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Yea, I was about to say, we still dont have a statement of how big heaven is, it could be finite or infinite for all we know
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Record of Ragnarok: Whatever the hell happened to this verse
- Thread starter OppaiSenpai5
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Didn’t the Life dude post a scan about Zeus or somebody potentially causing the collapse of the universe?
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Ya it was because of the titanmonacy
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Every time that there's a statement about destroying something do we really need to assume the character oneshot mentioned place a remain unharmed after that? Instead of considering stuff like causing havoc and great amount of structural damage and death through several attacks.
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I mean, I don't see anyone here has an issue with Zeus being Universal. Matt's issue is that he's so much stronger than the other gods that they shouldn't scale to him.
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Well I’m not saying he destroyed said universe, he was just in a war which so happened to destroy it so it was more of a group effort
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Is it stated that the war itself caused it, like the combined forces of the titans vs the gods or was it just Zeus & Chronos in their battle?
Also, i’m a bit confused here. Chronos is the personification of time, meaning he’s the personified concept of time? I don’t understand how this works for him, and he seemingly doesn’t control time, he was just said to be “one hell of a fighter” by Zeus.
Also, this is unrelated, but couldn’t Sasaki Kojirou have very limited Power Mimicry for copying “immense strength” from one of the people he’s fought? That’s not exactly a style that you learn.
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Yea, I dont see anyone really scaling to him at all personally
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I do have a problem with Zeus being the universe level, the arguments that he says that he is at that level are:
-Stronger than the likes of Shiva, who can create and destroy the world on a whim, firstly I don't think Shiva is universe level, the phrase "world" sounds more like a planet than a "universe"
- the big bang as a thrill, taking into account that we have raw and it does not mention the big bang, I do not think this is valid
-beat the personification of time .......... someone explain to me how this works, does beating time incarnate make you universe level?
-could potentially destroy heaven, I understand that this assumption is based on the belief that heaven is infinite, based on Adam's past which says that he lived in the "infinite lands of the garden of eden", 2 things:
1) we are sure that heaven = garden of eden
2) the translation is wrong, it is not "infinite lands of the garden of eden", it is "adam lived in the garden of eden under the infinite providence of the gods"
I agree with the speed agreement, the speed would be as
Speed: FTL, Massively FTL possibly Infinite with The Fist That Surpassed Time
-Stronger than the likes of Shiva, who can create and destroy the world on a whim, firstly I don't think Shiva is universe level, the phrase "world" sounds more like a planet than a "universe"
- the big bang as a thrill, taking into account that we have raw and it does not mention the big bang, I do not think this is valid
-beat the personification of time .......... someone explain to me how this works, does beating time incarnate make you universe level?
-could potentially destroy heaven, I understand that this assumption is based on the belief that heaven is infinite, based on Adam's past which says that he lived in the "infinite lands of the garden of eden", 2 things:
1) we are sure that heaven = garden of eden
2) the translation is wrong, it is not "infinite lands of the garden of eden", it is "adam lived in the garden of eden under the infinite providence of the gods"
I agree with the speed agreement, the speed would be as
Speed: FTL, Massively FTL possibly Infinite with The Fist That Surpassed Time
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Idk it just said during the titmachy is collapsed the universe so idk
his time punch is supposed to one of his time manluplation, idk they really don’t give a lot of context for Zeus or the war
I guess since he was combining a bunch of styles into one so maybe, but Idk if that would fall under immense strength
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I don’t think anyone has argued for shiva being universal
Pretty sure the raw said “the creation of the universe” which would be the Big Bang
Idk either, as far as we know it’s just a fancy feat under his belt
I agree on the heaven bit
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For all we know the universe was constructed gently over time by the gods, we have no reason to assume the Big Bang occurred in this universe.
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There is literally nothing implying so,plus I doubt Zeus would be getting so excited over making a universe after seeing what his personality is like
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Fair point, but it feels like a greater stretch to assume that Zeus tanked the big bang, especially if it ends up being the primary basis for his tier.
"I haven't been this excited since the universe was created" tells us virtually nothing about that time
"I haven't been this excited since the universe was created" tells us virtually nothing about that time
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True but seeing as how Zeus is a battle maniac(and somewhat masochistic) and the fact that he was there for the Big Bang should tell us two things. One, he took it to the face and had massive ecstasy or two, he was fighting someone and the Big Bang went off and they were caught in the middle of it. But either way since he is older then universe, I think it’s safe to say he tanked it
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Isn’t it stated that this colosseum has every human ever? If so, the gods seem to have a seemingly equal amount of people, so we can at least assume they have an equal population, and would at least occupy a similar amount of space, as most gods seem to look like normal humans. That’s really all I can see, but other than that, it doesn’t seem that we have a way to judge how big Heaven could potentially be. Not sure.
TL;DR Heaven could be roughly the size of earth, based on population of Gods vs Humans.
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The theory kind of seems to be that The Big Bang happened near the end of the Titanmonacy. Isn’t the presumption here that a 4D universe such as our own or the one in RoR can’t exist without time, or am I wrong?
If I’m right, the killing of Chronos could have destroyed the old universe, and The Big Bang could’ve happened afterwards.
If i’m wrong, this entire theory is moot.
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Well Zeus did take his father’s power so maybe Zeus is the new personification of time and I don’t think a universe would blow up without time sense I’m pretty sure time isn’t even a universal constant
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At least in this thread, nobody has argued for a universal Shiva.
The Creation of the universe should be the big bang, as it’s pretty much supposed to be our universe, or at least that’s heavily implied by the story.
I really don’t know, so I probably shouldn’t comment.
The argument is more that Heaven is similar to our universe. I don’t really have anything else to say there.
