Questionable Regeneration Chaos Energy (Archie-Comics)

[y3p_owo]

Sure

 

[Theuser789]

There we go. I think that's enough context. Eggman destroyed the emerald Mogul was in, he should've died, but used his chaos energy to reform his body. No incorporeality, ghost, or anything else. Just regen of the destruction of his body

And you reckon there was a uh

Mogul-shaped hole, carved on the inside of the Emerald, then?

Your thoughts now?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Mogul was sealed in the Emerald
Emerald is broken so Mogul gets free
Mogul uses the energy to make himself physical

this isn't incongruent with what I was already on. My thoughts are the same. "possibly Low-Godly" regeneration is fine, but it's a stretch by my reckoning. There's no good showing of such a feat.

 

[Theuser789]

When does Mogul become incorporeal in the first place, so that he can use energy to become physical?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

There we go. I think that's enough context. Eggman destroyed the emerald Mogul was in, he should've died, but used his chaos energy to reform his body. No incorporeality, ghost, or anything else. Just regen of the destruction of his body

Sure

I think keeping Low-Godly is fine based on these posts.

 

[ElixirBlue]

this isn't incongruent with what I was already on. My thoughts are the same. "possibly Low-Godly" regeneration is fine, but it's a stretch by my reckoning. There's no good showing of such a feat.

"Likely" would be more appropriate.

There is another aspect of the Power Rings I forgot to mention earlier.

After being freed from the Master Emerald, Mogul sought out the Power Rings to maintain himself. If Mogul was recovering from being in a state of "life essence", it would make sense to seek them out.

The chaotic energy of Power Rings provides and protects life energy. When Dr. Robotnik want to have complete enslavement of someone else's willpower, the Power Ring saved Sonic's willpower by protecting his "life force".

That's not all. The chaos energy of Power Rings can also bring back the 'spark of life' of an individual (a roboticized, organic being) after they died.

The Power Rings Mogul uses to make sure his state doesn't "disappear into the immaterial" can absorb, retain, and provide life energy. Life energy Mogul needed after the Master Emerald used his life essence as a battery.

References
Sonic & Knuckles: Mecha Madness
Sonic the Hedgehog issue #136

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I think keeping Low-Godly is fine based on these posts.

Excuse me, but How is this a low regeneration feat, of any kind?

In Neither of the scans are we shown a full physical destruction that get regenerated nor was such a statement made. The 2nd scan was also cropped, in the original description to make it fit more with what they were sending. The 2nd scan legit tell us he was able to heal himself BEFORE losing his bad due to using chaos energy as HEALIING, and had lots of will power.... Now I am seeing the full scan of it I am even more sure, that Low godly is not possible with it's current feats and statements.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Neutral atm, I'll come back to this and reconsider my position after reading over things again.

 

[ElixirBlue]

The 2nd scan legit tell us he was able to heal himself BEFORE losing his bad due to using chaos energy as HEALIING, and had lots of will power.... Now I am seeing the full scan

What scan are you seeing that said heal? I don't see anything like that.

I DO see Mogul reforming on his own before using his willpower to maintain himself and seek out Power Rings to stabilize. That's what is being shown on the scans.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I DO see Mogul reforming on his own before using his willpower to maintain himself and seek out Power Rings to stabilize. That's what is being shown on the scans.

Healing reference to ANY outside source that is helping to heal or regenerate.

Also, if he is reforming on his own without using chaos energy, why is it on the page as a "general ability"?

 

[ElixirBlue]

The Mammoth is using chaos energy but Mogul's chaos energy is coming from internally within himself from his fused chaos emerald, not externally.

Power Rings provide additional energy so Mogul can remain materialized.

 

[Theuser789]

Yeah, the regen comes from using your own Chaos Energy to regenerate.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Yeah, the regen comes from using your own Chaos Energy to regenerate.

Honestly, for me it seems like healing fits better for it, but I guess that is just our different interepetations.

Neutral atm, I'll come back to this and reconsider my position after reading over things again.

The scans do seem quite suspicious if I do say so myself, but I'll wait until what the supporters has to say on their part.

Would love to have your input and votes now, since It seems like most of the debate has come to a end and no other admin seems to be coming.

 

[Propellus]

Could I get a brief summary of your sides of the arguments?

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Could I get a brief summary of your sides of the arguments?

*The current justification and evdience is lacking
*Chaos energy is a outside factor that can be used to help heal users, making it healing instead of regeneration
*Chaos energy has no clear feat of being Low godly, only vague feats and statements that leaves it up to interpetetion. And those small statements it has it paired with another ""power"" willpower in this case, and is a one time thing So it may just be a user thing instead of a general ability.
*The healing is by no means a general ability all users can do (at least not on this level
*Let's not forget the 3rd scan was actually cropped, making me more suspisous.

Conclusion, Either removed entirely or becomes "possibly healing either low godly or lower.

I tried to summerise them as best as I could, but I have never been that great at explaning.

 

[Theuser789]

Regeneration wasn't meant to say a Base like Mogul could fully utilize the ability. It is for the Super Forms.



First, regenerating from your essence isn't a foreign concept to the comic. Bringing it up here to get the "there is no way the writer meant it" argument out of the way.

Vs debating in itself is interpretation of works of fiction. Every calculated stat on the wiki is an interpretation of the fiction work. Writers don't tend to say; "My character is strong" or if they do, they might say; "My character from my series can beat up Superman." (Invincible comics) They can state that but its not true. For most things, we look at what the story is telling us through their actions.

