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Time for another Rakudai revision these are mostly from the last released chapter with a few corrections along the way. Though on the first few points im not really expecting any debate as they are just facts

Ikki's Multiplier
Now as it was (iirc) agreed in the other thread for Ikki's multiplier to change from:

Ittou Shura: 48x

Rasetsu: 500x

To:

Ittou Shura: At least 10x, likely far higher

Rasetsu: At least 200x, likely far higher

This comes because 2 different sources use 2 different terms for the things. So we just stuck with the lower of the 2 as lowball and the higher as a highball (the highballs would be the previous multipliers). Though this is just for "profile purposes", so it doesn't matter all that much.

What does matter is the next point

Ikki's Attack Potency
This....is my fault. Due to my mistake Ikki is currently scaled from Stella Vermillio in terms of AP, and that is incorrect. Just a normal example scaling chain so you understand why he scales so massively below he...doesn't scale at all:

Dragon Spirit Stella Vermillio > absolutely stomped effortlessly > Ouma Kurogane > who absolutely stomped effortlessly > Renji Kaga > Who is so much stronger than Ikki, ikki had to use his skill to match his strength

So Ikki has a scaling chain of 3 massive stomps and his massive skill in play (said skill was actually capable of making him block Stella's attacks the same way), which makes the scaling basically non existent. I realized this after a re-read of the scenes.

So instead Ikki should be scaled from his previous arc as there are no better feats.

Ikki and Stella's new abilities

  • Ikki's Durability Negation (likely Limited). Although he can damage people like Stella or Ouma, he does not do this through AP but rather through limited Durability negation which comes from slashing. Due to the fact that his weapon is a katana which cuts, it is far easier for him to damage people way beyond his own AP paygrade. And if a feat or explanation is needed then here is Ikki calling cutting a metal pipe with a piece of paper a piece of cake once he masters Edelweiss' sword technique (which he does)
    • This training is to let my body make precise movements for the sake of not causing any loss or deviation. If I am able to use Edelweiss's sword technique, using paper to cut metal will be a piece of cake. Just......that alone is not enough. No matter how accurately I move my body, if I don't read the changes in the external factors and correspond to them, a loss will still happen as a result. That's why......
  • Precognition for Stella. Similar to Ikki, in the latest volume she saw visions of her own death.
    • But, one step. Just one step she gave towards Edelweiss, ――In an instant, A strong and blizzard-like cold intuition struck Stella's brain, and she saw it. The inevitability of a tenth of a second in which her limbs and neck were vigorously cut off.
      *Edelweiss' Accelerated Development. In the latest volume Edelweiss states that she grows at speeds far exceeding even Ikki or Stella (who as stated during the SSSAF arc developed several decades in an instant).
      **― No. At that time, I went with all my strength. … But when you say that I feel like a higher wall than before, it is because I have gotten far stronger in comparison to the speed at which you develop.
  • Edelweiss' Information Analysis and Resistance to Information Analysis. Stella who could read the information of other people couldn't do such a thing to Edelweiss even though she tried. From the wording, it seems that not even Ikki could read Edelweiss' info.
    • What surprised her more than anything was that her center of gravity, from that look of hers, couldn't be read where it was. She read all the information of the other party at a glance and absolutely no information was given to the other party.
  • Edelweiss >> Ikki skill wise. Stella stated that while Ikki's lack of gaps was impressive, Edelweiss' natural stance was on another level.
    • The lack of gaps of Ikki was pretty significant, but her appearance was beyond his. She had never seen a natural stance so complete like this.
That's about it for the normal additions. The last thing is, Stella will get a new key, the AP and other stats will scale from her previous tier, the only difference will be more abilities.

Desperado Hax
Oh boi. Here we go. The newest chapter gave a LOT of context on Desperados in general, what they can do and how their powers work. And there is a LOT to cover. So before going onto the powers we got context on how they are "activated". They work on "bloodlust". If a desperado shows bloodlust then the hax will kick in, if they don't, they can still use some hax, not all of them though. This is why for some desperados like Edelweiss, Nasseem and Or Gaule the fear hax is passive, whereas for others like Ikki and Nene it is not. Because, the former normally have a bloodlusted mindset, whereas pacifists like Ikki and Nene do not share this trait. Now onto the additions:

1.Fear Hax affects the soul. This was stated before, but i dismissed it as flowery writing because the line was "his soul was shrieking" which is usually flowery writing however in the new chapter it was explained:

  • ― There are no walls here. You just aren't moving voluntarily. ― It's me, you say? ― Your soul understands the meaning of moving even further, and it's being intimidated by it.
2. People understand that they will die if they fight Edelweiss. It seems to be that they consciously feel this instead of being forced to feel it. (will be explained later on)

  • In the past, a young samurai stood before her in the, blocking her way for his dearest little sister, he frenetically tried to control his body and heart that tried to ran away, trembling in fear while knowing that he would die if he opposed her.
3. Causality Manipulation and Fate Manipulation. They use these 2 to manipulate people into doing or not doing something if they so wish. Nene did this to control stella's movement (Stella wasn't feeling any bloodlust from Nene). This can result in virtually any effect including Willpower Manipulation, Body Puppetry.

