Record of Ragnarok: Whatever the hell happened to this verse

[OppaiSenpai5]

So I see that profiles have been made for the RoR characters, but I don't see how the stats make any sense. It's like all the issues brough up in the revisions prior to the forum move were just ignored.

AP

None of the statements about these characteres qualify them for 5-B. "Shattering Earth" does not automatically mean overcomming its GBE, which is the baseline for 5-B. As it was pointed out before, fragmenting Earth is around High 6-A. The second justification for the 5-B rating is a statement about Shiva creating and destroying the world on a whim. First of all, destroying the world is also not 5-B by default and such statements are usually considered High 6-A as well; second of all, there are conflicting translations of this statement with the other translation saying "He creates for fun and can destroy the world on a whim!!" I don't know about you, but I'm not too keen on using what may very well be a mistranslation as a justification for these characters' tiers. It doesn't even really make sense for Shiva of all people to be the one to have created the world. If he did, it would have probably been showed in his backstory.

And the Low 2-C rating is unjustified as well: The reasons cited are that 1) Zeus regarded the Big Bang as a thrill 2) Zeus beat Chronos who's the personification of time 3) Zeus could potentially destroy heaven in his Adamas form.

1. People were arguing this statement meant that Zeus tanked the Big Bang to the face, but such a thing was never stated. Hell, the Big Bang is not even an explosion and RoR has never claimed it is.
2. This literally doesn't mean anything.
3. Destroying heaven also means nothing unless it's stated to be infinite in size, and it isn't. In fact, there is no stated size for heaven.

Speed

Rather Zeus and Adam's speed in particular. Now, Zeus has this casual FTL feat, but just because it was casual doesn't mean that he would be MFTL+ when serious when that's like 1000 times above the calc. The justification for his infinite speed rating is "The Fist that Surpassed Time went 1e-20 (0.00000000000000000000 seconds) before we could see the timeframe finish" which is just stupid. It literally says that the technique uses time manipulation and it looks to be a pretty clear cut time stop. And even if it isn't and it's just a punch that happens is exactly 0 seconds, it still wouldn't earn him infinite speed because when t=0, s=undefined.

Abilities

Some perplexing stuff about some of the characters' abilities include:

• Why does Zeus have biological manip and size manip istead of just body control?
• Literally why does Lu Bu have concept manip?
• Why does Thor have homing attacks when Mjolnir literally doesn't home on anything? It just boomerangs back.
• Why is Adam listed as being non-corporeal?

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Agree with like the entire thing. Honestly I found the entire "shatter the earth" and "create the world" thing to be too vague too.
Also. "Zeus regarded the Big Bang as a thrill" thing. I don't see that in other translations. The scene was translated to be around "I never got this excited... since space's creation!!!"

 

[Antoniofer]

Have no idea that these things were in the profiles (don't tend to look at profiles actually), and I mostly agree. People should also stop paying attention to flavor text and take statements less literal.

 

[Stocking.exe]

About Adam's non-corporeal, I think it could be for every reincarnated human's vanguards, since everyone being a spirit.
I agree about the rest but hey, T = 0 so V = Undefined nor S, and if we put that statement into a speed, I think Zeus didn't passed time for clearly 0 but more like "the closet to 0" thus it could possibly be infinite, I guess.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Btw. What are the justifications for people's Immortalities? I see Kojirou has like Type 1 & 8 on him for no reason.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Agree with like the entire thing. Honestly I found the entire "shatter the earth" and "create the world" thing to be too vague too.
Also. "Zeus regarded the Big Bang as a thrill" thing. I don't see that in other translations. The scene was translated to be around "I never got this excited... since space's creation!!!"

In the original it is only said that it precedes the creation

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

About Adam's non-corporeal, I think it could be for every reincarnated human's vanguards, since everyone being a spirit.

If that's the reason, then that's a pretty bad reason.

I agree about the rest but hey, T = 0 so V = Undefined nor S, and if we put that statement into a speed, I think Zeus didn't passed time for clearly 0 but more like "the closet to 0" thus it could possibly be infinite, I guess.

Regardless, this was accomplished via time manipulation and not just speed.

Btw. What are the justifications for people's Immortalities? I see Kojirou has like Type 1 & 8 on him for no reason.

Type 1's probably because he's already dead and has been a spirit of sorts for likely hundreds of years. No idea where type 8 came from, I don't even think it's new like the rest of the profiles.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Zeus could be in Low 2-C due to the fact in the original being informed that he is able to return everything to 0

Thor also has the influence of being 5-B because he killed the Serpent the World.

