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Kinda hard to believe that some serial killer like Jack was durable enough to take blows from Hercules when he was alive
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Record of Ragnarok: Whatever the hell happened to this verse
- Thread starter OppaiSenpai5
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- record of ragnarok
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- Thread starter
- #122
He's not alive though, and seeing is believing.
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I don't recall Jack getting that much direct attacks, the first attack he received made him spit blood and wasn't even a direct hit, plus he was severe damaged after falling over a spike.
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- Thread starter
- #124
He didn't fall over the spike, Herc with Cerberus punched him into it. Jack used the opportunity to take the spike and hide it to use it as a weapon later.
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Jack does survive hits from Herc yes, although it's clear that Herc is way stronger than him.
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Hm, could be, I don't remember the scene that well, but it's obvious that Heracles is leagues above him (regarding to combat) and Jack couldn't damage him without his Volund. Whenever Jack have or not supernatural conditions is not important tho.
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To this day I still wonder why they gave him one
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To increase his chances of winning most likely
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But....the volund did nothing....and adam could kill gods even without a volund as shown before
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By the way, the talk about Shiva being planetary is literally just WWE-style hype in-universe. His whole backstory debunks him having that role and having created the world.
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Yeah, him creating the world was a mistranslation and him destroying it is that announcer guy hyping him up, which is not a reliable statement by any stretch of the imagination.
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I dont think anyone has taken the word of heimdall seriously. He is the announcer, his job is to hype the competitors and their abilities
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A little late to the party, but her we go:
Statements:
From what I've seen so far, the current translation seem to be argued as mistranslations. I would like to say that all these current translations are done by translation groups who are asked or payed by fans to do translations of the series. There was a tweet from the author saying how he would like to work with English speakers to have an official English version of the series, however, nothing yet. So basically, there currently is no official English translation to the series.
Now, I do believe that the statements can be used to grant a tier, as there is some truth in them such as Shiva still being said to be able to destroy the world. WE also have Thor's statement of being able to tear apart the land and seas with his hammer, sounds about 6-B-ish
Zeus Speed:
Basically, Zeus performs punches at various speeds, testing Adam to see how strong he is, starting from 0.01 seconds, to 0.001-> 0.00001 and so until he performs a punch faster than 1e-20 seconds.
I agree with Zeus' speed not scaling to the time punch, the only two people who scale to it are Zeus (While performing the move and in Adamas mode) and Adam himself. Base Zeus himself scales to ftl, because of him own FTL feat and for blitzing Ares as a old mad who could see the feat
-Adamas mode because Adam casually dodged the move point blank, while Adamas made his get serious, he struggled to avoid all of them and the first Adamas punch scratched Adam (First time Adam was touched).
The reason for possibly Infinite is because the narrative implies the speed to be beyond time.
Volund:
In the series Volund is the method which that grants the user the ability to harm the gods due to their overwhelming strength above them. This was thought to only grant them weapons that can harm the gods. However, this isn't the case as later in the series it is revealed what Volund truly is:
Volund unleashes the potential of the being, not just granting them a weapon. This also explains why the humans are able to survive blows from the gods,
examples being
-Jack the ripper surviving many direct unguarded attacks from Heracles, one directly into a open wound.
-Kojiro surviving many grievous stabs and cuts across his body, one even said to have hit his gut.
-Lu Bu surviving some blows from Thor
- And Adam and Raiden surviving attacks from Shiva and Zeus (Their cases are little different)
Abilities:
2. I agree with this, idk why he has it, which the volund he should only have:
And should also have
resistance to Pain Manipulation (High pain tolerance, had his entire body broken and torn without showing pain), Heat Manipulation (The heat from Mjolnir was shown to be no inconvenience to him and received slight burns. Mjilonir's heat is said to be like Lava itself)
3. I guess this one can be removed.
4. I am unsure why he has non-corporeal
Statements:
From what I've seen so far, the current translation seem to be argued as mistranslations. I would like to say that all these current translations are done by translation groups who are asked or payed by fans to do translations of the series. There was a tweet from the author saying how he would like to work with English speakers to have an official English version of the series, however, nothing yet. So basically, there currently is no official English translation to the series.
