SM>>5x, if 10x isn't accepted, this at least should be

Madara, who fought SM Hashirama, also fought KCM2 Naruto, and both are 6-C, and scale around 25 gigatons, and I know that kind of scaling isn't usually used as proof, but just as a little extra bit of evidence I thought it'd be a good thing to bring up as it brings consistency to the profiles

Jiraiya, who has imperfect SM, has a jutsu in SM that's a more than 10x stronger version of a Base attack of his

This argument was brought in refutation of it. "A statement for someone's technique comparable to a vague random jutsu does not support a multiplier for a transformation." But since SM is stated to be an amp to all of your ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu, implying it's an even holistic amp, then yes, getting a 10x amp to a random jutsu does support the form being 10x. The only difference between the normal version and sage version of the jutsu is the senjutsu amp. Plus it's not like the base flame bombs are unknown fodder jutsu, it's something Jiraiya deemed worthy against an Akatsuki member

Also, Jirobo's 10x AP CS is based on Jugo's SM if not inferior as implied by Kabuto, and Jugo's SM boosted EMS Sasuke to BSM Naruto level, implying the boost is equal.

And even if the Sound 4's boosts weren't all 10x to AP, since their CS takes Jugo's SM as a source which is an all around boost, all their 10x amps should apply to SM.

Also about Base Adult Naruto, I've said before that I believe he simply has his Six Paths powers aborbed into Base, that's the only explanation for him being low end relative to God Tiers, and would explain why the power boost provided by KCM is only marginal, because it's simply addition rather than multiplication.

 

[KingTempest]

I love arguing with 1 person saying "it's only 10x here" then arguing with another person saying "it's 10x everywhere"

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I love arguing with 1 person saying "it's only 10x here" then arguing with another person saying "it's 10x everywhere"

Crazy how different people have different opinions about the same thing, amirite? It's almost as if that's the whole reason sites like this one exist.

 

[KingTempest]

Crazy how different people have different opinions about the same thing, amirite? It's almost as if that's the whole reason sites like this one exist.

Yeah bro, weird

 

[Reio35]

Tempest packed up the naruto fan base once again.

 

[BlackeJan]

Tempest packed up the naruto fan base once again.

We get it. You're bias against Naruto

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I love arguing with 1 person saying "it's only 10x here" then arguing with another person saying "it's 10x everywhere"

If ur referring to me, I don't think it's a 10x speed boost.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I would like to reintroduce the major pieces of evidence I brought up in the previous thread as well to the people who are now disagreeing with the 10x multiplier. Guy, who in Base scales to Base Naruto, was told he would get in the way

Despite him having the Gates which boost him by more than 5x, as accepted here https://vsbattles.com/threads/might-guys-and-rock-lees-at-least-5x-multiplier-with-gates.54347/

SM>>5x, if 10x isn't accepted, this at least should be

Madara, who fought SM Hashirama, also fought KCM2 Naruto, and both are 6-C, and scale around 25 gigatons, and I know that kind of scaling isn't usually used as proof, but just as a little extra bit of evidence I thought it'd be a good thing to bring up as it brings consistency to the profiles

Jiraiya, who has imperfect SM, has a jutsu in SM that's a more than 10x stronger version of a Base attack of his

This argument was brought in refutation of it. "A statement for someone's technique comparable to a vague random jutsu does not support a multiplier for a transformation." But since SM is stated to be an amp to all of your ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu, implying it's an even holistic amp, then yes, getting a 10x amp to a random jutsu does support the form being 10x. The only difference between the normal version and sage version of the jutsu is the senjutsu amp. Plus it's not like the base flame bombs are unknown fodder jutsu, it's something Jiraiya deemed worthy against an Akatsuki member

Also, Jirobo's 10x AP CS is based on Jugo's SM if not inferior as implied by Kabuto, and Jugo's SM boosted EMS Sasuke to BSM Naruto level, implying the boost is equal.

And even if the Sound 4's boosts weren't all 10x to AP, since their CS takes Jugo's SM as a source which is an all around boost, all their 10x amps should apply to SM.

