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Record of Ragnarok: Whatever the hell happened to this verse

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Axxtentacle said:
Actually, I just noticed. It’s not the omniscient narrator that states that the attack is rumored to have control over time, it’s HERMES.
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No he isn't. The statement is made while TFTST is going off, meaning that everyone, including Hermes, would be unable to comment on it because it (probably) happens in 0 seconds.
 
OppaiSenpai5 said:
No he isn't. The statement is made while TFTST is going off, meaning that everyone, including Hermes, would be unable to comment on it because it (probably) happens in 0 seconds.
Click to expand...
I already mentioned that I could be wrong here. It seemed that it was Hermes as he says something along the lines of “He’s using that move...?” and then a backstory for the move pops up with a narrator. Like I said, with the way the text bubbles seem, seems more to be the narrator.

Also, it’s implied by the scene between Ares and Hermes afterwards that Hermes actually saw what happens.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
The time stop argument isn’t contradicted by anything while the infinite speed argument requires you to ignore multiple sources, ignore Occam's razor, visuals, dismiss feats as PIS the moment it contradicts the stance etc.
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...I said why the time stop argument is contradicted by Ares stating he couldn’t see any part of the exchange, just Zeus preparing to attack, and the visual “wave” coming off of him after he lunges and starts to throw the punch.

Also, the panel where Zeus is initially shown being countered, the background is white, implying it’s more of an artistic choice than anything.

I don’t see where Occam’s razor comes from here, the entire premise of their previous exchanges is that they’re moving faster and faster, and this is consistent with the timer.

Zeus’ “Ultimate Straight Punches” aren’t stated to be his fastest attacks either. They’re just stated to be his strongest, meaning it isn’t even PIS, it’s just that argument that they’re faster doesn’t work, as it’s just not stated.

OppaiSenpai5 said:
Hermes himself says he didn't. And if he did, then what, he has infinite perception speed or something?
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Hermes is also a god of thievery, and is known as a trickster. He says he didn’t, but the context of when it happens very clearly implies there’s more here than what we’re seeing. Hermes is also one of the only characters not surprised by what happened.

Either way here, Hermes is implied to see what happens in the scene.
 
OppaiSenpai5 said:
No he isn't. The statement is made while TFTST is going off, meaning that everyone, including Hermes, would be unable to comment on it because it (probably) happens in 0 seconds.
Click to expand...
Also, it was said BEFORE THE ATTACK FULLY HAPPENED, and Zeus could punch his punch.
 
Here is the page where it was stated, you can see that everyone is frozen, Hermes included.
https://s5.mkklcdnv5.com/************/v2/vy918232/vol2_chapter_9_a_magnificent_copy/38.jpg
 
Ok, I was going through the raws, and then I found this.

On the left is the panel from chapter 9, it simply says 時を超える拳 (The Fist That Surpassed Time). On the right is a panel from chapter 12 where Adam and Adamas Zeus are trading blows with the names of the techniques written all over the page. The ones that I've circled are 時を超える拳 (The Fist That Surpassed Time)... Huh? What does that mean?

You can read the raws here if you feel like verifiying it for yourself.
c5c62e152f194d2654a45aa74cf9cef917.jpg
CB10B06.jpg
 
The_one_you_least_excpet said:
I don’t feel like we should restart this thread, we should just make a new thread specifically for this topic
Click to expand...
What should we discuss here, if we move the infinite speed or time stop discussion to a new thread?
 
I mean, people seem to think the 6-B feat scales to everyone and is acceptable, and it was accepted by a calc member. And the Low 2-C comes in from Chronos, who is stated to be the literal personification of time, which qualifies for Low 2-C, as he is literal the embodiment of spacetime.
 
Well, do you have a argument against the feat of killing the embodiment of time? And for the 6-B feat, it's AP as their very being sustained the river, and if he dies the river would have no water.
 
From what I've gathered these are the things that grant a possibly Low 2-C rating (Not saying they should be universal because of these, just that these are used for the possibly):

Zeus calling the big bang a thrill
- Basically Zeus looking at the big bang as nothing more that something that excites him [Big Bang being the event that created universe and spacetime], they it was presented also eludes to him tanking it or viewing himself above it.