Now, I do believe that the statements can be used to grant a tier, as there is some truth in them such as Shiva still being said to be able to destroy the world. WE also have Thor's statement of being able to tear apart the land and seas with his hammer, sounds about 6-B-ish
Zeus Speed:
Basically, Zeus performs punches at various speeds, testing Adam to see how strong he is, starting from 0.01 seconds, to 0.001-> 0.00001 and so until he performs a punch faster than 1e-20 seconds.
I agree with Zeus' speed not scaling to the time punch, the only two people who scale to it are Zeus (While performing the move and in Adamas mode) and Adam himself. Base Zeus himself scales to ftl, because of him own FTL feat and for blitzing Ares as a old mad who could see the feat
-Adamas mode because Adam casually dodged the move point blank, while Adamas made his get serious, he struggled to avoid all of them and the first Adamas punch scratched Adam (First time Adam was touched).
The reason for possibly Infinite is because the narrative implies the speed to be beyond time.
Volund:
In the series Volund is the method which that grants the user the ability to harm the gods due to their overwhelming strength above them. This was thought to only grant them weapons that can harm the gods. However, this isn't the case as later in the series it is revealed what Volund truly is:
Volund unleashes the potential of the being, not just granting them a weapon. This also explains why the humans are able to survive blows from the gods,
examples being
-Jack the ripper surviving many direct unguarded attacks from Heracles, one directly into a open wound.
-Kojiro surviving many grievous stabs and cuts across his body, one even said to have hit his gut.
-Lu Bu surviving some blows from Thor
- And Adam and Raiden surviving attacks from Shiva and Zeus (Their cases are little different)
Abilities:
1.He can change his muscular structure being the bio manip and him increasing in size being the size manip. But I guess you could just change it to Body Control
2. I agree with this, idk why he has it, which the volund he should only have:
- Limited Durability Negation (his Volund is able to break through shields),
- Light Manipulation (Able to create a flash of light, seemingly to blind opponents)
And should also have
resistance to Pain Manipulation (High pain tolerance, had his entire body broken and torn without showing pain), Heat Manipulation (The heat from Mjolnir was shown to be no inconvenience to him and received slight burns. Mjilonir's heat is said to be like Lava itself)
3. I guess this one can be removed.
4. I am unsure why he has non-corporeal
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Tbh, I dont think adam even needed the volund as he already had the eyes and could kill gods before
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There is nice consistency with the author during the Adam fight. All of Zeus' punches prior to the time punch where left handed so when copied by Adam he used his left (No volund hand) until Zeus used his time punch which was right handed and Adam used his right hand (Volund hand).
This is why I say the Volund boost the individual and not just gives them a weapon that can harm gods. Otherwise it make sno sense Adam having one.
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Which is my point, cus if u see all fight till now, the volund DID something for the user
Lu bu - a spear that breaks shields
Sasaki - sword that can duplicate
Jack- power to make anything a volund
Raiden - gives freedom and full control of his muscles
And then we have adam....with brass knuckles
Adam already even before this showed he is more than capable of killing gods himself with no volund and all of the fight adam only used his eyes wich is something he already had
Also in no fight did when get a volund giving the users powers or making them stronger, all the humans have used on their fight Is something they already had
Sky eater
Universe scanner
Super muscles
Etc.
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I'm saying its a whole amp, granting them abilities while also increasing their physical characteristics.
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What Power said. Based on the Loki Buddha convo posted above, Volunds do amp the humans to their peak. The only human this wouldn’t apply to would be Lu Bu but since the higher tiers already scale from him (for some reason) his rating wouldn’t change.
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Lubu and adam and more
As for those 2 they showcased their power and abilities already
Adam has always been "copy any technics of the gods and their speed and harm them/kill them"
Lubu was the sky eater which he could already do before volund
As for those 2 they showcased their power and abilities already
Adam has always been "copy any technics of the gods and their speed and harm them/kill them"
Lubu was the sky eater which he could already do before volund
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I think everyone is going to be 7-B now because of Lu Bu, which I'm not too sure about because averages gods are above all humans including Lu Bu. Basically the scaling is:
Lu Bu (7-B) <<< Averages gods <<<<< Humans(Volund) and God Combatants
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Average gods aren’t above Lu Bu. Lu Bu was already at his physical peak from the beginning and > Adam who is already stronger than average gods.