Also about Base Adult Naruto, I've said before that I believe he simply has his Six Paths powers aborbed into Base, that's the only explanation for him being low end relative to God Tiers, and would explain why the power boost provided by KCM is only marginal, because it's simply addition rather than multiplication.

Bump, especially to the Giant Flame Bombs part. That part is what really solidifies it in my mind. Everything else is slightly up to interpretation, but SM making ninjutsu more than 10x stronger is 100% Kishimoto confirming that he hadn't forgotten about the 10x CS multiplier and still considers it true.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

bump

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yeah bro, weird

I would like to reintroduce the major pieces of evidence I brought up in the previous thread as well to the people who are now disagreeing with the 10x multiplier. Guy, who in Base scales to Base Naruto, was told he would get in the way

Despite him having the Gates which boost him by more than 5x, as accepted here https://vsbattles.com/threads/might-guys-and-rock-lees-at-least-5x-multiplier-with-gates.54347/

SM>>5x, if 10x isn't accepted, this at least should be

Madara, who fought SM Hashirama, also fought KCM2 Naruto, and both are 6-C, and scale around 25 gigatons, and I know that kind of scaling isn't usually used as proof, but just as a little extra bit of evidence I thought it'd be a good thing to bring up as it brings consistency to the profiles

Jiraiya, who has imperfect SM, has a jutsu in SM that's a more than 10x stronger version of a Base attack of his

This argument was brought in refutation of it. "A statement for someone's technique comparable to a vague random jutsu does not support a multiplier for a transformation." But since SM is stated to be an amp to all of your ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu, implying it's an even holistic amp, then yes, getting a 10x amp to a random jutsu does support the form being 10x. The only difference between the normal version and sage version of the jutsu is the senjutsu amp. Plus it's not like the base flame bombs are unknown fodder jutsu, it's something Jiraiya deemed worthy against an Akatsuki member

Also, Jirobo's 10x AP CS is based on Jugo's SM if not inferior as implied by Kabuto, and Jugo's SM boosted EMS Sasuke to BSM Naruto level, implying the boost is equal.

And even if the Sound 4's boosts weren't all 10x to AP, since their CS takes Jugo's SM as a source which is an all around boost, all their 10x amps should apply to SM.

Also about Base Adult Naruto, I've said before that I believe he simply has his Six Paths powers aborbed into Base, that's the only explanation for him being low end relative to God Tiers, and would explain why the power boost provided by KCM is only marginal, because it's simply addition rather than multiplication.

Since you seem to be the one mostly arguing against the multiplier could you reply to this? I gave an argument to your argument about the toad flame bombs part. It's supported even more by an all around even amp being accepted by the wiki. "Stronger than before and should be comparable to his own durability as Sage Mode enhances all aspects of a person's Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Taijutsu equally"

 

[RanaProGamer]

Bump, I want to continue revising Pre-War and War Arc Shippuden, but the thread will b decided based on the conclusion of this thread.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Bump, I want to continue revising Pre-War and War Arc Shippuden, but the thread will b decided based on the conclusion of this thread.

You're a little bit late on that, Rana.
A revision thread will likely be posted on Friday. It's pretty much ready, we're just finalizing some stuff with Damage to make sure everything checks out.

 

[RanaProGamer]

You're a little bit late on that, Rana.
A revision thread will likely be posted on Friday. It's pretty much ready, we're just finalizing some stuff with Damage to make sure everything checks out.

Ah shucks, oh well. I'd still like this thread to conclude since it could make some difference if it gets accepted.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

You're a little bit late on that, Rana.
A revision thread will likely be posted on Friday. It's pretty much ready, we're just finalizing some stuff with Damage to make sure everything checks out.

Oh thank god. Finally.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yeah bro, weird

Hellooo?