  • The words of Saikyou Nene. Nene's words tied to her when she tried to charge at《Haboob》. An invisible pressure. That was also the result of her『intention』being swallowed deeply by her causality.
4. Continuing from point 2, here is edelweiss explaining that Stella consciously understands that she cannot win. And this applies to everyone, not just stella, from fodder soldiers who aren't even blazers to other desperados like Nene.

  • There is an isolated difference in true strength between you and me. If we were to face each other, the end of it would be clear, that is something that you yourself understand. You end up understanding deep down yourself that you can't win against me.
5. People self induce effects. They also become fated to die the moment they challenge a desperado.

  • Since the result is completely decided with all that, and your fate in that case, then there is no need to go through that process anymore. Stella had stepped straight into her fate of death
  • As long as you feel their fate, you will not have the chance to escape. You will keep being attracted by the gravitational pull of the《Desperados》and their fate will lead you to the end of what you also have imagined.
This pretty much means that, whatever you feel from a desperado you will end up doing to yourself. However this seems to apply only on negative effects as Stella becoming confident to win against Nassem didn't go all that well. As such simply being near a desperado will end up in people feeling that they will die, lose etc, and die the way they imagine they will. For stella it was being cut as such her body was continuously being cut, the only reason she came out alive was because Edelweiss stopped the effect.

6. They have apparently a stronger "gravitaional pull of causality and end". Which basically means their fate is stronger than normal fate hax because it's coming from a being who has transcended causality.

  • I strongly have the『intention』to hurt you a little, the gravitational pull of my fate swallows you, and the causality are… tied together in the way and shape they should be.
  • As the distance between the two decreased, the gravitational pull of《Wings Abreast》tied to causality and end didn't seem to sway.
8. Deciding to take on desperados instantly fate haxes you.

  • Stella surpassed the will to try challenging Edelweiss, and therefore, this situation developed. It was for this reason that it only worked on Stella as she had taken the decision to face Edelweiss in this place.
9. Continuing from 4 and 2. The fate of desperados is an aura itself that shows "death". Feeling this will result in you deciding your own fate.

  • ― This self-direction regarding causality is a special characteristic that not only I or the《Desperado》own, but that everyone owns. You should have felt it when you confronted《Marionette King》, 《Haboob》 and the others, haven't you? It is on their backs, the fate called their death. As long as you feel their fate, you will not have the chance to escape. You will keep being attracted by the gravitational pull of the《Desperados》and their fate will lead you to the end of what you also have imagined. The beings that overcome this, and that transcended causality like me――are no other than 《Desperados》.
So while most of this wouldn't give new powers, it would give more applications and context to their already existing powers and explain the reason they can fear hax, fate hax, death hax, etc people with just their will.
 
I just have a question, why exactly the fate hax being linked to causality makes it stronger than regular fate hax?

Aside from that I agree with everything.
 
Well because rakudai treats fate as part of causality as it should be even according to our standards. As such they mean it as a stronger binding to fate and it's results. Which is why she gets swallowed by their greater gravitational pull. That seems to be the context.

Edel even calls it the gravitational pull of my fate in the first quote. So since she has transcended fate her fate is stronger.
 
I knew fate and causality are the same in Rakudai, I just wanted to know how would that translate to verse equalization. Thanks for explaning.
 
Ionliosite said:
I knew fate and causality are the same in Rakudai, I just wanted to know how would that translate to verse equalization. Thanks for explaning.
Well it would just apply to both. Causality and fate in rakudai are linked rather than the same. Stronger causality means stronger fate and vice versa. So we just use this to define the 2.

As edel says gravitational pull of my fate which is tied to causality.
 
Schnee One said:
So 8A Base Ikki then? Rest seems fine.
He may scale from his Ittou Shura form.

I mean he should be at least about as strong as he was previously in ittou shura from several cases like fairing better against Ouma and Edel etc. It's a lowball but it's the best we can give him.
 
Can somebody provide a TL;DR summary of the arguments and conclusions here? I do not have a lot of time available.
 
Okay. I skimmed through the first post. I suppose that it seems to make sense.
 
The multiplier was not agreed on. You were asked to find the specific original chapters for them, and then ask someone that understands Japanese to check it and tell us how much the multiplier's reasonable low-ball actually is.