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Adam is a bit different as he was made in the image of god, basically making him like one. But besides that, throughout the series its constantly stated that Gods (In general) are greater than the humans (Without volund)
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Which I said, the only exception being adam
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Adam being made in the image of god doesn’t mean anything for his AP, it’s only for his ability to copy techniques. Lu Bu is stronger and is the peak of human potential so he automatically scales above every other human competitor since Volund only pushes them to their peak which still falls under human potential.
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"Lu bu stronger than adam"
.......................
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There's also the feat of Shiva and Rudra sending shockwaves from the top of India with their their clash. That's a nice feat that could get tier 7 results.
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The most logical tierings would be:
Thor: at least 7-B+, far higher with Awakening
Lu Bu: 7-B+, higher with Volund
Zeus: at least 7-B+ likely far higher with Adamas Form
Adam: Varies. at least 7-B+ likely far higher with Eyes of the Lord
Poseidon: at least 7-B+ possibly higher
Kojiro Sasaki: 7-B+ possibly higher
Jack The Ripper: likely 7-B+
Heracles: 7-B+, higher with Labours
Shiva: at least 7-B+
Raiden: at least 7-B+, far higher with Forbidden Moves
Essentially, Lu Bu and Thor were equal until Thor awakened his hammer with which he overwhelmed Lu Bu's strongest Sky Eater.
Zeus > Shiva who is "the strongest God of destruction under the heaven's by a long shot" and who affected all of India with his battle at the top with Rudra.
Adam was equal to Zeus with his Eyes of The Lord.
Poseidon is one of the top tier Gods according to Brunihlde, held in immense regards by Zeus himself and regarded as Zeus - Enalios (The equivalent of Zeus from the Seas) so he should be at least comparable to Zeus in base.
Kojiro battled and eventually surpassed Poseidon during their match, slaying him.
Heracles (Pre Ragnarok) was noted by Ares to have "the strength of Zeus" upon drinking the Ambrosia, with his labours he can easily shatter divine weapons "as if they're like paper".
Jack should get a "Likely 7-B+" for surviving hits from Hercules and somewhat matching him.
Shiva's "at least 7-B+" for being called "the strongest God of destruction under the heavens by a long shot" (superior to Indra who made a massive Thunderstorms during his fight with him and Rudra) creating massive shockwaves from the Top of India in his clash with Rudra and subsequently generating a storm during their battle from the top of the highest mountain.
Raiden is "at least 7-B+, far higher with Forbidden moves" since he's shown to be equal with Shiva while still holding back.
Chapter 39
SPOILERS
The "far higher" comes from being able to concentrate all of his power into one blow and releasing of his strength at once, this technique allowed him to essentially overwhelm Shiva's defense and blow off his arms.
Thor: at least 7-B+, far higher with Awakening
Lu Bu: 7-B+, higher with Volund
Zeus: at least 7-B+ likely far higher with Adamas Form
Adam: Varies. at least 7-B+ likely far higher with Eyes of the Lord
Poseidon: at least 7-B+ possibly higher
Kojiro Sasaki: 7-B+ possibly higher
Jack The Ripper: likely 7-B+
Heracles: 7-B+, higher with Labours
Shiva: at least 7-B+
Raiden: at least 7-B+, far higher with Forbidden Moves
Essentially, Lu Bu and Thor were equal until Thor awakened his hammer with which he overwhelmed Lu Bu's strongest Sky Eater.
Zeus > Shiva who is "the strongest God of destruction under the heaven's by a long shot" and who affected all of India with his battle at the top with Rudra.
Adam was equal to Zeus with his Eyes of The Lord.
