Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Discussion Thread (aka rem: zero)

[Celestial_Pegasus]

https://i.redd.it/0rn2vst026gx.jpg
OMG hahah

You saw nothing yet real salt gonna be in ep 25

Lol the salt is real

 

[Eldritch_abomination]

You don't easily change affections, Whilst rem does everything for Subaru he already has concluded that his affections reside for Emilia only. I mean if someone is super nice to you, you don't easily swoon for them (even though this example is not up to scale of what rem does for Subaru)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

You don't easily change affections, Whilst rem does everything for Subaru he already has concluded that his affections reside for Emilia only. I mean if someone is super nice to you, you don't easily swoon for them (even though this example is not up to scale of what rem does for Subaru)

Some people just can't seem to accept that just because you do things for someone doesn't mean that they have to love you.

 

[ZERO7772]

You don't easily change affections, Whilst rem does everything for Subaru he already has concluded that his affections reside for Emilia only. I mean if someone is super nice to you, you don't easily swoon for them (even though this example is not up to scale of what rem does for Subaru)

Some people just can't seem to accept that just because you do things for someone doesn't mean that they have to love you.

I love how you play along.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

You don't easily change affections, Whilst rem does everything for Subaru he already has concluded that his affections reside for Emilia only. I mean if someone is super nice to you, you don't easily swoon for them (even though this example is not up to scale of what rem does for Subaru)

Some people just can't seem to accept that just because you do things for someone doesn't mean that they have to love you.

I love how you play along.

Don't know what you mean?

Rem is best girl but a lot of her fans are ignorant.

It's really ironic though a lot of people were complaining how rem was a murderer when she killed subaru back in ep 7, ignoring the details such as subaru smelling like the most hated person in this world and being suspiciously close to emilia, and now people saying she is best girl and that she deserves to be with subaru when the subaru that she likes is the one that likes emilia, she knew from the start he liked emilia.

The reason why she confessed was to show him that someone actually loves him and he isn't useless, it was all about subaru's development, yet people focus on the last minute of ep 18 and ignore the rest of the episode for their waifu wars smh.

Whatever though i am just gonna enjoy the salt that waits us in the future.

 

[ZERO7772]

You don't easily change affections, Whilst rem does everything for Subaru he already has concluded that his affections reside for Emilia only. I mean if someone is super nice to you, you don't easily swoon for them (even though this example is not up to scale of what rem does for Subaru)

Some people just can't seem to accept that just because you do things for someone doesn't mean that they have to love you.

I love how you play along.

Don't know what you mean?
Rem is best girl but a lot of her fans are ignorant.

It's really ironic though a lot of people were complaining how rem was a murderer when she killed subaru back in ep 7, ignoring the details such as subaru smelling like the most hated person in this world and being suspiciously close to emilia, and now people saying she is best girl and that she deserves to be with subaru when the subaru that she likes is the one that likes emilia, she knew from the start he liked emilia.

The reason why she confessed was to show him that someone actually loves him and he isn't useless, it was all about subaru's development, yet people focus on the last minute of ep 18 and ignore the rest of the episode for their waifu wars smh.

Whatever though i am just gonna enjoy the salt that waits us in the future.

Nah just talking about the whole "my heart is only for emilia " and "i just love emilia " and you're saying just because you done nice thing to others doesn't mean they will love you

We both know how it's plays out later and it's funny after all this , and shipping isn't the thing you must worry about when it comes to Re:Zero

talking about that there "alot " of people also salty about bleach ending for the worng reason as well xD

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Ah that's what you meant, it's kinda funny though emilia was nice to subaru so he fell in love with her and then subaru was nice to rem and she fell for him.

Yea i see the salt about bleach it's glorious lol. People take shipping way too seriously heard people were smashing their bleach cd's and manga volumes, like chill man just becaue you're otp didn't happen doesn't mean you have to get so mad with the series you destroy things you paid for.

 

[ZERO7772]

Being nice to other and do good things for them is the main reason why a person fall in love , subaru fall i love with emillia becasue she was the first Girl who did that to him , she was extreamly kind while everything other was harsh on him subaru mind was completely emilia That is why he doesn't fall for Rem easily and from his respective falling in love with another girl is betraying his feeling so unless he become so deeply in love with rem he won't admit his feelings

You get the point ....

 

[ZERO7772]

LOL That is completely different level , how can break your things when you paid for them ? seriously BD and DVD are expansive

Does people even ship in bleach ? lol it was obvious who's gonna end up with who if you ask me you want to throw poor renji under the bus ?

 

[Eldritch_abomination]

Nah just talking about the whole "my heart is only for emilia " and "i just love emilia " and you're saying just because you done nice thing to others doesn't mean they will love you

We both know how 'it's plays' out later and it's funny after all this , and shipping isn't the thing you must worry about when it comes to Re:Zero

talking about that there "alot " of people also salty about bleach ending for the worng reason as well xD

lol I can only imagine what that could mean

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Re:Zero Feats (WN/Manga/Anime)

Reinhard destroyed the house and the stone wall behind it i remember hearing that was something that happened in the LN that's definetly not just a building level attack, the anime only showed him destroying the building from what i remember though.

