Record of Ragnarok: Whatever the hell happened to this verse

[InfiniteDay]

Time stop is a massive contradiction, Infinite is mostly good but has a few anti-feats, so a FTL, possibly Infinite with TFTST

 

[Ionliosite]

Time stop is a massive contradiction, Infinite is mostly good but has a few anti-feats

Both are contradicted, both are out.

 

[InfiniteDay]

We're all forgetting that Adam's eyes could have infinite reaction speed.

 

[PowerToScale]

I think "MFTL+, possibly Infinite" is a good rating.

We know Zeus's TFTST was at least performed at 1e-20 seconds, at low end. Its through the context that the attack is infinite speed. I feel a

"At least MFTL+ (performed the punch at least in 1e-20 seconds), possibly Infinite (the attacks true tiemframe isn't completely seen and is is said to surpass time)"

Then in the notes section, you can explain in detail on how it would be infinite.

 

[Ionliosite]

For the thousandth time, it can't be MFTL+. That's already been explained by the staff member who's always dealing with these big numbers.

 

[Overlord775]

we could just treat the spectators being able to see the Adamas fight as PIS

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

For the thousandth time, it can't be MFTL+. That's already been explained by the staff member who's always dealing with these big numbers.

I think their MFTL is from the divine axe or something

 

[Axxtentacle]

I think their MFTL is from the divine axe or something

Pretty sure this was the actual reason, not sure though

 

[Axxtentacle]

we could just treat the spectators being able to see the Adamas fight as PIS

apparently that’s just out of the question by default, since it’s disagreed with

 

[Overlord775]

there's was a whole segment dedicated to how not eve Ares could see the Fist that surpassed Time, so IMO the fact people could see it is clear PIS

 

[Ionliosite]

I think their MFTL is from the divine axe or something

Divine Axe calc is just FTL.

 

[Axxtentacle]

there's was a whole segment dedicated to how not eve Ares could see the Fist that surpassed Time, so IMO the fact people could see it is clear PIS

Yeah, exactly. The only person who’s even implied to have seen it, besides Odin since he seems to be comparable to Zeus, is Hermes.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

taking into account the new information, that rules out both the infinite speed and the Time Stop, even so I still believe that The Fist That Surpassed Time is carried out through time manipulation so the new options would be
1) the attack is carried out by accelerating the flow of the user's own time, in this way he can cover any distance in a time when accelerating himself, basically it would be an amplification of statistics by means of time manipulation
2) the attack is carried out by slowing down the outside time thereby decreasing the speed at which things can move or react, thereby creating the illusion that the user's speed has increased
Postscript
there is no third option

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

There is more to say is infinite speed than time stop

So the 3rd is they are that fast

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Divine Axe calc is just FTL.

Then where did this MFTL+ came from?

 

[Axxtentacle]

taking into account the new information, that rules out both the infinite speed and the Time Stop, even so I still believe that The Fist That Surpassed Time is carried out through time manipulation so the new options would be
1) the attack is carried out by accelerating the flow of the user's own time, in this way he can cover any distance in a time when accelerating himself, basically it would be an amplification of statistics by means of time manipulation
2) the attack is carried out by slowing down the outside time thereby decreasing the speed at which things can move or react, thereby creating the illusion that the user's speed has increased
Postscript
there is no third option

3. PIS, as the move was literally unseeable beforehand, making PIS perfectly applicable, as it makes no sense that the move would be for some reason slower when Zeus is at his literal physical max.

4. They weren’t the same techniques. The other named techniques on the page were clearly shown to be something earlier, and they’re clearly not the same here. It says Divine Axe, though Divine Axe is clearly never shown. It says TFTST, but that’s clearly never shown, the visual process for the move (the white aura around Zeus’ fist) is never shown either, and that was distinct and consistent with the move when Zeus used it. All that’s shown is Zeus spamming Ultimate Straight Punches and Adam countering them.

Disregarding other possibilities for the sake of your argument is just plain biased.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I saw another translation that called those moves

"Gods right hook" also I saw him using divine axe

Also looking at the pic more carefully u can see the axe

 

[Axxtentacle]

I saw another translation that called those moves

"Gods right hook" also I saw him using divine axe

Also looking at the pic more carefully u can see the axe

Where? I’m not seeing it, if you could point it out for me i’d appreciate it.
I don’t see any kick in this, though some of the attacks just look like messy blurs.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

There is more to sa y is infinite speed than time stop

anti-feats already discredit him

So the 3rd is they are that fast

no

Then where did this MFTL+ came from?

comes from the 0s that extend all the way out of the page, there are like 20 of them, which would mean that if TFTST was a pure speed attack (which it isn't) that would make it around a billion (using the long numerical scale ) / a trillion (using the short numerical scale) times faster than Divine Ax, that would put the TFTST speed like this:
TFTST = 4.0635e20 m / s = 4.0635e17 Km / s = 1.3545e12 c
again all this is wrong because TFTST is not pure speed

Disregarding other possibilities for the sake of your argument is just plain biased.

completely agree, so far they have only responded saying that it must be infinite speed, you are the first to say something different, even so I still think that 1 and 2 are more likely than the options you just added

I saw another translation that called those moves

"Gods right hook" also I saw him using divine axe

Also looking at the pic more carefully u can see the axe

The Spanish version also call the attack "Verdadera Diestra de Dios" which would be translated into English as "True Right of God"

 

[Axxtentacle]

anti-feats already discredit him

Eh, the attack was established as instantaneous, then was perceivable. There’s no reason the attack would’ve gotten slower, so I see it as PIS.

no

It’s a possibility, a likely one.

comes from the 0s that extend all the way out of the page, there are like 20 of them, which would mean that if TFTST was a pure speed attack (which it isn't) that would make it around a billion (using the long numerical scale ) / a trillion (using the short numerical scale) times faster than Divine Ax, that would put the TFTST speed like this:
TFTST = 4.0635e20 m / s = 4.0635e17 Km / s = 1.3545e12 c
again all this is wrong because TFTST is not pure speed

That is going off the assumption that it isn’t speed in the first place, so not exactly valid.

completely agree, so far they have only responded saying that it must be infinite speed, you are the first to say something different, even so I still think that 1 and 2 are more likely than the options you just added

Those are points i’ve brought up quite a few times so far, besides my 4th option. That one’s new, but still possible, as the visual effects for TFTST aren’t shown.