And I did some RoR calculations that were overlooked.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I disagree with the punch beyond time

Zeus was just moving faster as shown when they give the time stamp on his move like all others

And all zeus uses since the start of the fight is physical strength only, no hax

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

There are many changes in the translation, like the quotes from Thor. Later I bring some scans in Japanese. But already saying, in the original version, Thor is said to be able to crush the earth, not shatter it

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Zeus could be in Low 2-C due to the fact in the original being informed that he is able to return everything to 0

Scan?

Thor also has the influence of being 5-B because he killed the Serpent the World. In addition to being considerably superior to Shiva. Shiva being the being who created the world

I addressed this in the op, the translation for Shiva supposedly creating the world are conflicting. And I can't even recall when the World Serpent was mentioned.

Zeus was just moving faster as shown when they give the time stamp on his move like all others

It's literally stated that "ther mere mention of its name has been said to exert control over all of time".

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Zeus could be in Low 2-C due to the fact in the original being informed that he is able to return everything to 0

Thor also has the influence of being 5-B because he killed the Serpent the World. In addition to being considerably superior to Shiva. Shiva being the being who created the world

And I did some RoR calculations that were overlooked.

With due respects, those are still WAY too vague too mean anything.
What is "everything" in that context? It's not specified. Same goes with the "Shiva creates the world". What is "world" in the context?
"Thor killing the Serpent of the World" is even more vague. It's just a name. It doesn't make it suddenly planetary for being "of the world".

As for your calcs, it's more of scaling things too, so I'll leave it for others too.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Scan?

I addressed this in the op, the translation for Shiva supposedly creating the world are conflicting. And I can't even recall when the World Serpent was mentioned.

It's literally stated that "ther mere mention of its name has been said to exert control over all of time".

Exept that it didn't, like all his attacks it have been shown to be physical and all the attacks he has done have the same timer

The whole "the mere mention of his name stops time"

Is the same as when they say "on a wimp they return everything to nothingness"

All zeus has shown since the start are physical attacks

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

With due respects, those are still WAY too vague too mean anything.
What is "everything" in that context? It's not specified. Same goes with the "Shiva creates the world". What is "world" in the context?
"Thor killing the Serpent of the World" is even more vague. It's just a name. It doesn't make it suddenly planetary for being "of the world".

As for your calcs, it's more of scaling things too, so I'll leave it for others too.

The serpent is big, it coils around the planet

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Scan?

For now I don't have a lot of Japanese scans on my phone. The only one I have is this:



「全宇宙崩壊大戦」

"Collapse of the entire universe"

It is said briefly that Zeus war against Titans collapsed the Universe (Tier ~3-B). I don't know if it can change things a lot, because it's the only thing saved on my phone :V

 

[Stocking.exe]

The serpent is big, it cools around the planet

Covered around the earth didn't raise someone to planetary level though :c

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I once calculated the Serpent and got a 5-A result. I'll redo some day

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Consider getting those scans looked at by a member who speaks Japanese.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Covered around the earth didn't raise someone to planetary level though :c

Nust saying that the serpent coils around the planet

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

For now I don't have a lot of Japanese scans on my phone. The only one I have is this:



「全宇宙崩壊大戦」

"Collapse of the entire universe"

It is said briefly that Zeus war against Titans collapsed the Universe (Tier ~3-B). I don't know if it can change things a lot, because it's the only thing saved on my phone :V

Isn't there one where they say "all that he does not like he returns to the void"

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Isn't there one where they say "all that he does not like he returns to the void"

"For now I don't have a lot of Japanese scans on my phone. The only one I have is this"

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

The "Collapse Universe" thing is actually referring to "Titanomachia" not its exact description for what it is.
Btw , I reread the manga, and Thor has Homing Attack as Mjolnir's magic made it an attack that doesn't miss. So that's the explanation.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

The "Collapse Universe" thing is actually referring to "Titanomachia" not its exact description for what it is.

Yes, it says an event that occurred in the war. If you search in Japanese there will be no place saying that the battle can be called this way

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Btw , I reread the manga, and Thor has Homing Attack as Mjolnir's magic made it an attack that doesn't miss. So that's the explanation.

Ya sure? Because all I find is a statement about it never having missed, not that it cannot miss.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Mjolnir is not said to use KE and centrifugal energy?

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Ya sure? Because all I find is a statement about it never having missed, not that it cannot miss.

My bad about the wordings. But my point: It never missed because Mjolnir's magic made it less likely to miss.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Mjolnir is not said to use KE and centrifugal energy?

Of course it is, but what does this have to do with it being homing?

My bad about the wordings. But my point: It never missed because Mjolnir's magic made it less likely to miss.

Since it's been made obvious that there are 2 different translations out there, mind just linking the quote? I don't remember it being enchanted to be homing.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Of course it is, but what does this have to do with it being homing?