Basing his speed of what he can destroy is shaky to me, if anything that would only count for his attack speed and not reaction if his attack can reach a far distance quickly.

Wait so shaula has a 10km range? That changes things a lot shaula was able to attack subaru and his group and if they were indeed 10km away and from what i saw of the summary it seemed like she did it instantly then that would be like at least a high hypersonic feat might even be higher considering she threw multiple needles at different targets and that it vaporized their heads when it hit them, i can see her speed being mhs legitamate.

Not sure where hypersonic theresia is coming from, beating those demihumans in an instant doesn't seem that fast, it could be but i need to see a calc for it.

Wilheim jumping up could very well be subsonic as he reach a far distance fairly quickly but need a calc to confirm that.

Need to confirmed hakugei size really being 162m.

Not buying supersonic elsa where did the timeframe of her crossing 10.77m in .03 seconds come from? Also not buying subsonic rem, it was ram who cut off subaru's leg not rem in that first feat and she can be superhuman and still perform the 2nd feat of kicking that table.

Also not buying large building level rem, that demon puppy made the ground soft with it's earth magic and was elevating it and rem just stomped it before it could do it fully, in short she had help to do that.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Re:Zero Feats (WN/Manga/Anime)

Reinhard destroyed the house and the stone wall behind it i remember hearing that was something that happened in the LN that's definetly not just a building level attack, the anime only showed him destroying the building from what i remember though.
Basing his speed of what he can destroy is shaky to me, if anything that would only count for his attack speed and not reaction if his attack can reach a far distance quickly.
Wait so shaula has a 10km range? That changes things a lot shaula was able to attack subaru and his group and if they were indeed 10km away and from what i saw of the summary it seemed like she did it instantly then that would be like at least a high hypersonic feat might even be higher considering she threw multiple needles at different targets and that it vaporized their heads when it hit them, i can see her speed being mhs legitamate.

Not sure where hypersonic theresia is coming from, beating those demihumans in an instant doesn't seem that fast, it could be but i need to see a calc for it.

Wilheim jumping up could very well be subsonic as he reach a far distance fairly quickly but need a calc to confirm that.

Need to confirmed hakugei size really being 162m.

Not buying supersonic elsa where did the timeframe of her crossing 10.77m in .03 seconds come from? Also not buying subsonic rem, it was ram who cut off subaru's leg not rem in that first feat and she can be superhuman and still perform the 2nd feat of kicking that table.

Also not buying large building level rem, that demon puppy made the ground soft with it's earth magic and was elevating it and rem just stomped it before it could do it fully, in short she had help to do that.

1) Just quoting several buildings, don't have calcs for what he can do beyond that, since we see him fight only once until Arc 5.

2) Reinhard and Reid's reaction speeds (not combat speeds) have been scaled to fighting Shaula inside her combat range (which, if we lowball it, would begin at 10km), with only one hand. (use both hands to fight Shaula only once every ten times) It seems pretty clear from what Shaula told Subaru, that the two Sword Saints elude Theresia's attacks quite comfortably, with one hand only, by being able to react to her shots. (not that they necessarily fight or deflect multiple Mach 100 projectiles coming toward them at that speed)

3) The figure is more or less accurate. Julius describes the distance at which Shaula was striking them with her needles as 'several tens of kilometers'; it's Subaru who says 'ten kilometers'. I just followed Subaru's description.

4) Theresia calc is based on the amount of time she has to kill all the demi-humans before the axe would have reached Wilhelm's head. The timeframe was calcd to 6 ms by approximating the axe head's distance from Wilhelm's head (a conservative esitmate of about 0.1m) scaled to the swing speed of anatomically similar objects by normal athletic humans (an MLB player who was arguably using a bat, hitting by its head, but the large-built axe-wielder is also visibly very peak human/superhuman physically, so giving him the same human speed is more or less appropriate). If Theresia took more than it took the time for the axe to cross that distance, Wilhelm's head is split. Since Wilhelm is clearly alive, that's the minimum calc we can give Theresia's feat in that particular scene (save Wilhelm before the axe can complete crossing that 0.1m distance at human speed (about 18 m/s; or 0.0055555 seconds for 0.1m) towards Wilhelm's head).

5) That's why it is said 'possible', not that he is, and only under very conditional circumstances; it's clear Wilhelm is mostly low subsonic on the ground.

Young Wilhelm will need a different calculation. We first have to observe how he fairs well against Theresia in the duel next episode.

6) Current Wilhelm is 1.78 meters in the wiki, and the calc actually did not add the extra height of his butler's shoes, just use his naked height. Using pixel calc, that put the eye at its lateral point (same axis as Hakugei's length; animal eye is slightly elliptical) 2.3 meters. Scaling that to Hakugei's length yields 162 meters, and using allometric scaling for whales (used Sperm Whale, Blue Whale, Beluga Whale, and Whale Sharks at the same time, also male/females), that puts his weight using any of those modelings at around 30,000-50,000 tons. Used Beluga Whale and Sperm Whale's 45,000 tons as the closest estimate.