Other than that, the rest seems fine.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
The multiplier was not agreed on. You were asked to find the specific original chapters for them, and then ask someone that understands Japanese to check it and tell us how much the multiplier's reasonable low-ball actually is.
Other than that, the rest seems fine.
We did get the "10 and 200" as lowballs though. As no matter what translation you get they cannot make a mistake of "a hundred" to "hundreds/several/many hundred", in other words a mistake from singular to plural. So the 200 is fine.

As for the 10, it won't be going lower than that. It might go back to "dozens" but i'd need to find the raw Rakudai chapters, which i am unable to do.

So the lowball-highball current situation is the closest we're gonna get to the correct multipliers.
 
It not going lower doesn't make it right. I don't want Rakudai to be as low as possible or anything, if the multipliers imply 20 or 50 then those should be used.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
It not going lower doesn't make it right. I don't want Rakudai to be as low as possible or anything, if the multipliers imply 20 or 50 then those should be used.
I know, that's why it's not "as low as possible". But rather "at least 10, likely far higher". Which implies, "At absolute worst, it is 10 (it cannot go lower), but it could go to as much as 50". That's the idea of "possibly far higher".

I know you're trying give rakudai correct info, but asking me to get the raw scans which as i've stated am unable to do is just unreasonable.

It should stay as i've stated in the OP (as that seems to be what people agreed to mostly), until someone gets the raw scans. I have someone who could help translate, so if someone finds the scan, then i can translate it.
 
But there is a way to just ignore the nebolous possibility and ask someone to tell us for sure. All you need is a link and at max a few weeks of patience.

I very much doubt you can't fine the chapter number where the multiplier was stated, and finding a raw of that chapter should not be difficult either.
 
But it is a pdf so instead of downloading and screenshotting every chapter I'd prefer if you could tell me which one is needed.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
...And up to 11, the later ones are for the manga only.
Well the problem is...the manga is an adaptation. Not the original source.

Ittou Shura is literally the 1st fight in the entire show. So 1st chapter of the novels (after the prologue).

Ittou Rasetsu, is Volume 3 chapter 4.

If we wanna try the manga, then sure. I'd need to check it though. Gimmie a sec.
 
Aight, will download those and see if mtl-ing it let's me guess which parts are the multipliers that matter.
 
My non-phone internet is pretty shitty due to weather, but I should be able to get it done in a few hours, or by tomorrow if Zeus keeps up his tantrum.
 
I agree with the OP

One thing though, the excerpt being used for information analysis resistance would also imply info analysis for herself

"She read all the information of the other party at a glance and absolutely no information was given to the other party"
 
@Paul

Edelweiss does already have information analysis. That's why i didn't mention it.

Edit: Nvm she apparently doesn't. Then yes, Info analysis for her.
 
I have a problem with Info analysis. Stella doesn't have information analysis in her profile and I don't remember her having one besides Ikki. I need more justification on the Stella having one and an excerpt that Ikki can't info analysis Edelweiss because those two are different matter
 
Well, the thing, is in that very scene, Stella tries to read her opponent's information. Like how she could read that Habob was a boxer just from his stance, what his moves would consist of etc. And she even says that "she tried to read the center of gravity but failed to do so".

And for Ikki it says "She read all the information of the other party at a glance and absolutely no information was given to the other party."

The other party would consist of Ikki.
 
I'm a bit iffy with info analysis

Edelweiss having resistance to info manipulation with that justification is kinda iffy. I mean this will cause a bit of a problem because characters like Han Jee-Ha who has game powers and one of them was info analysis which enables him to get a status information box on that character explaining the Health bar, Mana Bar, Strength, Speed etc. then suddenly he can't get the information of Edelweiss because she resisted Stella.

But the rest I agree with them
 
Well it depends, it's not too strong. Her natural stance is too perfect so it cannot be analyzed, that's the idea. If you use hax to read stuff like that it should still work. It would stop things like:

  • Analytical Prediction
  • Skill based Technique Mimicry
  • Analytical Prediction
Etc. So skill based things as the resistance is just her being too perfect to be read.
 
MrDrProfessorPatricio said:
If that's the case then all is good.
It pretty much just won't stop hax, only skill based abilities.

I guess that at this point we're just waiting for Risci to read the raws and see if he can find the actual wording.
 
Apparently with my great internet it will be downloaded in 15 minutes if it doesn't give out again. If it does give out I'll just link the torrent.
 
MrDrProfessorPatricio said:
Firephoenixearl said:
Should i go ahead and apply the rest of these additions then?
I'm fine with all of that but I think we need to hear more opinions from others.
Well considering we have 7 votes, it should be fine.

@Ant

What do you think?
 
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