Zeus Defeating Chronos, The personification of time
- Defeating the embodiment time, a universal construct. I believe this can grant Low 2-C from what I've seen, but needs much more evidence and context.

Zeus Destroying Heaven
- This one was believed to be universal as the assumption was that heaven was universal in size or infinite using the "Infinite Providence" statement, which was debunked in one of the older threads iirc. Either way, Heaven hasn't shown to be universal in size yet. Bare minimum it has a moon and sun.

Zeus being the the Father/God Father of the cosmos
- For this one, a little context. Adam was called the father of humanity/man as from him came humanity spawned, being the first human and all. In response Zeus was called the the God Father (Father later) of the cosmos. This either implies [Being the father] that Zeus created the cosmos, which could relate back to Zeus being stated to have creation powers. However, If you regard him as the God Father, it implies that [Zeus being the God Father] a being from Zeus pantheon created created the Cosmos, and Zeus being the strongest of his pantheon would scale above that individual. The God Father part could also mean Zeus is a God and Father and not Godfather, due to the separation between god and father, which would relate back to the first part of him creating the cosmos.

Either way, I am not saying this is right or wrong, just the only possible pieces of evidence that I've found that can used for the Low 2-C. But as already seen, most lack enough context and further information.
 
Mm, so Zeus did actually used tFtST more than once, what is it the other Kanji mentioned in that panel? I believe Adam did spammed the same attack as well (?).
 
Mmm, this may change a few things. For instance, rather than having a passive power, Adam simply is that fast; however, considering that both fighter were tabbed in melee combat for a while I believe that may suggests that is not quite infinite in speed (people noticed the moment where Adam starting receiving punches, something that wouldn't be possible if they were infinite in speed).

Either way, since Adamas Zeus endured nearly every single attack from Adam rather than dodging, he shouldn't scale either way (in base speed I mean).
 
Antoniofer said:
Mm, so Zeus did actually used tFtST more than once, what is it the other Kanji mentioned in that panel? I believe Adam did spammed the same attack as well (?).
Click to expand...
The other words are Eyes of the Lord (all the kanji on Adam's side of the panel say that), Jab Meteor and Divine Axe.
 
So just high MFTL+ speed then?
 
So what i’m hearing is that neither infinite speed or time stop make sense, as those hits didn’t stop time, as there’s no visual affect, and they were perceivable, yet it can’t be MFTL+ either. Unless we say PIS, which is honestly starting to look better and better.

What the hell is going to go on the profile?
 
Ionliosite said:
Again, it's not MFTL+, Ultima already explained why it can't be that.
Click to expand...
Ultima explained that if the time is an infinitely small number, the speed would be an infinitely large number. However, we can't prove that it's really an infinitely small number as all we have to work off is the fact that the zeros go off screen.
 
OppaiSenpai5 said:
Ultima explained that if the time is an infinitely small number, the speed would be an infinitely large number. However, we can't prove that it's really an infinitely small number as all we have to work off is the fact that the zeros go off screen.
Click to expand...
That’s why you use the context of the story. The context of the story leans more towards it being just an instantaneous attack, which leads to Adamas form using it yet being perceptible being PIS.

This honestly just got a shit ton more confusing.
 
Ionliosite said:
It would, yes, but then we have the extremely blatant anti-feats towards it being Infinite that were posted above.
Click to expand...
Yes, but this also literally counters the argument for Time Stop as well, as the main argument was the visual affect, the time stop “wave”, as this literally never happens again.

So unless you say PIS, it can’t be MFTL+, Infinite, or Time Stop.
 
So, maybe “FTL to MFTL+, possibly Infinite, possibly Time Stop” is actually the best option now?

Maybe not that exactly, but you get the idea.
 
I personally think just "FTL, far higher with FTST" would be best, since it isn't MTFL, has too many anti-feats to be Infinite, and Time Stop gets contradicted, so putting any of those looks too speculative.
 
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