Poseidon is one of the top tier Gods according to Brunihlde, held in immense regards by Zeus himself and regarded as Zeus - Enalios (The equivalent of Zeus from the Seas) so he should be at least comparable to Zeus in base.
Kojiro battled and eventually surpassed Poseidon during their match, slaying him.
Heracles (Pre Ragnarok) was noted by Ares to have "the strength of Zeus" upon drinking the Ambrosia, with his labours he can easily shatter divine weapons "as if they're like paper".
Jack should get a "Likely 7-B+" for surviving hits from Hercules and somewhat matching him.
Shiva's "at least 7-B+" for being called "the strongest God of destruction under the heavens by a long shot" (superior to Indra who made a massive Thunderstorms during his fight with him and Rudra) creating massive shockwaves from the Top of India in his clash with Rudra and subsequently generating a storm during their battle from the top of the highest mountain.
Raiden is "at least 7-B+, far higher with Forbidden moves" since he's shown to be equal with Shiva while still holding back.
Chapter 39
SPOILERS
The "far higher" comes from being able to concentrate all of his power into one blow and releasing of his strength at once, this technique allowed him to essentially overwhelm Shiva's defense and blow off his arms.
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So what do you guys think
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I still don’t understand why people are scaling all the gods above Lu Bu. The gods don’t have any feats and even have feats of not being on that level like when Jack could choke out a Valkyrie. Lu Bu is also stated to be the summit of human potential where as Volund only amps the humans to their full potential. Considering Thor is the strongest god and Lu Bu is the strongest human, no one scales to the 7-B+ from Sky Eater.
Edit: Just realised I forgot to note that the first scan I linked came out on Oct 25, 2019 which was in the middle of the Jack vs Herc fight so Thor > all the other gods is still valid regardless of the inverse statements and hype as those weren’t narrator statements and thus subject to being fallible.
Edit: Just realised I forgot to note that the first scan I linked came out on Oct 25, 2019 which was in the middle of the Jack vs Herc fight so Thor > all the other gods is still valid regardless of the inverse statements and hype as those weren’t narrator statements and thus subject to being fallible.
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@AnonymousBlank If you read the manga you'd know that Thor was the strongest of the norse gods, not of all the gods, same for Lu Bu he was the strongest of his era, not of all eras and it's mentioned in the same scan you posted. Shiva in fact is stated to be "the strongest god of destruction under the heavens by a long shot" which goes into direct conflict with your interpretation.
Lu Bu, without a Volund, is no way stronger or massively above the rest of the cast, that'd make utter no sense narratively speaking. Especially when it's stated that no way in hell him or any human should be clashing with a god under normal circumstances.
However, if you guys still don't agree with the 7-B+ ratings we could just calc the feats during the fight with Rudra and scale the other characters from there
(Still 7-B although to a lower degree)
Lu Bu, without a Volund, is no way stronger or massively above the rest of the cast, that'd make utter no sense narratively speaking. Especially when it's stated that no way in hell him or any human should be clashing with a god under normal circumstances.
However, if you guys still don't agree with the 7-B+ ratings we could just calc the feats during the fight with Rudra and scale the other characters from there
(Still 7-B although to a lower degree)
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First scan I linked, fourth panel. It states that Lu Bu harmed the strongest god while showing him fighting Thor.
Edit: Being the strongest of his era doesn’t mean he isn’t the strongest of all eras. No one else is titled as a god of destruction so that’s another pointless thing to mention. Thor has been titled as the strongest Nordic God, Nordic War God and Nordic Contender.
First scan, second panel. It says Lu Bu reached the summit of human potential. In the manga he is called the strongest human since the dawn of history, the narrative of the fight is the two being the strongest etc. None of the statements in the manga contradict the scans I linked and even lend credence to it.
First scan, second panel. Lu Bu was stated to reach the summit of human potential in life. This is perfectly in line with the fact that he was stated to be the strongest human ever, performs the best feat, repeatedly stated to be the strongest, equal to the strongest god, fights the strongest god, strongest god even uses the strongest Divine Weapon that would snap under the weight of Thor’s swings, and his feat is beyond even the greatest weapons humanity has made. There is nothing in the narrative that goes against Lu Bu surpassing everyone else shown so far besides the strongest guy in the verse.