Even if the eye could be somewhat smaller, taking another approach and scaling the eye size directly to whales or sharks' eye-to-body ratio using the same allometric scaling gives more or less similar values (mid-high 5 digit tonnage, a lot more than 100m to 200m length). That's his size as seen in the anime.

7.1) 0.03 seconds frame directly indicated by the video. Re-examination by several people did not change the value. Anothe scene shows Elsa crossing the distance from the celing to floor in 0.02 seconds. Eyeball the image of the house interior to determine its height (using the angle Elsa was traveling at to get the horizontal distance as well) yourself to get your own calcs.

7.2) Actually, in the anime, Rem, not Ram, uses the same invisible cutting magic to cut Subaru's throat at the end. It's in the LN that Ram is directly described to kill him together. Anyways, Subsonic+ is only crossing like 80-100 meters at half-second, (easily outrunning Subaru who had several seconds of head start running at fullspeed) it's pretty slow.

8) I did not calculate how much damage the stomp has done. I used crater calculator for how much impact force is needed to displace that much earth and create the crater (which is largely equivalent to the mass of earth lifted/displaced by a specific energy/TNT equivalent impact, after accounting for that particular ground's density and planet's gravity). 2 tons of TNT equivalent if ground is softened by the magic as you say, 13 tons if it was hard (which was corrected back to soft ground). TNT equivalents are not only for explosions; semismic force that displace the earth that doesn't create visible explosions on the surface can be scaled the same way.


Below 2 tons of impact force, it's highly unlikely for Rem to displace that much soft ground, especially with another opposing force that is working against her foot, which is a directed upward force (her foot's opposing force against it should withstand it first before both can be directed downward back to the earth; combined calc creates the crater).

Further corroborations just require reading the WNs more thoroughly for Elsa (Arc 4) or Wilhelm (Arc 5) or Reinhard's (Arc 5) combat feats. It's just a WIP project for people to examine and correct together. I'm not really here to edit vsBattles anyway.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

1) If it's several buildings plus that stone well this could very well be a city block level feat, this brings up questions of canoncity though the anime has skipped some things, like this feat in question as it seems far more impressive in the manga and LN we might have the LN, and we don't have translations for that..sigh, did you make these calcs if so and you also can provide translations for what happened in the LN then that would be great. I am thinking composite version for the verse is ok there aren't that huge of a difference between each version and deciding between the LN and WN would be a pain the LN isn't as far as the WN.

2) I know about shaula being able to force reid to use both hands once every ten times, the question is which reinhard would this scale to base or with reid, was reid using reid when that happened, base reinhard has trouble with sin archbishops while shaula can apparently one shot them.

3) Cool so i think that mhs calc is legit

4) Also think this one is legit as well after seeing the reasoning but i am not a calc guy so not sure how accurate it is but it seems reasonable

5) Agreed

6) Seems legit

7.1) Hmm not sure if this would fall under cinematic timing also not sure if it's ok to use the anime timeframe.

7.2) Subaru was clearly cut by some form of wind magic so it was ram not rem who cut his leg off,rem only uses water magic. Rem had enough time to catch up once his leg was cut off so still not buying subsonic+, ram was clearly in the area and used her magic to cut subaru's leg off, becomes even more apparently when rem says "my sister is too kind" after subaru got his throat slit by that same wind like magic.

8) This reasoning seems legit however i think it might be an outlier either way rem has never replicated such a feat again even with her flair, seems quite inefficient to use it as a weapon when she can cause such damage by just stomping though it could just be her preference and that the flair has more range.

I appreciate that you brought these feats to light, as it has really helped me in placing the characters. If possible i would like for us to work on accurately placing them together.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

1) If it's several buildings plus that stone well this could very well be a city block level feat, this brings up questions of canoncity though the anime has skipped some things, like this feat in question as it seems far more impressive in the manga and LN we might have the LN, and we don't have translations for that..sigh, did you make these calcs if so and you also can provide translations for what happened in the LN then that would be great. I am thinking composite version for the verse is ok there aren't that huge of a difference between each version and deciding betweem the LN and WN would be a pain the LN isn't as far as the WN.
2) I know about shaula being able to force reid to use both hands once every ten times, the question is which reinhard would this scale to base or with reid, was reid using reid when that happened, base reinhard has trouble with sin archbishops while shaula can apparently one shot them.

3) Cool so i think that mhs calc is legit

4) Also think this one is legit as well after seeing the reasoning but i am not a calc guy so not sure how accurate it is but it seems reasonable

5) Agreed

6) Seems legit

7.1) Hmm not sure if this would fall under cinematic timing also not sure if it's ok to use the anime timeframe.

7.2) Subaru was clearly cut by some form of wind magic so it was ram not rem who cut his leg off,rem only uses water magic. Rem had enough time to catch up once his leg was cut off so still not buying subsonic+, ram was clearly in the area and used her magic to cut subaru's leg off, becomes even more apparently when rem says "my sister is too kind" after subaru got his throat slit by that same wind like magic.

