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Redoing the Curse mark multipliers

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If these transformations come from adding chakra from one source to another, why are we trying to generalize a multiplier?

Maybe for character A, who has a source of 1, getting added a source of 9 would amp their source from 1 to 10 aka 10x, but if someone has a source of a 9, adding that same source of 9 only doubles it.

Unless I’m misinterpreting what UchihaSlayer is saying by adding sources of course.
I think we are generalizing it for the sound four because they all comparable and both sakon/ukon as well as jirobo got the same comfirmed increase
Kimimaro and kid sasuke are also should have a 10 times increase because their curse marks are canonically stronger than the others
 
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If they’re comparable in base sure, because your adding the same amp to the same baseline, but I disagree if they’re not comparable in base.
 
If these transformations come from adding chakra from one source to another, why are we trying to generalize a multiplier?

Maybe for character A, who has a source of 1, getting added a source of 9 would amp their source from 1 to 10 aka 10x, but if someone has a source of a 9, adding that same source of 9 only doubles it.

Unless I’m misinterpreting what UchihaSlayer is saying by adding sources of course.
I see you have inherited the mantle of the pfp
 
If these transformations come from adding chakra from one source to another, why are we trying to generalize a multiplier?

Maybe for character A, who has a source of 1, getting added a source of 9 would amp their source from 1 to 10 aka 10x, but if someone has a source of a 9, adding that same source of 9 only doubles it.

Unless I’m misinterpreting what UchihaSlayer is saying by adding sources of course.
No, you're right. It's not a multiplier at all. And Sage Mode does have a different source from Orochimaru's Curse Mark.
I'm just arguing that the characters I mentioned should get the same amp for the reasons I mentioned in my post.
 
No, you're right. It's not a multiplier at all. And Sage Mode does have a different source from Orochimaru's Curse Mark.
I'm just arguing that the characters I mentioned should get the same amp for the reasons I mentioned in my post.
Cool thanks for the clarification, that was my only initial concern when reading the replies, I trust your judgment for that massive post lel.
 
Alright, so the Part I revisions are coming up pretty soon. This multiplier isn't overly important in all honesty, but it would affect a handful of characters, so I think it'd be best to settle this thing before the revisions.
I've been thinking of a new possible proposal for a few days now, so I'll bring it up here. If it gets rejected, then whatever, ya'll can go back to the state of limbo you were in lol. I won't take part in overly long or circular debates, I simply don't have the time or patience, and I've got more important things to take care of. So I'd appreciate it if this got evaluated quickly, fairly, and objectively.

With that being said, let's get to it.

So I've been thinking about it, and I noticed a few things wrong with my initial proposal for a Sage Mode multiplier. Now, it's true that Juugo's Curse Mark is a derivative of Sage Mode, as was stated by Kabuto. They functions essentially the same, empowering all of the user's capabilities in Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Taijutsu by drawing and absorbing Nature Energy, creating Senjutsu Chakra. This is all well and good, but the issue with that is that this doesn't actually apply to Orochimaru's Curse Mark. Some of you may be scratching your heads, so let me explain...

I'll keep this brief, but as you all know, Orochimaru's Curse Mark runs on a different energy source: Orochimaru's own chakra.
He simply injects his targets with his own chakra/consciousness, which they then draw upon to gain access the Curse Mark's power and associated abilities. Orochimaru originally acquired this power by experimenting on Juugo, isolating his bodily fluids and modifying them, and then injecting said chakra into other Shinobi. So while it is fundamentally based on the same thing, and presumably does include Juugo's own Senjutsu chakra in the mix, it is still different. Juugo himself confirmed as much when he said that his is called Sage Transformation, while in his "clones" it's called Curse Mark Transformation. Orochimaru himself is incapable of utilizing Sage Mode as well, further solidifying that they are pretty different in the end.

In the end, the Curse Mark, Juugo's Sage Transformation, and Sage Mode are certainly closely related, but they differ from each other in many regards. Juugo's Sage Transformation functions exactly like Sage Mode by absorbing NE, but the Curse Mark is fueled by Orochimaru's own chakra as well as Juugo's modified enzymes.