It is a space-time continuum, after all. It seems to be one of the 2 only constants, in fact.
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For those using Zeus was going to destroy Heaven, Heavens true size is unknown.
The most we know about Heaven is that it has a sun and moon, and possibly multiple stars (however, I think its just the effects of hermes music when he played). Either way, Zeus destroying heaven would be Large Star level (referring to kakguya using etso calc. Since she destroyed a dimension with a sun and moon)
Basically, Zeus destroying heaven feat would be Large Star, if accepted.
The most we know about Heaven is that it has a sun and moon, and possibly multiple stars (however, I think its just the effects of hermes music when he played). Either way, Zeus destroying heaven would be Large Star level (referring to kakguya using etso calc. Since she destroyed a dimension with a sun and moon)
Basically, Zeus destroying heaven feat would be Large Star, if accepted.
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Wasn’t Kaguya’s feat debunked?
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Literally just hype from Heimdall.
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Statements from Heimdall really should just be ignored. He stats Zeus is omnipotent, for christ’s sake.
He literally says Zeus is omnipotent after he gets gut kicked and flung into a wall.
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I could be wrong, but in terms of what overclocked Adam’s EOTL, wasn’t it all of Zeus’s Ultimate Straight Punches he was copying and dodging? They were described as “unavoidable oneshot kills” by Brun iirc, and while I haven’t read the fight in depth, only the part about the FTST, I do vaguely remember being led to believe that Zeus’s Ultimate Straight Punches from Adamas from were specifically what overwhelmed Adam.
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I'm beginning to feel like any conclusion at this point is gonna take far too much assumption, more than we would normally accept as evidence for another verse.
Also sidenote, Zeus didn't take Chronos's powers, he only took one move.
Also sidenote, Zeus didn't take Chronos's powers, he only took one move.
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We’ve confirmed that Brunhilde is pretty unreliable, for similar reasons to Ares.
Adam only shows strain after repeatedly having to dodge and counter visually dozens of these hits, so it’s likely that it’s just the consistent use.
This does seem to support the statistics amplification bit, with TFTST being faster. I don’t think it’s ever really explained why else it would be, and there’s a surge of energy coming off of his fist, which is a VERY common thing for a character getting stronger.
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Actually, even better yet, Zeus’s Ultimate Straight Punches is described as his strongest and fastest move, which would make sense as to why Adam can copy TFTST with no perceivable issues, but Zeus’s Ultimate Straight Punches overwhelmed him (though the argument could be made that Zeus’s Ultimate Straight Punches only overwhelmed Adam due to the number as stated prior).
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Actually, I just noticed. It’s not the omniscient narrator that states that the attack is rumored to have control over time, it’s HERMES. So it’s actually less reliable. It happens in Hermes’ inner monologue after seeing Zeus charge the attack.
Though, not much less reliable, as Hermes is shown to be a pretty accurate source of information.
Though, not much less reliable, as Hermes is shown to be a pretty accurate source of information.
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Who is this described by? I’m curious, as that could give more credence to the other argument.
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Wait, actually, it could be either here. I’m looking at it again, and it could be an inner-monologue but could be the narrator, based on the difference in text boxes.
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Apologies, at the end of Chapter 11, when the move is first used, it is described by narration as the strongest attack. It is described by Brun to be an unavoidable one hit kill in the next chapter.
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I do not think that we have any choice in this case. It is either a compromise or nothing.
Also, the staff cannot be expected to check through several hundred posts of discussion to reach a conclusion, so their intervention is contingent on somebody writing a thorough summary of all the important arguments and evidence, and possibly restarting this thread in the process.
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I suppose that since votes from average users are irrelevant, both sides only have 2 votes, though Antoniofer’s was counted despite him agreeing with reasons that were disproven.
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I guess the
The only thing I know they was "debunked" was it scaling to her
Not sure, I know she has a large star rating with etso for it destroying the dimension of that size.
The only thing I know they was "debunked" was it scaling to her
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The compromise doesn’t make sense when this isn’t two equally valid interpretations. If Adamas punches are described to be Zeus’ fastest and strongest punches which even have a feat of grazing Adam where nothing else had before, then it has to be faster. This means the time punch can’t be infinite speed since people can perceive the attacks before and after it but the pro infinite speed side want to dismiss this as PIS when there is a perfectly valid explanation on why they can’t perceive the time punch but can see the Adamas punches.
The time stop argument isn’t contradicted by anything while the infinite speed argument requires you to ignore multiple sources, ignore Occam's razor, visuals, dismiss feats as PIS the moment it contradicts the stance etc.
The time stop argument isn’t contradicted by anything while the infinite speed argument requires you to ignore multiple sources, ignore Occam's razor, visuals, dismiss feats as PIS the moment it contradicts the stance etc.
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I am inclined to agree with AnonymousBlank.
Would you be willing to restart this thread with a good summary post containing all of the important evidence, after which I can call some staff members to participate?
Would you be willing to restart this thread with a good summary post containing all of the important evidence, after which I can call some staff members to participate?
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I don’t feel like we should restart this thread, we should just make a new thread specifically for this topic
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That's false, next time post scans to back up to your arguments because you are twisting context, just to support your argument.
It was NEVER stated that zeus punch in adamas are the fastest.
in fact the second part of the fight could be followed, and was never stated to be fastets punches whatsoever.
while the punch in question could not be seen by ares and other people.
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And still no one debunked this, except by yelling at "Time stop!", and Ocam razors is also a terrible argument since the context itself suggest it is an increase in speed and not time stop. Ocam razor applied to single scan? sure. You should apply it for the whole chapter instead.
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