8) This reasoning seems legit however i think it might be an outlier either way rem has never replicated such a feat again even with her flair, seems quite inefficient to use it as a weapon when she can cause such damage by just stomping though it could just be her preference and that the flair has more range.

I appreciate that you brought these feats to light, as it has really helped me in placing the characters. If possible i would like for us to work on accurately placing them together.
7.1) Yeah, it could be either real-time or

2) I used the author's power scaling that Reinhard > Reid >>> all other Sword Saints thus far. I don't know about Regulus yet... Regulus has a time stopping feat, who can defeat all other Sin Archbishops and most of the Witches; we have to scale that again later. Anyway, it's still only one-hand feat. We don't know yet what would happen if Reid was fighting Shaula seriously with both hands all the time.


7.1) Yeah, I sort of reasoned that the scene could be either real-time or slow-mo time (more likely real-time), with accelerated time a bit hard to conclude due to the fluidity with which Reinhard was moving in comparison to Elsa (no jerky motions if the scene was meant to be in accelelerated time frame). Elsa's voice was not slowed down either, and as for anime timeframing... I don't know, I guess this depends on the specific person who is debating the feat whether he/she has ever used anime timeframing to find other similar feats legit as well.

7.2) Okay, thanks for the corrections. Then, we can instead give that ranged attack combat feat to Ram (subsonic to possible subsonic+), rather than Rem.

8) That's why I mentioned that it's a 'special attack'. It's not something Rem can replicate every time, just something she is capable of performing IC under a certain set of conditions.

Arc 6 Rem may have similiar feats to that scale, when she is fighting again (iirc) in the sand dune. Still, I think it should be treated as a special attack, something that she is capable of, just not performing casually.

I will look for the LN passages for Reinhard

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Heinkel btw why heinkel as your name he is a complete asshole from what little i have seen of him, not hating just curious?

7.1) I am not sure it being real time, slowed down or whatever either we would have to get more imput on this. But first we will have to get the issue of whether it is ok to use the anime to guage the characters out of the way.

7.2) After watching the video again that attack came from at least 100m away and only took a couple seconds at most to hit him so i see subsonic as being legitamate for ram.

8) Still think it's an outlier or at the very least an inconsistency as that was only a one time thing done in a particular set of conditions.

You didn't answer which version of reinhard shaula scales to? I think we should start from that feat at the top and work our way down, also are you the one who did the calcs if so then i think you should do a blog post here with that shaula calc or if you can't or don't want to maybe just give me the facts about the feat like where it was stated to be 10km away so i can try to either get it calc or upgrade reinhard.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

@Heinkel btw why heinkel as your name he is a complete asshole from what little i have seen of him, not hating just curious?
7.1) I am not sure it being real time, slowed down or whatever either we would have to get more imput on this. But first we will have to get the issue of whether it is ok to use the anime to guage the characters out of the way.

7.2) After watching the video again that attack came from at least 100m away and only took a couple seconds at most to hit him so i see subsonic as being legitamate for ram.

8) Still think it's an outlier or at the very least an inconsistency as that was only a one time thing done in a particular set of conditions.

You didn't answer which version of reinhard shaula scales to? I think we should start from that feat at the top and work our way down, also are you the one who did the calcs if so then i think you should do a blog post here with that shaula calc or if you can't or don't want to maybe just give me the facts about the feat like where it was stated to be 10km away so i can try to either get it calc or upgrade reinhard.

1) Afaik I can't adopt the username of characters who already has a page, or will have pages created in the future, so Heinkel is my only realistic choice for an Astrea name. No other particular reason.

7.1) I don't really know much about it; maybe it depends. Even inside an anime frame, a dash that crosses 50 meters in 0.1 seconds looks noticeably different from one that crosses 200 meters in the same time frame/anime. I have already seen some pages that make use of animation time framing to calc the characters' feats (such as the Hypersonic+ snowball feat for Frozen Elsa ). I don't know if a unified standard really exists here.

How about this feat? Can we make use of it somehow? I know the distance and time is a bit ambiguous (other than that Emilia could not track the movement at the moment she jumped), but that's the only other source I could find to approximate Elsa's speed when she's fighting casually with only one knife (as opposed to dual-wielding when fighting seriously against Reinhard, and ramped up her fighting effort; only the anime is a viable source for that other feat right now, until we get to Arc 4 when she fights again).

7.2) Okay, that feat becomes Ram's.


8) I just thought it could be mentioned (only mentioned) as an IC feat so that people are at least aware that In-Character Rem performed it at some point in her life. It may very well be her maximum upper cap, but the physical reality is that she was able to perform it in a special form of striking power in a combat setting. How much additional combat potency people are willing to attribute Rem due that feat, I guess, is up to the specific people participating in the debate. That's just in my opinion, if it's inappropriate then we don't need to attribute the feat to Rem here.