So what does this all mean, really? Well, simply put, it means that Sage Mode cannot scale to either Jirobo or Sakon's statements of gaining 10x more strength/chakra in their Second States. Neither can Juugo himself, actually.
There's simply no direct correlation between the two amps. In the Sound 4's case, all this means is that Orochimaru, a hilariously stronger individual, provided them with 10x more chakra than they already had. In SM and Juugo's case, however, we cannot prove that they absorb so much Senjutsu chakra to the point of increasing their chakra reserves by 10x.
Now I'm not really arguing that the Curse Mark is superior to Sage Mode, as I don't really believe that to be the case, but I am saying that it can't scale to the amps the S4 received, as it was provided through a MUCH STRONGER character's chakra amping MUCH WEAKER characters.


With that out of the way, I do think the Sound 4 should get the multiplier back. No offense, but I feel like the arguments used against the other members not receiving the same amps are a bit pedantic. They'd all been shown and/or stated to receive physical enhancements through their Curse Mark's Second State. There's way too many examples, and since I'm short on time, I'll just list the most vital ones. I'll skip Jirobo, since the statement comes from him in the first place, and him having the multiplier isn't even being contested. Yes, I'm too lazy.

Kidomaru:
This one was a bit funny tbh. Him somehow being stated to gain accuracy in CS2 also means that he was not amped overall. That's simply ridiculous, and outright untrue.
Like, the whole reason he used CS2 in the first place was because Neji was still able to somewhat deflect his attacks, and somewhat divert their paths using chakra, so he wanted to increase their force because the distance between them diminished their power....
In that same scan that says his accuracy was maximized, the same is said for his destructive power. He then demonstrates said increased power by plowing through both the forest and Neji. From this point forth, Neji had no hope of deflecting his attacks. All he could do was make sure it didn't pierce his most vital spots. Even when he increased his accuracy further, his destructive power went right up with it. If this doesn't count as a notable amp, I honestly don't know what does.

Tayuya:
Tayuya's interesting. She's often downplayed because she can use Genjutsu, and I have never seen that with any other character except Itachi. Anyway, she has no reason not to get the amp either.
For starters, there was a misconception in the Tayuya debunk. Her level two doesn't amp her Genjutsu, she has no Genjutsu outside of Level Two lol.
Here's what her Character File says:


It's literally just talking about her Genjutsu in level two, there's absolutely no mention of it being amped. This is also consistent with the manga, where Tayuya says that as a Second State, she can perform all sorts of musical Genjutsu. No mention of any pre-existing genjutsu being amped, and certainly no showings to back up that claim either.
Even if her genjutsu was amped, that literally changes nothing. Increased chakra level amp a character's physical capabilities, as well as their Ninjutsu and Genjutsu prowess. More powerful Genjutsu and Ninjutsu often require more chakra to perform as well, so it would make sense. We see this concept at play dozens of times, and it's stated to be the case for Sage Mode amping Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Taijutsu, which the Curse Mark is based upon in theory. Characters being enhanced in a certain category isn't somehow indicative of them not being enhanced in other areas as well. That's very weird, and unsupported logic.

Anyway......
It's not like we don't see her getting her strength increased significantly as well. She easily overpowers Shikamaru's Shadow Paralysis Justsu that was completely binding her in CS1 with her raw strength, something that Shikamaru attributes to her increased chakra. (Crazy how chakra increases strength, I know...)
Even when Shikamaru uses a stronger binding Jutsu, Tayuya is still able to fight through it with her strength alone. When Shikamaru is much closer to her, dramatically increasing the hold of his Jutsu, it's still not enough to completely subdue her. Yeah, clearly just a genjutsu amp, with no physical enhancement whatsoever.....

Sakon:
This one's honestly very straight forward. Like, his chakra in his Second State is literally stated to be 10x what it was before. This just adds a great level of consistency to the Jirobo statement, and simply makes sense. It would be silly for Orochimaru to give one of the S4 a much bigger amp than the others for literally no reason, and with a statement like this, that was clearly not the case. With this statement it goes from "Yeah, wouldn't make sense to give Jirobo a much bigger amp, but we simply don't know for sure.." to "Yeah, it's clearly meant to be a 10x amp across the board".
The man has 10x more chakra than before, and with the same level of chakra control, the man gets 10x stronger. It's just that simple, so let's not overcomplicate it with weird assumptions and interpretations please.

