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Randolph Carter vs The Numidium

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Because it will be a shitshow. 1-A matches are rarely constructive discussions. There are probably less people on this board with enough knowledge of both verse's then you could count on 1 hand.
 
Well it's fine if you guys don't want to deal with this battle but I'll still leave it open for those who enjoy the challenge.
 
Only thing that's gonna keep Randolph from realizing he never existed in the first place is type 5 acausality. I would say inconclusive. They both 1 shot each other.
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
Only thing that's gonna keep Randolph from realizing he never existed in the first place is type 5 acausality. I would say inconclusive. They both 1 shot each other.
Click to expand...
Might I ask as to why you believe this?
 
Numidium has EE that works on beings with True Godly but Randolph is higher on 1-A scale and probably has the AP to 1 shot Numidium due to existing beyond the second gate.
 
I personally don't think Numidiumm can EE Randolph because I don't recall Numidium's EE able to work on far more complex 1-As. I think its safe to say that Randolph, being an eternal archetype is far stronger than even other incredibly powerful 1-As such as Hypnos.
 
Abu2411 said:
I personally don't think Numidiumm can EE Randolph because I don't recall Numidium's EE able to work on far more complex 1-As. I think its safe to say that Randolph, being an eternal archetype is far stronger than even other incredibly powerful 1-As such as Hypnos.
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So you are voting for Carter then?
 
Yeah I'm voting for Carter, also I think World Refusals are only infallible in the Scrollsverse, you shouldn't be able to apply it to other verses just because they have a slightly similar cosmology.

I think we should get Azzy on here, but I personally believe Carter to be at the very LEAST on the level of the Ultimate Gate, possibly Outer God level. That already means Carter's level of existence is infinitely higher than anything that is not Tier 0, and as such, the Numidium can not do a WR because it would be NLF to say that it coukd work on such a complex 1-A entity.
 
First, you can't add 1-A battles anymore.

Secondly, you are violating the site rule of verse equalization. World Refusal should work as it should be like Itachi's genjutsu should work with non-chakra people from other verses. People have been calling the World Refusal as Tier 0 hax because it forces everything to merge or dissolve back to The Amaranth. THE HOUSE OF WE

Not even God can bring you back. It is very messy to debate 1-A battles, but the Numidium is just on the whole level of bullshitry
 
Still, Randolph is far above the Numidium and any other 1-A in the Elder Scrolls, and the WR has never worked on a being near Randolph's level of existence.

So what exactly do World Refusals do? Let's see.

"World-Refusals: Refute and deny the existence of individuals and expose that they're merely illusory constructs within the Dream of the Godhead, forcing them to undergo Zero-Sum and vanish from the Dream."

As you can tell, it uses concepts such as "Dream" and "Zero-Sum" that are strictly only in the Elder Scrolls, but I guess we can use verse equalisation and say it works on Carter.

Even then, saying its Tier 0 hax is exactly a NLF because it uses the Numidium's own power rather than the Amaranth's or Anu's. It is the Numidium which exposes the individual, not any Tier 0 being. As such it should not work on Randolph .
 
Abu2411 said:
Still, Randolph is far above the Numidium and any other 1-A in the Elder Scrolls, and the WR has never worked on a being near Randolph's level of existence.
So what exactly do World Refusals do? Let's see.

"World-Refusals: Refute and deny the existence of individuals and expose that they're merely illusory constructs within the Dream of the Godhead, forcing them to undergo Zero-Sum and vanish from the Dream."

As you can tell, it uses concepts such as "Dream" and "Zero-Sum" that are strictly only in the Elder Scrolls, but I guess we can use verse equalisation and say it works on Carter.

Even then, saying its Tier 0 hax is exactly a NLF because it uses the Numidium's own power rather than the Amaranth's or Anu's. It is the Numidium which exposes the individual, not any Tier 0 being. As such it should not work on Randolph .
Click to expand...
I don't want to debate who is exactly stronger. It is pointless anyway.

Your denial of disregarding World-Refusal just simply baffles me. It straight up violates the rules of verse equalisation.

Secondly, the exposure to the realization of non-existence is insane because Randoph and everyone else is straight up fictional. A figment of an "omnipotent" being of sorts. They don't exist in any sense relatively speaking. World-Refusal exposes these people to such realization that they will start denying their own existence. Promptly, they dissolve into non-existence forever.
 