9) I think Arc 6 version of the current WN, where we see Shaula's feat, is most appropriate. For Reinhard, this would be after he has fought against Regulus/Sirius, and has stacked the Divine Protections he gained from those fights. Using or not using Reid... I do not know yet. But using Reid I think is what would be appropriate for Reinhard during vs battles, otherwise he would have to fight bare-handed after the first attack with any other sword. (which would reasonably be considered a major handicap for him, until we know how much force he can exert with his bare hands) For Shaula, he would likely fight well one-handed only. (I don't know... for a comparison, somewhat similar in handicap to Saber fighting one-handed in Fate/Zero? No true comparison that can be made here, though)

I did the Shaula calc myself, using how much speed needles (using 2-6 oz needles for sewing) should impact at to turn human head into gaseous fragments, from Julius/Subaru's perspective. However, I am not sure I can post translated the WN pages to quote the scenes; in the forum I made that calc, it was prohibited to do so for Re:Zero WN (English licensed), so I only posted it for a few hours to cross-examine them with others and deleted them aftwards.

This is the passage:

Julius:
ÒÇîÒüèÒüèÒéêÒüØÒÇüÒüôÒüôÒüïÒéëþøúÞªûÕíöÒü¥ÒüºÒü»ÕìüÒé¡Òâ¡ÕëìÕ¥î――Þè▒þòæÒü«µëïÕëìÒüïÒéëÒÇüÒé¿ÒâƒÒâ¬ÒéóµºÿÒü«Ú¡öµ│òÒéÆÚúøÒü░ÒüÖÒü¿ÒüäÒüåÒü«ÒééþÅ¥Õ«ƒþÜäÒü¬Õ░äþ¿ïÞÀØÚøóÒüºÒü»Òü¬ÒüäÒü¬ÒÇì "Until about here watchtower tens of kilometers around - even blowing Emilia's magic in front of a flower garden're not realistic range"

Subaru:
ÒüØÒééÒüØÒééÒÇüÒüôÒüúÒüíÒü«Õ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒéÆõ╝ØÒüêÒéïÒüáÒüæÒüºÚÇÜÒüùÒüªÒééÒéëÒüêÒéïÒü¬ÒéëÒÇüÒâ®ÒéñÒâ│ÒâÅÒâ½ÒâêÒüáÒüúÒüªÚÇÜÒéîÒüØÒüåÒü¬ÒééÒéôÒüáÒÇéÒüéÒüäÒüñÒü¬ÒéëÒÇüÒü¬ÒéôÒüïÒüôÒüå……ÕìüÒé¡Òâ¡ÒüÉÒéëÒüäÕàêÒü½Õ▒èÒüŵû¼µÆâÒü¿ÒüïÚúøÒü░ÒüøÒéïÒéôÒüÿÒéâÒü¬ÒüäÒü«´╝ƒ "If you could just pass by this place of the original charge exists, Reinhardt would you like to pass. If the guy, but somehow I do not fly ...... about ten kilometers before reaching a true shooting?" http://ncode.syosetu.com/n2267be/

Interpreting it as it is, the original novel (in Japanese language) seems to makes it quite clear that it's Shaula's range they are talking about, and they don't have the means to out-range that distance (using Emilia's magic or any other option they have at present).

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Heinkel

1) Oh i see


7.1) Well there was an entire discussion about cinematic time on here a while ago and from that this page was created, i don't think this falls under it so i think supersonic elsa might be ok but if we want to upgrade her we would have to create a content revision thread, no just a blog post with the calc of her speed would be ok and then have others look at it and if it's deemed ok then we can upgrade elsa.

8) I don't think it's appropriate as as i said it seems like an inconsistency as she isn't normally that strong so it's virutally useless in a vs battle.

9) Hmm so it's unclear whether it is base reinhard or with reid, in that case we should just give this feat to reinhard with reid then. Posting WN scenes should be ok as the WN is free on the internet for anyone to be able to access it, it's the LN that is licensed.

Translations are iffy as expected but i get the point. So yea using the basis for how much speed a needle must have to vaporize someone's head and that quote on her range i think mhs for shaula and by extension reinhard with reid is legit.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

8) Ok how about these scenes?













We don't need to get the exact TNT equivalent; we just have know whether she can destroy a Building, a Large Building, or a City Block with her attacks just by the look of it (if it's reasonably certain that the effect was realistic).

When the anime/manga Arc 3 are complete and I've tallied all the feats I can examine so far, I will make a blog here that show the calculations for those characters. The pages right now seem reasonable enough to me to indicate their conservative estimates.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well the first scene is just her stomping that witch cultist in the ground so that would just be wall level at best, i can agree with her physically being wall level in terms of ap but her durability would still be street level as she got hurt from getting stabbed by knives.

The other scenes are just the explosion caused by several witch cultist and not an ap feat for rem, it was already discussed and we decided that it was durability feat for rem with Human as she survived that explosion with no damage, either she was fast enough to escape the explosion which doesn't match up with her speed feats at the moment or she used a stronger Human to defend herself which we concluded that she likely used Human.

Yes the pages here are conservative estimate on the characters.

I think that calc for shaula deserves a blog now though as it would only scale to reinhard and it seems pretty straight forward just give background on the feat such as it being from the web novel which isn't yet fully translated and that from the summary of arc 6 shaula vaporized subaru's head with a needle and that she has a 10km range and she vaporized his head instantly. If you want to wait to make one big re zero blog that's fine though.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Well the first scene is just her stomping that witch cultist in the ground so that would just be wall level at best, i can agree with her physically being wall level in terms of ap but her durability would still be street level as she got hurt from getting stabbed by knives.'