Characters getting their abilities enhanced with chakra isn't valid grounds to say that they do not receive physical amps from chakra as well, especially when they both have feats of being much stronger than before and have no anti-feats disproving that they were amped to such extent.
The Sound 4 should definitely keep the multiplier.

Kimimaro and Sasuke:
This one's a bit more debatable. On the one hand, Kimi has the Cursed Seal of Earth, while Sasuke has its counterpart the Cursed Seal of Heaven, which are supposed to be superior to the other Cursed Seals as they were reserved for Orochimaru's future vessels. It would be extremely weird to say that Orochimaru gave them inferior Seals to the ones the S4 received, especially when Kimimaro was not only a member of that group, but also their leader and clearly the strongest of the bunch. He and Sasuke are also touted as the best Curse Mark users in general, so there is that. Juugo pretty much confirmed it when he praised Sasuke's control over the Curse Mark, as well as his strength, and compared him to Kimimaro. On the other hand, I guess it's not really confirmed that they have the same amp, but I think it logically makes sense for them to scale.

Sasuke in Shippuden could be a different story though. After three years of training, where he clearly got much more powerful, his natural chakra reserves likely increased as well. So claims that the amp wouldn't be the same for him at this point, even if it were 10x previously, would be understandable imo. Though I could be overthinking this. In any case, I'll leave this one up to you guys.

So in conclusion;
Who I think should definitely get the multiplier:
  • Jirobo
  • Kidomaru
  • Tayuya
  • Sakon
Who I think should probably get the multiplier:
  • Kimimaro
  • Part I Sasuke
Who I think should NOT get the multiplier:
  • Juugo
  • Sage Mode users
Who I think may or may not get the multiplier:
- Part II Sasuke

And that's pretty much what I honestly feel about the subject at the moment. I don't feel too strongly on this subject, so I won't be arguing for too long tbh. I just wanna get it over with so we can know for sure whether to use this in the Part I revisions or not.
If my proposal gets rejected, then I suggest closing this thread until Rocker returns because it was clearly going nowhere. Either that or get more staff to evaluate it, idk lol.
But yeah, have a good day I guess! 🎆 🔥 🙏 🎆 🔥
I agree with the ppl you think should get the multiplier, not sure about who you think shouldn't.
That statement says that his Jutsu got 10x bigger, it's not necessarily an AP statement.
That's the same thing.
 
I agree with the ppl you think should get the multiplier, not sure about who you think shouldn't.
Alright I guess.
That's the same thing.
I'm not sure myself.
Though I do suggest making a separate thread for it because this thread, as well as the previous two made by Tempest and myself, mainly dealt with Curse Mark related scaling. Jiraiya's statement wasn't part of any of these OPs, so it might be a better idea to have a fresh new discussion about that statement once the Curse Mark business is settled. Or you can continue to discuss it here, it's up to you lol.
 
I'd like to see a scan for that if possible.
Uhhhm the fact that orochimaru created it cause he could not get the actual sage mode and all of kabuto wankjng himself? And the entire arc when they went to take juugo from prison
Read my post carefully.
Sage Mode and Juugo's Sage Transformation function differently from Orochimaru's Curse Mark as far as the chakra source they draw from. In SM and Juugo's case, it's nature energy. In the Curse Mark's case, it's a set amount of chakra given to the users by Orochimaru himself. There's no real correlation between the two, and there's no set multiplier at play here.
This is oddly wrong, orochimaru curse mark is a modified form.of juugo sage transformation, both of them gather sage energy for use, my own point is
Juugo transformation >>>>> curse mark transformation, juugo literally called people with curse marks trash compared to him. And by extension sage mode>>>> curse seals
So it is either the multipliers are thrown out all together or everyone gets it.
 
This is oddly wrong, orochimaru curse mark is a modified form.of juugo sage transformation, both of them gather sage energy for use, my own point is
No, the curse mark that the sound 4 and Sasuke use doesn't collect Nature Energy, it fuels itself on Orochimaru's own chakra. If you have scans saying otherwise, I'd appreciate it if you shared them.
Juugo transformation >>>>> curse mark transformation,
Could you stop it with the baseless ">>>>>>>"? Where's that even from...
juugo literally called people with curse marks trash compared to him. And by extension sage mode>>>> curse seals
So it is either the multipliers are thrown out all together or everyone gets it.
Him being stronger than people with Curse Mark doesn't mean he gets the same amp as them, it just means he's stronger than them.
 
