Record of Ragnarok: Whatever the hell happened to this verse

[Creaturemaster971]

He probably didnt read the whole thread, which is understandable since he's absurdly busy

 

[Axxtentacle]

It doesn't exactly seen to be attack happening in zero time, though, considering the scan shows a decimal expansion after the first digit, instead of just labelling it as "0" from the start, in which case, it'd be just a number that infinitely approaches 0 but never actually reaches it.

If that's really the case, then it'd be still an Infinite Speed feat, in my view, considering that the usual speed equation would just take the form of the limit of S = D/T as T → 0, which diverges into infinity anyway.

Antvasima was referring to this, so he either didn’t read the 2nd half of the message or forgot. I very, very highly doubt Ant would maliciously ignore part of a statement to attempt to prove a point. I barely consider it a possibility.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I honestly don’t see any reason for Infinite to be changed at this point. The only thing potentially countering it is that we don’t specifically see Zeus charge up the move or anything in Adamas, but Adam didn’t need to when he countered it the first time. Infinite with TFTST could be what it’s changed to, but I see no reason to put “possibly” at this point.

 

[Antvasima]

He probably didnt read the whole thread, which is understandable since he's absurdly busy

That is correct, yes. I was just responding to a few recent messages.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, all that we see are several zeros, so I personally consider it a valid point.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Someone explain how the visuals being excluded for a spam of attacks in one panel debunk it being time stop? Just because said visuals aren’t included doesn’t mean the attack has changed when half a chapter was dedicated to showing how the technique works and what happens. Doubly so when this is very clearly what the audience see and are commenting on. The kanji scan changes nothing about the validity of either argument.

 

[Antvasima]

Personally, I think that the least illogical conclusion seems to be that Zeus' attack was simply executed in a very small part of a second with several zeros before it, and that his Adamas form is even faster.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I personally disagree for reasons that should be clear at this point but I am fine with the MFTL Time Punch if the majority agrees with that.

Moving back to the 6-B scaling from the Ganga calc, isn’t it an outlier? I can’t speak to the math or method used for it but here we have some fodder god who doesn’t count among the Gods’ line up but his existence is a better feat than any of them. Normally I would argue that they would scale above by virtue of being in the line up while he isn't but they actually have quantifiable feats which are ridiculously below his mere existence. Shiva and Rudra (who are individually beyond everyone else in India) combined give us City level feats from their shockwaves, Thor at his absolute max with the strongest Divine Weapon apparently only hits 6-B from what was said before, none of the Greeks have any feats on that level besides maybe Zeus who people believe scales so ridiculously above the rest of the cast bar Adam that he doesn’t even matter to any of the discussions.

 

[Tyri456]

Several zero decimals does not automatically mean an infinite number of them though.

It does, because we actually see time halting like it stopped therefore reaching the zero timeframe.

 

[Tyri456]

That was pretty much the intent of the author, unless you really believe his intention wasn't put zero but just a 0.00000000001 which make no sense whatsoever; it was obviously aiming at that, therefore surpassing time as stated by the mangaka
-

 

[Tyri456]

If we can't put infinite speed via appealing to disbelief without a proper counter argument, even do they are potrayed in that scene to be that fast, then sure.

 

[InfiniteDay]

I personally disagree for reasons that should be clear at this point but I am fine with the MFTL Time Punch if the majority agrees with that.

Moving back to the 6-B scaling from the Ganga calc, isn’t it an outlier? I can’t speak to the math or method used for it but here we have some fodder god who doesn’t count among the Gods’ line up but his existence is a better feat than any of them. Normally I would argue that they would scale above by virtue of being in the line up while he isn't but they actually have quantifiable feats which are ridiculously below his mere existence. Shiva and Rudra (who are individually beyond everyone else in India) combined give us City level feats from their shockwaves, Thor at his absolute max with the strongest Divine Weapon apparently only hits 6-B from what was said before, none of the Greeks have any feats on that level besides maybe Zeus who people believe scales so ridiculously above the rest of the cast bar Adam that he doesn’t even matter to any of the discussions.