The other scenes are just the explosion caused by several witch cultist and not an ap feat for rem, it was already discussed and we decided that it was durability feat for rem with Human as she survived that explosion with no damage, either she was fast enough to escape the explosion which doesn't match up with her speed feats at the moment or she used a stronger Human to defend herself which we concluded that she likely used Human.'Yes the pages here are conservative estimate on the characters.

I think that calc for shaula deserves a blog now though as it would only scale to reinhard and it seems pretty straight forward just give background on the feat such as it being from he web novel which isn't yet fully translated and that from the summary of arc 6 shaula vaporized subaru's head with a needle and that she has a 10km range and she vaporized his head instantly. If you want to wait to make one big re zero blog that's fine though.

1) I think those stab powers should be determined by how strong the person stabbing the knife is. The person was likely far stronger than a human adult male.


For example, this scene indicates that the stabber was at least a Superhuman. (jumping heights impossible by Peak Human world recorders)

The first video below is of Leonel Marshall. He is a Cuban professional volleyball player and is said to have a 50 inch vertical. This next guy is named Kadour Ziani. He is a professional dunker with Slam Nation and is said to hold the world record in the vertical jump at 60 inches!

http://www.flightbasketball.com/jumping/highest-jump/

We also sort of have this scene: Stop a Superhuman's (?) sword stab with her bare hand. (not with Human)

As for 2) I think the fireball can be scaled to her Durability while using magic. If she survived that fireball, which was calced to have a Building level AP, then her Human durability would be Building level as well by being able to survive it and continue fighting (which is still much weaker than the Ul Human she casts at the episode 20 Hakugei battle, and the Al Human she casts in the WN, both creating defensive ice walls). So getting that scene's AP is still relevant, I think, not for Rem's AP but the 5 minions' AP, that can then be scaled to anyone who withstand their fire magic attacks.

As for Rem's own AP, if we can discover how heavy that mace is, like by analyzing how much into the ground they are buried at rest, it would also allow us to calculate those mace's kinetic energy by multiplying the mass by its travel speed, that we have determined. (swing speed, for example; 18m/s, or Mach 0.054 for Normal humans. Mace heads at the end travel at the same speed as the hilt at arm's length - they just seem to travel longer)

The thing is that the mace has never actually impacted something with Wall or Room levels, as far as we can determine. So we don't know if she's really Street level, Wall level, or Room level... with something heavy, she may very well destroy extra thickness of wall at once, may be not.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Heinkel Well yea clearly the witch cultist aren't regular humans and are superhuman but the thing is though a knife is knife unless stated otherwise. The knife still managed to pierce her, even if the witch cultist are superhuman it doesn't mean the knives have superhuman piercing capacities.So in short we have to assume it's a regular knife unless it was stated to be special now i think the knives could very well have superhuman piercing capicities but there is no evidence for it so we can't accept that.

The fireball was calced at building level, where? Well i don't think we can scale Human and el Human like that they are two different techniques, one creates a barrier the other controls water.

Well the mace has dented walls like in ep 7 when it was lodged into the rock behind subaru after he deflected it and in episode 17 when rem let go of it and made a crater in the ground.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

This is a better image for the sword stopping feat: She freezes the person only after she has already blocked it with her hand without using any magic yet.

So what we need to discover is how much stronger those cultists were compared to normal humans.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This is a better image for the sword stopping feat: She freezes the person only after she has already blocked it with her hand without using any magic yet.
So what we need to discover is how much stronger those cultists were compared to normal humans.

Can't see the image, access was denied. Don't know she has clearly been stabbed by the those knives before, might just be a case of her using magic in just her hands to enhance her stats to be able to stop the knife with her that, either that or she was able to stop it because was on guard while the other ones caught her off guard so she couldn't defend against them.

Rem got hurt after falling out of the carriage but she wasn't in oni form so she might not have taken damage with it, either way we just have to go off of what we can prove right now and not assumptions.

Well don't think you can exactly determine how strong they are to normal humans at the moment really.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

The fireball was calced at building level, where? Well i don't think we can scale Human and el Human like that they are two different techniques, one creates a barrier the other controls water.

No, what I means is that we have to calc it since it's an important part of Rem's durability feat. I'm doing it now, not that I already did.

If that explosion was Building level (or 0.5 tons of TNT), then her durability is Building level while using magic. There's a computation for this by using the observed radius of a fireball (minimum energy contained within the fireball only; and no not using that youtube video. It's a formula). I'm suggesting that we should perform it. I'll show the calcs later if I can confirm that it is doable in that scene.

This is the image for sword blocking. She uses magic after she already has stopped the sword with her hand.

As for the sword itself, the force of the sword accounts for both its own mass, plus the speed of the wielder himself (if the wielder is Peak Human or Superhuman, that changes the equation compared to Human, even if the sword itself is identical).