I think Sasuke shoult get the multiplier if others are getting them. Even his Part 2 version, I don't recall a change in his CM.
 
I think Sasuke shoult get the multiplier if others are getting them. Even his Part 2 version, I don't recall a change in his CM.
Not his CM, but his base got stronger. People getting stronger usually entails an increase in chakra reserves as well, which would potentially diminish the amp he receives.
But honestly, I'm neutral on Sasuke, so I'm fine with it either way.
 
Here is the thing is not the curse mark that changed, sasuke is the one who got stronger therefore making the increase lesser , since the curse mark is not a fixed multiplier but a set amount of orochimaru chakra that he puts on people, here is an equation for a easier explanation:
( base sasuke numbers are just for the example )
Kid sasuke:
( 1 point of chakra ) + curse mark (9 points of orochimaru chakra) = curse mark two sasuke (10 points of chakra)
Teen sasuke;
(10 points of chakra) + curse mark(9 points of orochimaru chakra)=curse mark two teen sasuke (19 points)

The chackra increase was equal but the multiplier decreased
 
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Not his CM, but his base got stronger. People getting stronger usually entails an increase in chakra reserves as well, which would potentially diminish the amp he receives.
But honestly, I'm neutral on Sasuke, so I'm fine with it either way.
I think is straight up confirmed that their chakra increase with training
(99% sure there was evidence for this on the chakra:stats thread)
 
I'm not sure myself.
Though I do suggest making a separate thread for it because this thread, as well as the previous two made by Tempest and myself, mainly dealt with Curse Mark related scaling. Jiraiya's statement wasn't part of any of these OPs, so it might be a better idea to have a fresh new discussion about that statement once the Curse Mark business is settled. Or you can continue to discuss it here, it's up to you lol.
Meh sure, it's not getting any traction as it is.
 
If they’re comparable in base sure, because your adding the same amp to the same baseline, but I disagree if they’re not comparable in base.
Definitely not comparable in base.


@UchihaSlayer96 My issue isn't "10x chakra amount", my issue is "10x chakra ≠ 10x strength", which a lot of people misunderstand.

Jirobo's statement says "10x stronger". Directly 10x stronger. We know Jirobo's secret to his strength is his physical brute strength and him adding chakra to it.

We don't know
A. If 10x chakra amount = 10x stronger (And everyone don't say "Well why wouldn't it be???")
B. If they have the same/better chakra control than Jirobo to gain the same amp.


As for the post directly, I don't need to tackle each point exactly, cause you misunderstood it.

Aside from Jirobo's chakra absorbing earth wall, he's a physical strength dude. He uses all his chakra for his physical strength.
These guys get separate amps that spread throughout their techniques.

If Jirobo has a 1 for his strength and everything else and he has 9 for his chakra amp, he puts 9 on strength, making him 10x stronger.

Kidomaru, Tayuya, Sakon/Ukon, Kimimaro, and in extension Sasuke, have different places where they put the chakra. They don't put all 9 on strength. They have ninjutsu they throw it on. Their skills get better.

But for each individual point.

Kidomaru​

In that same scan that says his accuracy was maximized, the same is said for his destructive power. He then demonstrates said increased power by plowing through both the forest and Neji. From this point forth, Neji had no hope of deflecting his attacks. All he could do was make sure it didn't pierce his most vital spots. Even when he increased his accuracy further, his destructive power went right up with it. If this doesn't count as a notable amp, I honestly don't know what does.
I've tackled this on the previous page.
He gets higher attack power because his curse mark provides him a bow, which he can manipulate with his 6 arms and 2 legs to amp the tension in the bow. Stated by the databook.
Level 2: He wields a bow and arrow made from hardened web in “Level 2”. By using projectile weapons his attacks becomes even tougher.

Spider War Bow: Terrible Split (Kumo Senkyu: Suzaku)​

  • Ninjutsu, Hiden, Offensive, Long range
  • User(s): Kidoumaru
The devastating 8-legged bow of despair!!