Since you seem to be the one mostly arguing against the multiplier could you reply to this? I gave an argument to your argument about the toad flame bombs part. It's supported even more by an all around even amp being accepted by the wiki. "Stronger than before and should be comparable to his own durability as Sage Mode enhances all aspects of a person's Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Taijutsu equally"

 

[BlastX]

Not sure if I should but...Bump

 

[KingTempest]

Sorry I stopped getting notifications from this thread

Toad flame bombs would be it's own thing, not scaleable to all his other jutsu.

That one being 10x bigger doesn't mean it works for everything. The rasengans are more than 10x bigger, his swamp jutsu isn't

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Sorry I stopped getting notifications from this thread

Toad flame bombs would be it's own thing, not scaleable to all his other jutsu.

That one being 10x bigger doesn't mean it works for everything. The rasengans are more than 10x bigger, his swamp jutsu isn't

But sage mode being an even amp all around is accepted by the wiki

 

[KingTempest]

But sage mode being an even amp all around is accepted by the wiki

If ur referring to me, I don't think it's a 10x speed boost.

Make your mind up

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Make your mind up

In terms of ninjutsu genjutsu and taijutsu I mean

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Can't forget about this

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Alright, so the Part I revisions are coming up pretty soon. This multiplier isn't overly important in all honesty, but it would affect a handful of characters, so I think it'd be best to settle this thing before the revisions.
I've been thinking of a new possible proposal for a few days now, so I'll bring it up here. If it gets rejected, then whatever, ya'll can go back to the state of limbo you were in lol. I won't take part in overly long or circular debates, I simply don't have the time or patience, and I've got more important things to take care of. So I'd appreciate it if this got evaluated quickly, fairly, and objectively.

With that being said, let's get to it.

Spoiler: My proposal

So I've been thinking about it, and I noticed a few things wrong with my initial proposal for a Sage Mode multiplier. Now, it's true that Juugo's Curse Mark is a derivative of Sage Mode, as was stated by Kabuto. They functions essentially the same, empowering all of the user's capabilities in Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Taijutsu by drawing and absorbing Nature Energy, creating Senjutsu Chakra. This is all well and good, but the issue with that is that this doesn't actually apply to Orochimaru's Curse Mark. Some of you may be scratching your heads, so let me explain...

I'll keep this brief, but as you all know, Orochimaru's Curse Mark runs on a different energy source: Orochimaru's own chakra.
He simply injects his targets with his own chakra/consciousness, which they then draw upon to gain access the Curse Mark's power and associated abilities. Orochimaru originally acquired this power by experimenting on Juugo, isolating his bodily fluids and modifying them, and then injecting said chakra into other Shinobi. So while it is fundamentally based on the same thing, and presumably does include Juugo's own Senjutsu chakra in the mix, it is still different. Juugo himself confirmed as much when he said that his is called Sage Transformation, while in his "clones" it's called Curse Mark Transformation. Orochimaru himself is incapable of utilizing Sage Mode as well, further solidifying that they are pretty different in the end.

In the end, the Curse Mark, Juugo's Sage Transformation, and Sage Mode are certainly closely related, but they differ from each other in many regards. Juugo's Sage Transformation functions exactly like Sage Mode by absorbing NE, but the Curse Mark is fueled by Orochimaru's own chakra as well as Juugo's modified enzymes.

So what does this all mean, really? Well, simply put, it means that Sage Mode cannot scale to either Jirobo or Sakon's statements of gaining 10x more strength/chakra in their Second States. Neither can Juugo himself, actually.
There's simply no direct correlation between the two amps. In the Sound 4's case, all this means is that Orochimaru, a hilariously stronger individual, provided them with 10x more chakra than they already had. In SM and Juugo's case, however, we cannot prove that they absorb so much Senjutsu chakra to the point of increasing their chakra reserves by 10x.
Now I'm not really arguing that the Curse Mark is superior to Sage Mode, as I don't really believe that to be the case, but I am saying that it can't scale to the amps the S4 received, as it was provided through a MUCH STRONGER character's chakra amping MUCH WEAKER characters.