Anyway, at least, it seems to me that Rem can block sword swings of Peak Humans/Superhumans with her bare hand while she is knocked on the ground. I know this doesn't invalidate the fact that she can be moderately wounded if stabbed in the back, but at other times she's also capable of avoiding major injuries by Street level attacks point-blank by using her hand as a shield. (if she is not ambushed)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Hienkel Ok so you're going to calc it, thought you already did.

Well even from that image of her blocking the sword on the tip of the blade there is blood visible so i think it's clear that she got hurt catching the sword.

Rem has a low level regen so a cut from catching a sword wouldn't really affect her and also rem has high endurance so she can take a lot of damage and still keep going.

Anyway still think her durability physically is street level she got hurt by swords there is no going around it.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Well, according to vsBattles Durability system, a Street level durability combatant is someone who is unable to survive this.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Durability
"Wall level (Able to survive being hit by a speeding car or other things that would demolish a tree/wall)

Durability is the property which guarantees the ability to survive a certain amount of force. Not to be confused with Endurance. Durability is the ability to withstand damage, while Endurance is a measure of stamina."

This is what Rem is able to survive (you can see she tanks it without Human): https://youtu.be/P8Vdyr2rqQc

But I don't really understand the vs system yet. So if Rem physically surviving a landslide that can demolish trees and walls, or collides with her harder than a speeding car, is superceded by her getting injured by sword slashes from superhumans, then alright. I will agree with that point of view, since you are more experienced in examining this matter.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

She survive that in her normal form, not her oni form, doesn't seem quite right to me that her normal form could survive something like that though even her normal form can do things like jump several meters in the air and lift her heavy mace.

Though i still think she isn't wall level her endurance is very high evident by the fact that she was still alive after all that betelguese did to her plus all the wounds she had before.

She may have survived that land slide but a normal person probably could as well if even for a short while and rem had enough time to transform into her oni form which gives her low level regen though a normal person shouldn't have been able to stand up after such an attack but she still got hurt by swords i don't see anyway around it.

It could just be a case of split durability where she can be pierced by swords but can survive wall level brute force damage.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Yeah, but the point is are we going to allow people to become aware of her landslide-tanking feat (in fighting condition) or not? Like, are we not going to show them that video in her durability feat list, to give them examples of what level of impact she can survive and continue fighting? And also take note of the distance she fell, head-first. Then she proceeds to resume wrecking the Ulgarm dogs again right afterwards.

And I don't know if Endurance is necessarily linked to the ability to withstand damage, so that she can perform something. Again, is this how I am supposed to interpret the relationship between Endurance and damage?

"Durability is the property which guarantees the ability to survive a certain amount of force. Not to be confused with Endurance. Durability is the ability to withstand damage, while Endurance is a measure of stamina."

In addition, as I've pointed out, we don't actually know how powerful those sword swings striking her were. We do not have a real calc for that (other than that they were Superhumans) that can mathematically provide a counter-envidence if a higher tier durability feat appears through empirical observation. If a higher durability standard can be established by analyzing other examples of Rem clearly surviving more powerful baselines (such as a landslide, followed by at least several ten meters of fall head-first), why can't this be constituted as Rem being able to survive Wall-level (speeding cars or something that demolishes a tree) injuries, without using Human magic? The resulting interpretation would then be that she is unable to survive something that can demolish a tree (which is inconsistent with the fact that she actually did).

And I am just curious, that's all. I appreciate your effort to explain these things to me. I just don't know the system very well yet.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Having thought about i think this is either one of two things either she can take wall level brute force damage but can't take piercing attacks or she can take wall level damage but those knives can damage wall level people. The thing is though saying those knives are special would be kind of making an assumption and what we need most often is clear cut proof which we don't have in this case, but making some assumptions if they are reasonable is ok.

I am now more inclined to believe that those knives are special as it is the preferred weapon of superhumans who can use magic would seem like a really inefficient weapon if they can use magic to me.

Anyway as i said it's either one of those two things, the former is a conservative answer while the latter isn't so much. I want to hear others opinions on this as well.

 

[ZERO7772]

Wow i missed a lot of the party it seems o_0 too many long reply i can't keep up xD

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Okay, thanks for the clarification. I want to hear what others think about this too.

Well, if it's any help, a cultist's knife cut through Ram's horn near-instantly. (which, I think is reasonable to assume, is at least as durable as her own skull bone) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oT_DscL8ZI

Then there is also the part where one of them decapitated an Earth Dragon's head in one 'slash', during the ambush, though I don't know if that was Wind magic or not, like what Ram uses.

What I know is that Earth Dragons are supposed to be very resistant to Wind. http://rezero.wikia.com/wiki/Divine_Protection#Divine_Protection_of_Wind_Evasio

I think we can use Ram's example conservatively, while the Earth Dragon's example should be treated like those cultists' higher bases. (cut a crocodile's head instantly with or without using magic, with preparation, etc.)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Wow i missed a lot of the party it seems o_0 too many long reply i can't keep up xD

Essential what went down:

Reinhard is likely massively hypersonic with reid as he is superior to reid who is superior to shaula and shaula has 10km range for her attacks and she evaporated subaru's head, for a needle to evaporate a persons head it requires mhs speeds.