A destructive archery jutsu that is the perfect one hit kill. By using his eight limbs, Kidoumaru can boost the tension in the bow to extraordinary level.
Says nothing about his physical strength. It talks about how he gets a new bow which he can use his already many limbs to amp his power.
It didn't even say that his limbs got amped.

And you're trying to take every interpretation of power as an amp from the CM.

When he amped it even further he added spin on the bow.
He didn't amp his physicals by absorbing even more nature energy like Tayuya did, he just spun his bow.

Tayuya​

Anyway......
It's not like we don't see her getting her strength increased significantly as well. She easily overpowers Shikamaru's Shadow Paralysis Justsu that was completely binding her in CS1 with her raw strength, something that Shikamaru attributes to her increased chakra. (Crazy how chakra increases strength, I know...)
Even when Shikamaru uses a stronger binding Jutsu, Tayuya is still able to fight through it with her strength alone. When Shikamaru is much closer to her, dramatically increasing the hold of his Jutsu, it's still not enough to completely subdue her. Yeah, clearly just a genjutsu amp, with no physical enhancement whatsoever.....
I've tackled this on the previous page
Correct, it's not right.

The Shadow Bind Technique does not physically bind you. That is the job of the Shadow Neck Binding technique, which is noticed by its difference that its physical and actually puts pressure by Tayuya.

You used 2 completely different jutsu which is stated on the page right before your scan that it's a different jutsu.

This is also stated by the databook.

Shadow Neck-Binding Technique (Kage Kubi Shibari no Jutsu)​

  • Ninjutsu, Hiden, Offensive, Close to mid range
  • User(s): Nara Shikamaru, Nara Shikaku
Strange shadows shaped after hands. They bind themselves around the neck and steal life away!!

A more battle-oriented jutsu developed from Nara Clan’s Hiden, Shadow Imitation. The shadow is endowed with physical strength, and by transforming it and setting it in motion, one can deal direct damage to the enemy. The most efficient way to do so is strangulation, hence the name.

The shorter the distance towards the target, the stronger the shadow gets.

Your false equivalence for 2 completely different jutsu is hilarious. You used her breaking out of the shadow bind which works with the same potency regardless of distance, then you used Shikamaru struggling with a completely different jutsu

The Shadow Bind is broken by having strong chakra, but the Shadow Neck Binding is broken via physical strength.

Shadow Bind​

That technique is broken by having strong chakra, which is why Shikamaru said that only Naruto could break out of his jutsu because of his tailed beast, which is directly correlated to the ridiculous amounts of chakra, but no matter how strong Kurotsuchi's Kekkei Genkai was she wouldn't break out.
Shown again when he breaks out of another Nara's jutsu and they emphasize the strength of his CHAKRA.
Shown that people even far stronger than him in AP can't break out of his jutsu consistently, like with Hidan when he consistently bound him with his jutsu, and he only couldn't when his chakra got low.

Shadow Neck Binding​

Physical strength.
Physical strength.

Sakon/Ukon​

This one's honestly very straight forward. Like, his chakra in his Second State is literally stated to be 10x what it was before. This just adds a great level of consistency to the Jirobo statement, and simply makes sense. It would be silly for Orochimaru to give one of the S4 a much bigger amp than the others for literally no reason, and with a statement like this, that was clearly not the case. With this statement it goes from "Yeah, wouldn't make sense to give Jirobo a much bigger amp, but we simply don't know for sure.." to "Yeah, it's clearly meant to be a 10x amp across the board".
The man has 10x more chakra than before, and with the same level of chakra control, the man gets 10x stronger. It's just that simple, so let's not overcomplicate it with weird assumptions and interpretations please.
It's baseless he has the same level of chakra control.