I am perfectly fine with the 7-B+ being used. The issue stems from the scaling being presented and everyone scaling above it when no one but Thor should. If Shiva vs Rudra gives a higher result than Sky Eater then the only thing that changes is the people stronger than Shiva get a bigger number which would include Thor and Lu Bu.
Edit: Being the strongest of his era doesn’t mean he isn’t the strongest of all eras. No one else is titled as a god of destruction so that’s another pointless thing to mention. Thor has been titled as the strongest Nordic God, Nordic War God and Nordic Contender.
First scan, second panel. It says Lu Bu reached the summit of human potential. In the manga he is called the strongest human since the dawn of history, the narrative of the fight is the two being the strongest etc. None of the statements in the manga contradict the scans I linked and even lend credence to it.
First scan, second panel. Lu Bu was stated to reach the summit of human potential in life. This is perfectly in line with the fact that he was stated to be the strongest human ever, performs the best feat, repeatedly stated to be the strongest, equal to the strongest god, fights the strongest god, strongest god even uses the strongest Divine Weapon that would snap under the weight of Thor’s swings, and his feat is beyond even the greatest weapons humanity has made. There is nothing in the narrative that goes against Lu Bu surpassing everyone else shown so far besides the strongest guy in the verse.
I am perfectly fine with the 7-B+ being used. The issue stems from the scaling being presented and everyone scaling above it when no one but Thor should. If Shiva vs Rudra gives a higher result than Sky Eater then the only thing that changes is the people stronger than Shiva get a bigger number which would include Thor and Lu Bu.
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I don't think they refer to "strongest" in the sense of punching harder, but in the sense of being a fighter (that would be more reasonable considering Adam and Zeus).
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You're repeating the same stuff after I've just disputed, but oh well I'm a nobody to decide 
At least we agree everyone should be 7-B.
At least we agree everyone should be 7-B.
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@Antoniofer
Is that in reference to Thor and Lu Bu being the strongest of their respective sides? Because I’d have to disagree when their entire narrative is of being the strongest in terms of strength. Lu Bu in particular is even specifically pointed out to not be the greatest in terms of being a general or fighter but having the most raw strength when Guan Yu and the others were talking.
@ItalianGuy1234
Disputing isn’t the same as debunking. Everything you mentioned either has no bearing on my argument since none of them impose a limit to either character’s strength.
Is that in reference to Thor and Lu Bu being the strongest of their respective sides? Because I’d have to disagree when their entire narrative is of being the strongest in terms of strength. Lu Bu in particular is even specifically pointed out to not be the greatest in terms of being a general or fighter but having the most raw strength when Guan Yu and the others were talking.
@ItalianGuy1234
Disputing isn’t the same as debunking. Everything you mentioned either has no bearing on my argument since none of them impose a limit to either character’s strength.
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Welp, if that is the case I believe it either refer to LS (although I have the feeling Raiden is superior), it's just hype or a direct contradiction.
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Thor being the strongest is iffy
Thor’s established level of power is lower than other gods. When Thor’s maximum power has been discussed we have two statements, one being that he can “Tear apart the land and seas” and another being that he can “Shatter Earth” (Earth in this means ground, not planet. However, it can mean planet depending on context[From wiki translator, but can't find convo because of forum move]). Thor’s is established to be able to tear apart lands and seas. However, this falls in comparison to other gods like Shiva. Shiva being able to “Destroy and create the world on a whim” and is known as the "destroyer of worlds". Not only are Thor’s feats weaker than Shiva’s, but a great deal.