With that out of the way, I do think the Sound 4 should get the multiplier back. No offense, but I feel like the arguments used against the other members not receiving the same amps are a bit pedantic. They'd all been shown and/or stated to receive physical enhancements through their Curse Mark's Second State. There's way too many examples, and since I'm short on time, I'll just list the most vital ones. I'll skip Jirobo, since the statement comes from him in the first place, and him having the multiplier isn't even being contested. Yes, I'm too lazy.

Kidomaru:
This one was a bit funny tbh. Him somehow being stated to gain accuracy in CS2 also means that he was not amped overall. That's simply ridiculous, and outright untrue.
Like, the whole reason he used CS2 in the first place was because Neji was still able to somewhat deflect his attacks, and somewhat divert their paths using chakra, so he wanted to increase their force because the distance between them diminished their power....
In that same scan that says his accuracy was maximized, the same is said for his destructive power. He then demonstrates said increased power by plowing through both the forest and Neji. From this point forth, Neji had no hope of deflecting his attacks. All he could do was make sure it didn't pierce his most vital spots. Even when he increased his accuracy further, his destructive power went right up with it. If this doesn't count as a notable amp, I honestly don't know what does.

Tayuya:
Tayuya's interesting. She's often downplayed because she can use Genjutsu, and I have never seen that with any other character except Itachi. Anyway, she has no reason not to get the amp either.
For starters, there was a misconception in the Tayuya debunk. Her level two doesn't amp her Genjutsu, she has no Genjutsu outside of Level Two lol.
Here's what her Character File says:

[Genjutsu]
Level 2 Tayuya’s proud Genjutsu, Chuunin Shikamaru simply gets completely inserted into the powerful jutsu. Her originally powerful Genjutsu, the demon flute’s fascinating tone applies stimulation. Several dozen kinds of Genjutsu, an abundance of attacking ability of that level.

It's literally just talking about her Genjutsu in level two, there's absolutely no mention of it being amped. This is also consistent with the manga, where Tayuya says that as a Second State, she can perform all sorts of musical Genjutsu. No mention of any pre-existing genjutsu being amped, and certainly no showings to back up that claim either.
Even if her genjutsu was amped, that literally changes nothing. Increased chakra level amp a character's physical capabilities, as well as their Ninjutsu and Genjutsu prowess. More powerful Genjutsu and Ninjutsu often require more chakra to perform as well, so it would make sense. We see this concept at play dozens of times, and it's stated to be the case for Sage Mode amping Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Taijutsu, which the Curse Mark is based upon in theory. Characters being enhanced in a certain category isn't somehow indicative of them not being enhanced in other areas as well. That's very weird, and unsupported logic.

Anyway......
It's not like we don't see her getting her strength increased significantly as well. She easily overpowers Shikamaru's Shadow Paralysis Justsu that was completely binding her in CS1 with her raw strength, something that Shikamaru attributes to her increased chakra. (Crazy how chakra increases strength, I know...)
Even when Shikamaru uses a stronger binding Jutsu, Tayuya is still able to fight through it with her strength alone. When Shikamaru is much closer to her, dramatically increasing the hold of his Jutsu, it's still not enough to completely subdue her. Yeah, clearly just a genjutsu amp, with no physical enhancement whatsoever.....

Sakon:
This one's honestly very straight forward. Like, his chakra in his Second State is literally stated to be 10x what it was before. This just adds a great level of consistency to the Jirobo statement, and simply makes sense. It would be silly for Orochimaru to give one of the S4 a much bigger amp than the others for literally no reason, and with a statement like this, that was clearly not the case. With this statement it goes from "Yeah, wouldn't make sense to give Jirobo a much bigger amp, but we simply don't know for sure.." to "Yeah, it's clearly meant to be a 10x amp across the board".
The man has 10x more chakra than before, and with the same level of chakra control, the man gets 10x stronger. It's just that simple, so let's not overcomplicate it with weird assumptions and interpretations please.

Characters getting their abilities enhanced with chakra isn't valid grounds to say that they do not receive physical amps from chakra as well, especially when they both have feats of being much stronger than before and have no anti-feats disproving that they were amped to such extent.
The Sound 4 should definitely keep the multiplier.