The Spanish version also call the attack "Verdadera Diestra de Dios" which would be translated into English as "True Right of God"

I don’t see why this is relevant, honestly. It’s not stated to be his fastest attack, and names don’t always mean something.

 

[InfiniteDay]

3. PIS, as the move was literally unseeable beforehand, making PIS perfectly applicable, as it makes no sense that the move would be for some reason slower when Zeus is at his literal physical max.

4. They weren’t the same techniques. The other named techniques on the page were clearly shown to be something earlier, and they’re clearly not the same here. It says Divine Axe, though Divine Axe is clearly never shown. It says TFTST, but that’s clearly never shown, the visual process for the move (the white aura around Zeus’ fist) is never shown either, and that was distinct and consistent with the move when Zeus used it. All that’s shown is Zeus spamming Ultimate Straight Punches and Adam countering them.

Disregarding other possibilities for the sake of your argument is just plain biased.

It the original japanese manga, he spammed two TFTST while fighting Adam in a flurry of punches. Also, this is all shown after the fact of all the punches, you cannot claim visual effect when it is stated twice.

 

[Axxtentacle]

It the original japanese manga, he spammed two TFTST while fighting Adam in a flurry of punches. Also, this is all shown after the fact of all the punches, you cannot claim visual effect when it is stated twice.

Do you have the scans? I said visual because the most prominent argument for TFTST being time stop is the “visual effect” that happened when Zeus used it the first time. If that is the case, that discredits it being Time Stop or Time Manipulation even further.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Ok, I was going through the raws, and then I found this.

On the left is the panel from chapter 9, it simply says 時を超える拳 (The Fist That Surpassed Time). On the right is a panel from chapter 12 where Adam and Adamas Zeus are trading blows with the names of the techniques written all over the page. The ones that I've circled are 時を超える拳 (The Fist That Surpassed Time)... Huh? What does that mean?

You can read the raws here if you feel like verifiying it for yourself.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Well that basically entirely disproves time manipulation, as the argument for it was the visuals, and the rumor that it controlled time.

It being perceivable could still be PSI, unless these 2 specific hits weren’t perceivable, but there’s basically nothing to say they weren’t, other than the original being imperceivable.

Also, I see the divine axe now. Only noticed it because I noticed Adam copying it.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Why are we assuming that the audience could see later uses of TFTST? Nothing suggests that.

 

[Antvasima]

I personally think just "FTL, far higher with FTST" would be best, since it isn't MTFL, has too many anti-feats to be Infinite, and Time Stop gets contradicted, so putting any of those looks too speculative.

So should we use this then?

 

[Axxtentacle]

So should we use this then?

Yeah, I agree with this. This makes good sense, since Infinite Speed comes from saying PIS.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

It only comes from saying PIS if you assume the audience could see later uses of the move, which is never indicated and highly unlikely

 

[Axxtentacle]

It only comes from saying PIS if you assume the audience could see later uses of the move, which is never indicated and highly unlikely

It also comes from Ares being able to see it.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

But he wasn't shown to be able to see it. There are kanji labeling it for the audience's benefit, but it makes more sense to assume he's sprinkling it into his Adamas barrage, unbeknownst to the crowd.

 

[Axxtentacle]

But he wasn't shown to be able to see it. There are kanji labeling it for the audience's benefit, but it makes more sense to assume he's sprinkling it into his Adamas barrage, unbeknownst to the crowd.

Yeah, I pointed out that it’s possibly imperceivable earlier, which makes sense. Now that I think about it more, it makes perfect sense for infinite speed if it is imperceivable. Doesn’t exactly explain why it’s imperceivable other than the attack being Infinite Speed with some kind of statistics amp, but that white aura isn’t shown either. That’s honestly the only thing making it seem unbelievable to me.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I say

"FTL, possibly infinite with TFTST"

 

[Creaturemaster971]

The white aura seems like a stylistic choice, albeit a consistent one, and wouldn't really be necessary later since the barrage sort of speaks for itself.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Like, the kanji are there to state that the move is being spammed but the artist clearly didn't feel the need to also use the aura

 

[Axxtentacle]

Like, the kanji are there to state that the move is being spammed but the artist clearly didn't feel the need to also use the aura

Yeah. Since Time Stop has been basically entirely disproven at this point, I don’t see any reason that saying “FTL, possibly Infinite” wouldn’t work.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Other than people just not liking the idea, of course, and trying to stonewall. But so far, it’s not been that way.

 

[Antvasima]

I say

"FTL, possibly infinite with TFTST"

Several zero decimals does not automatically mean an infinite number of them though.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Several zero decimals does not automatically mean an infinite number of them though.

It’s implied with the instant attack, and that’s the point of Possibly as well.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Several zero decimals does not automatically mean an infinite number of them though.

Which was brought up before and ultima said that while not stretching thro infinity it would still count as infinite

 

[Axxtentacle]

Yeah, that was an old, irrelevant point. I don’t see why he brought it up.