My point isn't the chakra amp, it's the strength amp tied to it which isn't 1:1 with everybody.
Kimimaro and Sasuke:
This one's a bit more debatable. On the one hand, Kimi has the Cursed Seal of Earth, while Sasuke has its counterpart the Cursed Seal of Heaven, which are supposed to be superior to the other Cursed Seals as they were reserved for Orochimaru's future vessels. It would be extremely weird to say that Orochimaru gave them inferior Seals to the ones the S4 received, especially when Kimimaro was not only a member of that group, but also their leader and clearly the strongest of the bunch. He and Sasuke are also touted as the best Curse Mark users in general, so there is that. Juugo pretty much confirmed it when he praised Sasuke's control over the Curse Mark, as well as his strength, and compared him to Kimimaro. On the other hand, I guess it's not really confirmed that they have the same amp, but I think it logically makes sense for them to scale.
Praising his strength and comparing his strength to Kidomaru when we know exactly how strong this Sasuke was is crazy to say the least. Praising his strength over blocking a punch makes little to no sense when he didn't know his base capabilities at that point in time.

I could've sworn earlier, if not the last thread, that because of the "Stronger than Jirobo" statements they would scale above his amp, which I heavily disagree with, but since "stronger" statements are cherry picked I ignored it.
But saying they get the same amp in 1 department is extremely baseless.
 
That statement says that his Jutsu got 10x bigger, it's not necessarily an AP statement. Regardless, it's a separate topic. My post deals exclusively with the Curse Mark.
It’s pretty much does. If Naruto can make a big ass FRS while in SM, it already means more power.

it’s like saying Rasengan and Giant Rasengan are pretty much equal in AP because one is just bigger
 
Damn I thought I deleted the message already, it was not yet complete and j posted it by mistake lol, so I had to delete it
But yes he did reflect all the kunai yoroi threw at him back at yoroi
 
Would you look at this while finding scans I saw this, sasuke should get attack reflection, he could send yoroi's kunai back at him perfectly

Anyway I apologize if I am a bit sarcastic or sassy in my next replies

No, the curse mark that the sound 4 and Sasuke use doesn't collect Nature Energy, it fuels itself on Orochimaru's own chakra. If you have scans saying otherwise, I'd appreciate it if you shared them.
Lol then orochimaru must have infinite chakra then, since he split his chakra in between so many people and they are all drawing on it at once or he replenishes it for them.from.time to time? Lol
They obviously gather sage energy too naturally like juugo if they work similar to how jugo's own does which they do
Nowhere was it stated that it fuels itself on orochimari chakra that was sealed within them, the best explanation is that the seal helps them.gather nature energy and that's what is used everytime, we only know the seal used contains orochimaru chakra and consciousness but uses the users chakra in exchange for the nature energy they gain.
But my scans for my reasoning is below

Could you stop it with the baseless ">>>>>>>"? Where's that even from...
Lol he is the original one, obviously he is better and has stated also he makes statements like the one below and also the fact when they transform they literally have the same effect, transformation, power boost and uncontrollable blood lust
1. https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0351-007.png
Calling others copycats, so it makes no sense that the copy cats gets a 10X boost but the original won't, but this is not all and relevant it was kabuto said that is interesting, all these kabuto statements only says one thing
Sage mode >>>>> curse mark transformation of orochimaru
1. https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0579-016.png
Juugo clans original.power is sage mode, and orochimaru could not obtain it so he made setting else and yes kabuto considered it inferior to the actual thing called sage mode

2. https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0579-017.png

3. https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0579-018.png




Him being stronger than people with Curse Mark doesn't mean he gets the same amp as them, it just means he's stronger than them.
It is literally the same thing, he is just a complete version
1. https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0349-009.png
This scan says achieve the same state as Jugo, the same = ident
2. And in fact all of them at a glance give off the same aura/chakra at a glance and needed karin to concentrate to be able to tell them apart, yeah same karin that naturally can sense who is who from afar without needing to concentrate
3. And here is a databook of juugo that says what juugo transformation does, which is gather nature energy


Which means his copycats too does the same, and from.what we know the curse seal is an inferior version to sage mode as I have stated above. So it makes absolutely no sense for the copycats to get a 10X boost but the original and those who can achieve a perfect sage mode don't get it.
It's either they all get it or no one does.
 