Kimimaro and Sasuke:
This one's a bit more debatable. On the one hand, Kimi has the Cursed Seal of Earth, while Sasuke has its counterpart the Cursed Seal of Heaven, which are supposed to be superior to the other Cursed Seals as they were reserved for Orochimaru's future vessels. It would be extremely weird to say that Orochimaru gave them inferior Seals to the ones the S4 received, especially when Kimimaro was not only a member of that group, but also their leader and clearly the strongest of the bunch. He and Sasuke are also touted as the best Curse Mark users in general, so there is that. Juugo pretty much confirmed it when he praised Sasuke's control over the Curse Mark, as well as his strength, and compared him to Kimimaro. On the other hand, I guess it's not really confirmed that they have the same amp, but I think it logically makes sense for them to scale.

Sasuke in Shippuden could be a different story though. After three years of training, where he clearly got much more powerful, his natural chakra reserves likely increased as well. So claims that the amp wouldn't be the same for him at this point, even if it were 10x previously, would be understandable imo. Though I could be overthinking this. In any case, I'll leave this one up to you guys.

So in conclusion;
Who I think should definitely get the multiplier:

• Jirobo
• Kidomaru
• Tayuya
• Sakon

Who I think should probably get the multiplier:

• Kimimaro
• Part I Sasuke

Who I think should NOT get the multiplier:

• Juugo
• Sage Mode users

Who I think may or may not get the multiplier:
- Part II Sasuke

And that's pretty much what I honestly feel about the subject at the moment. I don't feel too strongly on this subject, so I won't be arguing for too long tbh. I just wanna get it over with so we can know for sure whether to use this in the Part I revisions or not.
If my proposal gets rejected, then I suggest closing this thread until Rocker returns because it was clearly going nowhere. Either that or get more staff to evaluate it, idk lol.
But yeah, have a good day I guess!

 

[Nierre]

wrong cause yes.

 

[BlastX]

TBF with Sage Mode Users, Jiraiya has his own x10 statement.

 

[Nierre]

I'll keep this brief, but as you all know, Orochimaru's Curse Mark runs on a different energy source: Orochimaru's own chakra.
He simply injects his targets with his own chakra/consciousness, which they then draw upon to gain access the Curse Mark's power and associated abilities. Orochimaru originally acquired this power by experimenting on Juugo, isolating his bodily fluids and modifying them, and then injecting said chakra into other Shinobi. So while it is fundamentally based on the same thing, and presumably does include Juugo's own Senjutsu chakra in the mix, it is still different. Juugo himself confirmed as much when he said that his is called Sage Transformation, while in his "clones" it's called Curse Mark Transformation. Orochimaru himself is incapable of utilizing Sage Mode as well, further solidifying that they are pretty different in the end.

In the end, the Curse Mark, Juugo's Sage Transformation, and Sage Mode are certainly closely related, but they differ from each other in many regards. Juugo's Sage Transformation functions exactly like Sage Mode by absorbing NE, but the Curse Mark is fueled by Orochimaru's own chakra as well as Juugo's modified enzymes.

Wait I'm still confused.. so what's the difference between Jugo's "Curse Mark" and any other Curse Mark? And why are they different?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

TBF with Sage Mode Users, Jiraiya has his own x10 statement.

That statement says that his Jutsu got 10x bigger, it's not necessarily an AP statement. Regardless, it's a separate topic. My post deals exclusively with the Curse Mark.

Wait I'm still confused.. so what's the difference between Jugo's "Curse Mark" and any other Curse Mark? And why are they different?

Juugo's is exactly like Sage Mode, it amps people by absorbing Nature Energy, while Orochimaru's Curse Mark amps people using a set amount of chakra given to them by Orochimaru. They operate using different batteries if that makes sense.

 

[Theendzero13]

Juugo's is exactly like Sage Mode, it amps people by absorbing Nature Energy, while Orochimaru's Curse Mark amps people using a set amount of chakra given to them by Orochimaru. They operate using different batteries if that makes sense.