No, because killing the world serpent, shattering "land", moving the earth and moon to create night, destroying "worlds", are all better feats stronger gods have been stated to have done.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Killing Jormungandr came out at 5-A or something which people said was too high and that it would be lower in tier 6, shattering land is vague as hell and was stated to be 6-B (that’s two stuff comparable to Ganga), turning day to night was performed by Hermes who is weaker than all of the Gods line up (which means he will also be weaker than the humans who harm them), destroying worlds is a hype statement from Heimdall (who people want to dismiss as only hype).

So we got Thor having better or comparable feats than Ganga but he wouldn’t scale to anyone, Hermes casually has a better feat than basically any God who are going all out so would fall under the outlier issue since everyone who is stronger than him have far weaker feats when fully exerting themselves.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Killing Jormungandr came out at 5-A or something which people said was too high and that it would be lower in tier 6, shattering land is vague as hell and was stated to be 6-B (that’s two stuff comparable to Ganga), turning day to night was performed by Hermes who is weaker than all of the Gods line up (which means he will also be weaker than the humans who harm them), destroying worlds is a hype statement from Heimdall (who people want to dismiss as only hype).

So we got Thor having better or comparable feats than Ganga but he wouldn’t scale to anyone, Hermes casually has a better feat than basically any God who are going all out so would fall under the outlier issue since everyone who is stronger than him have far weaker feats when fully exerting themselves.

It would be High 6-A most likely, with 5-A actual being a possibility, Shiva is probably just a hype, Hermes feat is only 5-C, Thors feat was also 6-B. All in all, this is only in the 6-B to 5-C range for these statements. And with Thor having the at least High 6-A, which scales far above the 6-B of the ganges god, and makes sense, it should be added. And yes, characters smaller than planets have been made 5-A before because of their attacks which were also smaller than planets.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Not saying I disagreed with the 5-A Jormungandr feat (don’t know enough math to have much say) just that people were saying it was too high or something. However that ends up, I don’t care too much.

My issue was that all the contestants are superior to every other god and human but here we have the contestants getting tier 7 while going all out while the guys who have the far higher feats (besides Thor and Zeus) are all supposed to be weaker than the tier 7 guys. If I am just overthinking it then it’s no problem, just wondering because standards for what constitutes an outlier seems to differ from thread to thread.

 

[Overlord775]

Hermes is hinted to be >>> Ares

 

[InfiniteDay]

I mean, the many statements made show that the sustaining the Ganges isn't a real big deal, because of Thor having a casual 6-B feat and killing the world serpent being calced at 5-A.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Hermes is hinted to be >>> Ares

Yeah, Hermes is hinted to have seen TFTST, so I wonder where he’ll go from there

 

[Antvasima]

@Ionliosite

Do you have any suggestions for how we should solve this?

 

[Ionliosite]

If mean about the speed, I still believe that, since MFTL+ (due to the Ultima's explanation), Infinite (due to the multiple anti-feats) and Time (due to the lack of consistency) are out of the quesion, the best we can do is just "FTL (via Divine Axe calc), far higher with FTST" is sadly the best we can do, since those strikes are ridiculously faster than anything else Zeus can do, but we don't have anything else to scale it to.

If you mean about the AP, the only thing I think is that Matt is right we shouldn't downscale the other gods to Zeus since he's simply much above everyone, so they would need to look for their own feats.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that we might have to go with that in lack of better options then.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I suppose the addressing/explanation of the anfi-feats is being dismissed then

 

[Antvasima]

What do you mean?

 

[Axxtentacle]

The anti-feats brought up, such as TFTST being slower than Ultimate Straight Punches, have been disproven.

Ultimate Straight Punches were never stated to be the fastest attack Zeus has, just the strongest, so AP wise they’re more powerful.

TFTST is shown used twice on the manga panel, as it’s kanji is on screen, but there’s quite literally nothing stating or implying those 2 hits were perceivable, so it’s more logical to assume they’re not, despite the other moves being blatantly perceivable by at least gods like Ares.

There wasn’t really any other “anti-feat” shown or brought up. I don’t see why Ion didn’t mention that.

 

[Antvasima]

But if Adam had a harder time avoiding the Adamas form punches, shouldn't they logically have been swifter?

 

[Axxtentacle]

But if Adam had a harder time avoiding the Adamas form punches, shouldn't they logically have been swifter?

He dodges and counters the attacks just as easily, it’s just that he’s being bombarded and has to constantly keep dodging.