Thor being the strongest is also contradicted within Ragnarok as in a scan. Thor is only considered to be the "strongest war god of Norse myth" and the "strongest god of the north", and on the very same page Zeus is considered to be "Omnipotent and Omniscient among the gods and serves as the leader", this very accurate to Zeus portrayal as the strongest as being the as he is said to be the "ruler/king of the gods and Cosmos", "the final boss" and "the biggest thorn". Not only that, Zeus is also "God Father/Father of the cosmos" (The context being, If Adam is called the father of humans because humanity spawned from him, Zeus' only fitting name would be this)
The Strongest statement comes from a Hype page at the beginning of the Lu Bu manga. This statement is neither from inverse or from any character, the page itself is very much hype, as seen with specific phrases such as "He is Extremely powerful", "Does not fear the gods", "Died of Boredom". With the words “Powerful”, “boredom” and “fear the gods” highlighted in another color. Furthermore, at the end it says "The tale of Lu Bu is yet to be told, and begins on the next page!!" furthering the nothing of it just being a hype page to invest and sell the manga. Another thing about the page is that it uses Lu Bu worst feat as means of hype, him killing a big bear, which really puts the page into question when trying call him power.
TL;dr
1. The established feats of Thor worse than other gods, such as Shiva, while Thor's best feat as awakened is arguably Planet level (Shatter earth) depending on context, Shiva can casually destroy and create worlds on a whim and is a know destroy of worlds.
2. The series itself has contradicted this statement as within Ragnarok, Thor is only regarded as North's strongest and North's strongest war god, while Zeus is considered to be omnipotent among the gods, thus serving as their leader.
3. The page itself is nothing more than a hype page. The page uses colorful lettering and very specific phrases to engage the reader before the story, while also directly promoting the series at bottom of the page, furthering the notion of it just being hype. The page also uses Lu Bu's worst feat as a means of power portrayal, which makes the page iffy when claiming who is the strongest.
Thor’s established level of power is lower than other gods. When Thor’s maximum power has been discussed we have two statements, one being that he can “Tear apart the land and seas” and another being that he can “Shatter Earth” (Earth in this means ground, not planet. However, it can mean planet depending on context[From wiki translator, but can't find convo because of forum move]). Thor’s is established to be able to tear apart lands and seas. However, this falls in comparison to other gods like Shiva. Shiva being able to “Destroy and create the world on a whim” and is known as the "destroyer of worlds". Not only are Thor’s feats weaker than Shiva’s, but a great deal.
Thor being the strongest is also contradicted within Ragnarok as in a scan. Thor is only considered to be the "strongest war god of Norse myth" and the "strongest god of the north", and on the very same page Zeus is considered to be "Omnipotent and Omniscient among the gods and serves as the leader", this very accurate to Zeus portrayal as the strongest as being the as he is said to be the "ruler/king of the gods and Cosmos", "the final boss" and "the biggest thorn". Not only that, Zeus is also "God Father/Father of the cosmos" (The context being, If Adam is called the father of humans because humanity spawned from him, Zeus' only fitting name would be this)
The Strongest statement comes from a Hype page at the beginning of the Lu Bu manga. This statement is neither from inverse or from any character, the page itself is very much hype, as seen with specific phrases such as "He is Extremely powerful", "Does not fear the gods", "Died of Boredom". With the words “Powerful”, “boredom” and “fear the gods” highlighted in another color. Furthermore, at the end it says "The tale of Lu Bu is yet to be told, and begins on the next page!!" furthering the nothing of it just being a hype page to invest and sell the manga. Another thing about the page is that it uses Lu Bu worst feat as means of hype, him killing a big bear, which really puts the page into question when trying call him power.
TL;dr
1. The established feats of Thor worse than other gods, such as Shiva, while Thor's best feat as awakened is arguably Planet level (Shatter earth) depending on context, Shiva can casually destroy and create worlds on a whim and is a know destroy of worlds.
2. The series itself has contradicted this statement as within Ragnarok, Thor is only regarded as North's strongest and North's strongest war god, while Zeus is considered to be omnipotent among the gods, thus serving as their leader.
3. The page itself is nothing more than a hype page. The page uses colorful lettering and very specific phrases to engage the reader before the story, while also directly promoting the series at bottom of the page, furthering the notion of it just being hype. The page also uses Lu Bu's worst feat as a means of power portrayal, which makes the page iffy when claiming who is the strongest.
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recent chapter Raiden was shown lift boulders as large as him if not slightly bigger pretty easily
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