Reinhard destroyed more than old man rom's house in the manga and LN he destroyed several buildings and a giant stone wall so he should probably be higher than building level. Then i brought up the question of which version of the series should we use to gauge the characters, which we haven't really discussed.

Using the anime elsa is supersonic for what she did against reinhard, theresia is hypersonic for killing all the demihumans before wilheim got killed.

All this discussion was based on the calcs on this site https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/re-zero-technical-support-feats.416860/

And now we are discussion rem's durability and now at either it being wall level to brute force attacks but street level to piercing attacks or just wall level because the cultist probably have wall level damaging knives.

 

[ZERO7772]

1-MHS is completely new to me though seeing this you may have a point If shaula have MHS speed feat then it's natural for reingard to have it it's give the same speed to reid and the sage

2-We goes by the original work not the adaptation one , most of reinhard feat were took from the WN\LN why are now arguing on the anime ? If the anime and the LN are different then we go by the original one

3-seems legit to me after reading the discussion about it especially theresia part

Hmm we went on that serval times already is there a proof that witch cult have wall level knives ? Rem tanked serval attacks that make her easily wall level but she was easily hurt by the witch cult does this count as proof ?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

1-MHS is completely new to me though seeing this you may have a point If shaula have MHS speed feat then it's natural for reingard to have it it's give the same speed to reid and the sage
2-We goes by the original work not the adaptation one , most of reinhard feat were took from the WN\LN why are now arguing on the anime ? If the anime and the LN are different then we go by the original one

3-seems legit to me after reading the discussion about it especially theresia part

Hmm we went on that serval times already is there a proof that witch cult have wall level knives ? Rem tanked serval attacks that make her easily wall level but she was easily hurt by the witch cult does this count as proof ?

1. Mhs was new to me too but i think it's legit subaru was apparently 10km away from the tower when he got shot by shaula and she did that in an instance and if the calc is legit if a needle really needs to be moving at mhs speeds to evaporate someone's head then reinhard is mhs with reid.

2. Yea i know that the thing is though the WN is what started first and it's further ahead in the story but the LN is really the official thing and there are differences between the two and the anime just complicates this even more the anime is supervised by the author. We should go by LN feats if they are there but if we go strictly by that then we can't use the later feats so i think web novel should also be used, also think the anime is fine as long as it doesn't contradict anything in the LN so i think the LN reinhard feat should be taken but then this gets ahgain complicated by the fact that we don't have translations for the LN or WN.

3. Seems legit to me too

Idk she tanked attacks that should make her wall level but was still hurt by the culist knives, there is no proof the knives are wall level, i am just gonna go with her having wall level durability but can still be hurt by piercing attacks.

 

[ZERO7772]

1- Well make sense since if reid above her and reinhard is above reid then he easily MHS Though i am not sure if shooting subaru from 10 KM in instant give her MHS I am just playing along here

2-We go by the official LN even if the WIN is original it's not official doesn't matter if the author help in the anime it's just "adaptation " accroding to him so you can't expect everything to play exactly like the LN , he did this feat in the LN we can't change it just because the anime didn't include it

Then nothing change .....

 

[ZERO7772]

I maybe wrong but shaula from what i remember forced reid to use two hands twice in every te attacks in another words he use two hands in ever five attacks

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well from a simply calc going 10km in 1 sec is like mach 29 so high hypersonic, the needle speed thing might not be certain but at the very least it's a high hypersonic feat.

Yea i know the LN is official and that's what we should based things on but it's far behind the WN so if a feat happens in the LN that is the one that should be used but because it's behind the WN for later feats we will use the WN until we can see the LN version of things i am guessing.

It's actually once every 10 times, it doesn't change much anyway she still isn't on reid's level.

 

[ZERO7772]

Hmm then you're main point to make her MHS is the fact she evaporated subarus head and not really because she can shout someone from 10km in 1 sec because you can't be count as MHS unless you at least 100mach speed feat

pretty much what you said , if LN change things then we go with it but as long it's behind the WN we go by the WN feats


I just wanted to make the gap look smaller but it seems i was wrong xD but yeah i know she isn't reid level , she still above all likes of "puck-roswaal-ram-" easily

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

No she can shoot people 10km away in an instant which would require at least high hypersonic speeds, but yea mach 100 comes from subaru's head being evaporated it's just a calc to see just how fast a needle would have to go to be able to evaporate a persons head. I am not sure if mach 100 is correct based on the logic used in the calc however if it isn't the feat is still high hypersonic for the needle to be able to cover 10km instantaneously.

Well she is still behind reid but she will still easily beat pretty much everyone else, only reid and characters above him can take her.

Btw did you know that reinhard can't use magic? Yea makes sense why he doesn't have any offensive hax.

 

[ZERO7772]

So if we all agree on "High hypersonic " how about upgrading reinhard ?

i still don't know where the dragon fit in this , isn't it featless ? though it should abou reid , sage tier if we talk about hype it should be leags above all Archbishops

Reinhard just have massive plot armor