While the fictional work doesn't state regeneration, healing, or restoration, it can be interpret for vs debating purposes. "The Master Emerald is using Mammoth Mogul's life essence as fuel." (action) "Mogul is freed and is shown on screen he had no form but then began to regain form." (action) Then, Mogul states "Without more energy, I would have disappeared into the immaterial." (alternative action) Ergo, Mammoth Mogul did not have a physical form while trapped in the Emerald and did not enough chaos energy to regain complete physical form.

(Needed a Super Form to fully regain his form from life essence)

Yes, Mammoth Mogul needed more outside energy to maintain his regeneration. But his initial reformation of his form was through his imbedded Chaos Emerald that allowed him to even move around and collect Power Rings (additional chaos energy).



Healing is an activated ability, not a passive ability like regeneration. As shown below with Knuckles, the energy doesn't need thought to restore their form.

What matter for Regeneration isn't a base character like Mammoth Mogul to used a Super Form to regain physical form. What matters is the sleeping Super Form passively has and is giving the energy to fully regenerate Mogul's body from his life essence.

In context, Mammoth Mogul merged with a Chaos Emerald to his very soul essence when becoming immortal.
Base-cast-scales-to-emerald-empowered-mogul.imgur



Knuckles the Echidna (Archie Pre-Super Genesis Wave), is a living Chaos Emerald by birth. His body innately is Chaos Energy and that energy passively regenerates from him of damage. No skill involved.

If contained with enough energy, Knuckles's damage is regained to his physical form without him doing anything. If contained with enough energy, Mogul can regain part of his form from his essence but the power of a Super Form can restore fully him.

To complicate things further, these two scenes follow after each other immediately, in the same issue.

Mogul disappears back into his essence form, literally 5 pages later, we see him ordering a cab to begin his next plot, with no further problems about maintaining his physical form. These two scenes as how they are connected together are never explained in any way, shape or form later on.


That page is a bit flawed. Part of it does do with skill but also the amount Chaos Energy.

Some Chaos abilities are determined by the amount of Chaos Energy (See mostly Knuckles the Echidna and Sonic the Hedgehog)
and others are by skill with whatever amount of Chaos Energy they have on hand (Mad Scientists and Wizards)

There is just a lot to still sort and the comic itself doesn't make that easy.

References
Sonic the Hedgehog issue #59
Knuckles the Echidna issue #11
Sonic the Hedgehog issue #114

Here is Elixir's explanation.

 

[y3p_owo]

I found this scan saying that Mammoth's very life essence was linked to the Master Emerald:

Would this help with Low-Godly regen?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That was shared already.

My position is that the feat itself is fairly vague in what it entails and that other interpretations exist with approximately as many assumptions made that do not land at Low-Godly regen. This is furthered by the fact that other characters this ability aims to be applied to do not show anywhere near a Low-Godly regeneration feat (albeit they do show a small level of regeneration). For Propellus, that's where I'm at right now.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Neutral, but leaning towards that possibly Low Godly should be kept at minimum given the scan Maverick revealed. It does mention being reduced to an "Immaterial" state before the regeneration.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Neutral, but leaning towards that possibly Low 2-C should be kept at minimum given the scan Maverick revealed. It does mention being reduced to an "Immaterial" state before the regeneration.

Ehm, Sorry but I am pretty sure this is the wrong thread for this message....


Edit- I am extremely confused about this one, first of there is now tier for this thread.... Second Maverick didn't post any proff or reavled any scans. Third, Excuse me but did you acidently mix 2 answers together?

I am extremely sorry if it sounds rude but I am geniuly confused.


But II would love it if you could read bambu's response just above yours, they are the same as mine, just much better explained.

 

[y3p_owo]

That was shared already.

My position is that the feat itself is fairly vague in what it entails and that other interpretations exist with approximately as many assumptions made that do not land at Low-Godly regen. This is furthered by the fact that other characters this ability aims to be applied to do not show anywhere near a Low-Godly regeneration feat (albeit they do show a small level of regeneration). For Propellus, that's where I'm at right now.

Ah, my bad.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Ehm, Sorry but I am pretty sure this is the wrong thread for this message....

Typing error, meant to say "Low Godly" not "Low 2-C"

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Typing error, meant to say "Low Godly" not "Low 2-C"

Alright, added to the votes, But I have to question, Have you read mine or Bambu's arguments why it should be removed? There should be a short summery on both our thoughts slightly above your comment. (Just wanted to double check since you posted your messages around the same time)

Either way, thank you for the vote, and I wish you a continued great day.

 

[Theuser789]

I think just because other interpretations exist, doesn't mean the current one is wrong. Still waiting for arguments for that outside of it being healing instead.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I think just because other interpretations exist, doesn't mean the current one is wrong. Still waiting for arguments for that outside of it being healing instead.

This is why I stand on "possibly Low-Godly" being a basically fine rating, yeah.

 

[ElixirBlue]

What keeps it from being a "likely" rating?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Just level of reliability, I suppose. I don't think it matters either way (mechanically, for our site, the two are equal; they allow a user to use or not use a given ability for a versus thread, since the character in question may or may not have it).

 

[Theuser789]

I still think it should be a straight up rating, but this is something that can't be argued, I guess. Just have to wait for more opinions.

 

[Robo432343]

bump

 

[Robo432343]

bump

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

bump

 

[Robo432343]

bump

 

[Robo432343]

BUMP

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Bump?

 

[Robo432343]

RAAAAH BUMP

 

[Robo432343]

bump

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Bump, link to a good summary of my reason for its removal by Bambu.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I was asked to ping neutrals, although two of them were "leaning" so I will leave them out. @ActuallySpaceMan42 if you would be so kind, this thread has been dead for some time. Should you disagree with the OP, I can gather more; otherwise, this thread may conclude.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I agree, too vague.

 

[Theuser789]

So we're changing it to "possibly" low godly, then?