For example, you could keep a dog from jumping on you with ease. Now, imagine there’s dozens of dogs swarming you, trying to jump on you. That’s the difference here, he’s simply being overwhelmed by the constant strain of having to dodge and counter hundreds of attacks, against a more physically equal foe.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. I am not so certain. Zeus would still be limited to a certain speed level to throw those punches. There are not several of him.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

Question: the eyes of the lord of adam can copy any technique or only the techniques of the gods or divine beings?

 

[Overlord775]

it's a god copying ability, as Adam was made in image of the capital g god

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

The anti-feats brought up, such as TFTST being slower than Ultimate Straight Punches, have been disproven.

Ultimate Straight Punches were never stated to be the fastest attack Zeus has, just the strongest, so AP wise they’re more powerful.

TFTST is shown used twice on the manga panel, as it’s kanji is on screen, but there’s quite literally nothing stating or implying those 2 hits were perceivable, so it’s more logical to assume they’re not, despite the other moves being blatantly perceivable by at least gods like Ares.

There wasn’t really any other “anti-feat” shown or brought up. I don’t see why Ion didn’t mention that.

When has any attack Zeus used stated by the fastest? And if it tftst was stated to be the fastest why would he use a slower punch agianst the same guy that casually reacted to his supposedly fastest punch?

 

[Tyri456]

My suggestions are those:

At least FTL (calc), likely MFTL (assuming the series of zero is likely 0.000000000... would lead to mftl either way), possibly Infinite (stated to surpass time itself)

Or simply: FTL(calc), possibly Infinite (stated to surpass time itself)

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I think FTL, possibly Infinite works better than the alternatives. Potentially with a time stop note on the page.

 

[Ionliosite]

No, both Infinite and Time hax have multiple contradictions, adding either to the page would be too speculative.

 

[Antvasima]

We should probably use Ionliosite's solution then, as otherwise nothing will likely happen here.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Hmm. I am not so certain. Zeus would still be limited to a certain speed level to throw those punches. There are not several of him.

It was a weird example, i’m saying Zeus was just trying to keep constant pressure on him to run down his stamina with a constant strain instead of just trying to outspeed/outstrength him.

When has any attack Zeus used stated by the fastest? And if it tftst was stated to be the fastest why would he use a slower punch agianst the same guy that casually reacted to his supposedly fastest punch?

It isn’t stated. I was saying that none of his attacks are actually stated to be the fastest, but TFTST logically is.

No, both Infinite and Time hax have multiple contradictions, adding either to the page would be too speculative.

I don’t want to stonewall, but please name the contradictions for Infinite that haven’t been addressed already. The few that you have said have been addressed and explained.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Question: the eyes of the lord of adam can copy any technique or only the techniques of the gods or divine beings?

it's a god copying ability, as Adam was made in image of the capital g god

The description of the ability is that he can copy any technique or ability he sees, not specifically techniques of Gods.

 

[Axxtentacle]

The Shuumatsu No Valkyrie wiki explains this best:

Zeus, figuring that no singular move could best Adam, settled instead for a war of attrition. Unleashing a furious onslaught of blows, Zeus began focusing his efforts solely on overworking and disabling the ability. A task to which he eventually succeeded.

The specific speed and strength of the attack is irrelevant, it’s that the ability had to be constantly used for roughly 4-5 minutes, as Zeus’ Adamas form was only really able to last that long, since he was already beat up, as Hermes states.

 

[Axxtentacle]

If Ion can’t show any contradictions that haven’t been explained/disproven already, and that actually hold up, then there’s no reason to take Infinite speed off the profiles.

 

[Ionliosite]

... Nothing has been disproven. Literally the only counter arguments to the contradictions are "it's PIS" or "Infinite reaction speed", when it's just far safer to just not take it as Infinite speed at all.

 

[Axxtentacle]

The main “contradiction” was that Ultimate Straight Punches “were stated to be his fastest attack” which was wrong.
The manga proved that wrong earlier in the thread. You not keeping up with the current discussion doesn’t mean anything.

It’s not “safer to just not take it as Infinite speed at all” because you literally have proved nothing.

Now, please, answer the question and show the actual contradictions that HAVEN’T been previously addressed, since you blatantly haven’t kept up with the thread.