Ifuse KE it will give a Low 5-B result, I don't care about Mjolnir going after his opponent, so mhe. I was just asking to make sure.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Of course it is, but what does this have to do with it being homing?

Since it's been made obvious that there are 2 different translations out there, mind just linking the quote? I don't remember it being enchanted to be homing.

It's not a translation into English. It's into Thai language. Would you like it?

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

I don't speak Thai, so no. But I would still look at it to see how the quote was translated into English.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I'm back

So I see that profiles have been made for the RoR characters, but I don't see how the stats make any sense. It's like all the issues brough up in the revisions prior to the forum move were just ignored.

AP

None of the statements about these characteres qualify them for 5-B. "Shattering Earth" does not automatically mean overcomming its GBE, which is the baseline for 5-B. As it was pointed out before, fragmenting Earth is around High 6-A.

In the original is said:



大地 を も 打 ち 砕 く 最強 の 神器 也

"The strongest sacred treasure that crushes the earth"

In other words, the hammer does not shatter the earth, it crushes, which can be left without difficulty in 5-B, not in High 6-A. But there are also other feats, like killing a Serpent that surrounds the world



あん時に 一 回だけ使った… あの技 ...

数千 年前 宿敵 大蛇 ヨ ル ム ン ガ ン ド と 闘 っ た 時 の…

"Used only once at that time... That technique...

Thousands of years ago, when he fought against his enemy, Jormungandr"

And what does this mean? That he killed a snake that surrounds the earth. But how big is this feat? We will see

Normal size = 63cm
Earth circumference = 40.075km

Square to Cube Law

(40075000/0.63)^3*0.50kg = 1.2869716e + 23kg
(3.5/0.63)*40075000 = 222638888.889

(1.2869716e+23*222638888.889^2) * 1/12 = 5.3160587e+38J

High 5-A/Dwarf Star

The second justification for the 5-B rating is a statement about Shiva creating and destroying the world on a whim. First of all, destroying the world is also not 5-B by default and such statements are usually considered High 6-A as well; second of all, there are conflicting translations of this statement with the other translation saying "He creates for fun and can destroy the world on a whim!!" I don't know about you, but I'm not too keen on using what may very well be a mistranslation as a justification for these characters' tiers. It doesn't even really make sense for Shiva of all people to be the one to have created the world. If he did, it would have probably been showed in his backstory.

The original quote is:



戯れに作る世界を気まぐれに破壊

"Destroying the world in a fun way on a whim"

I really don't see how this should be left at 5-B, for me this is "At least High 6-A, possibly 5-B". But I don't have much to say about this, I really don't support Shiva 5-B as something legitimate. The part of not showing about this is something very silly, the story only revolves around when he was still becoming the God of the Destruction and Creation, he obviously would not have a very relevant feat as this quote. He only managed to do so feat after winning this position

And the Low 2-C rating is unjustified as well: The reasons cited are that 1) Zeus regarded the Big Bang as a thrill 2) Zeus beat Chronos who's the personification of time 3) Zeus could potentially destroy heaven in his Adamas form.

1. People were arguing this statement meant that Zeus tanked the Big Bang to the face, but such a thing was never stated. Hell, the Big Bang is not even an explosion and RoR has never claimed it is.

In Japanese it is said that he predates creation, not that he was next to the Big Bang



全 宇宙 創造 以来 の

"This is the greatest emotion since the creation of the entire Universe"

So mhe, it doesn't matter much

1. 1. Destroying heaven also means nothing unless it's stated to be infinite in size, and it isn't. In fact, there is no stated size for heaven.

Let's first understand the basics, Zeus is a being older than the normal Universe, as I said and showed earlier, and he is younger than gods like Poseidon. Okay, but what does this mean? The Poseidon has already in Heaven been shown as a child, that is, it is a place older than our Universe. So it's easy to argue that Paradise is a different Universe. It has already been shown that each God comes from a different realms, and each realms must be at least similar to that of India, which is a planet with a sun. So yeah, the feat would be at MINIMUM 4-A

 

[Antoniofer]

Not sure how you get a High 5-A result from an snake that, although pretty big even if referring to the size from the myth, is still way smaller than earth.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Jormungandr's feat is only High 6-A at best.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

I don't speak Thai, so no. But I would still look at it to see how the quote was translated into English.

OK. The line goes "Snorri's Edda recorded that - The god, Thor, throws Mjolnir to destroy the giants' heads. Mjolnir's magical powers make it... NEVER MISSES, EVEN AFTER A HUNDRED THROWS"

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Why are we assuming Jormugandr to coil around the earth like the Myths? Was it ever said to have done so in the manga?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Why are we assuming Jormugandr to coil around the earth like the Myths? Was it ever said to have done so in the manga?