@KingTempest
"Says nothing about his physical strength. It talks about how he gets a new bow which he can use his already many limbs to amp his power.
It didn't even say that his limbs got amped.
And you're trying to take every interpretation of power as an amp from the
When he amped it even further he added spin on the bow.
He didn't amp his physicals by absorbing even more nature energy like Tayuya did, he just spun his bow"


Sorry Tempest but this is arguably one of the worst arguments I've heard in a long time. Firing a bow is OBJECTIVELY a Physical strength feat, it's why Draw strength is a thing in archery and why not every person can wield every bow, The higher the tension the more Physical strength you need to be able to pull it back.
 
In any case I don't really care about the Multipliers themselves and if they scale linearly, so I won't contribute more to this thread in that regard.
 
@KingTempest
"Says nothing about his physical strength. It talks about how he gets a new bow which he can use his already many limbs to amp his power.
It didn't even say that his limbs got amped.
And you're trying to take every interpretation of power as an amp from the
When he amped it even further he added spin on the bow.
He didn't amp his physicals by absorbing even more nature energy like Tayuya did, he just spun his bow"


Sorry Tempest but this is arguably one of the worst arguments I've heard in a long time. Firing a bow is OBJECTIVELY a Physical strength feat, it's why Draw strength is a thing in archery and why not every person can wield every bow, The higher the tension the more Physical strength you need to be able to pull it back.
I'm referring to how his physical strength wasn't the one stated to be amped and he got a bow which made his attacks stronger, and it wasn't just his physical strength which made his attacks stronger
 
I'm referring to how his physical strength wasn't the one stated to be amped and he got a bow which made his attacks stronger, and it wasn't just his physical strength which made his attacks stronger
Why would the curse mark which has consistently shown to increase your stats exclude a person who can only fire a bow in a specific state using a weapon that requires physical strength?
 
Why would the curse marks which has consistently been shown to increase your stats exclude a person who can only fire a bow in a specific state using a weapon that requires physical strength?
That's not the point I'm making.

I'm saying that the argument of "Curse Mark enhances strength because this character is stronger in CM2 via his bow" is flawed, because he has the same amount of limbs in his base form, he's just using those limbs for his bow.

Every Curse Mark increases stats, I'm not declining that.

But the argument of Kidomaru with the bow is not a good example.
 
It’s a magic chakra bow right? It doesn’t necessarily have to be 1 to 1 with irl bows, especially when irl bows work to give you the mechanical advantage.
 
It’s a magic chakra bow right? It doesn’t necessarily have to be 1 to 1 with irl bows, especially when irl bows work to give you the mechanical advantage.
it's a chakra bow that requires you to physically pull with the strength being stated to come from the tension in the strings so no.
 

Spider War Bow: Terrible Split (Kumo Senkyu: Suzaku)​

  • Ninjutsu, Hiden, Offensive, Long range
  • User(s): Kidoumaru
The devastating 8-legged bow of despair!!

A destructive archery jutsu that is the perfect one hit kill. By using his eight limbs, Kidoumaru can boost the tension in the bow to extraordinary level. Also, by attaching a chakra thread to the arrow he can control it up to 50 metres from his target, achieving an astounding accuracy.
 
I'm saying that the argument of "Curse Mark enhances strength because this character is stronger in CM2 via his bow" is flawed, because he has the same amount of limbs in his base form, he's just using those limbs for his bow.
He wouldn't need to transform if the only thing that separates his AP is that he has a bow, because a bow doesn't increase your AP by such an extreme amount.

But the argument of Kidomaru with the bow is not a good example.
He is, using a bow is a Physical feat, if bob the butterhead can summon a 10 ton sword in his second form he needs to have the Physical strength to wield it, if he can wield it without transforming then it's superfluous to increase your stats in the first place and thus makes the form redundant.
 
He wouldn't need to transform if the only thing that separates his AP is that he has a bow, because a bow doesn't increase your AP by such an extreme amount.
The databook apparently says it does, and he would need to transform to create the bow.

His character profile says this
Level 2: He wields a bow and arrow made from hardened web in “Level 2”. By using projectile weapons his attacks becomes even tougher.
He is, using a bow is a Physical feat, if bob the butterhead can summon a 10 ton sword in his second form he needs to have the Physical strength to wield it, if he can wield it without transforming then it's superfluous to increase your stats in the first place and thus makes the form redundant.
Because the form is required to make the bow. It's a note on the enhancement of his chakra making harder web, not enhancement on his strength
 
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