Exactly, curse mark does not have a fixed multiplier because it is a linear addition of power

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Exactly, curse mark does not have a fixed multiplier because it is a linear addition of power

Right.
Naruto doesn't have Super Saiyan style multipliers in general, it's all based on chakra addition.
Still though, I think the Sound 4 and Kimi/Sasuke should probably scale to Jirobo and Sakon's statements for the reasons I laid out above.

 

[RanaProGamer]

Well, I do agree that the Curse Mark multiplier should at the very least apply to Sound 4 and Part 1 and Hebi Sasuke.

 

[Theendzero13]

Right.
Naruto doesn't have Super Saiyan style multipliers in general, it's all based on chakra addition.
Still though, I think the Sound 4 and Kimi/Sasuke should probably scale to Jirobo and Sakon's statements for the reasons I laid out above.

I agree the sound 4 should be getting 10× increases and likely kimmimaro and final valley sasuke since they got stronger curse marks and therefore more chackra,
but people like shippuden sasuke should not be getting those multipliers at all since by that point he was massively above his curse mark two even in base

 

[RanaProGamer]

Also, would this only apply to CS1 only, or CS2 as well?

 

[RanaProGamer]

shippuden sasuke should not be getting those multipliers at all since by that point he was massively above his curse mark two even in base

I disagree, the Curse Mark that Sasuke received was from a Prime Orochimaru, which remember, as stated by Suigetsu, that Sasuke only beat Orochimaru cuz he couldn't use his arms.

 

[Theendzero13]

I disagree, the Curse Mark that Sasuke received was from a Prime Orochimaru, which remember, as stated by Suigetsu, that Sasuke only beat Orochimaru cuz he couldn't use his arms.

Yeah every single curse mark was given by prime orochi, my main point is more like base sasuke already being far above his kid CS2 state therefore going curse mark 2 as a teen would not even be a 2 times increase
This is consistent with his CS2 form in the post timeskip do not having feats backing up a 10 times increase

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I agree the sound 4 should be getting 10× increases and likely kimmimaro and final valley sasuke since they got stronger curse marks and therefore more chackra,
but people like shippuden sasuke should not be getting those multipliers at all since by that point he was massively above his curse mark two even in base

I'm completely fine with this. It's basically what I proposed anyway XD

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Also, would this only apply to CS1 only, or CS2 as well?

CS2 obviously.

I disagree, the Curse Mark that Sasuke received was from a Prime Orochimaru, which remember, as stated by Suigetsu, that Sasuke only beat Orochimaru cuz he couldn't use his arms.

Orochimaru has nothing to do with it. He gave Sasuke a set level of chakra within that Curse Mark. Obviously Sasuke himself getting stronger would make the increase diminish.

Let's say Part I Sasuke's a 1 in base, while the Curse Mark is a 10. That makes CS2 Sasuke an 11.
If Part II Sasuke is a 5 in base, he'd be a 15 in CS2.
He's stronger overall, but the amp diminished.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Isn't sage mode >>>>> curse mark? And curse mark an incomplete method of sage mode?
So it does not make sense that an incomplete part would get the multiplier but the real one does not

 

[Damage3245]

Isn't sage mode >>>>> curse mark?

I'd like to see a scan for that if possible.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Isn't sage mode >>>>> curse mark? And curse mark an incomplete method of sage mode?
So it does not make sense that an incomplete part would get the multiplier but the real one does not

Read my post carefully.
Sage Mode and Juugo's Sage Transformation function differently from Orochimaru's Curse Mark as far as the chakra source they draw from. In SM and Juugo's case, it's nature energy. In the Curse Mark's case, it's a set amount of chakra given to the users by Orochimaru himself. There's no real correlation between the two, and there's no set multiplier at play here.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

If these transformations come from adding chakra from one source to another, why are we trying to generalize a multiplier?

Maybe for character A, who has a source of 1, getting added a source of 9 would amp their source from 1 to 10 aka 10x, but if someone has a source of a 9, adding that same source of 9 only doubles it.

Unless I’m misinterpreting what UchihaSlayer is saying by adding sources of course.