What I'm trying to say is that assuming the World Refusal works on entities far, far beyond the Numidium's comprehension is a NLF. It doesn't matter how broken it is, it can't work on a being vastly superior to it, otherwise the Numidium would be the strongest 1-A on the wiki otherwise.

I apologise for not clarifying my point earlier, I was and still am pretty tired :(

Also, how is it possible for Randolph to realise anything if he is Omniscient? He already knows everything and knows how he is just a dream of Azathoth.
 
I don't think that using "muh transcendence leveling chain" is the best way to debate a 1-A match.

In fact, I don't even know if there's a legit good way to debated Vs. matches between 1-A characters from verses whose 1-A system functions very differently.
 
I'm pretty sure transcendence leveling chain is the only way to attempt to debate 1-A matches. But it requires in-depth understanding of everything to do with both fictional continuities. And that is very tough to do.
 
Carter stomps. Zachary is right here. "muh transcendence leveling chain" is the best way actually. Just depends on the cosmology size most of the time.
 
KongKing23 said:
First, you can't add 1-A battles anymore.
Secondly, you are violating the site rule of verse equalization. World Refusal should work as it should be like Itachi's genjutsu should work with non-chakra people from other verses. People have been calling the World Refusal as Tier 0 hax because it forces everything to merge or dissolve back to The Amaranth. THE HOUSE OF WE

Not even God can bring you back. It is very messy to debate 1-A battles, but the Numidium is just on the whole level of bullshitry
Click to expand...
Apologies. I didn't realise. I will close this then. Thank you for letting me know.
 
KongKing23 said:
Abu2411 said:
Still, Randolph is far above the Numidium and any other 1-A in the Elder Scrolls, and the WR has never worked on a being near Randolph's level of existence.
So what exactly do World Refusals do? Let's see.

"World-Refusals: Refute and deny the existence of individuals and expose that they're merely illusory constructs within the Dream of the Godhead, forcing them to undergo Zero-Sum and vanish from the Dream."

As you can tell, it uses concepts such as "Dream" and "Zero-Sum" that are strictly only in the Elder Scrolls, but I guess we can use verse equalisation and say it works on Carter.

Even then, saying its Tier 0 hax is exactly a NLF because it uses the Numidium's own power rather than the Amaranth's or Anu's. It is the Numidium which exposes the individual, not any Tier 0 being. As such it should not work on Randolph .
Click to expand...
I don't want to debate who is exactly stronger. It is pointless anyway.
Your denial of disregarding World-Refusal just simply baffles me. It straight up violates the rules of verse equalisation.

Secondly, the exposure to the realization of non-existence is insane because Randoph and everyone else is straight up fictional. A figment of an "omnipotent" being of sorts. They don't exist in any sense relatively speaking. World-Refusal exposes these people to such realization that they will start denying their own existence. Promptly, they dissolve into non-existence forever.
Click to expand...
But out of curiosity... didn't carter already know that he was but a peice of a dream?
 
Yes, he was granted omniscience by Yog-sothot. So hypothetically even if Numidium's hax some how was able to work on a infinitely more complex 1-A like Carter it wouldn't have any effect since Carter already knows he is in a dream.
 
Abu2411 said:
Yes, he was granted omniscience by Yog-sothot. So hypothetically even if Numidium's hax some how was able to work on a infinitely more complex 1-A like Carter it wouldn't have any effect since Carter already knows he is in a dream.
Click to expand...
Yeah that was what I was thinking as well.
 
Abu2411 said:
Yes, he was granted omniscience by Yog-sothot. So hypothetically even if Numidium's hax some how was able to work on a infinitely more complex 1-A like Carter it wouldn't have any effect since Carter already knows he is in a dream.
Click to expand...
Vivec and Talos also knew everything is a dream and could not defeat numidium, his hax is more than "if u dont know everything is fiction you die"
 
All it does is forceful zero-sum which is forcing them to realize it's all a dream therefore you don't actually exist. The thing is Carter has been beyond the Ultimate Gate so he already knows he's a dream and the mechanics of TES where knowing your a dream means you don't exist unless you forcefully keep your sense of self doesn't happen in the Mythos so I don't know how that's going to equalize. It isn't meta-fictional erasure.

Also he isn't going to erase someone who's beyond infinite layers of transcendance above him regardless. That's like saying he's going to erase Anu.
 
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