The manga goes by the myth exept for the few twists it does in it which are always shown on the manga (the twists) like Adam's backstory etc.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Jormungandr's feat is only High 6-A at best.

This character is 5-A and is considerably smaller than the earth, while the Jormungandr is 40,000km in size, which is much larger

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

I'm back

In the original is said:



大地 を も 打 ち 砕 く 最強 の 神器 也

"The strongest sacred treasure that crushes the earth"

In other words, the hammer does not shatter the earth, it crushes, which can be left without difficulty in 5-B, not in High 6-A. But there are also other feats, like killing a Serpent that surrounds the world



あん時に 一 回だけ使った… あの技 ...

数千 年前 宿敵 大蛇 ヨ ル ム ン ガ ン ド と 闘 っ た 時 の…

"Used only once at that time... That technique...

Thousands of years ago, when he fought against his enemy, Jormungandr"

And what does this mean? That he killed a snake that surrounds the earth. But how big is this feat? We will see

Normal size = 63cm
Earth circumference = 40.075km

Square to Cube Law

(40075000/0.63)^3*0.50kg = 1.2869716e + 23kg
(3.5/0.63)*40075000 = 222638888.889

(1.2869716e+23*222638888.889^2) * 1/12 = 5.3160587e+38J

High 5-A/Dwarf Star


The original quote is:



戯れに作る世界を気まぐれに破壊

"Destroying the world in a fun way on a whim"

I really don't see how this should be left at 5-B, for me this is "At least High 6-A, possibly 5-B". But I don't have much to say about this, I really don't support Shiva 5-B as something legitimate. The part of not showing about this is something very silly, the story only revolves around when he was still becoming the God of the Destruction and Creation, he obviously would not have a very relevant feat as this quote. He only managed to do so feat after winning this position


In Japanese it is said that he predates creation, not that he was next to the Big Bang



全 宇宙 創造 以来 の

"This is the greatest emotion since the creation of the entire Universe"

So mhe, it doesn't matter much

Let's first understand the basics, Zeus is a being older than the normal Universe, as I said and showed earlier, and he is younger than gods like Poseidon. Okay, but what does this mean? The Poseidon has already in Heaven been shown as a child, that is, it is a place older than our Universe. So it's easy to argue that Paradise is a different Universe. It has already been shown that each God comes from a different realms, and each realms must be at least similar to that of India, which is a planet with a sun. So yeah, the feat would be at MINIMUM 4-A

1. 大地 means earth not in the sense of 'planet Earth', but in the sense of 'ground'. That means he's not actually stated to be able to shatter the planet, so this statement becomes useless.
2. I have no idea how you arrived at High 5-A. I see that you assumed Jormungandr to have a length equal to Earth's circumference and used the square cube law to figure how much heavier it would be than a normal snake, but I have no idea what (3.5/0.63)*40075000 = 222638888.889 is.
3. What I'm getting is that the raw Japanese doesn't say anything about Shiva creating the world and only that he can destroy it on a whim, yes?
4. So the Big Bang isn't mentioned at all. And none of those links are working.

---

The manga goes by the myth exept for the few twists it does in it which are always shown on the manga (the twists) like Adam's backstory etc.

When those myths were written, they didn't know what planets were. They probably thought the world was flat.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

1. 大地 means earth not in the sense of 'planet Earth', but in the sense of 'ground'. That means he's not actually stated to be able to shatter the planet, so this statement becomes useless.

In reality, one of the variations of the word is in the sense of "planet earth"

1. I have no idea how you arrived at High 5-A. I see that you assumed Jormungandr to have a length equal to Earth's circumference and used the square cube law to figure how much heavier it would be than a normal snake, but I have no idea what (3.5/0.63)*40075000 = 222638888.889 is.

It is the formula for knowing what the speed change is, even because the size interferes with the speed of an object

1. What I'm getting is that the raw Japanese doesn't say anything about Shiva creating the world and only that he can destroy it on a whim, yes?

Basically yes. He also says that the whole world is his mere playground

1. So the Big Bang isn't mentioned at all. And none of those links are working.

I am able to access the links. But if you can't really access the link, I will send it via Imgur later

When those myths were written, they didn't know what planets were. They probably thought the world was flat.

The myth is literally about a snake that surrounds the planet, until its head bites its tail.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

In reality, one of the variations of the word is in the sense of "earth"

Yes, earth as in ground. It's literally the kanji 大 (big) and 地 (ground) put together, it meanst "vast land". The Japanese word for planet Earth is 地球.

It is the formula for knowing what the speed change is, even because the size interferes with the speed of an object

As far as I'm concerned, Jormungandr should be FTL scaling off of the gods, which would disqualify him from KE calcs.